Female residents and nurses

[cbrons]

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I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

Yes.

My wife is very fond of saying that the biggest enemy of a woman is another woman.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

There was a recent psych study that talked about this. The TL;DR is that women were found to be treated with more incivility from other women than they were from men.

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/apl0000289

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

This is obviously the fault of the patriarchy. We need some Grrrrl Power!

But yes, I've seen this as well.

 

[Psai]

Inb4socialjusticewarriorfeminist claiming that common experience is not actually a thing.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

When i was a nurse i think i only went to the attending when the intern/resident was getting rocked by an emergency or 3.

But i did notice female nurses are much more aggressive than me and my other male coworkers when it comes to nurse to doc communications.

 

[Goro]

I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

Estrogen poisoning. Particularly malignant in a research lab setting. Didn't matter if there was a hierarchy or not...techs, grad students and post-docs all treated each other viciously. I've dated one of each and the phenotype held true.

 

[feb14]

It happened to me a couple of times. I think it depends on the nurse, some nurses are highly respectful and others look at female residents as enemies ☹️

 

[Crayola227]

Estrogen poisoning. Particularly malignant in a research lab setting. Didn't matter if there was a hierarchy or not...techs, grad students and post-docs all treated each other viciously. I've dated one of each and the phenotype held true.

yes but it frequently comes up that some women have more testosterone relative to others, and this seems to have an effect on behavior

did any of those women have mustaches?

but no seriously, I have always said I am a high testosterone woman, as evidenced by my ring finger longer than my index, a very high sex drive, and tendency to try to get into bar fights

this is why I seek positions of power

 

[Psai]

yes but it frequently comes up that some women have more testosterone relative to others, and this seems to have an effect on behavior

did any of those women have mustaches?

but no seriously, I have always said I am a high testosterone woman, as evidenced by my ring finger longer than my index, a very high sex drive, and tendency to try to get into bar fights

this is why I seek positions of power

hello there

 

[DokterMom]

Inb4socialjusticewarriorfeminist claiming that common experience is not actually a thing.

InB4MGTOW mansplains that because it's women doing it to other women it can't be misogyny.












And inB4MGTOW makes some crack about how "women doing it to other women" is something he'd like to see.

 

[MediCane2006]

This is absolutely a real thing....women bully other women to a discouraging degree. Probably true in many fields but definitely in medicine.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Yes.

My wife is very fond of saying that the biggest enemy of a woman is another woman.

100% agree.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[SaraRN]

I’ve noticed that nurses are much more likely to go over the head of residents (e.g. by calling the attending) if the resident in question is a female.

What’s funny about this is that it is usually a female nurse doing this to a female resident.

I’ve only had a nurse go over my head and call my attending once as a male resident, and it was during my second week of reaidency.

Anyone else noticed this?

MICU nurse here. I’m thrilled when the resident is a woman. I’m so much more likely to have a real conversation with them and feel like I’m heard.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I’m baffled that the OP is just noticing this as it’s so common as to be the norm.

Several theories but most are related to competition for resources and jealousy.

 

[DokterMom]

I’m baffled that the OP is just noticing this as it’s so common as to be the norm.

Several theories but most are related to competition for resources and jealousy.

There's also the fact that women are so widely marginalized, that a woman wanting to NOT be marginalized or 'lumped in' with the marginalized group has to in effect, say "I'm not like them" and join in the disparagement.

 

[MediCane2006]

There's also the fact that women are so widely marginalized, that a woman wanting to NOT be marginalized or 'lumped in' with the marginalized group has to in effect, say "I'm not like them" and join in the disparagement.

Are you saying the reason women are mean to other women is to try and fit in with the boys? I don’t accept this at all. Especially because what OP is discussing is female nurses being nasty to female doctors (which, in my experience, usually stems from pettiness/jealousy, especially if the female doc is attractive). It has nothing to do with females being marginalized.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Are you saying the reason women are mean to other women is to try and fit in with the boys? I don’t accept this at all. Especially because what OP is discussing is female nurses being nasty to female doctors (which, in my experience, usually stems from pettiness/jealousy, especially if the female doc is attractive). It has nothing to do with females being marginalized.

My wife has always believed there is a large element of nurses being mad that a woman thought she was too good to be a nurse and so became a doctor instead.

 

[DokterMom]

Are you saying the reason women are mean to other women is to try and fit in with the boys? I don’t accept this at all. Especially because what OP is discussing is female nurses being nasty to female doctors (which, in my experience, usually stems from pettiness/jealousy, especially if the female doc is attractive). It has nothing to do with females being marginalized.

Actually, that's not my original idea:

Why Women Bully Each Other at Work - The Atlantic

 

[BigRedBeta]

Totally a thing.

Peds residencies are notorious for having it happen. You had to just laugh at it because it wasn't going to change and the dichotomy was so large that even incremental changes weren't going to have much of an impact. We're talking about female residents getting paged for every gastric residual in the NICU while on call (which since the babies are on staggered schedules means some cohort of babies is getting fed every hour) vs male residents getting 25+ verbal orders to either hold feeds or refeed and continue when they woke up in the morning.

On my peds cardiology month, I started writing all the orders for my co-resident after she had 6 different orders just get ignored completely. Never had an issues the rest of the month.

It probably sticks out more in Peds because there are fewer male residents

 

[Keladry]

Really depends on the institution and the field (and maybe the part of the country). Where I did med school, yes. Where I'm doing residency, at all of 2 weeks in, haven't seen it so far - the nurses have been really ridiculously helpful, carry out orders promptly, ask me questions/offer suggestions if something doesn't seem right/I ordered the completely wrong thing, etc.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My wife has always believed there is a large element of nurses being mad that a woman thought she was too good to be a nurse and so became a doctor instead.

My wife is a peds nurse and said she sees this all the time.

 

[sunshinefl]

On this topic, I keep wondering when it comes time for clinical rotations and residency, if disclosing that I was/am an RN to the nursing staff would make them relate to me more or hate me even more?? Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

Edit: add skipped word

 

[girlofgrace7]

Where I trained in peds, I felt like it was a huge spectrum. There were absolutely nurses who took male residents more seriously (for that matter, patients do the exact same thing...I can't count the number of times I've had patients look to the male nurse or intern for an answer or say "the nurse just walked in" right after I finished introducing myself as "Doctor" and explaining my role). There were also a lot of nurses who flirted incessantly with male residents and often made them uncomfortable. However, I also felt like there were female nurses that I knew I could count on and who always had my back. Although some female nurses are just catty, with most of the nurses, it's about whether you listen to them and whether there's mutual respect (though self-confidence definitely plays a role). Female residents can be just as catty as the nurses.

The above poster mentioning the differences in NICU calls may have been picking up on a different issue; oftentimes nurses are more willing to call residents that are nice to them. I was once on a team with two male residents who made a habit of yelling at/being rude to nurses or neglecting their pages. If I was on call on a given day, the nurses would purposely save as many questions/concerns as possible until the guys had left for the day and then flood me with calls, or they would page me on "accident" about the others' patients when the guys were there so they could try to avoid talking directly to them. It made for a miserable month, but I understood why they did it.

 

[solitarius]

I object to this thread.

Women bully men too. How do you explain all the timid nu-males roaming the medical profession?

 

[Psai]

On this topic, I keep wondering when it comes time for clinical rotations and residency, if disclosing that I was/am an RN to the nursing staff would make them relate to me more or hate me even more?? Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

Edit: add skipped word

Don't do it

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Don't do it

Precisely. They will hate you more because you used to be one of them and then decided it wasn’t “good enough” for you.


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[sunshinefl]

Don't do it

Precisely. They will hate you more because you used to be one of them and then decided it wasn’t “good enough” for you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I thought it could go either way... glad that I asked. I will not mention it. Thank you both for answering.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I object to this thread.

Women bully men too. How do you explain all the timid nu-males roaming the medical profession?

 

[HIPAAHasOneP]

On this topic, I keep wondering when it comes time for clinical rotations and residency, if disclosing that I was/am an RN to the nursing staff would make them relate to me more or hate me even more?? Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

Edit: add skipped word

There are so many different medical students, residents, and fellows that rotate through, that I can't imagine most nurses are going to care either way. Those who do care probably won't remember, anyway. I've worked with so many different medical students and residents over the years, and I honestly cannot remember a single name much less anything about their lives. I remember a few fellows, and that's probably because they later became faculty.

I don't understand nurses who are rude to medical students and residents. I was always respectful to them. The fellows who later became faculty remembered the nurses who were respectful to them when they were trainees and the nurses who were not. It pays to treat people the way you want to be treated, which probably explains why I have always had good relationships with physicians.

 

[dpmd]

I thought it could go either way... glad that I asked. I will not mention it. Thank you both for answering.

I don't advise you go around telling everyone about it, but for me the way that I never acted too good to do something ended up sort of outing my nursing history. Maybe that had something to do with why I never really had issues with the female nurses going over my head or acting nasty to me. Also, the number of calls I got in training for stupid **** was exceeded by real stuff plus invitations to come eat at their potlucks. Now I am not saying that every woman who has ever run into trouble with other females did so because of something they did, but I have seen female docs act snooty and try to put others in their place rudely (that might be because they are trying to be one of the guys). The residents change but often the nurses remain the same. So it may be that some of these women left a bad impression on the nurses and others get stuck trying to reverse that impression (and those who don't necessarily understand what the nurses are going through might not do much to improve it through no real fault of their own).