Financial Aid/Planning when attending a Non-funded Program

[sarahkristy117]

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Okay so I was accepted into my top choice school.😀 It's not funded and does not offer much in the way of aid. 🙁

I'm married and my husband is willing to work full time while I'm in school. We are coming out of our undergrad with 120k in loans already.

If I were to stop going to school and work, our loans would come out of deferment and we would be unable to pay monthly payments.

If I got my master's, at an average salary, we would still be unable to pay the monthly payments.

The only way we could manage to survive is if we were making over 100k together each year. This way we could use 1/2 of our salary to pay loans until they were completely paid off. Otherwise the interest rates on a 120k loan would accumulate into another 120k over 30 years... meaning, we need to pay off extremely quickly to avoid that kind of debt.

My question is, is attending school to obtain my Doctorate worth it? It's going to cost me 125k without scholarships or grants. 😱

Would the amount of money I would be making offset the cost eventually?

What are the options for grants or scholarships outside of fully funded programs... without doing loads of research? (My interests don't really lie in research although I will be doing research for my dissertation)

I know, it's a loaded question but honestly, this program is PERFECT for me minus the cost and I so badly want to make it possible.

I need hope.... and cash... 🙄

 

[deleted176373]

Okay so I was accepted into my top choice school.😀 It's not funded and does not offer much in the way of aid. 🙁

I'm married and my husband is willing to work full time while I'm in school.

What are the options for grants or scholarships outside of fully funded programs... without doing loads of research? (My interests don't really lie in research although I will be doing research for my dissertation)

I know, it's a loaded question but honestly, this program is PERFECT for me minus the cost and I so badly want to make it possible.

I need hope.... and cash... 🙄

Have you considered the Military? No, I am not trying to recruit you, most people dismiss it out of hand anyway since they can't envision themselves in the military to begin with.

HPSP Scholarships from the Army would essentially erase any debt. Internship year in the military (all branches) pays over 50k per year. Even without the scholarship many branches of the service offer Loan Repayment programs and you might be eligible for an additional 3 year deferment on your loan while on active duty. The military LRP will pay up to $35k per year on your student loans, so if you take your $50k per year salary and throw a $35k loan payoff per year, you are doing really well as a young person.

I would look into HPSP and the military internship programs. Of course, if you don't think that the military is for you there are other opportunities where loan forgiveness programs exist.

Mark

PS - Assuming you are young, yes, regardless of circumstance getting your doctoral degree is worth it!

 

[Anon15]

NO!!!

Find a funded program. As a psychologist you will never be able to live comfortably and pay off that huge debt.

 

[sarahkristy117]

NO!!!

Find a funded program. As a psychologist you will never be able to live comfortably and pay off that huge debt.

So you're saying even if we make 100k per year together, we'll never be able to live comfortably? My theoretical plan would be to pay about 50% of our combined salary per year to loans.... thus getting rid of it in 5 years.

We'd still be living off of 50k per year which is a heck of a lot more than we are living off of now and most of the people anywhere in the world are living off of.

Some numbers on a five year plan...making a 100k and 50.42% going to debt.

Total Loan Amount $ 240,000.00
Monthly Loan Payment $ 4,729.67
Total Amount of Interest and Principal to be Repaid $ 283,780.43
Total Interest $ 43,780.43
Estimated Monthly Salary Based on 3% Annual Increment $ 9,380.00
Percent of Monthly Loan Payment over Estimated Monthly Salary 50.42 %

so is this completely crazy?? i think it could be done.


Thanks MarkP for some good options. I am thinking about the military but would like to avoid that....

 

[deleted176373]

NO!!!

Find a funded program. As a psychologist you will never be able to live comfortably and pay off that huge debt.

As much as I agree with you, the reality is not everyone can get into a funded program. That's the honest truth. I might add that Military Psychologists are paid extraordinarily well when compared to young psychologists fresh out of school.

The lowest paid Psychologist in the military is making $40884 taxable income plus BAH and BAS which are non-taxable, during INTERNSHIP.

Here are two Navy examples for internships (these are the only two locations Navy has):

Internship Bethesda: $40884 + $28284(BAH, Non-taxable) + $2424(BAS, Non-taxable) = $71592
Internship San Diego: $40884 + $30636(BAH, Non-taxable) + $2424(BAS, Non-taxable) = $73944

That really makes the income and benefits closer to someone making $80k or more per year. You won't get rich, but you aren't gonna starve either. Payback for the internship is 3 years post-licensure, but you leave with a solid salary history, an APA internship, and experience.

There are ways to do it, but you have to be smart about it. Don't go into this without a plan that you are confident you can execute.

Mark

PS - Although I make a solid business case above, the military is the wrong choice if its not something you want to do. Life in the military is great for those who embrace it and miserable for those who don't.

 

[sarahkristy117]

PS - Assuming you are young, yes, regardless of circumstance getting your doctoral degree is worth it!

I certainly hope this is true. I really doubt I'd get into a fully funded program, I'm a great applicant but not super outstanding to the extent where I'd outshine 200 other equally competitive applicants..

This whole process is frustrating, but I know that I want to do this and will make it work.

 

[deleted176373]

I certainly hope this is true. I really doubt I'd get into a fully funded program, I'm a great applicant but not super outstanding to the extent where I'd outshine 200 other equally competitive applicants..

This whole process is frustrating, but I know that I want to do this and will make it work.

Good Luck! Make the best of the opportunities you have, it's not gonna be easy and if you are paying, make sure it's a good program and then you need to get the best experience you can while you are there!

I agree with Jon Snow, my wife has a take home income of about $3000 every 2 weeks and her job "pays" $103,000 per year. So count on losing 1/3 to the tax man. I don't think that getting your degree is lunacy... it's just a matter of finding someone to pay for it.

Mark

 

[sarahkristy117]

Good Luck! Make the best of the opportunities you have, it's not gonna be easy and if you are paying, make sure it's a good program and then you need to get the best experience you can while you are there!

I agree with Jon Snow, my wife has a take home income of about $3000 every 2 weeks and her job "pays" $103,000 per year. So count on losing 1/3 to the tax man. I don't think that getting your degree is lunacy... it's just a matter of finding someone to pay for it.

Mark

Finding someone to pay for it.......

easier said than done. so let's say the military is not an option... i'm not seeing much for grants/scholarships besides research related things...

lunacy.. maybe it is lunacy. i'm just not sure how to attain this without paying for it considering the fully funded programs are basically out of reach.

😕

things are feeling grim.

well i'm still considering options...

 

[baylordude]

i'm not real familiar with the VA's reimbursement program, but I do know that there is a way to get reimbursed for up to 44k on your student loans if you meet certain criteria (it's been a long while since I read about it, so you might want to check it out🙂

Best!

 

[deleted176373]

Finding someone to pay for it.......

easier said than done. so let's say the military is not an option... i'm not seeing much for grants/scholarships besides research related things...

lunacy.. maybe it is lunacy. i'm just not sure how to attain this without paying for it considering the fully funded programs are basically out of reach.

😕

things are feeling grim.

well i'm still considering options...

I know this won't sit well, but what about an MSW program where you can work without supervision. It's likely that you could achieve this without going broke. I know that this is not what you "want" but it may be a valid compromise where you can achieve your professional goals while not going broke.

Mark

 

[baylordude]

Here is a link to the VA's reimbursement website.

http://www.va.gov/JOBS/Job_Benefits/continue_edu.asp#student

 

[sarahkristy117]

I know this won't sit well, but what about an MSW program where you can work without supervision. It's likely that you could achieve this without going broke.
Mark

Yeah... not sitting well. Most MSW programs are not what I'm looking for.

Ugh. @#$%^!!

I know that I want a PsyD eventually. Regardless of whether I go for a MA or MSW now..I'd go for a doctorate later. I just feel like if I can do that now, I'd be saving myself time... I guess losing a lot of money but.. wouldn't I be making 20k+ more a year for the rest of my life over how much I'd make with a MA or MSW?

I just feel so caught. If I take a year off and reapply to funded programs or other MSW or MA programs next year, I'm making my loans go out of deferment and taking a huge chance that will most likely end in disappointment (me not getting into funded PsyD's and settling for another program all the while paying huge chunks of a nonexistent salary on my undergrad loans which already would be incurring an enormous amount interest)...

so basically, i'm already broke. and i guess essentially screwed regarding the PsyD thing. I know I can't escape student loans but I guess I feel like if I follow what I truly believe to be what I'm supposed to do, I'll survive somehow...

I'm completely babbling and just venting and I'm sorry. I'm just heartbroken over this...

 

[myelin]

It sounds like you're in quite the predicament. However, I think this is a choice that only you and your husband can make. I'd get a better opinion on your finances and see if you could keep your head above water during and after your degree.

Have you spoken with your POI about grant options? What about applying to scholarships within the department? You could also take on a GA, RA, or TA position while in the program.

I may be in a similar situation as you next year. If I can't get into a funded program, I feel certain that I would be accepted into a non-funded one. Even though the non-funded program would put me into serious debt, it's something that I want to accomplish in my life, regardless of debt. If it's something that you truly want, you can find a way to make it work. Be sure to keep us posted as to what you decide to do. I wish you all of the best.

 

[sarahkristy117]

It sounds like you're in quite the predicament. However, I think this is a choice that only you and your husband can make. I'd get a better opinion on your finances and see if you could keep your head above water during and after your degree.

Have you spoken with your POI about grant options? What about applying to scholarships within the department? You could also take on a GA, RA, or TA position while in the program.

I may be in a similar situation as you next year. If I can't get into a funded program, I feel certain that I would be accepted into a non-funded one. Even though the non-funded program would put me into serious debt, it's something that I want to accomplish in my life, regardless of debt. If it's something that you truly want, you can find a way to make it work. Be sure to keep us posted as to what you decide to do. I wish you all of the best.

I appreciate your encouragement. This is something I truly want. I'm talking to a financial planner in a couple of weeks and will be meeting with fin.aid to discuss grants ... as well as making several phone calls to somewhat wealthy relatives (whats a tactful way to beg for money btw?)..

Thanks- I was crying previously and am now deescalating....

 

[deleted176373]

I know that I want a PsyD eventually. Regardless of whether I go for a MA or MSW now..I'd go for a doctorate later.

I just feel like if I can do that now, I'd be saving myself time... I guess losing a lot of money but.. wouldn't I be making 20k+ more a year for the rest of my life over how much I'd make with a MA or MSW?

I'm completely babbling and just venting and I'm sorry. I'm just heartbroken over this...

Well not always. Your degree does not always determine your salary, it can be a major determinant but don't fool yourself into believing that degree = salary. Don't get me wrong, I think that on average the doctoral degree holder will have a significant advantage over an MSW.

My wife and I have both made more money at times in our past than we have with our degrees (We both graduated with our undergrad degrees in 2006.) We have had some very, very, very good years... unfortunately not having a degree makes getting hired in a bad economy quite difficult. So this represents an investment in ourselves, she has decided to get a J.D. and I am working on a Ph.D. in hopes that education will help insulate us from economic downturns in the future. You are REALLY young, so don't be in such a rush to grow up. Sometimes the long road can be quite fun, I know I wouldn't change anything.

You can make good money as an MSW and you can run a private practice IIRC as an MSW, which can be quite lucrative. You might not be able to bill as much, but there are ways to still maximize profits with group therapy or niche markets.

There are loan repayment programs out there, but I would expect them to be competitive. Also there are opportunities while in some programs to get TA/RA positions. Part of the answer is what are you willing to compromise in order to attain your goals? Only you will know what is right for you.

Mark

PS - Keep thinking about that PsyD, a solution may yet present itself. (no, I don't have that kind of money. 😉 )

 

[CheetahGirl]

I may have no business on this posting, but food for thought for those stressing about not being able to pay for non-funded programs:

I went through the same dilemma last year. I had to hold out until I got my first choice (Funded!! Off the waitlist!!). It's sad to let an acceptance go after all that you've been through, but I ultimately decided it was the best thing for my future. I shed a lot of tears, but I thought: why live to work (why live to pay back a huge debt?!)? It didn't make sense to me. I was willing to jump back into the game and apply only to funded schools when my acceptance to my program went through.

Graduate school requires 110% dedication. When the days are long and hard, the fact that I have a stipend and funding helps motivate me. It's easy to put energy into a program that is putting energy into you (😉Just my opinion....nobody jump down my throat please.) At the end of the day, the funding helps to free my mindshare about the future.

There are PsyD programs that are funded...yes, they are more competitive, but perhaps you could take another year to make your application more competitive. Plus, it seems as though you have the acceptance thing down! (BTW congratulations on making it thus far.) It may not be easy, but you'll make the right decision...

 

[Anon15]

So you're saying even if we make 100k per year together, we'll never be able to live comfortably? My theoretical plan would be to pay about 50% of our combined salary per year to loans.... thus getting rid of it in 5 years.

We'd still be living off of 50k per year which is a heck of a lot more than we are living off of now and most of the people anywhere in the world are living off of.

Some numbers on a five year plan...making a 100k and 50.42% going to debt.

Total Loan Amount $ 240,000.00
Monthly Loan Payment $ 4,729.67
Total Amount of Interest and Principal to be Repaid $ 283,780.43
Total Interest $ 43,780.43
Estimated Monthly Salary Based on 3% Annual Increment $ 9,380.00
Percent of Monthly Loan Payment over Estimated Monthly Salary 50.42 %

so is this completely crazy?? i think it could be done.


Thanks MarkP for some good options. I am thinking about the military but would like to avoid that....

Sounds to me like you've already made your decision. I am sorry my answer was not what you may have been looking for. Here let me try again, "Go for it!"

 

[deleted106747]

I almost applied to the school that you're going to, but I fell in love with research, and I also was afraid of the cost. So I went back to undergrad and boosted my credentials. I'm now in a funded program....and I'm almost 32 years old. I think you posted that you are 21? If you do the same thing you'll still be 10 years younger than me when you begin!! I can see why you want to go to the school that you're going to - it has a great atmosphere, people are so nice, and when I observed a class (I went to a visitation day) I was very drawn to the subject matter. But the money and the debt is terrifying - perhaps not for a psychiatrist, but psychologists' salaries are not the same.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

You're forgetting something... most psychologists do NOT make $100,000 right out of the gate. Maybe if you're excellent at marketing yourself and you get some lucrative consultation work right away, but I sure wouldn't want to count on that as my only way out of debt.

I understand you really want your degree and that if you aren't in school you'll have to start paying off your loans which you can't afford, but you need to be realistic about this. You will be adding MORE debt, and not just a little bit. Yes you'll increase your eventual salary but don't assume you'll be making $100,000 a year right out of the gate. Not going to happen.

I know it's a hard choice. I had to talk myself out of going to a really expensive school in a part of the US I've always wanted to live in, and it was close to one of my best friends at the time. It would have been excellent really, but I also would have been $200,000 in debt at least. Instead I chose to wait it out for a fully-funded program in a city I would never otherwise live in. If I hadn't gotten in off the waitlist I would have waited another year and re-applied only to fully funded programs.

If you realistically believe you can pay off your debt in the end, go for it. If you can't honestly tell yourself it'll work out, then don't.

 

[Liselaime]

How exactly does the HPSP thing work? You have to move wherever they send you for 3+ years after you're done with school, and then what? Do you get to take your spouse/family with you?

 

[JR in SB]

You're forgetting something... most psychologists do NOT make $100,000 right out of the gate. Maybe if you're excellent at marketing yourself and you get some lucrative consultation work right away, but I sure wouldn't want to count on that as my only way out of debt.

I think she said that this would be the combined income between her and her husband.

 

[sarahkristy117]

Sounds to me like you've already made your decision. I am sorry my answer was not what you may have been looking for. Here let me try again, "Go for it!"

Is this sarcasm? I'm just trying to bounce my thoughts off you all... I want to make this work in any way possible and respect and value everyone's opinions including your own.

 

[sarahkristy117]

How exactly does the HPSP thing work? You have to move wherever they send you for 3+ years after you're done with school, and then what? Do you get to take your spouse/family with you?

Ditto.. and you're serving in the military so does that mean serving in war zones or is this something you can do without having to go oversees?

 

[sarahkristy117]

You're forgetting something... most psychologists do NOT make $100,000 right out of the gate. Maybe if you're excellent at marketing yourself and you get some lucrative consultation work right away, but I sure wouldn't want to count on that as my only way out of debt.
If you realistically believe you can pay off your debt in the end, go for it. If you can't honestly tell yourself it'll work out, then don't.

I am aware that I wouldn't be making $100k right out of the gate, it's a combined salary and I feel it's a conservative guess.

I am rather good at marketing myself though. 😉

 

[Anon15]

Is this sarcasm? .

Yup

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I am rather good at marketing myself though. 😉

Well then maybe you have a better shot at getting into a funded program than you think.

It sounds like you made up your mind before you even posted the thread, so go for it. Good luck with the debt situation and congratulations on the acceptance.

 

[BorntoRun]

There are actually some student loan forgiveness programs for folks who become psychologists (particularly geared toward those folks who are going into practice) -- maybe federal, or through the NIH? A colleague of mine is going through the application process now. There's quite a bit of paperwork involved, and you can only apply once you've graduated, but that might be something for you to check into.

 

[deleted106747]

There are actually some student loan forgiveness programs for folks who become psychologists (particularly geared toward those folks who are going into practice) -- maybe federal, or through the NIH? A colleague of mine is going through the application process now. There's quite a bit of paperwork involved, and you can only apply once you've graduated, but that might be something for you to check into.

I don't know if this is true or not but I was told that you can't consolidate your loans if you want to go to one of these programs. Does anyone know if that's true?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I don't know if this is true or not but I was told that you can't consolidate your loans if you want to go to one of these programs. Does anyone know if that's true?

That info should be on Sallie Mae somewhere. From what I recall you *can* consolidate, but it has to be governmental loans, and not a private loan, though definitely look it up....as I am far from certain on this.

 

[deleted176373]

How exactly does the HPSP thing work? You have to move wherever they send you for 3+ years after you're done with school, and then what? Do you get to take your spouse/family with you?

Ditto.. and you're serving in the military so does that mean serving in war zones or is this something you can do without having to go oversees?

Yes, you move where the military assigns you, sometimes you have some say in it, other times you don't. Usually you have more than one assignment to pick from as an officer. Most first tour assignments are stateside, that does not mean that you will not be deployed for a period of 6 or 12 months. Different branches have different requirements. The Air Force deploys the least but has the most psychologists. The Army deploys the most frequently, and the Navy is in between.

Unless you are deploying to a war zone (which is different than your duty assignment) you take your family with you except for 1 year unaccompanied remote tours (very few exist for Psychologists, I can't think of more than 1 in the Navy.) 75% of active duty army psychologists have been deployed at least once, but the numbers are lower for other branches of service. Remember that over those 4 years of service, your first assignment is VERY likely to be a stateside assignment. Most assignments are 2 or 3 years. Remember during those 4 years you will get all federal holidays (unless deployed.) and 30 days of paid leave each year. Try to find somewhere that gives you 30 days of paid vacation in your first year!

Remember, when the military moves you, they pay ALL of your moving costs, give you time off for house hunting (10 days) and in general make things as easy as possible for you. This is one thing that they do a good job at for the most part. Hell, if you want, they will send movers to your house and move everything for you or you can do it yourself and pocket a few extra bucks.

Don't think that you will be utilized as a combatant, while it is possible to come underfire as a psychologist, you are not trained as a combatant and they have no desire to use you as one either! This doesn't mean it's not dangerous, but it's less dangerous than other occupations like EOD.

You give up something for all the benefits, it's not a free ride. Some (relatively few) women get out of deployment by getting pregnant, most don't go that route. Although many do have children while serving, they just don't use it as a means to avoid deployment. If you are deployed, your family can continue to either live on the base you are stationed or in that local area until you return. Base housing is "free" but you lose your housing allowance... there are good and bad things about on base housing. Schools for children are usually pretty good and neighborhoods on military installations are usually VERY safe. Houses may not be as nice as downtown though.

Mark

PS - If you would like PM me and I can try to see if I can put you in touch with former military psychologists who can give you an unbiased view of how the military treated them.

 

[Ollie123]

There's also loan forgiveness programs for scientists (though I'm guessing that isn't of interest of you?). Just wanted to clarify that they aren't only available for folks going into practice.

This is a tough one - are you positive a funded program is out of reach? Many people think that but a year or two of work experience and maybe a publication can make a big difference.

 

[positivepsych]

I wouldn't count on any loan forgiveness program that you have to apply to 5+ years from now. That's much too risky of a proposition. Graduating with $250K combined debt is no joke...

As for the military. Don't do it for the money, go read the threads in the other forums about being an army physician, and you'll hear a mouthful. The ends don't always justify the means, you have to consider your lifestyle along the way.

I think your best shot is to try again for a quality program where you will not accrue debt.

 

[DiZzY187]

Damn, it sounds like if you go through with going to your top choice, that you're going to be in a lot of debt. I read some of the responses but not all. I think maybe you have to be more realistic with your financial goals. I'm not sure what kind of degree your husband has or will have, but to assume that you too together will automatically make 100k a year is somewhat unrealistic. Like someone had mention, it takes awhile for you to get that big of a salary. Also I heard from one of my psychology professors that the diff in salary between an MSW and a PhD in psychology is just about $10,000. He told me this because his wife has a MSW.
The program may seem perfect for you and everything, which I completely understand, but do you want to have your entire salary going to paying off your loans? IDK, maybe just try to re-evaulate things. You never know what can or will happen and you woldn't want every cent that you earn to be accounted for beforehand. If you accepted into a funded program that is sort of perfect for you, then I think you should go there. You can always add you own twist to things once you're in a program. Also try applying for fellowships like Ford fellowship, APA, NIH,etc. Goodluck.

 

[clearcolor]

Also, it would be best if you could have a back-up plan to pay back your loans/live in case something happens to your marriage/husband. Statistically, I'm guessing the chances of something happening to your husband are low, but the chances of the marriage not working out are higher, esp when you are married by age 21. I hope these things never happen to me/those close to me, but it is always good to be able to support yourself in case anything happens. And supporting yourself as a psychologist with the massive debt you described from both undergrad. and grad. would be very difficult.

There are many posts in other threads that go into the math on why a PsyD is a bad financial choice when you are taking out massive loans to pay for it.

 

[paramour]

Also, it would be best if you could have a back-up plan to pay back your loans/live in case something happens to your marriage/husband. Statistically, I'm guessing the chances of something happening to your husband are low, but the chances of the marriage not working out are higher, esp when you are married by age 21. I hope these things never happen to me/those close to me, but it is always good to be able to support yourself in case anything happens. And supporting yourself as a psychologist with the massive debt you described from both undergrad. and grad. would be very difficult.

There are many posts in other threads that go into the math on why a PsyD is a bad financial choice when you are taking out massive loans to pay for it.

Excellent point! I know several grad students who are no longer in their serious long-term relationships (many of them marriages)--and age doesn't necessarily have to play into it although it certainly might.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Also I heard from one of my psychology professors that the diff in salary between an MSW and a PhD in psychology is just about $10,000. He told me this because his wife has a MSW.

This is incorrect, at least in the vast majority of cases.

 

[GiantSteps]

Sarahkristy117,

As far as I can tell no one advised you yet on programs of loan repayment by working in underserved areas. I was not sure which programs so I began to search.

First I found this APA article:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb98/loan.html

which is rather old but mentioned the NHSC (National Health Service Corp.).

Then I found a more recent article by the APA about this whole topic in general (helpful for you) which also mentions the NHSC.


http://gradpsych.apags.org/apr04/debt.cfm

Here is the direct NHSC link:

http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/

In addition, since you are still young, I do not think you should rush into this type of situation which might create insurmountable debt. You should not asume that you could never get into a program with at least some funding or a Psy.D. program in an area where the cost of living may be more reasonable (I do not think you mentioned the cost of living in your area). Also, you mentioned you fear of not being able to pay back your loans right now even if you began to work. I disagree with this. Most lenders offer various repayment options. Just because you might start with a plan with very low paymens that goes on for years, does not mean that you have to stick with that type of plan later in life when you are making more. Next, it may be to your advantage to take more undegraduate level course on a part-time basis which, as long as you did enough credits, would allow you to defer your loans as well as get more psychology experience. Of course, more courses would normally cost more money but it may be worthwhile to get a job at a school. The job at the school may very well make you eligible for free courses or maybe even if your husband worked at the school then his family members could take free courses. This is quite common.

I have posted the following before, but I will write it again. I think that non-funded programs in psychology are really for people who have wealthy families. There are plenty of people out there with huge amounts of money so many of the non-funded psychology programs are just meeting an econmic demand of people with money who want to be psychologists. Ihave met many of these people. Their parents or spouses shell out the money no problem.

Finally, you and your husband may have another option. However, consult a lawyer first since it has many disadvantages. Declaring bankruptcy. Don't be shocked. Even rich people declare bankruptcy. Again, there are serious consequences so only do this if you check with a lawyer.

I hope some of this helps. Mainly, don't rush into something now which may very well be better for you to postpone for a while.

 

[deleted176373]

As for the military. Don't do it for the money, go read the threads in the other forums about being an army physician, and you'll hear a mouthful. The ends don't always justify the means, you have to consider your lifestyle along the way.

Yes, in contrast though, while you see bunches of Army docs whining and bitching about their military lives, you don't see ANY former military psychologists doing the same over here. Makes you wonder why?

In the case of Military M.D.'s they face difficulties getting the residency training they want, they get paid "less" than their civilian counterparts, and they have a chip on their shoulder about not being top dog and having to be out ranked by Nurses. It's a different rodeo for Military Doctors, and that's just the way it is. As a Psychologist (Psy.D.) making 70-80k per year right out of school and before completing internship, the issue of pay evaporates, residency competition doesn't exist, and the infrequent bowing to the medical establishment can be swallowed without undue distress... thus nullifying many of the complaints that the M.D.'s offer forth.

I agree, DON'T DO IT FOR THE MONEY. The money is just a bonus, many aspects of military life are great. I am biased though, I live it. I have been in the Military and Civilian sectors. I have a good idea what each offer, and the both offer different things. Some people are meant for the Military, others are not. I don't think it's fair to generalize the problems that M.D.'s face to that of Ph.D. Psychologists, we live in different worlds.

Mark

 

[sarahkristy117]

As a Psychologist (Psy.D.) making 70-80k per year right out of school and before completing internship, the issue of pay evaporates, residency competition doesn't exist, and the infrequent bowing to the medical establishment can be swallowed without undue distress... thus nullifying many of the complaints that the M.D.'s offer forth.

Mark

Does the military guarantee you an APA accredited internship?

 

[sarahkristy117]

Excellent point! I know several grad students who are no longer in their serious long-term relationships (many of them marriages)--and age doesn't necessarily have to play into it although it certainly might.

Age doesn't play a part.

It's really annoying when people underestimate you because of your age. I understand it, it's just irrelevant in this case.

I've taken into consideration many of these possibilities.. (i.e. husband dying or leaving - in which case he would be responsible for half of my loans legally since they are under both of our names and even if he wasn't, he'd still be taking with him 70k in loans which wouldn't be mine anymore- this won't be happening anyway, we're incredibly happy)...

I really appreciate all of your advice and warnings and supportive comments...

At this point, my family is very much behind me and wants me to go for it no matter what. I am currently petitioning my millionaire great grandparents (who have never thown a penny my way- but I'm hoping), and the military option is looking more and more attractive. I think that if I can get about half paid for by other sources (family, military, LRP, etc) and figure that plan out before April 15, I'll go for it.

 

[sarahkristy117]

Statistically, that's an innacurate statement.


Student loan debt is not generally considered marital property. This gets complicated as time goes on with arguments as to benefits, or not, from the degree. At this stage, your loans are not his and his are not yours unless you've consolidated them together (bad idea for one of you unless it is indeed an even split).

Thanks. I know.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Does the military guarantee you an APA accredited internship?

All of the military internship sites are APA accredited. HPSP (and yes, USUHS--for MarkP) is as close to a "guaratneed" internship you can get. So, the answer to this is basically "yes."

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

All of the military internship sites are APA accredited. HPSP (and yes, USUHS--for MarkP) is as close to a "guaratneed" internship you can get. So, the answer to this is basically "yes."

It is the service....they'll find a way to make sure that happens. 😀

Btw, I've had some friends go through multiple service internship sites, and they said it was very good training (and of course APA-approved).

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

It is the service....they'll find a way to make sure that happens. 😀

Btw, I've had some friends go through multiple service internship sites, and they said it was very good training (and of course APA-approved).

True, however, it is not ethical (nor the truth) to say it is guaranteed. Instead, it is like a .00000000001 chance that you won't match. Sometimes HPSP recipients do not match for a variety of reasons.

 

[paramour]

Do many of those who go through military internships go on to complete post docs? Do they have to wait until after they complete their service agreement before they can go that route? Or how does that work out? Or is it even feasible?

 

[amy203]

I certainly hope this is true. I really doubt I'd get into a fully funded program, I'm a great applicant but not super outstanding to the extent where I'd outshine 200 other equally competitive applicants..

This whole process is frustrating, but I know that I want to do this and will make it work.

I know I'm coming to this thread a bit late, but I think it would make so much more sense to take a year or two to improve your application and then apply to funded programs. Unless your GPA is very low, you should be able to significantly improve your odds of getting into a program with at least partial funding. Get some more clinical and research experience (even if you have to work part time to do it), and study like crazy before retaking the GREs. Talk with your financial aid office about further deferring your loans or reducing the payments - I'm sure you have options.

I know the next year or two would be tough, financially, but if you get into a funded program, you're saving 125,000 dollars!!! Think of it as someone offering you 125K for a year or two of work!

 

[deleted176373]

Does the military guarantee you an APA accredited internship?

Essentially it might as well be guaranteed. (no, not in writing.) I do not know of any military Clinical Psychology graduate from USUHS who did not get a military internship. I do know that people have left the program without completing it.

I suspect that the same thing applies for HPSP/HBSP graduates. I suppose it's possible, but unlikely!

Mark

 

[deleted176373]

Do many of those who go through military internships go on to complete post docs? Do they have to wait until after they complete their service agreement before they can go that route? Or how does that work out? Or is it even feasible?

Yes, there are post-doc opportunities inside the military. Some (most) will add to your commitment, most (if not all) can be attended immediately after internship.

Mark

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Yes, there are post-doc opportunities inside the military. Some (most) will add to your commitment, most (if not all) can be attended immediately after internship.

Mark

I'll make a slight correction to this one. The Army guarantees (requires) the post doc fellowship year at the same MTF where you did your internship. This is a new policy this year. You MUST stay on until you accumulate the required hours to sit for the EPPP before you are considered fully trained and deployable. Also new, as part of the same policy change is that you do not start you payback until you are licensed. This is because the Army USED to let people finish their PhD, and then go out into the "real Army" (A MEDCEN is not the real Army) while trying to get the hours and pass the test. They also started their payback at this time, which created a situation where there was a bunch of un-licensed psychologists who were just biting their time until they could get out, and get licensed where/when/ and how they want to. They were out in situations where they were the only psychologist for 100's of miles with no supervision and could never complete the hours even if they wanted to. The Army got wise to it, and said "no more." I do not think the Navy or the Air Force have implemented this, but be sure--they probably will.

 

[coloradocutter]

I haven't read all of the posts here, but it sounds like you should take some time and try to put the urgency that you see right now aside and think through this. You are very young. I know it seems like it's so close and that you could get a head start, so why not start now, but sometimes going too fast in any direction (right or wrong) is bad.

I didn't get into my first choice law school because I didn't sign one of the forms in my application. I was heartbroken - tuition at my top school was around $40k a year. Down the street from said top school, was my alma mater and a top-25, state law school. I got in and paid a paltry amount for my legal education. By working summer legal jobs at big law firms, I graduated law school with around $10k in debt. I want to leave the profession now as it wasn't what I thought and everything I have is gravy. My colleagues at my big law firm who went to said private uber-expensive law school, cannot leave. Now, the have student loans, house payment, car payment and daycare. Yikes!

I am older now and mad that I didn't go straight into the career of my dreams, but best laid plans of mice and men....and I just wasn't sure at the time. The good news is that a decision was made for me (going to cheaper state school) that I would not have made for myself. The lesson learned from comparing my experience to others who have gone into law school and other unfunded programs is that it is really hard to be happy when you are struggling financially. No matter what anyone says...

I think that given your age it is worth considering a funded psyd program and trying to get your application where it needs to be. If you really don't think that's possible no matter what you do, then you will need to be creative in finding jobs during the program and perhaps something like a military option after. I don't think either decision is wrong but do think that you should not feel rushed to go to graduate school. You do have time. Good luck