Xigris14

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 8, 2008
85
12
Status
Attending Physician
Any word on Oncology fellowship at LSU-Shrev, Oregon, NYU, SanFran?

Curious about scope, such as only oncology or other areas of OMFS such as craniofacial,trauma,cosmetics...

Which one is considered the best and by what standards?

Any info appreciated.

Could not find any info about LSU-Shrev, little about NYU/India oncology fellowship.
 

Turnpike

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Aug 2, 2002
70
0
Visit site
Status
As far as I know, correct me if im wrong:
UCSF = cancer without free flaps
Oregon = lots of cancer with flaps
LSU Shreveport = newer fellowship with flaps
NYU = no clue

I think at this point if you are serious about a fellowship its time to start calling up directors and ask them personally. Some of these spots get filled up 2-3 years in advance.
 

2thguy82

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 6, 2007
91
0
Status
As far as I know, correct me if im wrong:
UCSF = cancer without free flaps
Oregon = lots of cancer with flaps
LSU Shreveport = newer fellowship with flaps
NYU = no clue

I think at this point if you are serious about a fellowship its time to start calling up directors and ask them personally. Some of these spots get filled up 2-3 years in advance.
Michigan = lots of cancer with free flaps
Jackson Memorial Hospital (Miami) = lots of cancer. Some with free flaps, some without
 
About the Ads

54807

Guest
10+ Year Member
Oct 25, 2004
496
1
Status
Academic Administration
Some of these spots get filled up 2-3 years in advance.
Are you saying there are some studs that are securing spots in the 2nd or 3rd year of residency? :laugh:

Or those that have finished and are perhaps finishing up a 'lesser' fellowship or research just waiting for their spot?
 

southcalOMS

10+ Year Member
Nov 17, 2008
2
0
Status
Every program is different I'm sure, and they probably vary year to year.

Just as info: When I externed at Michigan, they had a fellow who had just finished his residency months earlier. They supposedly had the following year already filled as well, but there was no fellow the year before.

I'm not sure about the circumstances surrounding any of it, but they're the real deal for oncology, so who knows how it all got put together each year, given a vacancy in the position at one point.
 

InMyCrossHairs

#1 GUNNER
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 8, 2005
164
0
Status
Any word on Oncology fellowship at LSU-Shrev, Oregon, NYU, SanFran?

Curious about scope, such as only oncology or other areas of OMFS such as craniofacial,trauma,cosmetics...

Which one is considered the best and by what standards?

Any info appreciated.

Could not find any info about LSU-Shrev, little about NYU/India oncology fellowship.
"not doing a fellowship. Currently in reidency doing full scope. No need for fellowship."

For someone not doing a fellowship, you show alot of interest.
 

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Every program is different I'm sure, and they probably vary year to year.

Just as info: When I externed at Michigan, they had a fellow who had just finished his residency months earlier. They supposedly had the following year already filled as well, but there was no fellow the year before.

I'm not sure about the circumstances surrounding any of it, but they're the real deal for oncology, so who knows how it all got put together each year, given a vacancy in the position at one point.
I'm the Michigan fellow until 2010, and (I think) the only one on this forum so I'll give my quick and dirty overview of places. Michigan is a 2-year fellowship in both ablative and free/regional flaps. They didn't take a fellow last year since they had transitioned from 2 residents per year to 3 and wanted to see how the case loads per resident were affected. I think they're plenty busy and could maybe afford a 4th resident. We're doing 2-3 cancer cases per week right now, some small and some big. 3 fibulas last month, radial forearm last week, pedicled lat today. 27 neck dissections in my first 6 months which is on par with other fellowships. I spend most Wednesday mornings in the micro rat lab sewing vessels under the microscope with a plastic surgeon who teaches micro to the OMFS residents, Plastics, etc. Some of the fellows from other programs spend a week with him 1 on 1 learning micro skills. Like most places, cancer and flaps come in waves. I have been pleasantly surprised at how busy Michigan is with cancer, since you don't hear as much about this fellowship. One of the reasons it's 2 years is because I will spend about 10 months rotating with radiation oncology, med onc, skull base, general surgical oncology, plastics, etc....nice for someone planning on academics. Ann Arbor is a great small town with lots for kids and families.

Shreveport is a 1-year fellowship in ablative and free flaps. The current fellow is a good friend and he says they're pretty busy. I seem to remember the case log I saw was similar to here at Michigan, but 1 year without off-service rotations. Shreveport is not the funnest city, but I could live anywhere for only a year.

Jacksonville, FL probably has the highest case load. Probably about 60 free flaps per year, about 50-60 neck dissections. Rui Fernandes is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. The residents love him and play intramural soccer with him on weekends. Jacksonville is not a bad place to live.

NYU- you spend 6 months in NYC and 6 months in India. The current fellow just came back from India and was incredibly busy doing 6-10 cases per week, some with free flaps. I think there are other fellows that rotate there, so there is a risk of the experience getting diluted if you're the 3rd person on a case. I'm not sure who is doing the free flaps in NYC for OMFS, possibly plastics.

Oregon- historically has been a 1-year fellowship in ablative only, although they have orthopedic hand surgeons who do their free flaps. Rumor is that they will soon change to 2 years and offer free flap training also. Dierks is also one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. He has 2 other partners that do cancer also (one more than the other). 2 of the attendings are dual-boarded in OMFS and ENT. Portland is a nice place, but maybe expensive if you have a family.

Maryland is the one place that has accepted fellows years earlier than other fellowships. When I started searching for a fellowship at the beginning of my 5th year (of a 6-year residency), they had already accepted someone for my year. It's a 2-year fellowship with a 1st-year and 2nd-year fellow. Historically the 1st year does the ablative and the 2nd year reconstructs, but I think there is some crossover. They also rotate with a former fellow in PA who does laryngectomies and thyroids.

I don't know much about San Francisco. It's ablative only. Brian Schmidt is also a very nice guy and one of the smartest guys you'll meet. He has a busy research lab with some big-time cancer research at the molecular level. San Francisco is very expensive.

On one hand, cancer fellowships are not that competitive if you consider that few people are interested. On the other hand, there are only a handful of fellowships out there. Last year there were about 16 people applying for 6 fellowships, so I think the interest is growing in OMFS.
 

uclaguy

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Nov 14, 2004
83
0
Status
I'm the Michigan fellow until 2010, and (I think) the only one on this forum so I'll give my quick and dirty overview of places. Michigan is a 2-year fellowship in both ablative and free/regional flaps. They didn't take a fellow last year since they had transitioned from 2 residents per year to 3 and wanted to see how the case loads per resident were affected. I think they're plenty busy and could maybe afford a 4th resident. We're doing 2-3 cancer cases per week right now, some small and some big. 3 fibulas last month, radial forearm last week, pedicled lat today. 27 neck dissections in my first 6 months which is on par with other fellowships. I spend most Wednesday mornings in the micro rat lab sewing vessels under the microscope with a plastic surgeon who teaches micro to the OMFS residents, Plastics, etc. Some of the fellows from other programs spend a week with him 1 on 1 learning micro skills. Like most places, cancer and flaps come in waves. I have been pleasantly surprised at how busy Michigan is with cancer, since you don't hear as much about this fellowship. One of the reasons it's 2 years is because I will spend about 10 months rotating with radiation oncology, med onc, skull base, general surgical oncology, plastics, etc....nice for someone planning on academics. Ann Arbor is a great small town with lots for kids and families.

Shreveport is a 1-year fellowship in ablative and free flaps. The current fellow is a good friend and he says they're pretty busy. I seem to remember the case log I saw was similar to here at Michigan, but 1 year without off-service rotations. Shreveport is not the funnest city, but I could live anywhere for only a year.

Jacksonville, FL probably has the highest case load. Probably about 60 free flaps per year, about 50-60 neck dissections. Rui Fernandes is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. The residents love him and play intramural soccer with him on weekends. Jacksonville is not a bad place to live.

NYU- you spend 6 months in NYC and 6 months in India. The current fellow just came back from India and was incredibly busy doing 6-10 cases per week, some with free flaps. I think there are other fellows that rotate there, so there is a risk of the experience getting diluted if you're the 3rd person on a case. I'm not sure who is doing the free flaps in NYC for OMFS, possibly plastics.

Oregon- historically has been a 1-year fellowship in ablative only, although they have orthopedic hand surgeons who do their free flaps. Rumor is that they will soon change to 2 years and offer free flap training also. Dierks is also one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. He has 2 other partners that do cancer also (one more than the other). 2 of the attendings are dual-boarded in OMFS and ENT. Portland is a nice place, but maybe expensive if you have a family.

Maryland is the one place that has accepted fellows years earlier than other fellowships. When I started searching for a fellowship at the beginning of my 5th year (of a 6-year residency), they had already accepted someone for my year. It's a 2-year fellowship with a 1st-year and 2nd-year fellow. Historically the 1st year does the ablative and the 2nd year reconstructs, but I think there is some crossover. They also rotate with a former fellow in PA who does laryngectomies and thyroids.

I don't know much about San Francisco. It's ablative only. Brian Schmidt is also a very nice guy and one of the smartest guys you'll meet. He has a busy research lab with some big-time cancer research at the molecular level. San Francisco is very expensive.

On one hand, cancer fellowships are not that competitive if you consider that few people are interested. On the other hand, there are only a handful of fellowships out there. Last year there were about 16 people applying for 6 fellowships, so I think the interest is growing in OMFS.

Where are you headed after you finish the fellowship?
 

Xigris14

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 8, 2008
85
12
Status
Attending Physician
Appreciate your time explaining all those programs.
Sounds great if you can afford 1-2 years in fellowship with loan repayment? Great opportunity with good surgical experience.

Best of luck
 

PAJain

10+ Year Member
Dec 25, 2008
35
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Toof! you forgot Knoxville and Jackson Memorial/Miami. When I interviewed at Miami I was very impressed with their fellowship. Tons of benign and malignant pathology. One of the highest loads of regional flaps compared to the programs that you listed. Unfortunately, they don't do any free flaps. Plus, I think Dr. Marx would be an amazing person to study under. I didn't interview at Knoxville, but I hear they do over 120+ neck dissections per year. This unfortunately is a fellowship that is also lacking in free flaps.
 

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I didn't comment on Knoxville and Miami because I didn't interview there and don't know much about them. But Carlson is also a really nice guy based on a few conversations with him.
 
About the Ads

PAJain

10+ Year Member
Dec 25, 2008
35
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Toof...what are your recommendations for someone interested in training in microsvacular but not as interested in oncologic surgery!

It seems that a lot of the OMFS that go on to train in plastics quickly become leaders in plastics. I'm surprised to see so many people in OMFS that still go on to train in plastics even with the quickly expanding scope of OMFS. I wonder if people jumping ship today is based on residents having narrow clinical training (i.e., mandibles, orthognathics, benign pathology) and not thinking highly of the specialty, or if its just pure ego.

http://www.umm.edu/doctors/eduardo_d_rodriguez.html
http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/surgery/faculty_detail.aspx?name=st_hilaire_hugo
 
Last edited:

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Toof...what are your recommendations for someone interested in training in microsvacular but not as interested in oncologic surgery!

It seems that a lot of the OMFS that go on to train in plastics quickly become leaders in plastics. I'm surprised to see so many people in OMFS that still go on to train in plastics even with the quickly expanding scope of OMFS. I wonder if people jumping ship today is based on residents having narrow clinical training (i.e., mandibles, orthognathics, benign pathology) and not thinking highly of the specialty, or if its just pure ego.

http://www.umm.edu/doctors/eduardo_d_rodriguez.html
http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/surgery/faculty_detail.aspx?name=st_hilaire_hugo

I'm not aware of too many oral surgeons who go into plastics and "quickly become leaders." Having a pretty website and getting on the AO lecture circuit doesn't necessarily make a leader. As far as doing micro without oncology, somebody has to make a hole before you can fill it with your flap.
 

PAJain

10+ Year Member
Dec 25, 2008
35
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
It seems like Shreveport, Michigan, Maryland, and Jacksonville are great places to train in microvascular. When do you think is a good time to contact programs with your CV to show interest in pursuing a fellowship? Do you also think that these fellowships would be turned off by an applicant flat out saying, ablative surgery is cool but I would rather be under the scope!

Also, these fellowships have all been around for a few years and some longer. When I was going on interviews for residency I never met a previous UCSF, Shreveport, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Miami fellow. It seemed that only Oregon, Maryland, and Michigan has people in academia and they all had stayed on at the programs where they completed their fellowships as attendings. Are most of the people doing these fellowships going into private practice! If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of being fellowship trained.
 
Last edited:

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
It's never too early to show your interest. In general, I would start talking with program directors during the 1st half of your 5th year (if on a 6-year track), since some programs start interviewing at the end of that academic year.

Portland's fellowship has been around for about 16 years, yet only about 5 of them are still in academics. The Maryland guys tend to stay in academics. Michigan is a "young" fellowship and 3 out 5 fellows have stayed in academics, a 4th went back to the military. Knoxville is young also, so it's tough to say. I don't really consider Miami to be an oncology fellowship like the others. It's mainly benign disease...they only do a handful of neck dissections and make a point to avoid free flaps for some reason.
 

Bitters

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 3, 2003
82
1
Visit site
Status
It seems like Shreveport, Michigan, Maryland, and Jacksonville are great places to train in microvascular. When do you think is a good time to contact programs with your CV to show interest in pursuing a fellowship? Do you also think that these fellowships would be turned off by an applicant flat out saying, ablative surgery is cool but I would rather be under the scope!

Also, these fellowships have all been around for a few years and some longer. When I was going on interviews for residency I never met a previous UCSF, Shreveport, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Miami fellow. It seemed that only Oregon, Maryland, and Michigan has people in academia and they all had stayed on at the programs where they completed their fellowships as attendings. Are most of the people doing these fellowships going into private practice! If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of being fellowship trained.

Thats because its difficult to find a job with the training that you will have. Its not impossible to do oncology/microvascular in private practice, but you have to realize the time involved with no residents to shoulder a lot of the responsibility. Burn out is a huge factor, as well as the opportunity cost.

There are just not alot of academic positions available for this training in OMFS. There are difficulties in gaining priviliges. Most ENT/Plastics depts will fight like hell to stop oral surgery. The academic centers that have gained these privilges are already overloaded with staff.

Your options are to join the faculty at a program with no oncology/micro history at fight for it with no guarantee for success, ie Alabama several years ago, or find some out of the way hospital in BFE that could care less what you do.
 

BobbyBigSteps

10+ Year Member
Feb 2, 2009
25
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Does anyone here know who offers a cosmetic fellowship for single degree guys? Is there a list of them anywhere?
 

jiggapigga

Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 1, 2005
60
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Does oregon have the craniofacial fellowship anymore?

Anyone here consider OMFS + Plastics ? i see this combination more so than OMFS + ENT ..
 

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Does oregon have the craniofacial fellowship anymore?

Anyone here consider OMFS + Plastics ? i see this combination more so than OMFS + ENT ..
I'm not aware of Oregon ever having a craniofacial fellowship for OMFS, there has been one for plastics.

Plastics is shorter than ENT. You have to ask yourself what you learn in ENT/Plastics that you don't learn in OMFS +/- fellowship in half the time.
 

Flappy McSuture

10+ Year Member
Dec 28, 2008
22
3
Status
Post Doc
Fort Worth, TX to be faculty at one of the hospitals affiliated with the UTSW/Parkland residency.

So Toof, I'm assuming you're going out to Ft. Worth to do Malignant Path now that Arce left? Will you be out in Weatherford as well, or just at JPS?
 

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
3,873
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
So Toof, I'm assuming you're going out to Ft. Worth to do Malignant Path now that Arce left? Will you be out in Weatherford as well, or just at JPS?
I will pick up where Arce left off, with the addition of free flaps. I'll be in JPS and Arlington.
 

omsdread

10+ Year Member
Oct 2, 2008
7
0
Status
Is moonlighting generally allowed or even practical during a fellowship. How are you guys coping with the loan paybacks?
 

2thguy82

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 6, 2007
91
0
Status
I'm starting my OMFS residency next year and am of course interested in fellowship opportunities. Is there a straight up list on any organization websites or something of the accredited fellowships in each respective sub-specialty?? I just know of the big ones by word of mouth, but I'd like to check out more. I'm sure there are some I'm unaware of....
 

4bq

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 8, 2005
24
0
Status
For those that are doing fellowships: when did you 'extern/visit' the program(s) you were interested in?

How many months of OMFS service is recommended before you start externing at the programs?

Did you take the same route you did in D-school by contacting the programs directly, etc.?
 
About the Ads