Feeling down about my medical school

[deleted1088791]

Currently a first year DO student at an original 5 school.

Lately, I've been feeling somewhat bummed about my school, particularly after the match. The match list isn't bad per se, however it has much less competitive matches when compared to other MD schools in my area. I continue to be frustrated about attending my school. I don't really vibe with OMM.

I ended up applying to a few DO schools during my application cycle due to having multiple IAs. I had great stats (514 3.8+), but I had a feeling that these IA's would hurt my application. I know I should be grateful to even be a medical student, particularly after having multiple IA's, but I can't get over "what could have been", especially because I want to do general surgery/anesthesia. I constantly feel the pressure of out-performing classmates because I know I have an uphill battle to match at these specialties.

Can someone give me some insight about how to navigate these feelings?

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[Goro]

Go visit your school's counseling center. Don't be a self-hating DO.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

As someone also in your position as a first year at an OG-5 DO school wanting to do a surgical field, just remember that you are the single greatest determining factor of your future prospects. The same truth applies if you had gone to a MD school in the area. Will it be an uphill battle? Sure. But it's an uphill battle for MD students wanting surgery as well. Plus look at the brighter side of things-- there are students at less established DO schools that will have an even tougher task ahead for the same future you and I want.

Don't let comparison be a theft of joy. Grind it out, do everything you can to set yourself apart and get into the field you want. I failed to garner a med school acceptance for 4 years despite being a qualified applicant. I'm happy to even have this opportunity and I'm going to make the most of it. You should too.

 

[deleted1088791]

As someone also in your position as a first year at an OG-5 DO school wanting to do a surgical field, just remember that you are the single greatest determining factor of your future prospects. The same truth applies if you had gone to a MD school in the area. Will it be an uphill battle? Sure. But it's an uphill battle for MD students wanting surgery as well. Plus look at the brighter side of things-- there are students at less established DO schools that will have an even tougher task ahead for the same future you and I want.

Don't let comparison be a theft of joy. Grind it out, do everything you can to set yourself apart and get into the field you want. I failed to garner a med school acceptance for 4 years despite being a qualified applicant. I'm happy to even have this opportunity and I'm going to make the most of it. You should too.

Wow, thank you. This was a really helpful and insightful answer, I appreciate it. It's frustrating, and I realize there's nothing I can do at this point. Again, I appreciate the thought out answer.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Recognize it’s all on you at this point. If you don’t match general surgery it won’t be because of the school you go to. Of your incoming stats are as such then you should be able to be above average in class and on boards, which will put you in good position to match general surgery/anesthesia.

And yes, recognize that you going to a DO program likely means goin go to a community general surgery program. It’s ok, there are much worse fates.

 

[BronteR]

As someone also in your position as a first year at an OG-5 DO school wanting to do a surgical field, just remember that you are the single greatest determining factor of your future prospects. The same truth applies if you had gone to a MD school in the area. Will it be an uphill battle? Sure. But it's an uphill battle for MD students wanting surgery as well. Plus look at the brighter side of things-- there are students at less established DO schools that will have an even tougher task ahead for the same future you and I want.

Don't let comparison be a theft of joy. Grind it out, do everything you can to set yourself apart and get into the field you want. I failed to garner a med school acceptance for 4 years despite being a qualified applicant. I'm happy to even have this opportunity and I'm going to make the most of it. You should too.

ICOM first match day had orthopedic surgery and general surgery matches. Be the best you can be and stop the self pity.

 

[deleted1088791]

ICOM first match day had orthopedic surgery and general surgery matches. Be the best you can be and stop the self pity.

Yes- who knows, maybe they had a family member who was a PD. It will be harder, no doubt unfortunately.

It's pragmatic thinking.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Yes- who knows, maybe they had a family member who was a PD. It will be harder, no doubt unfortunately.

It's pragmatic thinking.

Not likely. It’s far more likely they simply matched to smaller community and/or former DO programs.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Currently a first year DO student at an original 5 school.

Lately, I've been feeling somewhat bummed about my school, particularly after the match. The match list isn't bad per se, however it has much less competitive matches when compared to other MD schools in my area. I continue to be frustrated about attending my school. I don't really vibe with OMM.

I ended up applying to a few DO schools during my application cycle due to having multiple IAs. I had great stats (514 3.8+), but I had a feeling that these IA's would hurt my application. I know I should be grateful to even be a medical student, particularly after having multiple IA's, but I can't get over "what could have been", especially because I want to do general surgery/anesthesia. I constantly feel the pressure of out-performing classmates because I know I have an uphill battle to match at these specialties.

Can someone give me some insight about how to navigate these feelings?

Honestly it's a chip that we need to accept. Being a DO means we need to be smart, go out of our way to seek networking, and also leverage previous existing AOA programs that have transitioned to being ACGME and still prefer DOs. Which mind you are still fantastic programs that will train you well and get you into fellowships.

My recommendation is reach out in a non-annoying way to local residents and alumni. Having a resident vouch for you can get you in the door at a lot of places that your DO might have been screened out at. Then with good boards and a good interview you'll stand out in the crowd.

 

[wook]

As others have stated, do your best to excel. To optimize your chances, YOUR performance is going to make the biggest difference.

Wook

 

[Neopolymath]

Use this as fuel not as an excuse to pout. The students who excel are the ones who find motivation from little things to crush the day. A Boston Patriots/Michael Jordan mentality pushed me through med school to achieve my highest goals and have little stress. I say that as someone who couldn't really think less of DO schools and their structure.

 

[Ho0v-man]

You had your chance for MD and blew it. Welcome to the club. But you still have the opportunity to be the doctor you want to be. Right now you’re exactly where you are as a result of your own actions. That’ll be true after the match too.

If you can’t match gen surg or anesthesia from a DO school, that’s really more on you than your school. Just ignore their terrible advice and put together a good app.

 

[deleted1088791]

You had your chance for MD and blew it. Welcome to the club. But you still have the opportunity to be the doctor you want to be. Right now you’re exactly where you are as a result of your own actions. That’ll be true after the match too.

If you can’t match gen surg or anesthesia from a DO school, that’s really more on you than your school. Just ignore their terrible advice and put together a good app.

What if I reapplied MD this cycle... i didn't blow it yet!

 

[TUWEST_509]

Not likely. It’s far more likely they simply matched to smaller community and/or former DO programs.

Current ICOM student. The orthopedic surgery match was at East Tennessee State University (PD is a DO). The two general surgery matches were at Virginia Mason Franciscan Health in Seattle and HCA Medical City Arlington.

We also had two Dermatology matches at Beaumont Farmington hills in Michigan and Silver Falls dermatology in Oregon ( I think both are former AOA)

Other than that, we had one student match into IR at the University of Arizona. The first time they've ever accepted a DO into their program.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

What if I reapplied MD this cycle... i didn't blow it yet!

That's not possible for several reasons that people more familiar with AMCAS and the selection process can speak about. In addition, there's no reason to. DO's showed again in the match this year that you can get into any specialty you want. Get your head down and work! Be smart where you do your aways and where you apply. It's all achievable fi you work your tail off.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Current ICOM student. The orthopedic surgery match was at East Tennessee State University (PD is a DO). The two general surgery matches were at Virginia Mason Franciscan Health in Seattle and HCA Medical City Arlington.

We also had two Dermatology matches at Beaumont Farmington hills in Michigan and Silver Falls dermatology in Oregon ( I think both are former AOA)

Other than that, we had one student match into IR at the University of Arizona. The first time they've ever accepted a DO into their program.

ETSU ortho is a former DO program.

 

[deleted1088791]

That's not possible for several reasons that people more familiar with AMCAS and the selection process can speak about. In addition, there's no reason to. DO's showed again in the match this year that you can get into any specialty you want. Get your head down and work! Be smart where you do your aways and where you apply. It's all achievable fi you work your tail off.

It was mostly a joke: it would be financially terrible. But what if I was doing excellent but rather had disdain for OMM and really wanted to? I feel like no one truly knows what they are getting into when they go to a DO school. Sure, you can do research but I was very surprised with some things.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

It was mostly a joke: it would be financially terrible. But what if I was doing excellent but rather had disdain for OMM and really wanted to? I feel like no one truly knows what they are getting into when they go to a DO school. Sure, you can do research but I was very surprised with some things.

Welcome to the club. This is most OMS-I students. Hopefully in time, our generation will be the ones to replace the old guard and usher in the push for single accreditation. But until then—“close your eyes and think of England.”

 

[Goro]

Welcome to the club. This is most OMS-I students. Hopefully in time, our generation will be the ones to replace the old guard and usher in the push for single accreditation. But until then—“close your eyes and think of England.”

Or suspend you disbelief and see if you can learn something useful.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

As with anything in life, your opportunities are going to be largely determined by the effort that you put into matching into what you want to match into. Had you gone to an MD program, there is no gurantee that you’d match into a competitive specialty. Twitter & Reddit space are full of unmatched MDs who wanted something competitive but didn’t match. Whether your an MD or DO, its tough to get into any competitive specialty. That said, if you put your head down and start doing the things that you need to do to craft your eventual residency app, it can be you matching into what you want. At my school, UIWSOM, we just had our second match and had a handful of students match surgical specialties and had one who matched into interventional radiology. These folks worked hard to get what they wanted. And yeah, OMT can be a pain but surprisingly, when I changed my attitude from dreading it every week to saying “Let me see what I can take away from it,” I actually learned some things that have helped my wife with her chronic low back, hip, and knee pain.

Please, work hard, adopt a different attitude, and embrace this opportunity. You are going to be a DOCTOR no matter what initials are behind your name. Go create the application for residency that is going to get you the position that you want.

 

[SharonShares]

Currently a first year DO student at an original 5 school.

Lately, I've been feeling somewhat bummed about my school, particularly after the match. The match list isn't bad per se, however it has much less competitive matches when compared to other MD schools in my area. I continue to be frustrated about attending my school. I don't really vibe with OMM.

I ended up applying to a few DO schools during my application cycle due to having multiple IAs. I had great stats (514 3.8+), but I had a feeling that these IA's would hurt my application. I know I should be grateful to even be a medical student, particularly after having multiple IA's, but I can't get over "what could have been", especially because I want to do general surgery/anesthesia. I constantly feel the pressure of out-performing classmates because I know I have an uphill battle to match at these specialties.

Can someone give me some insight about how to navigate these feelings?

Breathe. Perhaps add meditation to your day.

The uphill battle is virtually the same for both MDs and DOs wanting to match into competitive specialties. Fortunately, you have decided on an area of interest early, so you can look for research and volunteer opportunities in your areas of interest. Select those that allow you to interact with more MDs and you'll hear similar complaints/challenges amongst them also. Take both the Comlex and USMLE and know that you can report both sets of scores to schools of your choice. Look for opportunities through research, conferences, participation in organizations that allow you to identify an MD mentor as a supplement to a solid DO mentor. There are still some programs that do not accept DOs but those are changing.

As for out-performing classmates, see if you can reframe your focus to change that you aren't competing against them but rather competing for your chance at the specialty of your dreams.

Good Luck! I know you'll make it.

 

[StressedBiClown]

It was mostly a joke: it would be financially terrible. But what if I was doing excellent but rather had disdain for OMM and really wanted to? I feel like no one truly knows what they are getting into when they go to a DO school. Sure, you can do research but I was very surprised with some things.

I went into school with mixed feelings about OMM, but I really wanted a DO school regardless. Is OMM going to cure cancer? No, of course not, but if it helps Aunt Linda get back to going out to brunch with her friends after that nasty spill on the ice, then it's worth it. My brother has chronic pain from an injury he sustained overseas and the VA hasn't been super helpful about him managing it. Some of the OMM techniques I've learned just in my first year let him sleep a little easier. If it helps him want to stay on this planet a little while longer with me, then it's worth it. It helps that my instructors know the worth AND limitations of the techniques so we don't go into fantasyland (plus I've been able to play "patient" with them and feel amazing afterwards), but maybe if you just take a look at things from a "how can I use this knowledge" point of view instead of just seeing it as a waste from the beginning, you won't be so miserable regardless of your instructors' views. One of the MDs who taught a patient care class of ours said she loves when DO students rotate with her because we're so comfortable using our hands from OMM. At the very least you could appreciate the extra time we spend reviewing anatomy during the class.
But if you really think you're just going to hate it to your core, then there's probably nothing I could tell you to get you to reconsider.

 

[MateoGM416]

Isn't it possible that a lot of students simply applied for less competitive residencies?

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

You can most definitely do anesthesia as a DO. But most of all you should be grateful that you are going to be a doctor. As goro said, don't be a self hating DO. This whole "what could have been" situation is water under the bridge at this point.

 

[deleted1079620]

Isn't it possible that a lot of students simply applied for less competitive residencies?

This. I’m a DO student who entered school knowing that I wanted to match in a community FM program someday and eventually practice in a rural setting, when I see students year after year talk about “bad” matches vs “good” matches, they often leave out the part where maybe a class just tended more towards primary care that one year. It’s frustrating to know that my #1 match choice will be seen as negative for my school by even my own classmates, even though I will be thrilled because it suits everything I want both professionally and personally.

 

[Goro]

This. I’m a DO student who entered school knowing that I wanted to match in a community FM program someday and eventually practice in a rural setting, when I see students year after year talk about “bad” matches vs “good” matches, they often leave out the part where maybe a class just tended more towards primary care that one year. It’s frustrating to know that my #1 match choice will be seen as negative for my school by even my own classmates, even though I will be thrilled because it suits everything I want both professionally and personally.

We faculty know that #1 match is more important, even if it's at Joe's Hospital and Clam Shack.

 

[Faster Horses]

I throw up in my mouth a little bit every time I have to study for our in house OMM exams/practicals. The bane of my existence... Oh well, this is the price I shall pay for not being worthy of the cherished MD acceptance hahaha

 

[MDMechEngr]

A low MCAT, gpa and/or multiple IAs turn most people into OMM believers, or maybe just during their DO school interview.

 

[deleted1088791]

Isn't it possible that a lot of students simply applied for less competitive residencies?

Certainly, right? I wonder if there is any metric to figure this out. For example, someone's #1 for residency is likely to be at a less competitive residency if their board scores are on the low end, right? Or if they are a at a less prestigious school with below average board scores, perhaps they realize it may be futile to apply to a competitive residency. Not sure, just a thought.

 

[deleted1088791]

A low MCAT, gpa and/or multiple IAs turn most people into OMM believers, or maybe just during their DO school interview.

A low MCAT, gpa and/or multiple IAs turn most people into OMM believers, or maybe just during their DO school interview.

Right on brotha now I know how relaxing the diaphragm can improve lymphatic drainage!

 

[deleted1079620]

Certainly, right? I wonder if there is any metric to figure this out. For example, someone's #1 for residency is likely to be at a less competitive residency if their board scores are on the low end, right? Or if they are a at a less prestigious school with below average board scores, perhaps they realize it may be futile to apply to a competitive residency. Not sure, just a thought.

Or because they have family reasons to stay in a certain area or they really, really liked a program when they visited there. It’s not always as simple as “if student A got a 700 on COMLEX they went to program 1, but if they had gotten a 450 they would have gone to program 2.”

For example, there’s a student at the top of my class who wants to be in certain geographical area due to family obligations. He has outright stated that no matter what his board scores are, he would be willing to match at a “lower tier” program rather than move from his preferred location.

 

[Ho0v-man]

The DO degree is a hindrance to matching competitive specialties/programs. I will never argue against that. But for the most part, the people who complain about being forced into primary care bc they went to a DO school were the below average students who wouldn’t have been good candidates for something super competitive regardless of where they attended or what their initials were.

And yes, while most people would prefer USMD, there are many students who came in wanting primary care and correctly realized delaying a year for MD was a waste of time.

The ortho or bust people who barely pass classes will forever claim to be victims of DO discrimination though.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

This. I’m a DO student who entered school knowing that I wanted to match in a community FM program someday and eventually practice in a rural setting, when I see students year after year talk about “bad” matches vs “good” matches, they often leave out the part where maybe a class just tended more towards primary care that one year. It’s frustrating to know that my #1 match choice will be seen as negative for my school by even my own classmates, even though I will be thrilled because it suits everything I want both professionally and personally.

This. 100%. I spent 20 years as an Army and civilian medic and another five working in primary care clinics in inner city Houston, TX. While I’m remaining open minded to what my clinical years will show me, I lean most strongly towards a career in FM, IM, or EM in a community setting. I’ve considered specialties such as GI and cardiology as I have a little more than a passing interest in them, but the above mentioned and the setting is what I get excited about. It irritates the hell out of me that folks would consider me matching into one of these fields as somehow being a “bad” match. Most everyone in my class came into school knowing that they wanted to do primary care and quite a few of us have preferences for community programs as opposed to academic, large medical centers. Yet outsiders will say, “Oh, they have a poor uncompetitive match list.” SMH

 

[DO2015CA]

This. 100%. I spent 20 years as an Army and civilian medic and another five working in primary care clinics in inner city Houston, TX. While I’m remaining open minded to what my clinical years will show me, I lean most strongly towards a career in FM, IM, or EM in a community setting. I’ve considered specialties such as GI and cardiology as I have a little more than a passing interest in them, but the above mentioned and the setting is what I get excited about. It irritates the hell out of me that folks would consider me matching into one of these fields as somehow being a “bad” match. Most everyone in my class came into school knowing that they wanted to do primary care and quite a few of us have preferences for community programs as opposed to academic, large medical centers. Yet outsiders will say, “Oh, they have a poor uncompetitive match list.” SMH

By the time you are applying you won’t care if others think it’s a bad match if it’s what you want

 

[wook]

The DO degree is a hindrance to matching competitive specialties/programs. I will never argue against that. But for the most part, the people who complain about being forced into primary care bc they went to a DO school were the below average students who wouldn’t have been good candidates for something super competitive regardless of where they attended or what their initials were.

I agree with the discussion, but would add I have not been hindered in my career by having a DO degree. The most important point is your initiative and performance to give you options. Bottom line, try and stay motivated to optimize your performance and thereby increase your chances of matching to a specialty of interest.

My specialty was fairly competitive back in the day (Emergency Medicine and Emergency Medical Services).



Wook

 

[Ho0v-man]

I agree with the discussion, but would add I have not been hindered in my career by having a DO degree. The most important point is your initiative and performance to give you options. Bottom line, try and stay motivated to optimize your performance and thereby increase your chances of matching to a specialty of interest.

My specialty was fairly competitive back in the day (Emergency Medicine and Emergency Medical Services).



Wook

Same. As much as I’ve complained about osteopathic medical education, at the end of the day I got everything I wanted out of my DO degree. In fact, I think being a DO student made me work that much harder in med school.

 

[calivianya]

No advice, just commiseration. After going through the Match, I can tell you that the bias is 100% real.

I fell to my #10 on my rank list. I will be the first person to admit that in hindsight, I aimed too high - I applied to, and interviewed at, a slew of places that have never taken a DO before, or have maybe taken 1-2 total in the past five years or so. I thought if they were willing to interview me, maybe if they liked me, they’d rank me to match and I’d be their first (or second) DO they’ve ever taken.

I stalked the Twitters and Instagrams of every place that passed me up out of sheer masochism, and I found *one DO total* this year, out of every spot at every program in my top 9. I can tell you now from personal experience that there are a few programs whose demographics on Frieda were 100% USMD who interviewed at least one DO, and chose to remain 100% USMD when it was time to make the rank list. Seeing that did make me feel better, though… it gave me the closure that maybe there was nothing else I could have done.

But here’s the thing - I matched in rads at a university program that has everything I could possibly need to become a great radiologist. I know my training is going to be fantastic.

As a DO, you might not get that bright shiny place where you wish you could be; in fact, you might be absolutely shocked at where you end up. The point is that you still have a shot, however slim, at nearly every specialty if you put in the work. You just have to adjust your expectations about what programs, and where, you are most likely to match.

 

[MateoGM416]

No advice, just commiseration. After going through the Match, I can tell you that the bias is 100% real.

I fell to my #10 on my rank list. I will be the first person to admit that in hindsight, I aimed too high - I applied to, and interviewed at, a slew of places that have never taken a DO before, or have maybe taken 1-2 total in the past five years or so. I thought if they were willing to interview me, maybe if they liked me, they’d rank me to match and I’d be their first (or second) DO they’ve ever taken.

I stalked the Twitters and Instagrams of every place that passed me up out of sheer masochism, and I found *one DO total* this year, out of every spot at every program in my top 9. I can tell you now from personal experience that there are a few programs whose demographics on Frieda were 100% USMD who interviewed at least one DO, and chose to remain 100% USMD when it was time to make the rank list. Seeing that did make me feel better, though… it gave me the closure that maybe there was nothing else I could have done.

But here’s the thing - I matched in rads at a university program that has everything I could possibly need to become a great radiologist. I know my training is going to be fantastic.

As a DO, you might not get that bright shiny place where you wish you could be; in fact, you might be absolutely shocked at where you end up. The point is that you still have a shot, however slim, at nearly every specialty if you put in the work. You just have to adjust your expectations about what programs, and where, you are most likely to match.

How/where did you check to see who matches at a program? Do all schools post about it on their socials openly?

 

[DOVinciRobot]

How/where did you check to see who matches at a program? Do all schools post about it on their socials openly?

Twitter, Instagram. Not all of them do but a good chunk

 

[deleted1079620]

How/where did you check to see who matches at a program? Do all schools post about it on their socials openly?

The programs also will post on social media to welcome their new residency class. I saw lots of posts with pictures and names on match day from the residency programs themselves, more than the schools.

 

[deleted1088791]

No advice, just commiseration. After going through the Match, I can tell you that the bias is 100% real.

I fell to my #10 on my rank list. I will be the first person to admit that in hindsight, I aimed too high - I applied to, and interviewed at, a slew of places that have never taken a DO before, or have maybe taken 1-2 total in the past five years or so. I thought if they were willing to interview me, maybe if they liked me, they’d rank me to match and I’d be their first (or second) DO they’ve ever taken.

I stalked the Twitters and Instagrams of every place that passed me up out of sheer masochism, and I found *one DO total* this year, out of every spot at every program in my top 9. I can tell you now from personal experience that there are a few programs whose demographics on Frieda were 100% USMD who interviewed at least one DO, and chose to remain 100% USMD when it was time to make the rank list. Seeing that did make me feel better, though… it gave me the closure that maybe there was nothing else I could have done.

But here’s the thing - I matched in rads at a university program that has everything I could possibly need to become a great radiologist. I know my training is going to be fantastic.

As a DO, you might not get that bright shiny place where you wish you could be; in fact, you might be absolutely shocked at where you end up. The point is that you still have a shot, however slim, at nearly every specialty if you put in the work. You just have to adjust your expectations about what programs, and where, you are most likely to match.

Thanks for the input- Honestly this helps me feel a lot better. An honest response with great insight!