Financial incentive to get board certified in addictions?

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futuredo32

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I'd love to land a 2nd residency in FP. That's really unlikely. I got a position for addictions which could enable me to do the practice pathway to addictions, but it's in a VERY undesirable location. Do addiction specialists make a lot more than psychiatrists? I was kind of thinking addictions would add a little variety but I am DREADING moving to the location where this position is located. My life would be pretty bad for a year because in addition to doing the addictions position, I would be flying home 3 weekends a month - one to moonlight at a hospital where I have been for over a year and a half and 2 other weekends to continue seeing my private patients. The fourth weekend would be spent doing telepsych addictions which I would do both for the paycheck and more importantly so I can get enough hours in for the practice pathway. I am going through IVF this year and will need time off for that so the telepsych position would be extra hours. I am assuming a 2nd residency if FP is very unlikely and thought maybe addictions would add a little variety but that will get old fast I am sure.

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I enjoy addiction work. I got boarded for the fun of it and just in case I ever want to work a competitive pure addiction job in the future. There is no additional money in it unless you open a high volume center yourself.

You are considering a FP residency, so does money really matter? The residency and future work are all going to cut your salary.
 
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I enjoy addiction work. I got boarded for the fun of it and just in case I ever want to work a competitive pure addiction job in the future. There is no additional money in it unless you open a high volume center yourself.

You are considering a FP residency, so does money really matter? The residency and future work are all going to cut your salary.
I actually like FP. I would be HAPPY doing FP . My PCP is certified in both and rounds at a hospital daily and every other weekend. It was actually his suggestion to do an addictions certification because they aren't required to have expensive EMRs because he does addictions as well. I have no idea if this is a Michigan or national law but apparently in Michigan FPs must have an EMR And he says it is so costly he couldn't do it without doing addictions as well. I also thought it might kinda spice things up a tad and be a little bit of medicine. This is a good job, but it is in a place I REALLY don't want to live and also gives you little autonomy over time off. Maybe I have gotten lucky, but with my micro practice, locums and contract job, I TOLD them when I would be going on vacation or going to a doctors appointment, I never was expected to ASK for time off. This position is very different. I am going to an event in Tampa the week after I start- Olivia Newton John and John Travolta are having a sing along to the movie Grease and a meet and greet which I only learned about after agreeing to start the week prior. I reached out to my recruiter and said hey, I am going to Tampa. Being that the flight is costly and this will be my only vacation for the whole year, I would like to spend a week in Tampa and then start and it was not even negotiable. I am getting off an hour early the day prior to leaving and that Friday off. And this is BEFORE I even started. I was planning to maintain my BC in psych (if I can figure out what the whole PIP thing is) and planned to moonlight a weekend or two a month in psychiatry to make a little bit more than most FPs make. Honestly, the proposed changes to medicine are scary and soon the physician title may be meaningless.

BTW- The clinic I mentioned in past posts was super flexible about time off but I do think it's a therapist just wanting to make money and he misses his pill mill doctor greatly and I do think it's good that I am leaving there. I will admit I was wrong about that position.
 
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You're thinking of getting pregnant and spending all but 3 weekends a month away from home and supports? For a year? AND hating the place??
Just don't.
 
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You're thinking of getting pregnant and spending all but 3 weekends a month away from home and supports? For a year? AND hating the place??
Just don't.
I will be TRYING IVF in April. IF I got pregnant (many don't) it wouldn't be until the late spring. I'm continuing telepsych with my psychiatrist. My friends aren't the greatest. They are fun to go out with, or if they need things but that's where it ends- yes I definitely could use more supportive friends. Not close to any living relatives, so back to the original topic. PS I quit my part time job to do this. I was ok with it but now that I did quit my clinic job and I am coming up to the 30 day mark that allows me to cancel, I am having second thoughts like you wouldnt believe. But I dont have a job to replace this if I dont go...........
 
I enjoy addiction work. I got boarded for the fun of it and just in case I ever want to work a competitive pure addiction job in the future. There is no additional money in it unless you open a high volume center yourself.

You are considering a FP residency, so does money really matter? The residency and future work are all going to cut your salary.

High volume center ie practice?
 
I have no clue what you dislike about psychiatry I imagine you must miss the medical portion of medicine. If you work with the eating disorder population or gero you will have more chances to use your medical knowledge. I would suggest maybe doing a gero fellowship.
 
I have no clue what you dislike about psychiatry I imagine you must miss the medical portion of medicine. If you work with the eating disorder population or gero you will have more chances to use your medical knowledge. I would suggest maybe doing a gero fellowship.
I miss medicine. Geriatric psychiatry is largely patients with dementia and we all know how that ends. I don't see patients with anorexia or bulimia. I want DM, HTN, CHF, rashes, minor procedures , upper respiratory infections, headaches etc. I want variety. I just had a great psych rotation as a med student and that really put a rosy color on psychiatry for me. I am bored to death with psychiatry. I am so glad that there are people who like or love it. I don't mind a little, but it's wash, rinse, repeat.
 
All jobs become "wash, rinse, repeat" in time. Just got to pick your laundry. Hope you find some work happiness in the future.
 
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All jobs become "wash, rinse, repeat" in time. Just got to pick your laundry. Hope you find some work happiness in the future.
In psych you ask the SAME Questions for every initial eval and pretty much the same questions for every follow up. I dislike therapy the least but how many hours can one listen to patients talk and talk and talk...…………………………… It's just not for me.
 
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I want DM, HTN, CHF, rashes, minor procedures , upper respiratory infections, headaches etc. I am bored to death with psychiatry. I am so glad that there are people who like or love it. I don't mind a little, but it's wash, rinse, repeat.

DM, HTN, URI, HA is more wash, rinse, repeat than anything. You don’t regularly manage headaches in psych? Why not? I’m regularly adjusting DM and HTN meds in patients, especially in addictions. I probably Rx more HTN meds in addictions than the local family doc on a percentage basis. I’m not pro-midlevel at all, but the medical side of HTN and DM is so basic that it’s exactly what a midlevel should be handling.

In psych you ask the SAME Questions for every initial eval and pretty much the same questions for every follow up. I dislike therapy the least but how many hours can one listen to patients talk and talk and talk...…………………………… It's just not for me.

I’m not sure where you trained, but my evals are quite diverse. I’d say EM and Psych are probably the 2 fields with the most diversity. In my PT Friday hours today, I managed substance abuse, performed parent-child interaction therapy, treated binge eating disorder, taught some biofeedback therapy, managed ADHD, and adjusted HTN meds.
 
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I want variety. I just had a great psych rotation as a med student and that really put a rosy color on psychiatry for me. I am bored to death with psychiatry... I don't mind a little, but it's wash, rinse, repeat.

Funny, my family medicine rotation was literally "ok, but really you should change your diet and walk a little more, now bend over for your rectal" on every single patient. Oh, and one cellulitis.

Maybe you should do VA psych... half or more of my patients only ever wanted to see their psychiatist, and there were plenty without significantly impairing mental illness... I would get to diagnosis pylo, Parkinson's, tons of OSA, rashes, ect. but never had to bother managing. Of course, you see tons of substance and sick people but also lots of adjustment/I hate my wife/ or "depression" that's really medical illness that you can work up, and for lots of those patients you basically get to have a 25 minute conversation about how things are going and then tell them to go see their hudvash sw. It's far from "the same stupid ROS over and over" and you're basically their main point of contact since they go to you before PCP for illnesses.
 
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Funny, my family medicine rotation was literally "ok, but really you should change your diet and walk a little more, now bend over for your rectal" on every single patient. Oh, and one cellulitis.

Maybe you should do VA psych... half my patients only ever wanted to see their psychia
I have no clue what psychia is? The VA itself though is filled with nonsense bureaucratic work which makes it very unenjoyable.
 
I have no clue what psychia is? The VA itself though is filled with nonsense bureaucratic work which makes it very unenjoyable.

*Psychiatist. Posted halfway through my typing. See the full post above.

I would never work in the VA and I also did not enjoy it... but I also would never consider a FM residency or substance abuse fellowship. I did find that I got to use more medicine, see lots of substance, but also see people that you could just talk to for 20 minutes for catharsis.
 
*Psychiatist. Posted halfway through my typing. See the full post above.

I would never work in the VA and I also did not enjoy it... but I also would never consider a FM residency or substance abuse fellowship. I did find that I got to use more medicine, see lots of substance, but also see people that you could just talk to for 20 minutes for catharsis.
Gotcha yeah I could never work the VA but also Gero, eating disorders and some inpatient units will let you manage a lot more medicine then general psych. So I think these three are OPs best bet.
 
Gotcha yeah I could never work the VA but also Gero, eating disorders and some inpatient units will let you manage a lot more medicine then general psych. So I think these three are OPs best bet.
I rotated at the VA. It was through my residency at Wayne State in Detroit but the care was pretty bad. Perhaps other VA systems are better. I truly want fp..addictions is a little more variety. And at one point I wondered why psych wasn't more competitive. I truly miss the variety. Addictions can either be a little variety to psych or God willing a bonus to FP
 
I may consider addiction medicine board certification to help grow my forensic psychiatric expert witness practice. If I get more addictions related cases, it will help with my income. If one becomes a very or even semi-prominent addictions doctor, one can do some expert witness work without being a forensic psychiatrist. I believe the BIM board certification is helping my forensic practice. I am also in the process of getting my MRO and CCHP certifications. MRO should help with DUI and DFSA cases when the opposing expert is a toxicologist. another poster here told me the MRO will be more helpful than addiction medicine board certification.
 
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I may consider addiction medicine board certification to help grow my forensic psychiatric expert witness practice. If I get more addictions related cases, it will help with my income. If one becomes a very or even semi-prominent addictions doctor, one can do some expert witness work without being a forensic psychiatrist. I believe the BIM board certification is helping my forensic practice. I am also in the process of getting my MRO and CCHP certifications. MRO should help with DUI and DFSA cases when the opposing expert is a toxicologist. another poster here told me the MRO will be more helpful than addiction medicine board certification.
That's a good combo. It makes sense
It will be 2 days shy 9f a 30 day notice but I'm going to see my PCP and ask more questions. He has a physician with whom he shares call they cover 2 small community hospitals one of which has a small addictions unit. They round for 2 or 3 hours and then each works at their own clinic. I live in a suburb of Detroit which is huge. There are several other physicians in the area who are BC in addictions but for reasons I don't know, pretty much everyone refers patients with addiction problems to these two.
 
I've been following your posts for a while and I just want to give you my honest opinion about everything you've posted.

I really think you need to take some time and work with someone to determine what YOU want to do in life and what is realistic to do. The job you just quit was a nightmare from the things you said, but you were happy there if it had to be psych and that's what mattered. You wanted FM and now you think that's impossible (it isn't). Now you took another psych job, one that requires you to relocate to a place you hate, and in addictions and you're giving up your job, but you're flying back 3 weekends a month to see patients? And another weekend doing telepsych? And you're having IVF? So many things wrong with this. No one can do all that, let alone someone who doesn't even like psych to begin with.

More below.

I'd love to land a 2nd residency in FP. That's really unlikely. I got a position for addictions which could enable me to do the practice pathway to addictions, but it's in a VERY undesirable location. Do addiction specialists make a lot more than psychiatrists?

Addiction specialists are primarily psychiatrists. They get paid as much as any psychiatrist with an additional board certification. But if you're trying to escape the monotony of psychiatry, addictions isn't the way to do it. Your panel will be full, but your dx and treatment plans are going to be similar. If you want more medicine, try geripsych or neuropsych and you'll see more dementia that you know what to do with. Try brain injury medicine. Try CL. There are so many other ways to get more medicine into your life without having to relocate to a place you hate to do a job that, frankly, doesn't sound that great and on top of that, commuting back to your current state every weekend.

I would be flying home 3 weekends a month - one to moonlight at a hospital where I have been for over a year and a half and 2 other weekends to continue seeing my private patients. The fourth weekend would be spent doing telepsych addictions which I would do both for the paycheck and more importantly so I can get enough hours in for the practice pathway. I am going through IVF this year and will need time off for that so the telepsych position would be extra hours.

Again, this is crazy! I'm sorry to be so blunt. I'm just an anonymous idiot on a message board and I don't know you or the details of your circumstances besides what you've shared over the years, but felt the need to tell you how bad an idea this is in case others hadn't.

I actually like FP. I would be HAPPY doing FP . My PCP is certified in both and rounds at a hospital daily and every other weekend. It was actually his suggestion to do an addictions certification because they aren't required to have expensive EMRs because he does addictions as well. I have no idea if this is a Michigan or national law but apparently in Michigan FPs must have an EMR And he says it is so costly he couldn't do it without doing addictions as well.

What? Your PCP told you that addictions specialists aren't required to have expensive EMRs? Why? That doesn't make sense. Also just because he makes more doing addictions than he does as a PCP exclusively doesn't mean you will as a psychiatrist.

but it is in a place I REALLY don't want to live and also gives you little autonomy over time off

Don't do this. You're too far into your career to live some place you really don't want to, unless you're doing another residency.

I am going to an event in Tampa the week after I start- Olivia Newton John and John Travolta are having a sing along to the movie Grease and a meet and greet which I only learned about after agreeing to start the week prior. I reached out to my recruiter and said hey, I am going to Tampa. Being that the flight is costly and this will be my only vacation for the whole year, I would like to spend a week in Tampa and then start and it was not even negotiable

What do you mean this will be your only vacation for the whole year? Do you mean the year as in until 12/31? Or do you mean the year as in one year from your start date? If the latter, why would you only get one week of vacation for the year (and why would you spend it going to Tampa)? In fairness, regardless of the answers to those questions, I would still say don't take this job.

I am getting off an hour early the day prior to leaving and that Friday off. And this is BEFORE I even started. I was planning to maintain my BC in psych (if I can figure out what the whole PIP thing is) and planned to moonlight a weekend or two a month in psychiatry to make a little bit more than most FPs make. Honestly, the proposed changes to medicine are scary and soon the physician title may be meaningless.

This is not true and convincing yourself of this (and things of a similar nature) is sending you down a strange path.
 
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In Michigan per my PCP you must have an EMR but because he does addictions he can do paper charts. I am not far into a career . 2015 grad applying for 2nd residency in FP next year. I know what I want. Fp and a baby. Maybe fp is possible, maybe not. IVF is really expensive. I can afford a clinic with much better success rates with the money I'll make as an added perk.
It's my only vacation by my choice. I need almost 2k hours. I'm going to a psychiatry conference in California in October and will take time off for IVF appointments. I'm going to Tampa for an event with John Travolta and Olivia Newton John. I'm a huge Grease fan and shes in hher70s with cancer probably my last chance to see her.
medicine has a very uncertain future. Who knows?
sorry about the giant font. It pays amazing. If its awful I give 30 days notice. If it's tolerable I will make a ton of money and hopefully have a second BC. Thanks for your reply. I don't agree but you were kind and it seems thoughtful.
 
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I would recommend doing forensics or doing expert witness/ IME work on the side. I also got board certified in Brain Injury Medicine. It seems every year or two I switched clinical from IDD/autism to several psychosis to death row to outpatient with addictions to now brain injury. My clinical practice side gig plus my expert witness practice keep things very interesting. Instead of doing a two (if you get credit for it) three year FP residency, why not do some interesting psych fellowships such as c/l, neuropsych, palliative or BIM. Consider forensics....it is undoubtedly extremely interesting and limits boredom with the clinical work. Pouring over police reports for an insanity case and then switching gears to attend a drunken sex court martial and then doing a human trafficking case and then a fitness for duty for postal cop and then a somatization disorder IME and then convincing a serial killer to take a plea bargain. One examination with report can equal two weeks of clinical patient encounters of pay. Even if you decide to do addictions, you could do addictions focused IMEs.
 
I could never land a forensics fellowship, nor would I want to. I have severe ADHD and I can't take meds, the side effects are awful. So pouring over paperwork would be a big no go. I tried prison psych for a change and I lasted 2 days. Working with sociopaths was too much for me and I sat in on a few court cases with an attending who is certified in forensics and I was so bored.
I honestly appreciate the suggestion. I have tried every flavor of psych and I still want FP. I was really close to leaving psych during my early part of residency and switching to either FP or IM and I talked to my PD and some of my attendings and they all suggested that I finish my psych residency and do a 2nd residency in primary care. They all graduated long ago and didn't realize thet funding was an issue and more med schools were opening without anything close to an increase in residency programs. When they were residents it was apparently common and easy to get a 2nd residency. Unfortunately I didn't take the time to look into myself. That was my big mistake. I know you all like psych. I truly miss the rest of medicine. I had such a fun attending during my psych rotation and it was such a positive experience I unfortunately chose psych. I have tried to make lemons into lemonade. I have done short term locums assignments in many different areas of psych but at the end of the day I still want to do primary care. No field of psych has enough medicine to satisfy me. I moonlight a weekend or two a month and I do consults and I see the primary care doctors treating the vast array of medical illnesses and I am quite frankly envious. I don't usually get consults for anything other than suicide attempts, addictions for patients who have no desire to stop using, capacity or delirium and I have no idea why they are consulting psych for mental status changes most of the time its delirium and they have already figured out the cause. Maybe it's a CYA thing?
 
You sound very unhappy with your career and I don't think it will be that difficult to land an FM residency.
 
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I know lots of internists who have picked up addiction boards via the practice pathway and didn’t have to go somewhere they didn’t like. Get your X-waiver for Suboxone, work with the OUD patients who surely live in your town, and you’re there. But as people have said, if you don’t like psychiatry you’re not going to like addiction medicine, there is really enormous psychiatric comorbidity.
 
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I know lots of internists who have picked up addiction boards via the practice pathway and didn’t have to go somewhere they didn’t like. Get your X-waiver for Suboxone, work with the OUD patients who surely live in your town, and you’re there. But as people have said, if you don’t like psychiatry you’re not going to like addiction medicine, there is really enormous psychiatric comorbidity.
I read the requirements and it sounded like they really want you working at a facility that specializes in addictions and I couldn't find one locally who was willing to hire anyone not BC. The contract is signed. Maybe I will like the variety at least a little? I can say I am making a ton of money for this position. Guessing a lot of it has to do with the undesirable area. It has a 30 day out on either side. I am not doing this ever again in my life- moving out of state for a job. This is a one time deal. I will be able to make a huge dent in my outrageous student loans.
 
For those interested in the practice pathway for addiction board certification go to MI Cares. Michigan has a program to help anyone in the US get board certified. They will assist you. I am trying to find out if my expert witness work qualifies for the hours.
 
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medicine on steroids for docs with shorter attention spans but are very bright = critical care medicine

a few CCM docs I knew said they ended up in that field because they had short attention spans for whatever it's worth
 
For those interested in the practice pathway for addiction board certification go to MI Cares. Michigan has a program to help anyone in the US get board certified. They will assist you. I am trying to find out if my expert witness work qualifies for the hours.
Good to know. This may all fall through because they want references from 4 psychiatrists whom I have worked with in the past 24 months. I have 4 references but only two are from psychiatrists I have worked with in the past 24 months. I was only informed that this was a requirement yesterday. "It should be ok and work out" says my recruiter. The compensation is freaking amazing and they were willing to slightly amend my hours so I could continue my psychoanalysis with my psychiatrist and let me fly home on weekends. I only gave my notice to the clinic where I worked AFTER we both signed the contract and the clinic owner is beyond mad that I am leaving- I gave 4 weeks notice which was all that was written in the contract that never got signed, so staying there isn't an option. I also passed on a few local jobs that came up that were flexible with hours too. Kinda sucks to be me. My recruiter is trying to "fix this", but I don't have 4 psychiatrists that I have worked with in the last 24 months. If I just worked full time at the hospital where I moonlight, I wouldn't have 4. I was lucky to have had four period, definitely not four within the past 2 years. There are not often local outpatient jobs in my area that are flexible with hours. I was only moving because the compensation was so great and it was a chance at board certification in addictions. The clinic owner where I was "content enough " has been so unkind since I gave him my notice. Is the moral of the story just stay at a job and don't shoot for better? I will be kind of screwed if this doesn't go through. I do have a small private practice which got a little bigger because a fair number of the patients at the clinic I am leaving asked to follow me to my little private practice, and a weekend moonlighting position at a hospital as well as a tentative weekend addictions telepsych job . In hindsight. I never signed a contract with the part time clinic job I had and wasn't legally bound to give any notice at all. I guess that's what I should have done. It would have been a crappy thing to do but I wouldn't be in such a bad spot right now if this falls through.
 
Good to know. This may all fall through because they want references from 4 psychiatrists whom I have worked with in the past 24 months. I have 4 references but only two are from psychiatrists I have worked with in the past 24 months. I was only informed that this was a requirement yesterday. "It should be ok and work out" says my recruiter. The compensation is freaking amazing and they were willing to slightly amend my hours so I could continue my psychoanalysis with my psychiatrist and let me fly home on weekends. I only gave my notice to the clinic where I worked AFTER we both signed the contract and the clinic owner is beyond mad that I am leaving- I gave 4 weeks notice which was all that was written in the contract that never got signed, so staying there isn't an option. I also passed on a few local jobs that came up that were flexible with hours too. Kinda sucks to be me. My recruiter is trying to "fix this", but I don't have 4 psychiatrists that I have worked with in the last 24 months. If I just worked full time at the hospital where I moonlight, I wouldn't have 4. I was lucky to have had four period, definitely not four within the past 2 years. There are not often local outpatient jobs in my area that are flexible with hours. I was only moving because the compensation was so great and it was a chance at board certification in addictions. The clinic owner where I was "content enough " has been so unkind since I gave him my notice. Is the moral of the story just stay at a job and don't shoot for better? I will be kind of screwed if this doesn't go through. I do have a small private practice which got a little bigger because a fair number of the patients at the clinic I am leaving asked to follow me to my little private practice, and a weekend moonlighting position at a hospital as well as a tentative weekend addictions telepsych job . In hindsight. I never signed a contract with the part time clinic job I had and wasn't legally bound to give any notice at all. I guess that's what I should have done. It would have been a crappy thing to do but I wouldn't be in such a bad spot right now if this falls through.


For an addictions job just get 4 references total you will be just fine. Even friends or colleagues who you know can vouch for you. I have used colleagues from residency as well. Its just a hoop to jump. My friends have done the same and no one has had issues.
 
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Good to know. This may all fall through because they want references from 4 psychiatrists whom I have worked with in the past 24 months. I have 4 references but only two are from psychiatrists I have worked with in the past....

Having recently done the practice pathway, there is no requirement for 4 psychiatrists. I think 1 of them must be from a board certified doctor in anything. I used 1 BC psych, 1 BE psych, medical director (BC EM), and my pp office administrator.
 
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Because my letters were all good they waived the 2 year part. I was freaking out.
 
Regarding your original question, there is a ton of money to be made in tobacco litigation. Upcoming Juul litigation would probably work out well. I think I should be able to get letters from 1-3 board-certified addiction med or psych docs. I have an ongoing discussion with the board about my expert witness and I believe they will accept it. I am trying to get them to state that explicitly in the rules. They allow you to count legislative lobbying but not conducting a Fitness to drive on a recovering trucker. In my opinion, there will be an important safety function I will be providing with such an evaluation.

For me, as I am boarded in Forensics, I am not sure if Addictions certification will help as much as my BIM certification. The BIM certification is very unique and I did do an MVA TBI IME today and have another TBI IME next week. However, it may be possible for a non-forensic psychiatrist to break into the DUI and other addiction-related litigation with the addiction board certification. I did the MRO course and will take the exam soon. This may help with DUI and DFSA cases with the opposing expert is a toxicologist.
 
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Tobacco litigation? People know how bad smoking is. If they choose to smoke, they are allowed to make bad choices but don't cry when all of the warnings were there. You smoke and then get lung cancer or COPD? You knew this was pretty likely , no sympathy from me. I also wouldn't want to support the tobacco industry either. I do suggest that all of my smoking patients quit smoking, but I don't really think that counts. I hated going to court with a forensic psychiatrist in residency. Thank you. I can see it being lucrative, but I can't see me doing it.
 
Tobacco litigation? People know how bad smoking is. If they choose to smoke, they are allowed to make bad choices but don't cry when all of the warnings were there. You smoke and then get lung cancer or COPD? You knew this was pretty likely, no sympathy from me. I also wouldn't want to support the tobacco industry either. I do suggest that all of my smoking patients quit smoking, but I don't really think that counts. I hated going to court with a forensic psychiatrist in residency. Thank you. I can see it being lucrative, but I can't see me doing it.

Good point. This kind of litigation only occurs in some states like Florida. In Texas, the liability laws do not permit such suits. In Texas, you could sue a gun maker if the gun malfunctions, but not if it does what it intends on doing which propel a bullet in a straight line. Similar logic applies to cigarettes I assume regarding known risks.

There less controversial IMEs one can do related to addictions that serve a good purpose...i.e. an FAA "HIMS" AME for Fitness to Fly for an alcoholic pilot which serves a public safety function. It reminds me of that suicidal pilot (likely unrelated to addictions) who was thought to intentionally crash a plane full of passengers in Europe several years ago.
 
Didn't tobacco have one of the biggest settlements of all time back in the 90s? I asumed it would have protected them against future litigation.
 
Tobacco litigation? People know how bad smoking is. If they choose to smoke, they are allowed to make bad choices but don't cry when all of the warnings were there.

You're not understanding tobacco litigation. It stems from the claim that people didn't know the risks. Tobacco companies did know and failed to disclose the risks. It's not the 21-year-old who began smoking 3 years ago suing. It's the 70-year-old who began smoking in the 50s and 60s, back when tobacco companies insisted tobacco was not harmful and did not cause cancer. It wasn't until 1964 that the Surgeon General claimed smoking was hazardous. It was in 1969 that warnings had to be put on packs of cigarettes. The tobacco companies continued to insist smoking was safe. In the last 2 decades or so, a whistleblower leaked documents that proved tobacco companies knew the risks and also knew tobacco was addictive but not only did they not warn consumers, they actively lied by denying it. Following this leak, the big settlements emerged and continue.
 
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You're not understanding tobacco litigation. It stems from the claim that people didn't know the risks. Tobacco companies did know and failed to disclose the risks. It's not the 21-year-old who began smoking 3 years ago suing. It's the 70-year-old who began smoking in the 50s and 60s, back when tobacco companies insisted tobacco was not harmful and did not cause cancer. It wasn't until 1964 that the Surgeon General claimed smoking was hazardous. It was in 1969 that warnings had to be put on packs of cigarettes. The tobacco companies continued to insist smoking was safe. In the last 2 decades or so, a whistleblower leaked documents that proved tobacco companies knew the risks and also knew tobacco was addictive but not only did they not warn consumers, they actively lied by denying it. Following this leak, the big settlements emerged and continue.

For the last 55 years people have known it was unsafe. They believed the tobacco companies over the Surgeon General? Plastics have BPAs which are endocrine disruptors. I am 1 in 4 with fertility issues, there have been studies done on endocrine disruptors in a lot of chemicals, yet the government hasn't said a word. They are still selling plastic and chemicals galore. No one talks about the unhealthy impact of BPA or other chemicals. I am not suing the plastic industry. I am paying through the nose for IVF. I just hate the litigious nature of our society. I am a former smoker. Smoking is one cause of diminished ovarian reserve, I didn't know, I don't know if anyone did. We live in a society where you can sue because Mc Donald's sells a cup of coffee and you aren't careful and the coffee is hot and you get burned. I don't want to add to that. I'm sure I could sue someone for something and win, but I would rather not.
 
*Psychiatist. Posted halfway through my typing. See the full post above.

I would never work in the VA and I also did not enjoy it... but I also would never consider a FM residency or substance abuse fellowship. I did find that I got to use more medicine, see lots of substance, but also see people that you could just talk to for 20 minutes for catharsis.

Could you please share why you would "never work in the VA"? I am considering this and would love to get as many opinions as possible.
 
Could you please share why you would "never work in the VA"? I am considering this and would love to get as many opinions as possible.
You weren't quoting me but during my residency at Wayne/DMC/Sinai we did essentially half of the rotations at the Detroit VA. The EMR was SO difficult to deal with (graduated 2015). The attendings were not happy, many left the year I did. In Metro Detroit Michigan the VA is often referred to as the place physicians go to let their career die. The patients get substandard care, the pay tends to be far less, there are endless rules and regulations, staff meetings. But I guess for the last ten years of your career (and this is based solely on hearsay) you can build a decent retirement fund and you are pretty protected from being sued by a malpractice suit being that you are working for the government. During my residency the chief of all psych at the VA popped in during morning report and the chief of inpatient psych was late (which rarely happened) because she had childcare issues. In front of everyone present at morning report, the chief of psych ripped into the chief of inpatient psych. Maybe it's different at other VA hospitals? I know they are pretty much always hiring all types of physicians pretty much across the country, which is not a good sign IMO. A good place to work doesn't have such high turnover. I have had a few VA patients in my private practice who paid cash rather than go to the VA, but again, perhaps some VAs are better.
 
For the last 55 years people have known it was unsafe. They believed the tobacco companies over the Surgeon General? Plastics have BPAs which are endocrine disruptors. I am 1 in 4 with fertility issues, there have been studies done on endocrine disruptors in a lot of chemicals, yet the government hasn't said a word. They are still selling plastic and chemicals galore. No one talks about the unhealthy impact of BPA or other chemicals. I am not suing the plastic industry. I am paying through the nose for IVF. I just hate the litigious nature of our society. I am a former smoker. Smoking is one cause of diminished ovarian reserve, I didn't know, I don't know if anyone did. We live in a society where you can sue because Mc Donald's sells a cup of coffee and you aren't careful and the coffee is hot and you get burned. I don't want to add to that. I'm sure I could sue someone for something and win, but I would rather not.

Wow. You think that people shouldn't sue/settle with tobacco companies that made billions of dollars while concealing and actively lying/deceiving the public about the health consequences and addictive nature of tobacco? You're seriously likening it to the McDonald's coffee lawsuit? Wow.
 
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Wow. You think that people shouldn't sue/settle with tobacco companies that made billions of dollars while concealing and actively lying/deceiving the public about the health consequences and addictive nature of tobacco? You're seriously likening it to the McDonald's coffee lawsuit? Wow.
These people didn't take the government warning seriously? No sympathy and I am a former smoker. Anyone since the mid 60s has known the dangers and continued to smoke. It's not the same as the coffee lawsuit but the fact remains that our country as a whole is overly litigious and many doctors practice CYA medicine as a result. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
These people didn't take the government warning seriously? No sympathy and I am a former smoker. Anyone since the mid 60s has known the dangers and continued to smoke. It's not the same as the coffee lawsuit but the fact remains that our country as a whole is overly litigious and many doctors practice CYA medicine as a result. We will have to agree to disagree.

The government warning was non-existent when these people started smoking. That's the point. As I said, you're not understanding tobacco litigation.
 
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The government warning was non-existent when these people started smoking. That's the point. As I said, you're not understanding tobacco litigation.
I am done discussing this, but my family (mom, uncles, Grandpa were aware of it in the 1960s and they had no inside information from the government). But thanks for the general info, but I am not interested in this type of work.
 
Could you please share why you would "never work in the VA"? I am considering this and would love to get as many opinions as possible.

I don't plan to treat patients over 30 and very, very few post college. I don't like primary SUD or classic PTSD. The VA doesn't have enough work available in my preferred disorders. Also, I imagine that the VA wouldn't let me do most of my clinical work how I want to, ect.

It's not that I think it's a bad place to work; the VA has a lot for lots of people but I dont want to do adult psych at all really, so... I wouldn't bother caring about my reasons.
 
I am done discussing this, but my family (mom, uncles, Grandpa were aware of it in the 1960s and they had no inside information from the government). But thanks for the general info, but I am not interested in this type of work.

They didn't need inside information. The SG's warning came out in 1964, as I said. I'm also done with this discussion. I just thought it was worth noting that your disagreement with tobacco litigation stemmed from not actually understanding it and the lack of warnings available when the plaintiffs started smoking/became addicted.
 
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