Feeling overwhelmed by summer research

[engineerd]

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(Finished MS1) Just started summer clinical research with the chair of the Ophtho department at my school. We talked about starting a new project a few months ago but didn't hammer out the details until recently. It appears that I will be executing the entire thing from start to finish, beginning with writing the protocol for IRB approval, which I'm currently working on. This will be a prospective cohort study, so it's much easier than bench research.

I have no previous research experience, so this protocol drafting is a kinda freaking me out. I'm trying to find as many examples and templates as I can, but I'm still worried that mine will turn out terrible. He's a busy guy who can't meet with me very often, so I feel like I'm tackling this on my own.

Would appreciate any advice!

 

[mvenus929]

I know how you feel. I went to my mentor for ideas about research, and he gave me an idea, and I did everything else. Background research, IRB protocol, hospital research committee, data collection, data analysis, etc.

The IRB takes forever, but they are good about giving feedback. See if the Ophtho department has a research coordinator person; they are of great use in writing up these proposals because they know what the IRB is looking for. And worst case, you send your IRB draft to your mentor and he edits it heavily. You learn and you move on. Just make sure you understanding what you are looking for and why... it makes everything else easier.

 

[Tenk]

IRBs sound scary but in general you just literally say whatever it is you are doing. This won't get published anywhere and is just a huge time sink hence why he doesn't want to deal with it. If you have any specific questions I can answer them beyond "just fill out the forms and say whatever it is you are going to do and how you will do it." This doesn't have to sound eloquent just straight forward and to the point.

 

[Foot Fetish]

Same exact situation here. My mentor had an "idea" for a research project, and I'm the one doing all the leg work, starting from the IRB proposal. I, too, was overwhelmed when I first started. It gets easier. I realized that research is just a long, windy road in which you continuously get stuck and then unstuck. It's never perfectly smooth sailing. That's just the way it is. The most important thing is to keep working. Be aggressive. Make phone calls, schedule meetings, write drafts, keep it moving. Even if you're not exactly sure what you're doing, just keep getting things done.

Unfortunately, you didn't start working on the IRB sooner. That's my only concern for you at this point. I haven't started my summer break yet, but I've been unofficially working on my summer project for the past 2 months, namely the IRB proposal, which we just submitted last week. I'm hoping we have approval by the time I officially start, so I can dive right into the data collection.

Ultimately, you will be fine. You probably won't finish your project over the summer, and it will drag into M2 a bit. That's normal for good projects though. Like I said before though, never rest with research. There is always something to do. Finished the IRB proposal? Build your database. Finished that? Start writing the Intro and Methods section of your manuscript. Etc etc.

Good luck!

 

[engineerd]

I know how you feel. I went to my mentor for ideas about research, and he gave me an idea, and I did everything else. Background research, IRB protocol, hospital research committee, data collection, data analysis, etc.

The IRB takes forever, but they are good about giving feedback. See if the Ophtho department has a research coordinator person; they are of great use in writing up these proposals because they know what the IRB is looking for. And worst case, you send your IRB draft to your mentor and he edits it heavily. You learn and you move on. Just make sure you understanding what you are looking for and why... it makes everything else easier.

I guess I just had no idea that I would be doing literally everything lol. A lot of my friends are doing ortho research and they just seemed to hop on a project and started collecting data. There isn't a research coordinator, only for clinical trials and that's for my entire school. I think after I draft up my embarrassing protocol I'll just have to send it to him

IRBs sound scary but in general you just literally say whatever it is you are doing. This won't get published anywhere and is just a huge time sink hence why he doesn't want to deal with it. If you have any specific questions I can answer them beyond "just fill out the forms and say whatever it is you are going to do and how you will do it." This doesn't have to sound eloquent just straight forward and to the point.

How scientific do I have to sound in the protocol? I literally have 0 research experience, so I'm going off of papers I'm reading online to emulate the language. It's not a terribly complicated project, basically a cross-sectional study using surveys

Same exact situation here. My mentor had an "idea" for a research project, and I'm the one doing all the leg work, starting from the IRB proposal. I, too, was overwhelmed when I first started. It gets easier. I realized that research is just a long, windy road in which you continuously get stuck and then unstuck. It's never perfectly smooth sailing. That's just the way it is. The most important thing is to keep working. Be aggressive. Make phone calls, schedule meetings, write drafts, keep it moving. Even if you're not exactly sure what you're doing, just keep getting things done.

Unfortunately, you didn't start working on the IRB sooner. That's my only concern for you at this point. I haven't started my summer break yet, but I've been unofficially working on my summer project for the past 2 months, namely the IRB proposal, which we just submitted last week. I'm hoping we have approval by the time I officially start, so I can dive right into the data collection.

Ultimately, you will be fine. You probably won't finish your project over the summer, and it will drag into M2 a bit. That's normal for good projects though. Like I said before though, never rest with research. There is always something to do. Finished the IRB proposal? Build your database. Finished that? Start writing the Intro and Methods section of your manuscript. Etc etc.

Good luck!

Thanks! I actually did start about 2 months ago, but mostly preliminary literature review. I started drafting the background back then too so I have a little of it done. The chair is also very busy so he had to push back 2 meetings with me, which is why there's such a delay. How long does it take for the IRB proposal to come back? I'm prepared to work on the project here and there in MS2 (even MS3), as I'll be traveling for 2 weeks during the summer anyways

 

[sammiesings]

As a former research coordinator whose unfortunately/fortunately had to write way too many irb approved protocols, my advice to you is to write something decent up but to submit it as soon as you can. No matter how good your protocol is, they will always have something they want you to change. Always. And they take forever to turn things around. Just turn it in. The second pass after they tell you everything they think is"wrong" with it is when you really have to spend a good chunk of time making sure it's perfect. You really don't want them to send it back to you a second time because that's your whole summer right there

 

[engineerd]

As a former research coordinator whose unfortunately/fortunately had to write way too many irb approved protocols, my advice to you is to write something decent up but to submit it as soon as you can. No matter how good your protocol is, they will always have something they want you to change. Always. And they take forever to turn things around. Just turn it in. The second pass after they tell you everything they think is"wrong" with it is when you really have to spend a good chunk of time making sure it's perfect. You really don't want them to send it back to you a second time because that's your whole summer right there

Damn, what could I be doing in the meantime while I wait for it to turnaround?

 

[sammiesings]

Damn, what could I be doing in the meantime while I wait for it to turnaround?

Idk lol. What I've had to do in the past has been pretty protocol dependant.

Ie:

- set up your database
- make your crfs
- connect with the nurses whose floors/clinics you're going to be recruiting on
- make your r scripts
- research what journals you want to publish in
- create a skeleton for your paper/abstract. But understand it may be completely useless in the end
- find a department statistician if you're going to need one
- set up an organizational scheme for your dataset.

I mean the work is endless and slow af in research. You can always be working on something/setting something up. Just plan ahead for what you'll need once it's approved so you can hit the ground running once your approval is in.

 

[Goro]

(Finished MS1) Just started summer clinical research with the chair of the Ophtho department at my school. We talked about starting a new project a few months ago but didn't hammer out the details until recently. It appears that I will be executing the entire thing from start to finish, beginning with writing the protocol for IRB approval, which I'm currently working on. This will be a prospective cohort study, so it's much easier than bench research.

I have no previous research experience, so this protocol drafting is a kinda freaking me out. I'm trying to find as many examples and templates as I can, but I'm still worried that mine will turn out terrible. He's a busy guy who can't meet with me very often, so I feel like I'm tackling this on my own.

Would appreciate any advice!

Talk to your colleagues who gave experience in this! Also, members of the school's IRB committee. Get examples

 

[sammiesings]

Talk to your colleagues who gave experience in this! Also, members of the school's IRB committee. Get examples

Agree with getting examples. I used to give these to students if they asked. Don't do this cold though- try to stay in the department. Technically it's someone's intellectual work and folks don't always want that to be disseminated that far.

Irb committee membership isn't generally published though-- at least not anywhere I've been. You can talk to the irb analysts though. Be really nice and they can be your best allies in helping you avoid the rookie mistakes

 

[Candidate2017]

I guess I just had no idea that I would be doing literally everything lol. A lot of my friends are doing ortho research and they just seemed to hop on a project and started collecting data.

This is the beauty of the ortho bro mindset. Broke broke, me fix. Research, me get data.

 

[Tenk]

I guess I just had no idea that I would be doing literally everything lol. A lot of my friends are doing ortho research and they just seemed to hop on a project and started collecting data. There isn't a research coordinator, only for clinical trials and that's for my entire school. I think after I draft up my embarrassing protocol I'll just have to send it to him



How scientific do I have to sound in the protocol? I literally have 0 research experience, so I'm going off of papers I'm reading online to emulate the language. It's not a terribly complicated project, basically a cross-sectional study using surveys



Thanks! I actually did start about 2 months ago, but mostly preliminary literature review. I started drafting the background back then too so I have a little of it done. The chair is also very busy so he had to push back 2 meetings with me, which is why there's such a delay. How long does it take for the IRB proposal to come back? I'm prepared to work on the project here and there in MS2 (even MS3), as I'll be traveling for 2 weeks during the summer anyways

If you sound bad they will say redo this part. If it passes who cares. The key is speed. You should be able to write this up in 1-2 days tops. I've had to bust a ton of these out. Whatever passes works. Again, these don't get published so who cares.

 

[mvenus929]

How long does it take for the IRB proposal to come back? I'm prepared to work on the project here and there in MS2 (even MS3), as I'll be traveling for 2 weeks during the summer anyways

To give you an idea... I submitted my IRB proposal in early June last year. I had to wait for my PI to sign off on it. Then it took about 2 weeks for preliminary review. Then I had to make all the edits, submit, and wait for my PI to sign off again. Then I had to get physical copies of everything to the IRB office. I finally got it submitted early August, and approved early September. Then, because the IRB is through the med school and not the hospital, I had to get the hospital to approve it, which took another month and a half. I was finally able to start actually collecting data at the end of October.

 

[engineerd]

To give you an idea.. I submitted my IRB proposal in early June last year. I had to wait for my PI to sign off on it. Then it took about 2 weeks for preliminary review. Then I had to make all the edits, submit, and wait for my PI to sign off again. Then I had to get physical copies of everything to the IRB office. I finally got it submitted early August, and approved early September. Then, because the IRB is through the med school and not the hospital, I had to get the hospital to approve it, which took another month and a half. I was finally able to start actually collecting data at the end of October.

****. Yea it looks like it takes about a month between submitting it to my school for first round of approval, and them actually reviewing it. Then I can submit it to the IRB after edits. I'm just really not sure what I could be doing while waiting around.. Setting up the manuscript skeleton? Preparing for data collection I guess?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yeah I tried to avoid this **** show as much as I could. My current PI has already done the IRB and I just need to be added to it. I think the two pearls of wisdom I got from SDN is this:

1) If the PI says "I have an idea" you run
2) Look at pubmed to see how active they are in publishing

It helped me in dodging PIs who take too long to push out their work (or are putzing around). Well, I will see where this current project takes me and if I am lucky I may land a pub (I don't mind if it doesn't as long I am actually doing some work and actually learning!).

 

[Jumb0]

If the PI says "I have an idea" you run

Or you stay, do the work, get published, and then get an epic LoR because you had the balls to take on a project from scratch....

At least that's what I tell myself because I'm in the same exact situation as OP...

 

[IslandStyle808]

Or you stay, do the work, get published, and then get an epic LoR because you had the balls to take on a project from scratch....

At least that's what I tell myself because I'm in the same exact situation as OP...

Good luck to you man. We don't know what the future holds for us. For all I know, you will have multiple pubs and I will end up "just saying" I did research during my residency interviews. Well, at least our PIs are willing to give us poor medical students a shot (I am very grateful to my PI for sure!).