Feeling torn between applying MD or MD/PhD

[Qwerty2013]

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I am currently a senior about to apply for med school next year. (So I guess Ill have two years before I enter med school). Anyhow, I have a lot of research exp (since high school), had good opportunities at amazing institutions, and I'm also currently working in a lab (where I can potentially get authorship while working on my own project). There has def been a tradeoff in terms of time committment as I have just begun clinical experience. (I volunteered in hospitals in HS and I've known since then about becoming an MD but I know it doesnt count for AMCAS). Anyway, people say I should consider MD-PhD and I have. I also really do enjoy research and like it very much but I just can't see myself doing fulltime (or 80/20) bench work as a clinician because I love working with people sliiightly more than doing lab work. Is this an adequate reason for wanting to pursue the MD (only) path? How difficult is it to do research on the side (probably in a clinical or collaborative capacity) as an MD? The key is the that although I really like research (bench or clinical) I cannot envision doing research almost full time (compromising clinical time). Would appreciate any insight on this... Thank you! 🙂

 

[SkipJunior]

You can definitely do research on the side with just an MD, you don't need to have a PhD as well to do that.

Plus, I hope you know that MD-PhD programs are very competitive and usually expect even higher MCAT scores and GPA than applying to just MD programs. Plus the majority of applicants and pretty much everyone who's accepted has extensive research experience and multiple publications under their belt.

I would suggest that you just focus on the MD if your primary interest is in practicing medicine.

 

[Lucca]

Most Md/PhD applicants don't have a publication going into the cycle so it's not true that most have multiple publications. It is true, however, that their GPAs/MCATs are higher and that they have multiple years of research experience (as you do). Go to the Physician Scientist WAMC sticky for more info, it's fairly comprehensive.

However you weren't asking about chances. I'm not an MD/PhD but I am considering it myself. From what I've seen and heard, if you don't want to do research full time (80/20 being the dream for most md PhDs probably) or run a lab then I would say go for the MD only.

There are other pathways to becoming a physician scientist but it will definitely be more challenging to produce good bench work as a near full time MD but the doors to translational or clinical research will never close and it may even be possible to transfer internally into your schools MD PHD program if something about first and second year tip your preferences in some direction.

The way I'm currently thinking about the question MD or dual degree is that if I don't want research and academics to be my career in and of itself with only an aspect of clinical care then I definitely won't do the dual degree. I would say the same could apply to you and if you're sure you would rather spend more of your time doing clinical work I definitely don't think the dual degree is worth the investment. My 2 cents, I hope some of the Md/PhDs on the forum can chime in.

 

[SkipJunior]

Most Md/PhD applicants don't have a publication going into the cycle so it's not true that most have multiple publications. It is true, however, that their GPAs/MCATs are higher and that they have multiple years of research experience (as you do). Go to the Physician Scientist WAMC sticky for more info, it's fairly comprehensive.

However you weren't asking about chances. I'm not an MD/PhD but I am considering it myself. From what I've seen and heard, if you don't want to do research full time (80/20 being the dream for most md PhDs probably) or run a lab then I would say go for the MD only.

There are other pathways to becoming a physician scientist but it will definitely be more challenging to produce good bench work as a near full time MD but the doors to translational or clinical research will never close and it may even be possible to transfer internally into your schools MD PHD program if something about first and second year tip your preferences in some direction.

The way I'm currently thinking about the question MD or dual degree is that if I don't want research and academics to be my career in and of itself with only an aspect of clinical care then I definitely won't do the dual degree. I would say the same could apply to you and if you're sure you would rather spend more of your time doing clinical work I definitely don't think the dual degree is worth the investment. My 2 cents, I hope some of the Md/PhDs on the forum can chime in.

Thanks for the correction vis a vis your first sentence.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I had to resolve this myself as well. I wanted to do MD/PhD because I wanted to do clinical research; however, I soon discovered the 80/20 rule and mostly bench research and realized it wasn't for me. As mentioned above, you can still do research as an MD only (I want to do surgical research myself) and so it seems like this would be the better fit for you.

 

[wowsers]

If in doubt, go MD only. I've always been told this.

 

[MajorBubblez]

What do you want to spend the majority of your working life doing, treating patients or studying specific aspects of medicine. You can still do a ton of research as an MD, a PhD isn't necessary at all.

 

[y123]

Sounds like MD only suits you better.
If you are not fully committed to MD/PhD, don't do it.

 

[LizzyM]

MD only will be sufficient for clinical research. If you want additional skills in clinical research look for fellowship training (after residency) that will cover an MS in clinical investigation.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

Questions to ask yourself:
1. Do I want to be a clinician or Physician scientist?
Most dual degrees spend 1-2 days in clinic and most of the time setting up their lab and doing bench research. If you do not like this set up then there is n point of taking 3 years to do scientific training.
2. Do I want to do bench research or clinical research?
If its clinical then you can take a year in between med school to work at a lab, or do research in summers, or find a research fellowship during residency.

If you want to be in the role of physician scientist and do basic bench research (i.e molecular genetics lab) then consider:
1. How competitive you are for admissions. You need a 34+ on mcat and 3.8+ on gpa to be considered for top programs.
2. Apply to good research medical schools. When you apply for MD schools it doen't really matter which school you go to (if they are in same tier) because you get adequate training at most places. However for PhD programs, you really need to find a fit, and moreover, you need a good mentor. So find schools that have good funding for research, well known faculty, and a location you want to go to. These typically end up being even more competitive MD/PhD programs. There is not much value going to a decent med school with poor research programs.

Then finally consider:
1. Do I want to spend an extra 3-4 years doing the PhD?
2. Am I ok making less money than a Physician? This varies but typically physicians make money based on procedures they perform in the clinic which you will have limited weekly time in.
3. Do I want to make medical school harder for myself? You will have to think/study differently for succeeding in both programs and adapt quickly to the demands placed on you. You also will feel sightly left behind when you enter clincal rotations which will be pose a steep learning curve

 

[Lil Mick]

Just some feedback from MD/PhD program... Those who aren't in love with doing research--whether basic science or something more clinical--are miserable for their research years. I've known a few who were almost at the point of approaching our program and offering to pay back their stipends if they could go back to medical school (this varies by school and type of stipend/scholarship). Don't put yourself in that position.

MD/PhD is for PhD's who really need an MD for the type of research they are doing or for researchers who also want to practice medicine. It's not for people who are undecided about research. You WILL be asked about which you would choose if there were no MD/PhD--and you won't be accepted at some programs if you say MD.

Also, some programs require you to be doing research doing your MD years, meaning that when your classmates are studying for a biochem exam, you will be doing research and competing against those who only study for the exams. You need to really love research to enjoy yourself while you are in those years...

 

[Microglia]

Just some feedback from MD/PhD program... Those who aren't in love with doing research--whether basic science or something more clinical--are miserable for their research years. I've known a few who were almost at the point of approaching our program and offering to pay back their stipends if they could go back to medical school (this varies by school and type of stipend/scholarship). Don't put yourself in that position.

MD/PhD is for PhD's who really need an MD for the type of research they are doing or for researchers who also want to practice medicine. It's not for people who are undecided about research. You WILL be asked about which you would choose if there were no MD/PhD--and you won't be accepted at some programs if you say MD.

Also, some programs require you to be doing research doing your MD years, meaning that when your classmates are studying for a biochem exam, you will be doing research and competing against those who only study for the exams. You need to really love research to enjoy yourself while you are in those years...

A few things I want to clear up from this post:

If you go to an MSTP (NIH funded) MD/PhD, then you will never, ever, ever have to pay back your stipend if you drop the PhD. It's in the bylines of the institution receiving the funding.

Of MSTP's, I've never heard of *requiring* research during the medical years at the 15ish places I interviewed at. This is certainly not common practice. In fact, I'd say MD-only applicants are under more pressure to do this in order to get a publication before ERAS.

Last I checked, only ~1/3 of MD/PhD's end up in a typical 80/20 split. Things people won't tell you in person: many are gunning for high up administrative positions (deanships, directorships, etc), which are easier to get with a clinical and basic science background (after all, these positions manage both- so it helps to speak both lingos).

That being said, yea research can be torture for most people. Don't do it if you don't love it- or you'll waste a ton of your life.

 

[Long Way to Go]

Of MSTP's, I've never heard of *requiring* research during the medical years at the 15ish places I interviewed at. This is certainly not common practice. In fact, I'd say MD-only applicants are under more pressure to do this in order to get a publication before ERAS..

Good post overall; I just wanted to clarify that most programs do in fact require research the summer after M1 (it's just an option for MD students) and sometimes the summer before M1 as well. I haven't heard of a program requiring anything more than an extra course during the academic year for MD/PhD candidates.