Fellowship and Match

[5twilight5]

Hi guys,
I am sure we have all heard that there is a match for pain this year, although it seems like less than 50% of programs are planning to be a part of the match. How are you guys dealing with this? It seems like theres a risk if you wait until the match to choose a fellowship and theres a risk to accept an offer and not wait for the match to possibly go to a better program.

Any strategies out there?

Also what are everyone's thoughts on the best programs (combined interventional and medicine) this year?

Thanks!

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[Taus]

Where did you hear that <50% will participate? From the file that I saw a few months ago the only programs listed as not participating or not confirmed either way yet were:

No response/Undecided
Loma Linda
VA Greater Los Angeles
Allegheny/W Penn WPH
Temple U


Will Not Participate
UCLA Medical Center
Cincinnati Childrens
Columbia/New York Pres
U Buffalo

It would truly be a royal clusterf if it was around half/half.....

 

[5twilight5]

also will not be participating:
duke
CCF
wake forest?
vcu

 

[Taus]

interesting... those were all listed under the "will participate" category from the initial email that went out

 

[DOctorJay]

I heard more like 90% participation from my PD

 

[pmr11]

Where might we find the information as to who is participating and who is not?

 

[5twilight5]

Well the program coordinators from the various individual programs stated they will not be participating so I would believe them over the website

 

[DOctorJay]

5T5

That's interesting info. Ill see if I can get you guys some more info.

 

[oreosandsake]

Going through a match process will take out the "bird in the hand" dilemna for some applicants, but it may also augment bias.

ex: hypothetically program X takes 1 non-anesthesiology resident every year. if they make a ROL, and if there is specialty bias, how can they even assure that that one spot goes to a different field? Even if they ranked that person #1, that applicant may match somewhere else.

on the other hand, they could also end up with an entire fellowship class of FM, psych, neuro, and PM&R...

 

[Medalot]

I would send in my application AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (do not wait til after the ITE as many applicants do) ...whether the program is going through the match or not. Programs not going through the match admit on a rolling basis until they fill their spots (and weaker programs may offer spots even earlier this year to pull stronger applicants out of the match) . Programs going through the match will only offer interviews until interview spots are full. Either way, early bird catches the worm. Pain fellowship is very competitive. Good luck everyone!

 

[freddydpt]

Has anyone heard of the "all-in" rule? I've heard rumors that it might apply to fellowship in which case all programs will essentially be required to be in the match.

http://www.nrmp.org/all-in.pdf

update: Found out that the rule does NOT apply to pain fellowships... phew.

 

[freddydpt]

interesting... those were all listed under the "will participate" category from the initial email that went out

Which initial email are you referring to?
Thanks!

 

[gasattack3]

bump

 

[Medalot]

Anybody been offered a spot outside the match yet? With a match this year, I wonder how common will it still be for pain fellowship spots to be taken up by in house residents.

 

[gasattack3]

The coordinator at Loyola sent me an email with the NRMP data/info.

Apparently, unlike matching for residency, there is a "match to rank" clause/option. If a program "ranks you to match" (they'd have to TELL you this) then if you rank them #1 you are guaranteed a spot. This is different from the residency match process where programs are supposed to be forbidden from giving you that kind of feedback.



Seems kinda weird but that's what her document states. I also wonder if it's some sort of gentleman's agreement or how that would work. Spit and a handshake?? We shall see.

 

[Ducttape]

the number of spots for fellowship are very limited, and the intimate contact a program director has with residents who are very interested in staying at a particular institution are quite high.

during my residency years and fellowship years, over 50% of the fellows were anesth residents, 30% PMR residents, and the remaining spots were from elsewhere.

it is quite inbred. this system probably continues that, but it means that the fellowship can basically promise spots to residents they know and are sure of. given the paucity of spots, i think its a good thing for the programs.

im guessing the program director is telling his residents "we definitely want you to stay here. rank us #1, you are guaranteed a spot."

 

[Medalot]

the number of spots for fellowship are very limited, and the intimate contact a program director has with residents who are very interested in staying at a particular institution are quite high.

during my residency years and fellowship years, over 50% of the fellows were anesth residents, 30% PMR residents, and the remaining spots were from elsewhere.

it is quite inbred. this system probably continues that, but it means that the fellowship can basically promise spots to residents they know and are sure of. given the paucity of spots, i think its a good thing for the programs.

im guessing the program director is telling his residents "we definitely want you to stay here. rank us #1, you are guaranteed a spot."

I agree that was probably true before, but I think more and more people are going into fellowship (as indicated by the need to have an organized "Match") and this changes the game. This allows programs to essentially reject their own residents without directly admitting to it as the Match dilutes responsibility for outcome. Additionally, with more people going into fellowship there are probably more highly competitive applicants in the pool to select from and therefore smaller, weaker programs may reject their own residents in favor of these stronger applicants from big name programs. In other words, with more residents going into fellowships than spots available, residents from smaller programs are at an even bigger disadvantage as fellowship spots at their own program may start going to applicants from big name programs. (of course, big name fellowships will still probably take their own residents).

 

[Medalot]

By the way, do you guys think Pain fellowship is getting more or less competitive? (Especially with all the talk of lower reimbursements).

 

[gasattack3]

By the way, do you guys think Pain fellowship is getting more or less competitive? (Especially with all the talk of lower reimbursements).

I have to think more competitive regardless of those projections. While I really don't agree with the "necessity" to do a fellowship, it seems like the numbers who do are growing every year.