FEP and ADSEP

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Let me preface this by saying that I am comfortably within standards despite having to be taped for my weight every single PRT cycle.

I was talking to a staff physician who said he received notification that he was being administratively seperated for being overweight - he lost the weight and is fine now. He had 16 years in and didn't want to lose his benefits.

But that got me to thinking: That would be on honorable discharge, right? What's to stop someone from sticking out their gut to fail the tape? It seems like that would be utilized as a way out for a lot of folks. Or do they only try to kick out senior folks to keep them honest about receiving retirement and keep the youngsters in until they pay back their commitment?

I have no plans to do this, I'm just wondering.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Let me preface this by saying that I am comfortably within standards despite having to be taped for my weight every single PRT cycle.

I was talking to a staff physician who said he received notification that he was being administratively seperated for being overweight - he lost the weight and is fine now. He had 16 years in and didn't want to lose his benefits.

But that got me to thinking: That would be on honorable discharge, right? What's to stop someone from sticking out their gut to fail the tape? It seems like that would be utilized as a way out for a lot of folks. Or do they only try to kick out senior folks to keep them honest about receiving retirement and keep the youngsters in until they pay back their commitment?

I have no plans to do this, I'm just wondering.

This came up recently elsewhere, individual has to finish obligation but failed to select for residency and will fail to select for LCDR.

I also deployed with a subspecialty pediatrician with lengthy service who is wider than tall and always wondered what the deal was.

 

[NavyFP]

If you have an obligation, they won't adsep you. As Gastrapathy alluded, you won't get GME or be promoted, but you will finish your time.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

If you have an obligation, they won't adsep you. As Gastrapathy alluded, you won't get GME or be promoted, but you will finish your time.

It seems crappy that they'd adsep a guy with 16years but not one with 3 years. I guess whatever lets them get the most out of someone with the minimum investment . . . .

 

[IgD]

This is a bit of a whine but the other side of this is they will work you 10-12 hours a day, not give you time to exercise then hold you to standards.

 

[rogershru2]

It seems crappy that they'd adsep a guy with 16years but not one with 3 years. I guess whatever lets them get the most out of someone with the minimum investment . . . .

Welcome to the military...

 

[pharm B]

Welcome to the military...

I was formerly a nuclear operator in the Navy, and thought you might appreciate our nickname for this program.

"Food for freedom"

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

This is a bit of a whine but the other side of this is they will work you 10-12 hours a day, not give you time to exercise then hold you to standards.

Yeah, the staff in question was the only one in his subspecialty at the hospital and would have to work those hours and just couldn't work out.

 

[DrMetal]

Yeah, the staff in question was the only one in his subspecialty at the hospital and would have to work those hours and just couldn't work out.

The problem with the whole PRT/PFA administration in the Navy is that it can be a very subjective process. The coordinator is usually some HM1 at your command; if he/she like you, you may get a little lee-way. Moreover, if you're chain likes/dislikes you, they may be less/more likely to nail you for a failure. There no outside mechanism of making sure that the command nails someone who failed (as there is in the case of drug testing). So if you're considered a 'good guy', a PRT/PFA failure is oftern swept under the rug. On the other hand, if you're a 'difficult' member, the command can use it to nail you. My guess is that's the case with the staff in question, am i right??? I've never seen anyone with that much time get dinged for prt failures, and I've seen a lot of senior fatties! (not saying this is fair btw, just saying that's the way it is. If the Navy really wants to legitamize the process, they should require "outside" observers for the whole prt/pfa process)

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

My guess is that's the case with the staff in question, am i right??? I've

No. This guy was voted best teacher of the year for all of the residents. He was liked by patients and is a good guy.

 

[DrMetal]

No. This guy was voted best teacher of the year for all of the residents. He was liked by patients and is a good guy.

Really? And he's being processed out by his own chain? given an adverse fitrep? That's strange. Well, maybe the Navy really is crackin down. But as of yet, I haven't seen any big-navy oversight over the whole prt/pfa-failure procedure; it's still on the command to do it right.

 

[IgD]

No. This guy was voted best teacher of the year for all of the residents. He was liked by patients and is a good guy.

Navy medicine has a way of witch hunting people. The leadership sometimes is paranoid and insecure. When they see someone with any sign of weakness they pounce on it. Really short sighted the Navy probably desperately needs the physician you mentioned.

 

[mmcnamara]

This is a bit of a whine but the other side of this is they will work you 10-12 hours a day, not give you time to exercise then hold you to standards.

I am prior active duty enlisted Army (7 years, air defense artillery), and I will tell you what a real day is like. Get up at 4:30am, pt at 5:30am-6:30am, formation at 7:30am, at work sites at 8am, work til whenever (usually around 7 pm). If I got off before 7, I went to the gym or the track. I was a squad leader, so if I was lucky, I didn't have administrative paperwork to do at night at home. This was usually six days a week. There were many occasions when it was seven. Then there were the calls at 2-3am for drills or to check to see if the phone list was up to date (the first sergeant would call all of the platoon sergeants, who called all of the squad leaders, who called all of their soldiers) or to do a drug test. Of course, if we went in for a drug test or a drill, did we get to go home early? Absolutely not. We worked until 7 anyway. Someone can't pee on command? Take them for a run around the building a half a dozen times, singing cadences no less. We get a vaccination and your arm hurts? Then 50 pushups are in order. I haven't even mentioned going to the field for 2 weeks out of every month where I had to work 18-20 hours a day: manning the engagement control station, fixing the equipment, doing drills, moving from site to site, setting up camoflage, setting up barbed wire, organizing guard duty, being on guard duty (my longest stretch was 62 hours straight with no sleep; sleeping on guard duty was considered dereliction of duty), organizing chow, performing inspections, marching, marching, marching, generating after action reports, and going to meeting after meeting. Twelve hours a day...bah!

After I was discharged, I went to undergrad, then med school (which my military experience prepared me admirably for), and now I am in pathology residency with a hematopathology fellowship lined up. I am now considering returning to the military. Why? Because I have never encountered in the civilian sector the comraderie, the unit cohesiveness, or the opportunity for leadership and teaching that I had while I was in the military. Despite the BS and the bureaucracy, I had some of the best experiences of my life in the military. These qualities may not be as apparent in the medical field, as opposed to the combat field units, but I still believe that it is there.

It is unfortunate that so many of the physicians in the military are new (there is a shortage and lack of retention of experienced physicians, particularly specialists), and that they are only there because it was an easy way for them to get their school paid for with a stipend thrown in for living expenses. This is the absolutely wrong reason to go in the military. That is why I did not do the HPSP program and accepted the debt. I knew that the military will do what is good for the military, and I wanted to have choices, such as what residency I got and doing a fellowship. They will help me pay my student loans, provided that I go in for at least 2 years and apply every cent of ALL of the bonuses that I receive for those 2 years towards my student loans. I would get paid WAY less (the hematopathology fellow who graduated in June got a job for over 300k/yr). I could be deployed (been there, done that). I would have to relocate every 2-3 years (again, been there, done that; relocated 3 times in 7 years, not including deployment). I would have to run (which I despise) and work out at least 3 times a week. Are these things something that I can accept to have a chance to serve my country again? Absolutely.

The bottom line is that anyone in the military, including the physicians (those who did the HPSP program, and those who chose to make it a career) made the conscious decision to go in (or stay in). I applaud those who stay in to make it a career. However, everyone who goes in should accept that military regulations require that you be fit for duty, and this includes that you be physically fit and not overweight. Just because you are physicians shouldn't mean that you expect to be held to a different standard.

 

[mmcnamara]

This is a bit of a whine but the other side of this is they will work you 10-12 hours a day, not give you time to exercise then hold you to standards.

PS.
Get up earlier to do PT on your own. You can spare an extra 40 minutes out of your day.

 

[mmcnamara]

This is a bit of a whine but the other side of this is they will work you 10-12 hours a day, not give you time to exercise then hold you to standards.

I am prior active duty enlisted Army (7 years, air defense artillery), and I will tell you what a real day is like. Get up at 4:30am, pt at 5:30am-6:30am, formation at 7:30am, at work sites at 8am, work til whenever (usually around 7 pm). If I got off before 7, I went to the gym or the track. I was a squad leader, so if I was lucky, I didn't have administrative paperwork to do at night at home. This was usually six days a week. There were many occasions when it was seven. Then there were the calls at 2-3am for drills or to check to see if the phone list was up to date (the first sergeant would call all of the platoon sergeants, who called all of the squad leaders, who called all of their soldiers) or to do a drug test. Of course, if we went in for a drug test or a drill, did we get to go home early? Absolutely not. We worked until 7 anyway. Someone can't pee on command? Take them for a run around the building a half a dozen times, singing cadences no less. We get a vaccination and your arm hurts? Then 50 pushups are in order. I haven't even mentioned going to the field for 2 weeks out of every month where I had to work 18-20 hours a day: manning the engagement control station, fixing the equipment, doing drills, moving from site to site, setting up camoflage, setting up barbed wire, organizing guard duty, being on guard duty (my longest stretch was 62 hours straight with no sleep; sleeping on guard duty was considered dereliction of duty), organizing chow, performing inspections, marching, marching, marching, generating after action reports, and going to meeting after meeting. Twelve hours a day...bah!

After I was discharged, I went to undergrad, then med school (which my military experience prepared me admirably for), and now I am in pathology residency with a hematopathology fellowship lined up. I am now considering returning to the military. Why? Because I have never encountered in the civilian sector the comraderie, the unit cohesiveness, or the opportunity for leadership and teaching that I had while I was in the military. Despite the BS and the bureaucracy, I had some of the best experiences of my life in the military. These qualities may not be as apparent in the medical field, as opposed to the combat field units, but I still believe that it is there.

It is unfortunate that so many of the physicians in the military are new (there is a shortage and lack of retention of experienced physicians, particularly specialists), and that they are only there because it was an easy way for them to get their school paid for with a stipend thrown in for living expenses. This is the absolutely wrong reason to go in the military. That is why I did not do the HPSP program and accepted the debt. I knew that the military will do what is good for the military, and I wanted to have choices, such as what residency I got and doing a fellowship. They will help me pay my student loans, provided that I go in for at least 2 years and apply every cent of ALL of the bonuses that I receive for those 2 years towards my student loans. I would get paid WAY less (the hematopathology fellow who graduated in June got a job for over 300k/yr). I could be deployed (been there, done that). I would have to relocate every 2-3 years (again, been there, done that; relocated 3 times in 7 years, not including deployment). I would have to run (which I despise) and work out at least 3 times a week. Are these things something that I can accept to have a chance to serve my country again? Absolutely.

The bottom line is that anyone in the military, including the physicians (those who did the HPSP program, and those who chose to make it a career) made the conscious decision to go in (or stay in). I applaud those who stay in to make it a career. However, everyone who goes in should accept that military regulations require that you be fit for duty, and this includes that you be physically fit and not overweight. Just because you are physicians shouldn't mean that you expect to be held to a different standard.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Oh dear god, you'll be fun to work with. Self selecting for path was probably a good move.

I'm sorry but that is just total BS. There is so much f-ing around time, so many 4 day weekends, its just a different pace. Enlisted life is definitely not easy but give me a break.

BTW, you'd have been wiser not to have used your name. I'm sure a quick google search would find the path resident female named m mcnamara...yup.

 

[IgD]

That was a refreshing rant. I'm trying to picture the military pathologist version of Major Payne or the soup nazi guy from Seinfeld. "No CBC for you!"

 

[crazybrancato]

Mcnara, please post your 'rant' in the pros/cons thread (seriously), it'd be a better fit there.

BTW, you'd have been wiser not to have used your name. I'm sure a quick google search would find the path resident female named m mcnamara...yup.

Good point, how bout a GI fellow who has a bit too much time on his hands, posting here way too often and googling people, you don't think you've said things to give yourself up?

I know, how about a Peds res at NMCSD who starts a frikin thread about a senior staff member getting the boot for PRT failures?! Cmon you guys, start signing your names already . . .

 

[mmcnamara]

Oh dear god, you'll be fun to work with. Self selecting for path was probably a good move.

I'm sorry but that is just total BS. There is so much f-ing around time, so many 4 day weekends, its just a different pace. Enlisted life is definitely not easy but give me a break.

BTW, you'd have been wiser not to have used your name. I'm sure a quick google search would find the path resident female named m mcnamara...yup.

1. All the stuff in the first paragraph was something that I was forced to do myself and forced to do to the soldiers by my superiors. It is an unspoken rule among the NCOs that you NEVER let the troops know that the decision wasn't yours. That may make it seem like there was dissention among the NCOs or that you didn't agree with a superior. It may be true, but that is discussed behind closed doors, out of the hearing of the troops to maintain morale.
2. Unless you have been enlisted in a combat field unit, then don't criticize. These are the units that expect strict adherence to the regulations and do NOT deviate, unlike the medical corp, who don't even have to do pt every day on top of working 12 hours/day. Then when you fail the pt test or the tape, there's lots of complaining going on.
3. The military medicine forum is filled with military docs who used the military to pay for their education, however, they subsequently complain about their circumstances. Maybe your recruiter lied to you (a very likely scenario), but ultimately, it was YOU who made the decision. So SUCK IT UP. The events in paragraph 1 are to illustrate that it could be worse. Another intention that I had was to illustrate that despite the BS that the military puts you through, there are rewards (which I described in a later paragraph), and sometimes, those rewards can compensate for the rest.
4. Despite what I described, I actually enjoyed my time in the military. Hence, my obvious reenlistment (7 years), and my contemplation of reentering the military. The main reason that I got out was so that I could go to school. I don't need to go back in, even for loan repayment. I will have no problem paying back my loans, since I can get a paid 250k/year after my fellowship is over.
5. Selecting path was a direct result of getting an undergrad degree in medical technology not so that I could have a great lifestyle (although I'd be lying if I said that that wasn't a definite benefit).
6. I could give a s**t about you knowing who I am, and I could give a s**t if you agree with what I say. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. Very NCO-like. This is and has always been how I operate, and this quality was appreciated when I was in the military (I was promoted from E1 to NCO in under 3 years).

 

[244913]

Hey man, talk is cheap. You, being an obvious NCO-type, know this. So stop digging up old threads and blasting everyone with your NCO core values.

Join up. Then come and talk, when you're deployed for 15 months to OEF seeing sick call as a GMO. Or when you get back to the MEDCEN and find that there is no funding for research, or you're on call 24/7/365.

Ask yourself whether that is an intelligent use of your extensive education and experience, after the sacrifices you've made. If yes, then you should sit on IgD's comfy couch for a few nice, long bull sessions.

61N

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I know, how about a Peds res at NMCSD who starts a frikin thread about a senior staff member getting the boot for PRT failures?! Cmon you guys, start signing your names already . . .

What the . . . . . ? What'd I do to you? Get up off me, homeslice!

By the way, it's one thing to maybe give yourself away. It's another to spew that crap and give yourself away.

 

[IgD]

Once upon a time there was an enlisted service member who had to muster up enough courage to ask for help and he ended up on the psych unit. Lo and behold his enlisted leader came to the inpatient unit, made him stand at attention and proceeded to chew him out for asking for help. The individual said "all you need is the Army" and "I'm disappointed in you" for taking FDA approved doctor recommended recommendations. The leader went on to tell the individual to "suck it up". Unfortunately I think that's the kind of leadership style that we are seeing here in this thread. It also has a lot to do with why the military is struggling with so many mental health issues.

Of course Maj Payne is right that standards are standards and if someone is overweight they should be held accountable. The challenge of the astute leader is to weigh all the factors and look at each situation in its context. A Marine COL said that a combat veteran with an alcohol related incident should be looked at differently than a Marine with no combat experience who got drunk and caused a fight. It's the same thing with military medicine leadership. Why is that clinician overweight? Is he the sole specialist at a busy hospital on call 24-7 working 12 hour days? What exactly are the circumstances? Why did the situation occur? Why isn't the commander sitting down with that service member and mentoring/motivating him instead of initiating a witch hunt?

The other point is cost effectiveness. It's important to be physically fit etc, but what the military really needs is a caring competent physician who can get the mission done. Someone who can be a good mentor and inspire junior physicians to stay in the military medical system. Is it really worth losing a superstar player over something as superficial as a few extra pounds?

 

[pgg]

3. The military medicine forum is filled with military docs who used the military to pay for their education, however, they subsequently complain about their circumstances.

If you set aside the NCO chip on your shoulder for a few minutes and read through this forum, I think you'll find, on the whole, that most complaints involve the system failing the patients. And most of the complaints concerning how the military treats physicians have at least some merit.

You may have 7 years in the infantry - good for you - but you haven't spent a nanosecond in the medical corps. You don't know what you don't know. So do us all a favor and tone down the preachiness, eh?

 

[mmcnamara]

Hey man, talk is cheap. You, being an obvious NCO-type, know this. So stop digging up old threads and blasting everyone with your NCO core values.

Join up. Then come and talk, when you're deployed for 15 months to OEF seeing sick call as a GMO. Or when you get back to the MEDCEN and find that there is no funding for research, or you're on call 24/7/365.

Ask yourself whether that is an intelligent use of your extensive education and experience, after the sacrifices you've made. If yes, then you should sit on IgD's comfy couch for a few nice, long bull sessions.

61N

You missed the whole point. I already did my time, and I've BEEN deployed already, and I didn't have the luxury of having the most challenging thing of my day being dealing with the knuckleheads who went on sick call every day. I actually had to deal with them ALL day when they got back from sick call. And I was on call 24/7/365, just in a different capacity. I have been doing 24 to 30 hour shifts regularly since I was 18 with the only break being when I went to undergrad and my first 2 years of med school. Who do you think guards the posts? Who do you think has to man the equipment that has to be up and running 24/7/365? Did you not realize that this is on 24 hour shifts? Did you not realize that field units get called regularly to do drills in the middle of the night? Did you not realize that field units go to the field monthly, not for just a couple of weeks a year like the med corp; and that's when we are not deployed. Go to an enlisted barracks, and you will see a roster for 24 hour guard duty for every single day...in the barracks...in a US post/base as well as overseas bases (I've done both). You are talking out of your ass if you think you have even an inkling of what the duties and responsibilities of an enlisted soldier, particularly an NCO are, so stick with what you know.

You also missed my point, in that, I was actually saying that I LIKED my time in the service, despite the crap. By and large, the majority of the milmed docs here have the attitude of civilians who feel that they are entitled to better treatment, and who are bitter about not getting the training that they should have had. This is absolutely true...the military is screwing you professionally, and this will put you back years in your career. But the reality is that ALL military members get **** on, and you just have to make the best of it without all the complaining, because the reality is that 1) you really don't have it as bad as the non-med corp enlisted (or even officers) and 2) you are the only one to blame, since you were the one to make the decision to go in. It's no one else's fault that you thought that it would be a great idea, and it turned out to suck.

PS.
If you don't like my comments, feel free to not read them.

 

[mmcnamara]

Once upon a time there was an enlisted service member who had to muster up enough courage to ask for help and he ended up on the psych unit. Lo and behold his enlisted leader came to the inpatient unit, made him stand at attention and proceeded to chew him out for asking for help. The individual said "all you need is the Army" and "I'm disappointed in you" for taking FDA approved doctor recommended recommendations. The leader went on to tell the individual to "suck it up". Unfortunately I think that's the kind of leadership style that we are seeing here in this thread. It also has a lot to do with why the military is struggling with so many mental health issues.

Of course Maj Payne is right that standards are standards and if someone is overweight they should be held accountable. The challenge of the astute leader is to weigh all the factors and look at each situation in its context. A Marine COL said that a combat veteran with an alcohol related incident should be looked at differently than a Marine with no combat experience who got drunk and caused a fight. It's the same thing with military medicine leadership. Why is that clinician overweight? Is he the sole specialist at a busy hospital on call 24-7 working 12 hour days? What exactly are the circumstances? Why did the situation occur? Why isn't the commander sitting down with that service member and mentoring/motivating him instead of initiating a witch hunt?

The other point is cost effectiveness. It's important to be physically fit etc, but what the military really needs is a caring competent physician who can get the mission done. Someone who can be a good mentor and inspire junior physicians to stay in the military medical system. Is it really worth losing a superstar player over something as superficial as a few extra pounds?

Good points. First, any good NCO takes care of his soldiers. That means you NEVER mess with his/her chow, mail, or medical care. Any NCO who does is a poor leader. This was something that I never did, even if I thought they were malingering just to get out of pt at 5:30 am (I sympathized a little, because I hated running too). I never said a word of criticism, if they went to sick call. I also didn't give them the rest of the day off, unless the doctor said that they should be off.

Also, the first priority should always be patient care. If you have a great clinician, who is the best at what he does, and actually CHOOSES to deal with the military BS as a career, he is a gem, and everything should be done to RETAIN him, not make his life miserable. But military regulations are what they are. The provisions outlined in army regulation 600-9 (I'm not sure what it is for the other branches) actually states that the commander "may" institute separation procedings for overweight individuals. The word "may" is used throughout the whole regulation. So I guess it is at the discretion of the commander. Again, not necessarily fair (because what if your commander just doesn't like you), but "good enough for government work," I guess.

 

[rotatores]

Good points. First, any good NCO takes care of his soldiers. That means you NEVER mess with his/her chow, mail, or medical care. Any NCO who does is a poor leader. This was something that I never did, even if I thought they were malingering just to get out of pt at 5:30 am (I sympathized a little, because I hated running too). I never said a word of criticism, if they went to sick call. I also didn't give them the rest of the day off, unless the doctor said that they should be off.

Also, the first priority should always be patient care. If you have a great clinician, who is the best at what he does, and actually CHOOSES to deal with the military BS as a career, he is a gem, and everything should be done to RETAIN him, not make his life miserable. But military regulations are what they are. The provisions outlined in army regulation 600-9 (I'm not sure what it is for the other branches) actually states that the commander "may" institute separation procedings for overweight individuals. The word "may" is used throughout the whole regulation. So I guess it is at the discretion of the commander. Again, not necessarily fair (because what if your commander just doesn't like you), but "good enough for government work," I guess.

Man this thread got touchy rather quickly. Welcome to the forum mmcnamara🙂 You might wanna think about easing up a bit! Until you actually set foot in the MC community you might want to keep your thoughts to yourself! But feel free to discuss your experience as an enlisted type...😴

 

[mmcnamara]

Man this thread got touchy rather quickly. Welcome to the forum mmcnamara🙂 You might wanna think about easing up a bit! Until you actually set foot in the MC community you might want to keep your thoughts to yourself! But feel free to discuss your experience as an enlisted type...😴

No need for me to keep my thoughts to myself. I never say anything that I am afraid to say to anyone upfront. If it is bothersome to you, I will not be offended if you don't read it.

 

[backrow]

No need for me to keep my thoughts to myself. I never say anything that I am afraid to say to anyone upfront. If it is bothersome to you, I will not be offended if you don't read it.

One of the best features I found on forums was the 'Ignore posts from XXX user' function.

Wish I had one of those in non-cyber life to walk around with.

 

[TheGoose]

One of the best features I found on forums was the 'Ignore posts from XXX user' function.

...awesome

 

[notdeadyet]

One of the best features I found on forums was the 'Ignore posts from XXX user' function.

Yeah, but even if you ignore them, it doesn't stop old threads from showing up at the top. You foolishly click on the thread assuming some information relevant to the old thread has surfaced and then discover...

 

[pgg]

You missed the whole point. I already did my time

No, you haven't. You're not a military doctor. You don't know the first goddamn thing about practicing medicine in the military. Your posts repeatedly demonstrate absolute ignorance and obliviousness to all of the issues that can make practicing medicine suboptimal in the military.

you really don't have it as bad as the non-med corp enlisted (or even officers)

Yes, we spend less time sleeping in the dirt, and we don't kick in doors that might be hiding scumbags with RPKs. Our jobs are different. Marine Lance Corporals physically work hard and have jobs that are at times very dangerous. They risk a great deal and I have the utmost respect for them.

But stop pretending that the duties and responsibilities of a high-school-grad E3 rifleman are comparable to those of doctors. The appropriate comparison, if one is to be made, is between civilian doctors and military doctors.

People who read this forum and consider joining the military aren't choosing between enlisting in the Army to carry a rifle and going to medical school to be a doctor. They're deciding between going to medical school to be a civilian doctor and going to medical school to be a military doctor. Ergo, all your valuable experience slogging through the dirt doing honest work is not relevant in the slightest to any discussion on this forum.

If you don't like my comments, feel free to not read them.

No, I'll keep reading them, and I'll keep pointing out how cluelessly naive you are. If you don't like it, feel free not to read them.

Once again, to sum it up as clearly as I can:

Your experiences as a non-physician in the military are UTTERLY IRRELEVANT to any discussions regarding the practice of medicine in the military.

This is not to impugn your character or trivialize any sacrifices you may or may not have made during your 7 honorable years of active duty. It's to point out that you simply don't know WTF you're talking about.

Got it? (It's OK to read this post twice if you don't.)

While you're at it, stop patting yourself on the back for the cross you carried as a noble, downtrodden, underappreciated enlisted man. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 1500 Marines who endured a pair of deployments while somehow managing to irritate me less than you do.