Feeling a bit discouraged

[Tyrone.]

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So, I was talking with a friend who is just finished their first year of PA school at Duke. Great guy. He was giving me advice when I was still on the PA track. He asked me how things had been going and I gave him the run down: A's and B's this semester, got my EMT cert, etc. I told him that I had used my school gpa calculator after making my class spreadsheets, and the best GPA I could hope for from a flogged semester is a 3.5. I guess I was hoping for some kind of encouragement but he said "let's face it, you're white, a 3.5 GPA... you might want to look at Caribbean schools.. and this is coming for an SMTP with a 3.91 GPA who got denied to multiple PA programs." Now, I still have 2 years to go of school, and I could gain a lot of volunteer hours and what not, and I am applying to in-state schools (UNC and ECU) when the time comes, as well as some DO, but I honestly didn't feel like my chances were that slim with a 3.5, since GPA is only part of the application. Was he being too harsh or am I just being delusional? I'll be 30 by the time I apply, by the way.

 

[Moose A Moose]

You two sound like peas in a pod.

 

[Luka75]

So, I was talking with a friend who is just finished their first year of PA school at Duke. Great guy. He was giving me advice when I was still on the PA track. He asked me how things had been going and I gave him the run down: A's and B's this semester, got my EMT cert, etc. I told him that I had used my school gpa calculator after making my class spreadsheets, and the best GPA I could hope for from a flogged semester is a 3.5. I guess I was hoping for some kind of encouragement but he said "let's face it, you're white, a 3.5 GPA... you might want to look at Caribbean schools.. and this is coming for an SMTP with a 3.91 GPA who got denied to multiple PA programs." Now, I still have 2 years to go of school, and I could gain a lot of volunteer hours and what not, and I am applying to in-state schools (UNC and ECU) when the time comes, as well as some DO, but I honestly didn't feel like my chances were that slim with a 3.5, since GPA is only part of the application. Was he being too harsh or am I just being delusional? I'll be 30 by the time I apply, by the way.

Dude has No idea what he's talking about...

 

[SuaveCardigans]

You can absolutely be competitive for MD, but it will be difficult.
You can also be competitive for DO, which should be somewhat easier.
Do not go to the Caribbean. The fact your friend suggested that indicates he probably doesn't know much about applying to medical school.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Seems a bit harsh, at least from not knowing anything else. MCAT score? What have you been doing in/out of school now that you're in your late 20s? Extracirriculars? 3.5 may be low for some programs, but it is average at many others/most, especially while including DO programs on top of MD programs. 3.5 is fine if you get a great MCAT for instance, and there may be some weight in your ECs.

 

[dingdong28]

There are students in far worse scenarios (like myself) that have been accepted to medical school. I haven't made it yet but I'll have far worse stats than yours and I'm still going to apply.
It sounds like he's being too harsh. Keep up with your academics, ECs, have a nice written PS, and kill the MCAT.
Maybe he's just jelly because you're trying for medical school and he didn't?
#haterzgonnahate

 

[bbbcccppp]

Take a look at MSAR. You can see what MCAT it would take to be in play.


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[Tyrone.]

You two sound like peas in a pod.

Not sure what you meant by that so please feel free to elaborate.

 

[aformerstudent]

You can absolutely be competitive for MD, but it will be difficult.
You can also be competitive for DO, which should be somewhat easier.
Do not go to the Caribbean. The fact your friend suggested that indicates he probably doesn't know much about applying to medical school.

This person could most certainly go to the Caribbean but I don't think this particular person would make it with that attitude.

 

[bbbcccppp]

I don't think 35 is average at the lowest ranked MD. BUT look at amcas and msar. Crazy high mcat is mitigating


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[Tyrone.]

I appreciate it, everyone. I know it's not an amazing GPA, but I was planning on doing everything possible to kill the MCAT to balance out, hopefully. And as far as ECs and such: I have applied for the Chief of Staff position in my school's AMSA chapter, and I have my emt cert, which I have used but not currently working as I'm focusing on school full-time. I haven't done any volunteering yet, but I have 2 years, and I also am in talks with one of my lab professors about doing some clinical research. So, we'll see how all of that goes. I felt that my in-state schools would atleast give me a run, especially ECU since they only take in-state applicants. I will be doing everything possible, though.

 

[HarryPotterLostInNarnia]

You've got 2 more years in school, do your best to raise that GPA and prove him wrong

 

[Tyrone.]

You've got 2 more years in school, do your best to raise that GPA and prove him wrong

Thanks. I had only calculated the cum GPA, at 3.5.. my BCPM GPA would be a 3.4. Still staying positive, though!

 

[bbbcccppp]

Trend matters. If you were 3.0 yr1
Then become solid 4.0 it will be noticed


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[Tyrone.]

Trend matters. If you were 3.0 yr1
Then become solid 4.0 it will be noticed


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I had all As and Bs at my CC, transferred in to my uni, my first semester my dad died unexpectedly and i got to withdraw with extenuating circumstances. The next semester I became really ill but finished the semester with all Bs. The next semester (fall '16) I was still very ill and pushed myself too hard, and it backfired. F in calc 3, F in engineering physics, C in macroeconomics, and a W in Chem. Last semester I took my EMT class and got certified, Got A's in my intro bio and chem class, and a C in spanish. I plan to do even better. Not proud of the C in spanish but I made my emt training and science courses priority when it came to studying.. plus I was in a toxic relationship, so that's my own doing, but out of that now, and this is my only focus.

 

[Medic741]

You've got nothing to worry about. I applied w 3.5 GPA // not a stellar MCAT and had 3 accepts this cycle (1 MD, 2 DO). If I had known about SDN earlier would Have built a better MD list.

Invest in the MSAR, make a carefully curated list & you've got no worries. The Carib is *not* in your future 🙂

Do what you can to find your niche and be really interesting so you have 'something' that makes you stand out come interviews/ADCOM reviewing your app.

Keep up the good work!

And I'd keep an open mind about DO -- the top schools are great, below the top schools... it *definitely* gets questionable fast. But that's a long way off & you're setting yourself up for success!

 

[Tyrone.]

Thank you so much! Great way to lift my spirits! I really appreciate it! I've already invested in MSAR and I am researching it and doing everything I can to prepare! 🙂 Which DO schools would it make me competitive for, and which should, or at which point on the list should I shy away?

 

[Medic741]

Thank you so much! Great way to lift my spirits! I really appreciate it! I've already invested in MSAR and I am researching it and doing everything I can to prepare! 🙂 Which DO schools would it make me competitive for, and which should, or at which point on the list should I shy away?

So the place where *some* (most, sadly) DO schools lag is in clinical training because many don't have directly affiliated hospitals. There are a few DO programs that are very strong because they offer a good 2 years of didactic learning and have strong hospital partnerships.

This is by no means an exhaustive list -- this is just where I researched d/t location + other factors

Strong programs:
-Michigan state DO (MSUCOM)
-DMU <accepted GPA 3.6, MCAT 506> (one of the first 5 DO programs + 100% match for past 2 years, not primary care focused. Partnership w/ WHO for 3/4th year internship, ultrasound education starting in first year, the most amazing sim labs you'll ever see)
-KCU (at the Kansas City campus can do first clinical year all in Kansas City which is nice)
-PCOM
-NYIT
-Marian (liked the strong clinical partnerships in Indy, can do all 4 years in the city if you so chose)

The DO programs above have high stats competitive w mid tier MD programs (MCAT a little lower sure, but you'll have very smart classmates) & you have a shot at all of them.

IMO avoid LECOM schools -- they seem to do the bare minimum education wise & their new campuses struggle w rotations. Don't want to go into detail here, but do your own research

 

[bannie22]

I think 3.5 will be very difficult. I would consider Carribean as a backup over DO though.

 

[libertyyne]

You are more than likely not going to Harvard or T10. Maintaining a high GPA and a good trend will be helpful for you. A great MCAT score will go a long way. Your state schools and DO schools should be accessible if everything else is in order. Buy an msar.

 

[aformerstudent]

When you get your MCAT back, that's when you decide where you want to go and what you want to do.

MCAT has more weight than the GPA. Anybody want to argue that, just bring it.

 

[Tyrone.]

I seriously appreciate all of the encouragement! My in-state schools are my priority, and then DO programs, and mid to lower tier MD.


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[SterlingMaloryArcher]

You're fine. Sounds like he's just jealous that you're gonna be an MD and him a PA and he got rejected with a 3.91 probably because he had an overall crappy application. Really, think about it, you have a 3.91 with multiple PA rejections and someone tells you they have a 3.5 (which is decent) and wants to set out on a "superior" career. Jealous friends are the worst, and disguise their malicious intent as "advice." He's in no position to advise you anymore, and I think he knows that, and maybe feels a little smaller because of it.

 

[21Rush12]

I think 3.5 will be very difficult. I would consider Carribean as a backup over DO though.

Any reason for this?


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[Tyrone.]

You're fine. Sounds like he's just jealous that you're gonna be an MD and him a PA and he got rejected with a 3.91 probably because he had an overall crappy application. Really, think about it, you have a 3.91 with multiple PA rejections and someone tells you they have a 3.5 (which is decent) and wants to set out on a "superior" career. Jealous friends are the worst, and disguise their malicious intent as "advice." He's in no position to advise you anymore, and I think he knows that, and maybe feels a little smaller because of it.

I didn't think of it that way, but that's a good point. He said stuff like "don't be too hard on yourself if you don't get in. You're dealing with 4.0 GPAs and 35+ MCATS or w/e it is these days." I know that those people exist with amazing MCAT scores and perfect or nearly perfect GPAs and will seem like a brightly polished penny going into it, but that's not my competition. They're guaranteed if they're sound in the other areas of their app. I see my competition as the people with the same ranges as me. I have to show why I deserve the seat and not them, so I think he got hung up on the GPA, and so do I. I know it's very important, but I have to remind myself to take this at a holistic approach like the schools will, and try to be as polished in every other aspect as possible. I really appreciate the kind words and assurance on that. You may be right. I still think he's a good guy, but hearing him say that kind of gave me more motivation to be like "watch this."

 

[Tyrone.]

Any reason for this?


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Yea, I am not going to apply to any carribean schools. No disrespect, but I am only going to apply to MD and DO programs that are in the states and have a decent shot with good rotations and at a good match when it comes time. But I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[McRibs]

Add him to the list of people you'll send a Christmas card to from the other side of the wall.





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[Tyrone.]

Add him to the list of people you'll send a Christmas card to from the other side of the wall.





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Damn... that was good ha. I feel like I'm too nice hahaha. But maybe I should.. like, all in good fun. "Happy holidays from Dr. Stone's office!" Geez, that would sting. Ha. Or maybe he did it on purpose to light that fire in me. Clever bastard...

 

[Tyrone.]

So, I've been looking at schools on MSAR and it's made me want to ask how many schools should I apply to? I am most certainly applying to my state schools, UNC and ECU, but I will also apply to Wake Forest and Campbell. I've made a list of schools that I feel would be the closest in-reach with my GPA, not knowing any MCAT score yet. It's a really long list. I mean, my DO list alone is like 10 schools, and my MD list is about double that. Is that a lot to apply to, though? 30 some-odd schools? There's got to be some point where the risk of applying to such a number and getting rejected outweighs the benefit of applying to a certain number. Or, in my case, when it comes time... should I apply to these 30 schools?

 

[Toutie]

So, I've been looking at schools on MSAR and it's made me want to ask how many schools should I apply to? I am most certainly applying to my state schools, UNC and ECU, but I will also apply to Wake Forest and Campbell. I've made a list of schools that I feel would be the closest in-reach with my GPA, not knowing any MCAT score yet. It's a really long list. I mean, my DO list alone is like 10 schools, and my MD list is about double that. Is that a lot to apply to, though? 30 some-odd schools? There's got to be some point where the risk of applying to such a number and getting rejected outweighs the benefit of applying to a certain number. Or, in my case, when it comes time... should I apply to these 30 schools?

You can't make a realistic list until you have your MCAT score.

 

[Tyrone.]

You can't make a realistic list until you have your MCAT score.

This is true... but with knowing my best chance GPA, and it not being so stellar, at a 3.5, I'm just trying to get an understanding. This a process that I want to be familiar with before I have to apply. Way before. And having a list gives me a chance to familiarize with the schools, and possibly slim the list down some, to avoid breaking the bank during applying time.

 

[Toutie]

This is true... but with knowing my best chance GPA, and it not being so stellar, at a 3.5, I'm just trying to get an understanding. This a process that I want to be familiar with before I have to apply. Way before. And having a list gives me a chance to familiarize with the schools, and possibly slim the list down some, to avoid breaking the bank during applying time.

Purchase the MSAR and start looking at various schools to see what their MCAT/GPA ranges are.

 

[Tyrone.]

Purchase the MSAR and start looking at various schools to see what their MCAT/GPA ranges are.

I have. That's where I made my list from. I was just curious is my number of 30 schools (hypothetical until MCAT, I know) crazy high.

 

[Toutie]

I have. That's where I made my list from. I was just curious is my number of 30 schools (hypothetical until MCAT, I know) crazy high.

Well 30 isn't crazy high compared to some. 😱 But it probably is un-necessarily high. A well chosen 20 should be sufficient. As long as you have a reasonable idea of where you think you'll fit, then just wait for your MCAT and adjust as needed.

You're not planning on applying this year, are you?

 

[Tyrone.]

Ok. I was figuring between 15 and 20. No, I won't be applying this cycle. I won't even be taking my MCAT until next year.

 

[Medic741]

That's a perfectly reasonable n.

Something you kinda want to get right the first time. The stress of it all is well... a lot. Seems like you're taking the right (thoughtful/aware) approach