Feel stupid ALL the time.

[CaptKirk]

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Just venting. I am so tired, like all the time. I seriously have zero energy at this point during third year. I can barely make myself wake up and haul @ $ $ into the hospital. I feel stupid ALL the time. No matter how many patients I see, I always forget to ask something. No matter how many times I'm pimped in a group, I never have the answer first. I am just sick of this whole process. If there was a way out that didn't involve swallowing hundreds of thousands of dollars and humiliating myself, I would probably quit this crap tomorrow. I'm just... done. I'm spent. I hate ob/gyn, I've pretty much disliked every clerkship. It's not which one I like, it's which one I've disliked the least. Something is wrong with that. I just suck at writing notes, talking to patients, and all that. I actually liked the first two years better. I am like on edge ALL the time. I feel like my life span has shrunk by years over the amount of stress I've had this year in terms of expectations, never knowing what people/residents/attendings want, being chronically sleep deprived, knowing that no matter how much I study it's never, ever ever ever enough. I can't honestly ever picture myself as a competent, happy, physician. Sorry all, I'm just venting. I'm at a really bad point right now.

 

[nykka3]

np. this is the place to vent. 3rd year is tough...esp. trying to decide what to career path to take based on limited and at times malignant experiences of 3rd year.

 

[dynx]

Just venting. I am so tired, like all the time. I seriously have zero energy at this point during third year. I can barely make myself wake up and haul @ $ $ into the hospital. I feel stupid ALL the time. No matter how many patients I see, I always forget to ask something. No matter how many times I'm pimped in a group, I never have the answer first. I am just sick of this whole process. If there was a way out that didn't involve swallowing hundreds of thousands of dollars and humiliating myself, I would probably quit this crap tomorrow. I'm just... done. I'm spent. I hate ob/gyn, I've pretty much disliked every clerkship. It's not which one I like, it's which one I've disliked the least. Something is wrong with that. I just suck at writing notes, talking to patients, and all that. I actually liked the first two years better. I am like on edge ALL the time. I feel like my life span has shrunk by years over the amount of stress I've had this year in terms of expectations, never knowing what people/residents/attendings want, being chronically sleep deprived, knowing that no matter how much I study it's never, ever ever ever enough. I can't honestly ever picture myself as a competent, happy, physician. Sorry all, I'm just venting. I'm at a really bad point right now.

If you can set it up, put off a rotation till fourth year and do a rotation through pathology. You sound like a path kind of guy (I tend to jump to conclusions but amazingly enough Im always right), its a light schedule so you can rest up and if you like it you'll have a light at the end of the tunnel. Worth a try, especially if you're at the end of your rope as is. Good luck.

 

[dpmd]

Maybe radiology would work too. Easy schedule so you can catch a breath, and no patient contact (unless you do interventional). Also, you should consider speaking with a mental health professional. Some of the things you said are the typical gripes of a med student, but maybe there is an element of depression that can be addressed. That would probably be easier to deal with than deciding you have truly chosen the wrong path in life. Good luck.

 

[colbgw02]

You sound like a path kind of guy (I tend to jump to conclusions but amazingly enough Im always right)

took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Cat48100]

Just venting. I am so tired, like all the time. I seriously have zero energy at this point during third year. I can barely make myself wake up and haul @ $ $ into the hospital. I feel stupid ALL the time. No matter how many patients I see, I always forget to ask something. No matter how many times I'm pimped in a group, I never have the answer first. I am just sick of this whole process. If there was a way out that didn't involve swallowing hundreds of thousands of dollars and humiliating myself, I would probably quit this crap tomorrow. I'm just... done. I'm spent. I hate ob/gyn, I've pretty much disliked every clerkship. It's not which one I like, it's which one I've disliked the least. Something is wrong with that. I just suck at writing notes, talking to patients, and all that. I actually liked the first two years better. I am like on edge ALL the time. I feel like my life span has shrunk by years over the amount of stress I've had this year in terms of expectations, never knowing what people/residents/attendings want, being chronically sleep deprived, knowing that no matter how much I study it's never, ever ever ever enough. I can't honestly ever picture myself as a competent, happy, physician. Sorry all, I'm just venting. I'm at a really bad point right now.

Well, I haven't even hit Medical School yet so I don't know what kind of help I can be but what about anesthesiology? That or become a research physician. You can always get a scholarship of some type some where. The NIH I read gives you a stipend if you do research for them.

Could the problem be just your outlook instead of the actual clerkship itself? For me personally, when I go into something as challanging as what you are going through, I usually have to mentally prepare myself or else I will set myself up for exactly what you are experiencing right now.

Just remember, you say you "sucked" but that is why you are in medical school. To learn from your mistakes and to learn how you can be a better physician. You are only in your 3rd year, you still have a whole other year and a half before they put you out into residency. That is a long time for you to become proficient in your doctoring skills. Just because you feel like you wont be a good doctor now, doesn't mean that will be the case later. Remember, your medical school picked you out of all those applicants to become a doctor for a reason. They saw something in you that they felt would contribute to the medical community.

As far as attendings go, I work at a medical center and I just find that some Attendings/residents have an air about them that makes them intimidating. Nothing you ever do will ever be good enough, it seems. Thats just the way they are and the way they always will be. For me personally, once I accepted that, I was always much more at ease when it came to a time when I actually had to approach them.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

If you can set it up, put off a rotation till fourth year and do a rotation through pathology. You sound like a path kind of guy (I tend to jump to conclusions but amazingly enough Im always right), its a light schedule so you can rest up and if you like it you'll have a light at the end of the tunnel. Worth a try, especially if you're at the end of your rope as is. Good luck.

That's exactly what I was going to say.


BTW Cat if you're not even a med student yet, then don't comment when s/he's asking for med student advice

 

[excalibur]

Well, I haven't even hit Medical School yet so I don't know what kind of help I can be but what about anesthesiology?QUOTE]

Well that's what I was about to say. I am a med student so I guess "it's OK" if I give advice. The OP sounds like someone who would be happier in one of those specialties that I consider "outside the box". Specialties like anesthesiology, pathology, radiology, dermatology, EM. If you hated everything you've done right now, and you don't foresee you're going to like anything else in your third year, start looking at these. Of course with rads and derm you need good to great board scores, so don't waste your time with those two if your Step I is not above the national avg.

BTW, I was just like you. I disliked the my first four specialties in varying degrees, and that's when I was thinking either pathology or anesthesiology. I chose the latter, and I found that many anesthesiology residents had a journey through 3rd year rotations similar to mine. Good luck!!

 

[Pinner Doc]

That's exactly what I was going to say.


BTW Cat if you're not even a med student yet, then don't comment when s/he's asking for med student advice

The OP was only venting... not soliciting advice. It's a valid thought that Cat doesn't have the experience to speak here, but I thought it was sweet to take the time to post.

 

[CaptKirk]

Thanks for the posts. Actually my doc did dx me with depression at the beginning of last year. I tried paroxetine but it didn't really help and I was having some side fx which, whether psychogenic or not, were eliminated when I stopped taking it. In any case it's pretty mild because I've dealt with it and stayed productive, for the most part. No functional issues/suicidal ideations and all that crap. Besides, the depression seems to abate over breaks/rotations where the environment isn't so, well, bitchy.

Anyhoo, I have been looking into Rads and Anesthesiology, will probably go for one or both of them. There's aspects to each I really like... seems like Anesthesia would be more hands-on and procedure oriented in less time than interventional rads. Plus, learning the ins and outs of perioperative medicine and being in a position to learn a lot of critical care management would be fun, I think. Radiology would appeal to my personality as someone who is quiet and likes to think things through. As always, these things are getting more competitive and difficult. My Step I is alright (>230, <240) but I have only honored one course, and our clerkships are all honors/pass/fail, where honors requires 90% on the shelf and outstanding evals. Needless to say I've not honored anything this year. Shelf exams not terrible, raw scores in 70's and 80's. Unfortunately multiple choice tests do not a doctor make, you know? I've learned to not perform miserably on standardized tests but that doesn't mean much to me. I see lots of my classmates with lower board scores/shelf scores who I think will make amazing physicians. At this point it seems like my highest hope is to be competent.

Anyway, I digress. Comiseration is a powerful therapeutic. Thanks for the posts. Third year sucks. Here's to fourth year. *opens a beer*

 

[Gem134]

I feel stupid and mad, during third year. I am currently doing an outpatient rotation where I am siting and reading uptodate all day. I see maybe one or two patients on my own, and the doc never takes me into the room for other patients. I have asked over and over for more to do, feedback, etc. But the doc tells me to go and read.

And then I remember I am actually paying for this. How am I supposed to learn from a computer when I am actually sitting in a clinic surrounded by real, live patients all day? Right now, I don't really like medicine at all. 😡 I can ID with the OP.

 

[enanareina]

Sometimes, I wonder why I went into medicine. I'm on IM right now, and I hate it. One thing that is frustrating is constantly switching attendings, so the expectations constantly change. I feel like I never know what I'm supposed to do.

 

[MossPoh]

You are also in the crappy part of the year where it still gets dark relatively early and depending on location it is frickin cold. Those factors never really help morale. Getting in when it is dark, and leaving while it is dark while shivering in between and just being emotionally exhausted take a real toll on you....everyone regardless of educational level can relate to that crap feeling...you are just on the extreme end of it due to circumstances...which seems reasonable even to people who haven't been through it. I'll leave it to the others that have suffered to give advice...but good luck.

 

[Zuwie]

You know, the best thing about third year is that you feel great relief when it's over. Fourth year is much much better, even with the whole application, interview and ranking stuff. I am going into pathology btw, and I believe that residency, however hard, will still be better than the third year of med school.

 

[Adcadet]

I'm a fourth year on a required rotation right now. At my school we can take typical 3rd year rotations almost whenever we want. I still feel like a ***** with some regularity on this rotation, but I'm just more used to it now. That, and I generally don't care.

Adcadet: What's that, you say a patient is scheduled for a TVTHBP? <what the F is a TVTBPD?> Awesome, I'd love to see yet another one <I probably shouldn't have said "yet another" . . . I should throw in some detail or question to make it seem like I have a clue>. I'm curious to see your surgical approach <I hope this TBTHVP thing has an "approach">.

Attending: great, it should be . . . <an unknown length of time lapses> . . . so it will be interesting.

Adcadet: <I wonder how long I was just staring at the wall...no drool on my chin, so it's probably OK> Yeah, but I probably won't be able to drag myself out of bed that early, so I'll likely just miss the case . . . <thinks: was that out lound?> . . . ha ha ha <yeah, just act like it was a big joke and you'll obviously be there> ha ha

Attending: <I think this dude is joking but it's hard to tell, he doesn't even seem to put any effort into faking interest anymore> ha ha ha.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

I'm a fourth year on a required rotation right now. At my school we can take typical 3rd year rotations almost whenever we want. I still feel like a ***** with some regularity on this rotation, but I'm just more used to it now. That, and I generally don't care.

Adcadet: What's that, you say a patient is scheduled for a TVTHBP? <what the F is a TVTBPD?> Awesome, I'd love to see yet another one <I probably shouldn't have said "yet another" . . . I should throw in some detail or question to make it seem like I have a clue>. I'm curious to see your surgical approach <I hope this TBTHVP thing has an "approach">.

Attending: great, it should be . . . <an unknown length of time lapses> . . . so it will be interesting.

Adcadet: <I wonder how long I was just staring at the wall...no drool on my chin, so it's probably OK> Yeah, but I probably won't be able to drag myself out of bed that early, so I'll likely just miss the case . . . <thinks: was that out lound?> . . . ha ha ha <yeah, just act like it was a big joke and you'll obviously be there> ha ha

Attending: <I think this dude is joking but it's hard to tell, he doesn't even seem to put any effort into faking interest anymore> ha ha ha.

Well played sir.

 

[abc56]

i feel like 3rd year isnt all its cracked up to be. nobody ever warns you of the feelings of inadequacy, humiliation, anxiety, stress, or burnout that you will inevitably feel at one point during 3rd year!!

think about it, you are paying thousands of dollars (where does the money go during our clinical rotations) to go to a "job" everyday where you dont get paid. you are constantly being evaluated. everything you do/say matters, at least you think so. you are always on your toes, someone is always watching (or at least it feels that way). if a resident doesnt like you, well, you cant just let it roll off your back, because they are GRADING you!!

i think after a while, this is enough to put anyone over the edge. i have not talked to one person in my class that isnt sick of it. i think being a 3rd year is rough. housestaff sometimes treat you like crap, just because they can. it must be some sort of power trip.

wait till youre an attending or even a resident. i doubt anyone will feel like they can treat you like crap, and i also doubt that you will feel the same amount of depression/anxiety that you do now because you are no longer being evaluated, you can just be yourself and shine.

good luck 🙂

ps i am likely doing emergency medicine, which is interesting, someone on tihs post referred to it as an "outside teh box" profession for people who get annoyed during 3rd year....

 

[i61164]

Man you guys are scaring me. During my first two years I have already felt a lot of inadequacy and humiliation. Is it gonna get worse? I've heard people say third year is better than the first two (maybe it's more fun?). I mean, I expect OB to be 6 weeks of torture, surgery will def. be painful, ... hmmm now that I think about it I see what you mean.

 

[excalibur]

ps i am likely doing emergency medicine, which is interesting, someone on tihs post referred to it as an "outside teh box" profession for people who get annoyed during 3rd year....

Yeah, that was me.

Plus, I always warn pre-med students that there is no way of knowing what med school is like until you get there. That is why it's so difficult for people to determine whether they're going to be prepared for the rigors of med school at 22 and graduating college, b/c it is very difficult to get perspective until you go through it. Many times on my rotations I felt like a child who was a nuisance and told to just sit in the corner and be quiet. I'm a 27 year old man!! Either that or the power trip scencario you mentioned, where attendings use their power to toy with your limited mental knowledge and make you sweat in front of your peers. Granted, this was not all the time, but it was definitely enough to leave you frustated, anxious, depressed, humiliated, etc. I just keep telling myself that one day...one day...it will be worth it. Honestly, though, that day is not until probably after residency, so that day maybe...maybe...is five years away for me. Anyway....

 

[Flobber]

Man you guys are scaring me. During my first two years I have already felt a lot of inadequacy and humiliation. Is it gonna get worse? I've heard people say third year is better than the first two (maybe it's more fun?). I mean, I expect OB to be 6 weeks of torture, surgery will def. be painful, ... hmmm now that I think about it I see what you mean.

Don't let anyone ever tell you that third year is better than ANYTHING. It's just not. It's not better than first year, certainly not better than second, and doesn't hold a candle to fourth year. I once had someone tell me that my worst day of third year will still be better than my best day in the first two. If I could find that person, I would slap the $hit out of them and ask them what kind of messed up days they were having in their first two years of med school. Because I seem to remember sleeping in, doing whatever the hell I wanted, and I distinctly recall still having some sense of pride and dignity.

Ah, reminiscence.

 

[dpmd]

I think the people that talk about how good third year is, are those who enjoy the clinical stuff enough that they don't mind the feeling of not knowing what to do (or the ones who are lucky enough to have had clinical experience and don't feel lost). I think that many med students are used to being the smart ones, then it starts getting whittled away until you start third year and you are constantly around people that know more than you. It can be difficult to handle, and to get perspective on the situation. You just have to figure out how to make it through. One of the best things I did (but might not work for anyone else) was to alter my expectations. If I went into a rotation expecting to get out at 10pm and have to take a bunch of call with no sleep, every time I went home earlier than that was a treat (and every time I slept on call felt like heaven). Then again, I didn't have to deal with people trying to humiliate me. Maybe creative visualization of those people getting run over by trucks would help.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Actually my doc did dx me with depression at the beginning of last year. I tried paroxetine but it didn't really help and I was having some side fx which, whether psychogenic or not, were eliminated when I stopped taking it.

It might be worth it trying another SSRI -- as I'm sure you know, different ones do the trick for different people. In any case, very sorry to hear how much it sucks for you right now. It probably doesn't help, but you're definitely NOT alone. Some days I just feel beat up by med school. I hope it gets better for you CK.

 

[Sancho]

i went into 3rd year with thoughts of radiology and thinking this year would be the worst of my life but hoping it would offer one measly speck of enjoyment-
so far its absolutely the worst experience😴 😕
but i also feel farther from losing my mind or soul over it than classmates who thought "ooh boy! this is where i finally get to be a doctor and see patients! hoo ha fun times!!"
just like hooked on phonics,
low expectations worked for me
S

 

[Hard24Get]

Boy, I miss having other students around. I'm doing electives now and so far have been the only med student on the team = automatically the dumbest! 🙁

I feel like med students live a double life - prestige and perceived intellect in the outside world, peon jester in the hospital.

Great to discuss this on an anonymous forum, without the fear of being perceived as dumb by your colleagues who may not have the same experiences.

 

[abc56]

i think everyone feels this way to some extent. and i also got told that the worst day of 3rd year is better than your best days of 1+2. SUCH A LIE!! 3rd year is when you can really get shot down in terms of self confidence, especially if you look dumb in front of your peers

the novelty of "seeing patients and acting like a doctor" wears off- for me it wore off like, 2 months into 3rd year, when i realized that i was still just a med student and patients didnt really take me as seriously as the doctors (for example, you go preround and they tell you that everythings fine. then when you round with the attending the patient tells them about the chest pain, diaphoresis and shortness of breath theyve been experiencing)

ok, i know this sounds like a very pessimistic post but i need to say- the only way to deal with this is to not be so hard on yourself and take 3rd year with a grain of salt. you have to expect to make mistakes and not know everything and always remember YOU ARE THERE TO LEARN- not to be the intern.

the key is to not take it all so seriously. i feel like some people just get sooo consumed by 3rd year (including me sometimes). its a surefire way to get yourself miserable. just have fun and enjoy and focus on learning, not on being perfect

good luck to ya
😀

 

[kcumbDO]

Third year sucks, I agree with everything that has been said. I think the best time is 4th year, but ultimately I think that residency, although very difficult, is much more rewarding than any of the years of med school. You have been an academic slave for the past 4 years with no pay or recognition but residency finally represents a time when you have a real job with a real career goal.

 

[fang]

I think 3rd year is a time of extremes-- sometimes it's great because you're actually involved in pt care (albeit in a very limited way), and sometimes you feel like a stupid piece of crap who can't even manage to remember the guidelines for cholesterol management during rounds even though you JUST read about it 2 days ago. To everyone who feels that way, just remember time will not stop and you'll be a 4th year in about 3 more rotations. During 4th year, you still have to work but you no longer feel like someone's watching and evaluating you 24/7, and you can ask stupid questions without jeapordizing your grade. It's like opiods and pain-- technically you still feel stupid, but you just don't care.

Anyway, my favorite 3rd year fallacy is when students inflate their level of responsibility. "Oh yeah, during surgery my pt coded in the elevator so we had to start chest compressions and trach her". Actual story: "During surgery my patient coded in the elevator so I stood in the corner and watched while the residents and nurses did everything".

 

[CaptKirk]

Anyway, my favorite 3rd year fallacy is when students inflate their level of responsibility. "Oh yeah, during surgery my pt coded in the elevator so we had to start chest compressions and trach her". Actual story: "During surgery my patient coded in the elevator so I stood in the corner and watched while the residents and nurses did everything".

You said it brutha.

 

[drdidi]

The best advice I've gotten for surviving third year is this: just be yourself. Honestly, you're going to make mistakes, look "stupid," etc, but I just try to remember that most of the residents and attendings I've met so far are impressed if I ever happen to know anything. Most attendings don't expect you to know the answers to the questions they are asking. The reason they're asking them is to teach you, not to test how "smart" you are! Work hard, work well with your team, and try to have a good attitude. That is the best you can do. They aren't going to remember that you didn't remember the names of all the MAOI antidepressants, but they will remember how smoothly things ran on the unit.

 

[koma]

You have been an academic slave for the past 4 years with no pay or recognition but residency finally represents a time when you have a real job with a real career goal.

I dont know about that...I pretty much hear the same exact sentiments from residents...except they are looking forward to attendingdoom.

 

[chagall]

Thank you for this thread. The first post pretty much sums up how I feel, except probably worse since I've already had bad depression before. I have zero self confidence, which my attending has already pointed out to me (in a nice way, in private, but still), but I can't seem to remember much of anything of medicine and pretty much every answer and every assessment of mine seems to be wrong or at least incomplete...so how am I supposed to be confident of that?! Ugh...you don't even want to know my mental state at this point. 🙁

Now that a few people mention it, I did do a pathology rotation pretty early on...I do remember being suprisingly decent at it, and having it come pretty easily to me...but I honestly thought at the time that I missed seeing patients. And that really wasn't what I imagined myself going into medicine for, to spend time in a path lab...

 

[Gem134]

Hey Chagall,

I was seriously looking at the option of just dropping out over christmas. Just walking away; too much negativity and I just felt caught in a downward spiral of losing confidence -> being criticised for not being confident - losing confidence - being commented on that I was "not confident," and on and on.

Normally I feel pretty comfident, but I had a few rough rotations where I was sort of the butt of the team - the 'dumb student' and I found it hard to break that dynamic once it had started.

Anyway, over christmas I gave myself permission to drop out if I wanted. I also tried to figure out why was I here? and I talked to alot of supportive people about the process. Anyway I decided what the h$ll? I have nothing to lose anymore, and I started with a new, and maybe more pissed off attitude. Only, my anger is about the process. But now I always smile, am super friendly and generally try and be the best happy actress I can be.

I figured, the only way out is through and so I do what I have to do, plus more. I read, and I am way more aggressive presenting on rounds, asking questions or whatever. Seems to be working a little better. The system is bullsh%t, and it's not worth losing our self-esteem or confidence about. At least, I keep telling myself this.