Fellowship and salary

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Dryacku

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What is the starting pay for a regular anethesia per year? Rought idea would be helpful???

Also what is the deal with pain, is it getting too saturated and are othoped's taking most of the patients???

How much can does a doc make on doing a standard L4-L5 steroid injection???

also if what is the deal with the other fellowships??? Cardiac vs. SICU
 
Dryacku said:
What is the starting pay for a regular anethesia per year? Rought idea would be helpful???

Also what is the deal with pain, is it getting too saturated and are othoped's taking most of the patients???

How much can does a doc make on doing a standard L4-L5 steroid injection???

also if what is the deal with the other fellowships??? Cardiac vs. SICU
what again is a regular anesthesia? can you sart by thinking your questions over before posting them
 
Ladies and gentlemen! Drinking and posting are never a good combination! :laugh:
 
but it is probably more than an irregular anesthesia.
 
Dryacku said:
What is the starting pay for a regular anethesia per year? Rought idea would be helpful???

Also what is the deal with pain, is it getting too saturated and are othoped's taking most of the patients???

How much can does a doc make on doing a standard L4-L5 steroid injection???

also if what is the deal with the other fellowships??? Cardiac vs. SICU
avg salary for all gas heads are around 250-300 according to various salary surveys.

pain has higher upside, 400-500/yr.

fee schedules for various procedures can be found here:
http://www.painrounds.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=45

hope that helps
 
automaton said:
avg salary for all gas heads are around 250-300 according to various salary surveys.

pain has higher upside, 400-500/yr.

fee schedules for various procedures can be found here:
http://www.painrounds.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=45

hope that helps

Anesthesiologists salaries are beyond variable, depending on region.

BIG (three time) variance too. Not talking about plus-or-minus 75k.

So those "average" numbers tell you nothing.
 
jetproppilot said:
Anesthesiologists salaries are beyond variable, depending on region.

BIG (three time) variance too. Not talking about plus-or-minus 75k.

So those "average" numbers tell you nothing.

So I guess that from this post you make much more than the average (not trying to pry). No worries, you are absolutely right, Jet. The #'s mean nothing. It all depends on the needs of the region and the efficiency of the group.

By the way, any pain specialist making that kind of money must be taking 20+ weeks vacation.
 
Noyac said:
By the way, any pain specialist making that kind of money must be taking 20+ weeks vacation.

what? pain doctor..

I didnt think they made that much..

WTF?
 
stephend7799 said:
what? pain doctor..

I didnt think they made that much..

WTF?


Dude, the ones I know make BANK.

They better, if they are going to deal with those patients. No Thanks!
Been there! Done That!
 
Noyac said:
So I guess that from this post you make much more than the average (not trying to pry). No worries, you are absolutely right, Jet. The #'s mean nothing. It all depends on the needs of the region and the efficiency of the group.

By the way, any pain specialist making that kind of money must be taking 20+ weeks vacation.

No, bro. Remember, I moved to NOLA for family reasons.

My current gig pays better than the average.

But my previous gig was off the chart.
 
Noyac said:
Dude, the ones I know make BANK.

They better, if they are going to deal with those patients. No Thanks!
Been there! Done That!


Hey,

Future pain doc here.

The question I would like the answer to is "Can I make that amount without compromising my integrity?, i.e. becoming a needle-jockey/block-jock"
 
Dryacku said:
What is the starting pay for a regular anethesia per year? Rought idea would be helpful???

Also what is the deal with pain, is it getting too saturated and are othoped's taking most of the patients???

How much can does a doc make on doing a standard L4-L5 steroid injection???

also if what is the deal with the other fellowships??? Cardiac vs. SICU

also, what is the deal with that surgery thing??? :laugh:
 
Noyac said:
Dude, the ones I know make BANK.

They better, if they are going to deal with those patients. No Thanks!
Been there! Done That!

I hear this a lot about pain patients. I have worked in a pain clinic with a doc who felt the same way, hated the patients, couldnt wait to get out of the clinic.

I personally think its just that he didnt like patients of any sort. WHy are pain patients so notoriously difficult? If they are junkies seeking drugs just tell them no. I dont really get this point of view? Can you elaborate?
 
Hoya11 said:
I hear this a lot about pain patients. I have worked in a pain clinic with a doc who felt the same way, hated the patients, couldnt wait to get out of the clinic.

I personally think its just that he didnt like patients of any sort. WHy are pain patients so notoriously difficult? If they are junkies seeking drugs just tell them no. I dont really get this point of view? Can you elaborate?
um...you need to be able to feed your kids :laugh:
 
Hoya11 said:
I hear this a lot about pain patients. I have worked in a pain clinic with a doc who felt the same way, hated the patients, couldnt wait to get out of the clinic.

I personally think its just that he didnt like patients of any sort. WHy are pain patients so notoriously difficult? If they are junkies seeking drugs just tell them no. I dont really get this point of view? Can you elaborate?

Patients with chronic pain are irritable and depressed primarily because of the psycholoigcal toll the pain has on them plus alot of them are on opiods and are needing an opiod fix when u see the. In addition, alot of these patients have underlying psychological issues independant of their pain problems. This makes for angry irritable patients.

They somehow suck u into their misery and leave u feeling nasty yourself. I did a pain rotation and one of the pain specialist said he didn't think he would last in the field much longer (he was three years in). The guy was so miserable that there were times where after seeing a patient the guy was literally almost in tears with frustration.
 
MedicinePowder said:
Patients with chronic pain are irritable and depressed primarily because of the psycholoigcal toll the pain has on them plus alot of them are on opiods and are needing an opiod fix when u see the. In addition, alot of these patients have underlying psychological issues independant of their pain problems. This makes for angry irritable patients.

They somehow suck u into their misery and leave u feeling nasty yourself. I did a pain rotation and one of the pain specialist said he didn't think he would last in the field much longer (he was three years in). The guy was so miserable that there were times where after seeing a patient the guy was literally almost in tears with frustration.

Right. These patients are often difficult to satisfy. Many of them are very demanding. Some of them can be very manipulative. It is often hard to know what is the chicken and what is the egg: the pain or the underlying psychological issues. You don't need to work in a pain clinic to come across these patients. They show up in primary care clinics, medicine wards, and a number of other places. Taking care of patients like these is one of the most challenging and frustrating things that I have done.
 
Hoya11 said:
I hear this a lot about pain patients. I have worked in a pain clinic with a doc who felt the same way, hated the patients, couldnt wait to get out of the clinic.

I personally think its just that he didnt like patients of any sort. WHy are pain patients so notoriously difficult? If they are junkies seeking drugs just tell them no. I dont really get this point of view? Can you elaborate?

When you get your sixth page of the day from your nurse telling you about your patient and why he needs more oxycodone two weeks early you will understand why they are so difficult. Then it will be reinforced when the ER calls you cause they showed up there wanting pain meds. The patients will often further emphasize the point by cursing and screaming about lawsuits in your waiting room. Just telling them "no" is not as straight-forward as you would think. Also, if you know of an easy way to really tell who is a junky seeking drugs, let us know. It is very frustrating trying to not leave someone in legitimate pain but also trying not to get used. Not trying to be a dick, but the problems become obvious with only a little bit of experience. I'm only an intern but I've had my fill of pain medicine.
 
augmel said:
When you get your sixth page of the day from your nurse telling you about your patient and why he needs more oxycodone two weeks early you will understand why they are so difficult. Then it will be reinforced when the ER calls you cause they showed up there wanting pain meds. The patients will often further emphasize the point by cursing and screaming about lawsuits in your waiting room. Just telling them "no" is not as straight-forward as you would think. Also, if you know of an easy way to really tell who is a junky seeking drugs, let us know. It is very frustrating trying to not leave someone in legitimate pain but also trying not to get used. Not trying to be a dick, but the problems become obvious with only a little bit of experience. I'm only an intern but I've had my fill of pain medicine.

Thanks for the responses. I just dont understand why any of that is my problem as the pain doc.

If someone is yelling and cursing in my waiting room, he is no longer my patient. I am not talking about working in a pain clinic in a hospital, I mean private or group practice. Your cursing? Get out. Your done with your oxycodone 2 weeks early? If it happens again your out. You appear crazy? No meds, go home. I mean it is not like we are just forced to do whatever these people want. Cant you just cherry pick the ones you find legitiamit? "We dont give narcotics here, we only do injections" ANd then give narcotics to only those who need it. Sure you come across the crazies, but I dont stand why you have any obligation to do anything to someone you have even the slightest question about.
 
Your right to a certain extent. There are many practices where they refuse to issue narcotics. The purely do interventions. You also have the right to refuse someone who is being abusive in your waiting room. However, it is not always as easy as just 'cherry picking' your patients. There is a certain obligation as a physician to stand by your patients. The nature of pain, as has been illucidated here in previous posts, has a definite psych component even in baseline normal individuals. By definition, the practice of pain medicine has a different feel than anesthesia. It is a clinic based, continuity of care field. Long term management of patients will inevitably lead to issues that are unique to this relationship. Even though you can taylor your practice to minimize this exposure, it cannot be avoided.

This is a reality, but not necessarily a negative. We are all looking for different things in medicine. Some have come on here and asked if IM paid the same with similar hours would we do that. A legitimate question, but insane to me personally. I love anesthesia, and even though the hours and salary are sweet, I like the nature of what we do. Others miss the traditional role of 'physician' that is demonstrated by primary care docs.

Pain gives a certain sense of autonomy that is missing in anesthesia. As anesthesiologists we are essentially consultants. We offer a service, and consult on others patients. While this is definitely a plus in many people's book, some miss having their own patients. Pain can fill this void. You will get varying degrees of opinions regarding this topic based on personal preferences. Currently I enjoy the consultant life, but many of my colleagues are already looking at pain.
 
Is it common to be able to do interventional pain a few days a week and still work in the OR? Or do you have to decide one or the other?
 
From what I've heard, most in the private world go one way or the other. It is definitely possible, but not the most practical. Most people who put the time into doing a pain fellowship, want to do mainly pain.

Saying that, it is not uncommon for attendings in an academic setting to rotate through pain clinic in addition to OR responsibilities. If you are looking for more of the interventional, high end procedures, I would dare to assume that they are mainly done by those who do it full time. Usually ones interest leads you one way or the other. The CA-3's at my program who are doing pain next year, it is like pulling teeth to get them back into the OR. Their affinity leads to where they want to spend the most time.
 
Hoya11 said:
I hear this a lot about pain patients. I have worked in a pain clinic with a doc who felt the same way, hated the patients, couldnt wait to get out of the clinic.

I personally think its just that he didnt like patients of any sort. WHy are pain patients so notoriously difficult? If they are junkies seeking drugs just tell them no. I dont really get this point of view? Can you elaborate?

I think your question has probably been answered already but I didn't read all the responses, so here's mine.

Pain pts can be very rewarding, and generally are. It is the few that ruin it for me. They can very manipulative, demanding, and uncooperative. You can rid your practice of the ones that are obvious but you can't catch them all by any means and you find yourself trying to determine if every pt is giving you a straight answer or if they are out for something. Many have been injured at work (whether the injury is real or not 0 and have no itentions of going backto work. I can't stand these pts. You will need a full-time Psychologist in your clinic to deal with your pts if you want to do it right and spend less of your time trying to figure some of them out. You need narc. contracts. You will be called at all hours of the day and night. They never call at 10 am on a weekday when you can handle their problem. they call at 3am on sunday. they will lie to you about what other doctors have said and what narcs have been given. And basically even the best chronic pain pt will over time become a nightmare from time to time. Now I am not saying that this is everyones experience with pain pts but it is mine and I don't want any more of it.
 
Disciple said:
Hey,

Future pain doc here.

The question I would like the answer to is "Can I make that amount without compromising my integrity?, i.e. becoming a needle-jockey/block-jock"

Sure you can. If you want to make more then I don't know. You will find out for yourself what you need to do and if you are compromising your Integrity or not. I am not trying to generalize here but most pain guys I have met are really concerned withthe amount of jack they make, the type of car they drive, where they live and how many sq ft their house is. Not my style at all.
 
Thanks,

If I need to make more I'll find another way.

I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night performing 50 blocks on a single patient/yr.
 
Disciple said:
Thanks,

If I need to make more I'll find another way.

I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night performing 50 blocks on a single patient/yr.

But believe me, perform 4 blocks on said pt/year, and all his peeps,

and you'll sleep very,very well.

Not counting the incessant beeps you'll receive after hours for refills of mepergan/soma/percocet/cough syrup/percodan/flexeril/valium/ambien CR/codeine/Durapatch/Dura-on-my-johnson/Dura-anywhere-I-can-put-it-and-get-a-buz/......

again, sadly, there is no utopia....
 
Disciple said:
Thanks,

If I need to make more I'll find another way.

I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night performing 50 blocks on a single patient/yr.

If you are doing the only thing that can help them, why not? I agree dealing with narcs is tough and it can be frustrating taking care of chronic pain problems that dont seem to get any better, but the value of a truly dedicated pain doc is great, I believe, and while maybe not worth their salaries at times (750K/year 😱 ) if they can help patients, they are sorely needed.

I think that more research in the efficacy of regional and pain medicine coupled with the future of central pain control (precedex, etc) will lead us away from the dirty street drugs and hit-or-miss blocks and towards a more satisfying specialty.

(I kind of like pain medicine, btw)
 
Idiopathic said:
If you are doing the only thing that can help them, why not?

I have no problem with that, especially in the elderly, generally immobile/unable to exercise population.

Unfortunately, there are no real standards to be held accountable to in pain medicine, only suggested "practice guidelines". This occasionally leads to the aformentioned number of blocks in certain pts by some practicioners.

As far as "practice-guidelines" go, I would say ISIS comes closest to the real deal.
 
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