Sep 15, 2012
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I am getting increasingly skeptical (well, was never confident to start with) of the match outcome and want to explore other options. Is it too late? I have no guidance whatsoever. Are the 'all out' programs fully prematched already? How and where can I learn of any spots that maybe available?

Thanks.
 

samsoniter

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Aug 5, 2012
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okay, sorry in advance because this post will be of little help.
As I understood it the NRMP/ERAS people were changing the rules that effectively banned programs from offering out of the match positions, I do not understand the details, but I think out of match slots may becoming a thing of the past. That being said, I know a fee people who successfully found out of match positions in pretty competitive places and specialties- for them it was all about connections, attendings from your med school, people who know and can vouch for you etc.
 

shan564

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okay, sorry in advance because this post will be of little help.
As I understood it the NRMP/ERAS people were changing the rules that effectively banned programs from offering out of the match positions, I do not understand the details, but I think out of match slots may becoming a thing of the past. That being said, I know a fee people who successfully found out of match positions in pretty competitive places and specialties- for them it was all about connections, attendings from your med school, people who know and can vouch for you etc.
This is incorrect. Programs can offer out-of-match positions as long as they choose not to participate in the Match. You just can't do both anymore.
 
OP
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Sep 15, 2012
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That being said, I know a fee people who successfully found out of match positions in pretty competitive places and specialties- for them it was all about connections, attendings from your med school, people who know and can vouch for you etc.
I wish there were statistics on how many spots are granted in this manner so that the rest knew how much fewer spots are actually open to them.
 

gutonc

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okay, sorry in advance because this post will be of little help.
As I understood it the NRMP/ERAS people were changing the rules that effectively banned programs from offering out of the match positions, I do not understand the details, but I think out of match slots may becoming a thing of the past. That being said, I know a fee people who successfully found out of match positions in pretty competitive places and specialties- for them it was all about connections, attendings from your med school, people who know and can vouch for you etc.
This is more than likely a different scenario. This sounds more like a situation where a dept chair at a good school made a call to a dept chair at another program and said "look...my boy Jimmy decided late on this specialty, is smart, blah, blah, blah...can you hook him up?" Not so much that there were post-SOAP/Scramble spots available. But I could be wrong.
 

gutonc

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I wish there were statistics on how many spots are granted in this manner so that the rest knew how much fewer spots are actually open to them.
You should just assume that the number is 0.
 

aProgDirector

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I wish there were statistics on how many spots are granted in this manner so that the rest knew how much fewer spots are actually open to them.
There are no such statistics, since this is the first all in year. I expect we will see that after the match is over, and the statistics are published. We will be able to at least approximate it, by comparing the GME census data and the match data.

As to your original question, the answer is "mostly too late". Rank lists are due in the next 2 weeks or so. Presumably you have at least one program to rank. You would need to apply to, be reviewed by, interview at, be accepted, and sign a contract all before rank lists are due. That seems impossible, unless there's some local program that's willing to do so.

Have non-match programs filled by now? We don't know, and we're unlikely to know in the future. There's no way to easily measure this, and I don't know that programs would be willing to disclose it if asked. I expect that most non-match programs have filled most of their spots. If I was riunning such a program, I might leave some unfilled spots and try to get some post-SOAP people. There's lots of quality in people who applied to competitive specialties with no backup, and then don't get a slot. So at this point, if you explore non-match programs, I'd focus on whether they have spots open they plan to fill post SOAP, and if so be ready to apply if you don't match.
 
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Sep 15, 2012
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I didn't (and don't) know where to even get a list of programs that are 'all out'. All programs I've looked at are match participants.
 

gutonc

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I didn't (and don't) know where to even get a list of programs that are 'all out'. All programs I've looked at are match participants.
It took me 13 seconds to find the 19 IM programs that are "all out" on FREIDA (Protip: 3 are military, 3 are in Puerto Rico and the other 13 suck). I assume that if I was willing to invest more time than that I could find all of the programs in all of the specialties.

To do it, hit the "Optional Criteria" button and in the NRMP dropdown menu choose, "Does Not Participate in NRMP."

This is unlikely to be a comprehensive, or even totally accurate list. But it's a good place to start.
 
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Sep 15, 2012
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Thanks. I hadn't been looking at Frieda that much. Yes, I do believe the IM list to be longer but it's a start (though most likely late and futile).
 

Residentcool

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As a follow up since I can't find the previous thread on this, when is the earliest we can start applying for spots that pop up after the SOAP if we have a match committment for July? Clearly we can enter the match in Sept., but can we apply for spots that may open up before that outside the match? Anyone know?
 
Mar 18, 2012
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I interviewed for prelim IM at a program 5 miles from where I live. Categoricals were all IMGs, prelims were all IMGs, except for this one white guy from a decent school nearby, who had no clue how he ended up matching there. During the program overview in the morning, they told us that they were considering going out of the match, but were sitting on the fence about it. In late Nov they sent an email thru ERAS saying that they'd be going out of the match and would be offering positions to interviewees, who can take a prematch, throughout Dec until they filled all their spots. Ofc, I wanted to yell at them for taking out one of my ranks, but chose not to. This is the only one I know of that went out of the match. I hear some NYC programs decided to go all out of the match (I can't recall the names right - St Barnabas?).
 
Feb 13, 2013
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LOL, the one white guy from a decent school who didn't know how he ended up there! :) Surely, he must have ranked the program in his ROL, he couldn't have been that surprised that he got there if he ranked it!
 

shan564

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LOL, the one white guy from a decent school who didn't know how he ended up there! :) Surely, he must have ranked the program in his ROL, he couldn't have been that surprised that he got there if he ranked it!
Idk... I'd be pretty surprised if I ended up matching at my #15 choice, which is another program where all of the residents speak English as a second language. I'm all for working with top-class IMGs, but I'm not sure I like the idea of having co-residents with whom I have difficulty communicating in English.
 
Feb 13, 2013
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well if you don't see yourself going there, then don't rank it, because then you will have to take it if you get it....there were places i interviewed that i didnt rank because i wasn't impressed....