Finding a job as a DO more difficult than MD?

[Favoritefarm]

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You can work hard for 60 years and try to change the worlds opinion and maybe the world will see it differently for your grandchildren pursuing DO .. or you can just go to MD now and not deal with it. But your not going to change anything by wishing really hard and telling an Internet forum all the DOs you know are really really good physicians

 

[Favoritefarm]

A lot of people on these forums, whether truthful or not, have a status. Premed, faculty, med student, etc. So... what are you? You're making very sweeping claims about the public/professional opinions and you have not cited anything... From here on, I will imagine you like the raving, drunken person at a football game.

Yes because everything I am saying is illogical. None of what I am saying makes sense. It's just crazy talk! Okkkkkkkk bud

 

[Mad Jack]

I never said there's a correlation. I actually said the opposite. You need to work on reading comprehension. I said there is a discrimination. And if you "chose" DO which is most likely not true, you chose to have an uphill battle for your career because you will always be viewed as inferior in the public eye. Not saying it's true but that's how the world sees it.

And you just went full troll. Some people may see things that way, but if you've actually been out and talked to people that knew the difference, many people prefer DOs. Holistic healthcare is all the rage right now, particularly in the affluent granola munching communities. I've heard way more "My DO is awesome" stories than "My DO is terrible" ones, and positive experiences were what led me down this path in the first place. The DOs I know faced zero difficulty in securing jobs post-residency, and are well-regarded by their colleagues and patients. They have no trouble filling their panels, and none have had their practices collapse. So I guess the point is, I've never seen it matter in practice, nor is this opinion you speak of common in any way, shape, or form.

Anyway, I know this is probably all falling on deaf ears so I'll just use the ignore button. Have a good stay on SDN.

 

[Favoritefarm]

And you just went full troll. Some people may see things that way, but if you've actually been out and talked to people that knew the difference, many people prefer DOs. Holistic healthcare is all the rage right now, particularly in the affluent granola munching communities. I've heard way more "My DO is awesome" stories than "My DO is terrible" ones, and positive experiences were what led me down this path in the first place. Anyway, I know this is probably all falling on deaf ears so I'll just use the ignore button. Have a good stay on SDN.

Many people prefer DO? That is silly. Some people prefer witch doctors too. Why don't we have a DO vs MD debate on the MD forum? Why don't MDs ever defend themselves? Why are DOs always defending why they are just as great as MD? Doesn't that right there tell you something ... just for the fact that you have to defend yourself? What does that tell you about the worldview?

 

[Favoritefarm]

Calling someone a troll because they are saying something truthful that you may not like is not really productive.

 

[Mad Jack]

There are some MD groups who would not take a DO. I shadowed an orthopaedist who proclaimed that his group would not take a DO as he believed they had inferior residency training.

Still, I doubt you will ever have difficulty finding a job as an MD or DO.

This is a problem that will no longer exist in the future. Some radiology, anesthesiology, and surgery groups believe AOA training to be inferior. However, AOA training is going the way of the dodo, so by the time OP is applying for a residency and job, that won't be an issue.

 

[Favoritefarm]

Cliff notes: 1. DOs can be just as great of physicians as MDs can be. 2. DOs are discriminated against in both private and academic sectors 3. If you don't want to deal with the discrimination, work harder, do a postbac and pursue MD

 

[Bismillah]

Cliff notes: 1. DOs can be just as great of physicians as MDs can be. 2. DOs are discriminated against in both private and academic sectors 3. If you don't want to deal with the discrimination, work harder, do a postbac and pursue MD

I can list off DOs in top tier residency programs at Yale, UCSF, Stanford, ucla etc etc. I've looked around at enough match lists to know that matching at a prestigious institution is very much doable by a DO in fields like EM, gas med, psych, pathology.. These are mostly miss-lower tier specialties but DOs are slowly moving up to better specialties each year in the match


Are all residents in the most competitive fields? Probably not. But a handful are in ultra competitive fields, ie a surgery match at UCLA from last year.

The point is, your perception that we are spewing fairy tales about DOs is incorrect.

Go do some actual detective work and find out for yourself

 

[You're My Boy Blue]

Farm is clearly ignorant about medicine

The CHIEF path resident at the hospital I research with is a DO. This is considered one of the top hospitals in the country and is an affiliate with a top-5 MD school


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[DoctorSynthesis]

And for people that are not iggnorant... they know that the Rockstars go on to MD and the ones that performed more poorly in college go on to DO. So .... where is the confusion?

Yea I don't know why you are so intent on insulting people. DOs didn't do poorly in college they actually excelled. My school has an acceptance rate around 5% and has large amounts of people from the best colleges in the nation (Princeton/Yale etc). I know a bunch of people's undergrad stats and many have GPAs close to 4.0 and MCATs over 30. The average GPA/MCAT at my school is very close to many state schools and the average matriculatant at allopathic schools.


At the hospital I work at (large hospital in an extrmely desirable area) they hire MDs/DOs. Many DOs they interview go elsewhere because they have even better offers. Employers care more about where you did residency training not med school. Heck even if you went to the carribean as long as you get residency training you will be fine.


You confuse your view with the worldview. Most people don't know what a DO is and don't care. That is the actual worldview. So please stop spreading your ignorance and go outside and do something productive with your time instead of wasting it trying to insult people online for their academic pedigrees.

 

[Dr. Death]

^Amen well put.

Also Favoritefarm smells a bit like TheBatman. . .

 

[mathnerd88]

Cliff notes: 1. DOs can be just as great of physicians as MDs can be. 2. DOs are discriminated against in both private and academic sectors 3. If you don't want to deal with the discrimination, work harder, do a postbac and pursue MD

I don't know if you're misunderstanding the point here...

Yes, traditionally, the MD applicant is stronger than the DO applicant, but it has gotten very close in recent years. If you were comparing this 10-15 years ago, I would agree with you. However, the announcement of the AOA/ACGME merger has pretty much merged the two degrees together.

 

[Favoritefarm]

It's hard arguing this. OK you win. MD is definitely the same as DO in everybody's eyes and you will never have to deal with people looking at you as inferior. That will never ever happen. It will never happen because you know DOs that are great physicians and so everyone in the world feels the way you do. That is definitely the best approach to take ... to make yourself feel better.

 

[FutureDrB]

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this argument... but the fact that a small portion of the population does not know what a D.O. is (and doesn't give a flying fig either way when their life is on the line), does not support the claim you are making that D.O.'s are inferior physicians. You do know that both DOs and MDs can take the same licensing exam correct? Actually, I take that back. DOs can take the COMLEX and/or the USMLE... MDs aren't trained in OMT and can only take the USMLE... so....

 

[Favoritefarm]

I never said they are inferior. You got to read. I can't argue if you aren't able to understand my posts.

 

[AlteredScale]

Let's keep it on topic. This thread is quickly devolving into a flame war.

Please avoid insulting other users.

 

[FutureDrB]

I never said they are inferior. You got to read. I can't argue if you aren't able to understand my posts.

Nothing I love more than a good debate... but your point of view must be supported by some shred of validity. Attempting to substantiate your argument based on opinion is fruitless. I provided you with facts. If you wish to continue a healthy debate, please provide a factual rebuttal supporting the claims you are making. If not, I have a turkey sandwich I must attend to.

 

[67552931811]

Many people prefer DO? That is silly. Some people prefer witch doctors too. Why don't we have a DO vs MD debate on the MD forum? Why don't MDs ever defend themselves? Why are DOs always defending why they are just as great as MD? Doesn't that right there tell you something ... just for the fact that you have to defend yourself? What does that tell you about the worldview?

Ah, it's silly because some 21-year-old deems it so: logical.

I've worked in 3 of the largest 5 markets in this country and, let me tell you, some people 100% prefer DOs. In the same vein, some people 100% prefer MDs. It's called life, people have differing preferences-- shocking.

If the scaffolding for your argument is based in the foundational understanding of the common man then I must lol and walk away. Because if you've ever worked in a hospital then you can count the number of non-medical personal who daily get asked if they are the docktor: RT, CNA, RN, Pharmacist, Registration, (hell, even chaplains from time to time-- no pun intended), etc.

Your statements fall under such a small, minute percentage of people that it is, quite frankly, extremely odd that so much of your world is devoted to it. Honestly, I kind of feel bad for you..

*Editted for grammar*

 

[BGMayagi]

Sorry for my rambling, but here's my viewpoint My opinion in my experiences working in the community and in the hospital the last 4-5 years as a non-physician is that their is some stigma in some instances but it's not as common as premeds make it out to be. In my hospital, DO's and MD's are everywhere, no discrimination, no differences, patient's never seem to care and most likely are only mildly aware of anything to do with the MD it self and probably unfamiliar largely with the DO degree. The vast majority of them do not care, as long as they are a "Doctor". I've seen them discriminate against NPs and PAs but never DO's and I work with 15-20 different patients daily at work. I do imagine their is some discrimination at some large research institutions because MD schools seem to be more excited about research where as DO's seem to be more interested in clinical experience. I think people who research before med school, probably had some interest in it after, and sense MD schools seem to be into that, they are more likely to get in.

I do agree a lot of DO students would go MD if possible but not all of them and the gap in entrance requirements is closing fast. I think as the residencies merg. and DO's flood the markets(as it's a lot more common as 1/4 of all students are DO students per AACOMAS), the little bias with patients and physicians will diminish even more. As far as DO students rather going MD, it's usually because MD is sometimes cheaper, closer to home as there are a lot more MD schools and it's easier to obtain competitive residencies(one exam, zero bias as MD is the majority). I don't think a lot of the time DO premeds are inferior(though they do have tend to have not as impressive stats), but probably are more disadvantaged in various ways, some of us just don't want to research, some of us are non traditional and DO's schools seem to value you that vs. MD schools, some of us have families and cannot have mom or dad fund our MCAT courses, have months off to study for the MCAT, have excessive free time for all the "E.C." research and volunteering to look good on paper and their fore, we are sometimes less competitive for MD but more so to DO in various ways. Some of the DO students are simply not able to completely flip their lives upside down to do a post bac, move to a different school or other facts just so they can have the very minor privilege of being an "M.D." vs DO, when they could just go DO and do the same thing, it's just more realistic. MD schools seem to have a better pick of privileged traditional students in my opinion because there standards are climbing so fast. Some of the students did goof off so maybe their stats are less than stellar, but maybe they didn't know they wanted to do medicine early on so they could care less. Either way, DO stats compared to most non-premeds are still in no way bad, they are just slightly lower that MD student stats in some instances. Also food for thought, a lot of the MD's currently practicing could probably not get into MD school now as the entrance stats have climbed significantly and probably would have to go DO themselves if competing in the current environment. I've talked to quite a few practicing MD's and DO's and I'm surprised about how much easier it was to get in when they applied.

Either way, mature people who tend to understand all the facts in my opinion come to realize DOs are not inferior, they just take the different route to get where they are and sometimes the DO route works out for them better. It just makes sense because after residency, the two letters after your name are 95% just that, letters for the 5% of the people who care to nitpick about, and I could care less about those 5%.

 

[mathnerd88]

Ah, it's silly because some 21-year-old deems it so: logical.

I've worked in 3 of the largest 5 markets in this country and, let me tell you, some people 100% prefer DOs. In the same vein, some people 100% prefer MDs. It's called life, people have differing preferences-- shocking.

If the scaffolding for your argument is based in the foundational understanding of the common man then I must lol and walk away. Because if you've ever worked in a hospital then you can count the number of non-medical personal who daily get asked if they are the docktor: RT, CNA, RN, Pharmacist, Registration, (hell, even chaplains from time to time-- no pun intended), etc.

Your statements fall under such a small, minute percentage of people that it is, quite frankly, extremely odd that so much of your world is devoted to it. Honestly, I kind of feel bad for you..

*Editted for grammar*

Haha, I had a NP treat me before. I found her just as effective as a physician.

 

[PKA<0]

I never said they are inferior. You got to read. I can't argue if you aren't able to understand my posts.

Your posts have only been in pre-osteo, and have been completely unproductive. They have been filled with spelling errors and nonsense.

Medicine, at the end of the day, is a team working together aimed at bettering the health of individuals. Whether you are MD or DO you have to take an objective stance and remove personal bias when working. People who cannot give up their subjective opinion have a hard time obtaining the residency they want. You continuously show an unwillingness to admit that what you say is not factual. For people like you, it is their attitude that will prevent them from succeeding, not the two letters after their name.

 

[Favoritefarm]

This is pointless. I keep saying the same thing. DOs are not inferior to MDs. But that is not how the world sees it. It's just how it is. That discrimination exists. If you don't want it don't do DO. Or lie to yourself, put your head in the sand, and tell yourself it doesn't exist.

 

[67552931811]

Haha, I had a NP treat me before. I found her just as effective as a physician.

I'm sure you aren't rolling in comorbidities.

I also was just as/more effective at teaching intro Chem when I was a tutor. I guess I can replace the prof, amirite?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

And for people that are not iggnorant... they know that the Rockstars go on to MD and the ones that performed more poorly in college go on to DO. So .... where is the confusion?

You're funny bud.

 

[becomingdoctor]

It's just another war of DO vs MD. We have to admit the fact that many DOs are not educated in the research emphasized schools, similar case with many lower-tier MD schools such as Meharry. Yes, a DO should surely have hard time to work in an elite academic institution (UCLA, MGH etc), but how about those from lower tier MD schools? How many meharry grads work for UCLA or Stanford?
If a program direct has to choose between a UCLA trained DO vs a community hospital trained MD (let's say Meharry), which one will he choose? I do believe a UCLA trained MD should have an easier time to find a desired job than a UCLA trained DO, and top residency programs more or less are biased against DO; but those people in the leadership position (hiring people), they will not solely take the two letters after your name into consideration. In the case of a DO trained in a very reputable residency program, he or she should have no trouble land a job. However, DO with inferior training should have a hard time finding desired employment, not because he or she is a DO but the training; MD with inferior training&background should also deserve an undesirable job prospect. Every employer will look at your education, training and of course personality into consideration.

 

[67552931811]

It's just another war of DO vs MD. We have to admit the fact that many DOs are not educated in the research emphasized schools, similar case with many lower-tier MD schools such as Meharry. Yes, a DO should surely have hard time to work in an elite academic institution (UCLA, MGH etc), but how about those from lower tier MD schools? How many meharry grads work for UCLA or Stanford?
If a program direct has to choose between a UCLA trained DO vs a community hospital trained MD (let's say Meharry), which one will he choose? I do believe a UCLA trained MD should have an easier time to find a desired job than a UCLA trained DO, and top residency programs more or less are biased against DO; but those people in the leadership position (hiring people), they will not solely take the two letters after your name into consideration. In the case of a DO trained in a very reputable residency program, he or she should have no trouble land a job. However, DO with inferior training should have a hard time finding desired employment, not because he or she is a DO but the training; MD with inferior training&background should also deserve an undesirable job prospect. Every employer will look at your education, training and of course personality into consideration.

You grossly overestimate what a MBA knows what is and what is not good training. Sadly, medicine isn't run by physicians anymore and the minority that is is getting gobbled up quickly.

In the non-academic world, all the suits care about is that you are board certified.