MErc44

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Just got an invite to interview at Finch. I already have an acceptance at Drexel so I am wondering if it is worth the money and time to go to Finch. It seems as if there was another thread about this but I couldn't find it. I am also on the waiting list at other schools that I am pretty confident I will end up being accepted to. I was just going to go because I have fun at my interviews and I've never been to Chicago but the tickets are expensive and I am poor.
 

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If you can see yourself going to Drexel (and liking it), then forget the Finch interview...since yea, tickets are expensive...
 

MErc44

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is finch supposed to be a ****ty school or something?? I honestly don't know anything about it and I don't really trust the interview feedback because they are mostly positive no matter what school you look at.
 
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i dont know if ****ty is the word to describe any US allopathic school.
 

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Originally posted by MErc44
is finch supposed to be a ****ty school or something?? I honestly don't know anything about it and I don't really trust the interview feedback because they are mostly positive no matter what school you look at.

I think people view Finch as a backup school, but if you don't know anything about it, then the more reason to visit and see for yourself. Personally, I thought they had some of the best facilities and match lists. (I interviewed at 4 other higher ranked schools, if that helps.)
 

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thanks for the info. I am leaning towards going, it can't hurt anything but my check balance.
 

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finch is a good distance away from chicago - i'd guess around 50minutes to an hour from the city. the town it's in is called "north chicago," but it's actually a suburb that's around 40 miles north of the real city (a sick joke?). maybe if you stick around an extra day you will have plenty of time to see the real city. it's a cool place. it'd be worth the visit, especially since the weather is finally starting to get nicer here. good luck.
 

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I posted about this a couple days ago deciding to go to the chicago med interview when i already got accepted to Rush. Although, I live in chicago i still decided to decline the interview.This was due to the fact that i really liked rush and even if i end up liking CM, the location in bumble****, Illinois cant compare to Rush's location in downtown Chicago. Considering there isn't a huge difference in rep between the two schools, I'd say save your money if you like Drexel's location. Just my two cents.
 

MErc44

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Originally posted by redstar18
I think people view Finch as a backup school, but if you don't know anything about it, then the more reason to visit and see for yourself. Personally, I thought they had some of the best facilities and match lists. (I interviewed at 4 other higher ranked schools, if that helps.)


Can you elaborate on the matchlists? Is there a link where I can check them out?
 

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Here is the link for 2003:

http://www.finchcms.edu/osa/Resources/2003MR.pdf

I guess I should clarify what I mean by a "great" matchlist... I'm from CA, and I'm looking to come back for residency. Many Finch students are from Cali and they are able to come back. Also, they have students matching into competitive specialties all over the country instead of just at their affiliated hospitals.

I agree with chitown that North Chicago is not the most ideal location, but if you go to the interview, they'll explain that students usually stay at Finch the first 2 years and move Downtown for their rotations.

If you're set on Drexel, then by all means save your money. I know someone who would love to have your interview spot.
 

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That is a pretty impressive match list. I'm not set on Drexel, I'm set on one of the schools I'm waitlisted at. Now all I have to do is tell Loyola and UIC that I will be in the area, haha. Actually, coming from a UC, chicago is close enough to the east coast that I may call all the schools on the east coast that I haven't heard post secondary.
 

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Originally posted by MErc44
That is a pretty impressive match list. I'm not set on Drexel, I'm set on one of the schools I'm waitlisted at. Now all I have to do is tell Loyola and UIC that I will be in the area, haha. Actually, coming from a UC, chicago is close enough to the east coast that I may call all the schools on the east coast that I haven't heard post secondary.

Which UC, merc??
 
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Hi, I'm a M4 at Finch (as of Monday, the Rosalind Franklin School of Medicine and Science). I was one of those applicants who dreaded going to Finch and I checked into their early orientation being on the waiting lists at five other schools, thus relinquishing my chances at another school. However, looking back on my experiences, being at Finch has not been so bad. During the first two years, the professors care about teaching and that showed on our class step 1 average of 220. There are excellent clinical opportunities during the third year as you choose from about a dozen hospitals instead of just one teaching hospital and an affiliated VA. The fourth year is the most flexible I have seen as you can do 18 weeks out of town and if you work hard, you can be done in March of your M4 year. Applying for a residency in anesthesia, the only program that rejected me was Duke and I interviewed at Hopkins, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Emory, UAB, UNC, Wake Forest (all top anesthesia programs). Program directors know that our students are taught well and hit the ground running at the start of residency. All that said, there are weak points about my school like the lack of high powered research and a major academic teaching hospital. You also need a car the first two years and it helps a lot the last two years. My top choice for medical school was UIC and I am actually kind of glad I didn't go there based on what my interactions with their students (they complain of lack of financial aid, administrative hassles, professors not caring). If you haven't decided for sure on your med school choice, take a trip to Finch and check it out.
 

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I interviewed at Finch yesterday. I left with an overall positive impression, I think they get a bad rep undeservingly. They do have a few major down sides, however. These would be:

a) cost of tuition and housing in the area. (Rent for the school apts ($800 + if I'm not mistaken) is more than rent in Chicago ($500 to $700 easy for places close to the train).

b) actual grades, my tour guide said she "had nothing positive to say about the grading system" and that she and another student were trying to get it changed to some form of P/F.

c) location, but the location shouldn't ruin your life. You will be busy with school anyway. Plus you could live in Chicago, and take the train an hour both ways each day and you'd have two hours of gaurunteed study time each day.

d) little PBL, if you need that stuff in your first two years this could be a negative, I could swing either way with PBL.

Other than those things, the quality of education for years 1 and 2 seemed great, and the fourth year I interviewed with said that the clinical rotations for years 3 and 4 are excellent.
 

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Isn't lack of research opportunities only a "real" problem if you want to go into academia? Everyone seems so concerned about research, if I wanted to do research I would have applied to grad school.
 

gaspasser2004

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There are research opportunities at Finch. I spent the summer between my M1 and M2 years doing research (and got paid too) and then extended it into my M2 year and received course credit for it. It was eventually published and I was second author.
 

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Originally posted by MErc44
Isn't lack of research opportunities only a "real" problem if you want to go into academia? Everyone seems so concerned about research, if I wanted to do research I would have applied to grad school.

Research is really big for some fields and not for others. I know surgery, especially sub-specialty programs (e.g. ENT Uro), is big on research. IM and EM people, on the other hand, often choose not to do any bench research at all, as it isn't that important for res placement. Of course clinical studies are always good things to do for any field.

I would think there are some good opportunities to do research at Finch, seeing as they have Ph.D. programs in the sciences. But it is true that Finch is not a research "power house," so you aren't as likely to be working with a world renowned scientist or working on a breakthough discovery.
 

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Did you guys know it isn't even called Finch anymore? It is now called Rosalind Franklin University of Med. and Science. Huh...hope it helps.
 

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maybe they didn't know what they wanted to do or weren't motivated. I also saw a few matches at UCSF. Also maybe these students didn't excell or didn't try because they were embittered because that was their only acceptance.
 

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What I've heard time and time again is that you can do well in any medical school. Since Rosalind Franklin (that's so much harder to write then Finch) has a pretty low MCAT and GPA averages, I would imagine that the students there aren't the most motivated. However, they do have board scores that are above the national avg... Anyone have a link to thier match list?
 

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DrBodacious

Motivation has NOTHING to do with low MCAT and GPA scores...
 

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Originally posted by MErc44
Just got an invite to interview at Finch. I already have an acceptance at Drexel so I am wondering if it is worth the money and time to go to Finch. It seems as if there was another thread about this but I couldn't find it. I am also on the waiting list at other schools that I am pretty confident I will end up being accepted to. I was just going to go because I have fun at my interviews and I've never been to Chicago but the tickets are expensive and I am poor.

Me too, I love going to these interviews, it's like an excuse to travel! Even tho it costs money! :( I would take the Finch interview too, who knows!
 
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Originally posted by DrBodacious
What I've heard time and time again is that you can do well in any medical school. Since Rosalind Franklin (that's so much harder to write then Finch) has a pretty low MCAT and GPA averages, I would imagine that the students there aren't the most motivated. However, they do have board scores that are above the national avg... Anyone have a link to thier match list?

They have a low gpa average because they get many students from their combined degree programs, and they like to give reapplicants a chance (this is what the Director of Admis told me when I interviewed with her). The avg mcat is something like 28. (Isn't that the average of all students matriculating in any given year?)

I posted a link to their 2003 matchlist in this thread (on page 1, I think).
 

MErc44

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Originally posted by beponychick
DrBodacious

Motivation has NOTHING to do with low MCAT and GPA scores...

what the f$ck are you talking about. Motivation has everything to do with how well you do in anything. If you aren't motivated then you don't care, if you don't care then why would you study when you could drink, watch tv work out etc.
 

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First of all... I was not attacking you so please have some respect Second, you are right, without motivation you will most likely not do well on your MCATs or in your classes.. HOWEVER, just because a school has low GPA and MCAT averages DOES NOT IN ANY WAY mean that the student body there is not motivated. I have known people who have slaved for years trying to accomplish high grades and high scores, but were not successful.... lack of motivation was certainly not the issue....





Originally posted by MErc44
what the f$ck are you talking about. Motivation has everything to do with how well you do in anything. If you aren't motivated then you don't care, if you don't care then why would you study when you could drink, watch tv work out etc.
 

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beponychick--

I think that MCAT and GPA averages say somthing about the moviation and intellectual capibilities of the student body. Any given person can be an exception to his or her "numbers," but on average these numbers do actually show something. The Chicago Medical School is less selective then many schools, plain and simple. Therefore, they do not get the same calibre of highly motivated students as other well renowned schools. However, since I'm a late applicant, I might end up getting in to CMS only (I hope I do), and I think that the educational opportunities are there at CMS for any student to excell. So, I'm pretty sure I'd attend CMS if I got in, rather than take a year off and try to get into a better school.

The average MCAT for medical school matriculants last year was 30.
 

MErc44

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Originally posted by beponychick
First of all... I was not attacking you so please have some respect Second, you are right, without motivation you will most likely not do well on your MCATs or in your classes.. HOWEVER, just because a school has low GPA and MCAT averages DOES NOT IN ANY WAY mean that the student body there is not motivated. I have known people who have slaved for years trying to accomplish high grades and high scores, but were not successful.... lack of motivation was certainly not the issue....

Lighten up if I was trying to insult you I would have used different language. Even if they have a low gpa average...you know what f$ck it. No matter where you go you have to pass the same tests to be a doctor ultimately college grades don't mean ****.
 

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Finch's GPA and MCAT scores are NOT low... from what I read the average GPA was a 3.44 and MCAT score around 30. ACTUALLY most matriculants come in with a GPA of 3.50+ but the school lets in many (approx 50?) individuals from its 1 year master's program who usually have slightly lower averages, thus bringing the average down. Still though I don't think a 3.44 is bad at all... and as for the MCAT being around 30, thats higher than the national average.

Finch has always been my first choice my stats are 3.55 and 31O tons of EC's great LORs... and am VERY motivated, so I don't know what people are talking about when they 'diss' the student body?!? because Finch is a GREAT SCHOOL with unbelievable facilities!
 

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Originally posted by ocean11
Finch's GPA and MCAT scores are NOT low... from what I read the average GPA was a 3.44 and MCAT score around 30. ACTUALLY most matriculants come in with a GPA of 3.50+ but the school lets in many (approx 50?) individuals from its 1 year master's program who usually have slightly lower averages, thus bringing the average down. Still though I don't think a 3.44 is bad at all... and as for the MCAT being around 30, thats higher than the national average.

Finch has always been my first choice my stats are 3.55 and 31O tons of EC's great LORs... and am VERY motivated, so I don't know what people are talking about when they 'diss' the student body?!? because Finch is a GREAT SCHOOL with unbelievable facilities!


Listen, all I'm saying is that the student body at the Chicago Medical School doesn't compare to that at Harvard, UPenn, etc. and it isn't as good at that at schools like NU, Pitt. CMS is near the lower end of the range. All med students are obviously motivated, and I respect everyone attending CMS, but not all med students are created equal. Some schools consistently put out the "leaders" in the medical fields. I don't think CMS is one of those schools. However, as I've previously said, the educational opportunities seem to be there for any student to excell.
 
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To the guy who was concerned with the high number of "transitional residencies" - educate yourself and look at every match list in the country. Many residencies like anesthesia, radiology, dermatology, optho, etc require you to do a year of internal medicine, either via the transitional or preliminary year route before you can begin your categorical years. We (I am in anesthesia at Mayo Clinic, Rochester) all match both a categorical and a transitional or prelim program to fill our residency requirement. Hope this helps.
 

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Actually the person who interviewed me at Finch was offered a residency at Harvard doing surgery. The research facilities there are pretty good as well. Also before comparing CMS to Harvard etc remember that the school stimulates it's med students to go into PRIMARY care fields (although research ofcourse is a definite possibility). Many graduates decide to eventually practice in Cook County or other such povery areas and their names might not be 'nationally' known but they are EVERY bit as important as those other 'famous' Harvard grads as they care for those who truly need it!
 

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i have a burning question. what is the finch postbacc program? i heard like you take med school classes and if you do well you are guaranteed acceptances into finch ms1 or you can reapply elsewhere. anyone know what i am talking about???
 

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Originally posted by ocean11
Actually the person who interviewed me at Finch was offered a residency at Harvard doing surgery. The research facilities there are pretty good as well. Also before comparing CMS to Harvard etc remember that the school stimulates it's med students to go into PRIMARY care fields (although research ofcourse is a definite possibility). Many graduates decide to eventually practice in Cook County or other such povery areas and their names might not be 'nationally' known but they are EVERY bit as important as those other 'famous' Harvard grads as they care for those who truly need it!


Finch 'stimulates' it's med students to enter primary fields? What? I'm graduating from CMS this year and I don't remember any push from the administation toward primary care. Subspecialties are VERY popular, and remember that many people going into IM have plans to do a fellowship and never practice primary care. Having said that, lots of students in my class came in with an orientation toward primary care fields.
 

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Originally posted by docmemi
i have a burning question. what is the finch postbacc program? i heard like you take med school classes and if you do well you are guaranteed acceptances into finch ms1 or you can reapply elsewhere. anyone know what i am talking about???

It's called the Applied Physiology program, which is a terminal master's degree (pretty useless, except for getting into medical school). If you maintain a 3.0 or better, they guarantee you an interview, and strong consideration for acceptance. I'm pretty sure almost all with a 3.0 get in. You take some med school classes, as well as some froofy physiology classes. Maintaining that 3.0 is VERY HARD. Both med students and AP's study like hell at CMS; AP's for the 3.0 cut, and med students because they don't like how the letter 'C' looks on their transcripts. I've overheard APs talking before the med school physiology final saying things like "I need a 98 on this exam to stay here." I've seen lots of good people miss the cut. It's brutal, and totally a moneymaking play for the school. What better way to leverage your teaching resources than create a whole group of med students who take 5 years to graduate?
 

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this took a different direction than I thought. I am not going to attend my interview at Finch which is scheduled for the april 22nd i think. I will cancel tomorrow most likely, thought I'd let people know so they can maybe get my spot.
 

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I don't know what alot of you are talking about saying that Finch has unmotivated students who won't match. Or at least that is the impression a lot of you are giving me even if it is not what you are directly saying.


Secondly, a 44 MCAT, and 3.9GPA vs. a 3.5 GPA and 30 MCAT, doesn't mean the person with the lesser MCAT has any less motivation than the person with the higher MCAT.


I have a friend who has a 3.9 GPA but only a 24 MCAT, but she has been a nurse for 15 yrs. and happened to be 35. I think her motivation to get into medical school, far out beats that of the person with a 3.9GPA and 24 MCAT.

Once you get in medical school, they will do what they can to help you succeed anywhere because you are now an investment to them as well.

Furthermore, rankings in medical school don't determine who will be a good doctor, so much as getting good residency training.


Let me tell you, my university, University of South Florida is no where near being in the rankings......

Yet.......

Their college of medicine has happened to send people to Harvard, Yale, Vanderbuilt, Mayo, University of California San Francisco, and other top notch schools. Almost all of their graduates got their first choice residency.

So don't think that unranked schools don't put their graduates in good residencies.

Also don't think that a 3.4 GPA person is less motivated than a person with 3.9 GPA, because it may just happen that the person may know their stuff very well but may have gotten nervous during a test. Or maybe someone had a bad year, bringing down their GPA, but showed a progressive increase in their GPA with the rest of their years, etc.
 

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Originally posted by MErc44
this took a different direction than I thought. I am not going to attend my interview at Finch which is scheduled for the april 22nd i think. I will cancel tomorrow most likely, thought I'd let people know so they can maybe get my spot.

Why did you decide to cancel your interview? Do you know for sure that Finch isn't for you? I'm thinking of interviewing around the same time, but let me know what reasons you have for not going (mine reasons would be way too much $$$$) for travel, tuition, etc). thanks for the info!!
 

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Originally posted by talk2me
Why did you decide to cancel your interview? Do you know for sure that Finch isn't for you? I'm thinking of interviewing around the same time, but let me know what reasons you have for not going (mine reasons would be way too much $$$$) for travel, tuition, etc). thanks for the info!!


basically I have an acceptance at Drexel and I liked it their alot. My premed advisor told me that most people like Drexel better than finch. I tend to believe what she says because for me anyway, everything she has told me has been true and has helped me out alot. Also I just didn't want to deal with the hassle of driving to LAX at 4AM and missing three days of school right around midterms so that I can be waitlisted at a school that I will most likely turn down, especially if I am waitlisted.
 
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