Finish school without intention of entering match?

[Patagonia008]

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I am just about to start my second year of medical school and after some serious consideration (been thinking about this for a couple of years now), I am strongly leaning toward the realization that practicing medicine in and of itself won't be fulfilling for me. I am incredibly bored, not challenged and don't foresee that changing much even while practicing. The only saving grace would be practicing in an academic setting that would allow for diversity from teaching to researching.

I have a degree in engineering and have always been interested in business as well as law, but the bottom line is that I have not nailed down what is exactly that I want to do (I am speaking to the dean this week about potentially pursuing a dual degree program). My question is, with having to pay full out of state tuition, does anyone have any experience on whether or not it would be worth it to finish my degree without intentions of practicing medicine. I would presumably still use aspects of the degree whether it be medical device innovation, management consulting, healthcare attorney or something along those lines. I know that a medical degree has "hiring power" but is it really worth all that much.

 

[forumname1]

There is zero reason to finish medical school and then not go onto a residency. A medical degree without a residency is literally useless.

Medical device innovation - This would be engineering, you don't need a MD for this
Management consulting - This is an MBA, not an MD
Healthcare attorney - This is a lawyer, not an MD

If you don't want to be a doctor, just drop out. You'll save yourself a lot of money and time.

 

[907914]

There is zero reason to finish medical school and then not go onto a residency. A medical degree without a residency is literally useless.

Medical device innovation - This would be engineering, you don't need a MD for this
Management consulting - This is an MBA, not an MD
Healthcare attorney - This is a lawyer, not an MD

If you don't want to be a doctor, just drop out. You'll save yourself a lot of money and time.

Don't you need to complete an intern year somewhere anyway to even get the MD?

 

[Patagonia008]

While it is true that all of those routes can be completed without an MD, there are plenty of positions that require an MD. I have spoken to one individual that dropped out during their ENT residency and worked in the medical device world and it was only possible because of his MD.

You don't need to complete intern year to get your MD, but you do to be licensed. That does technically allow you to practice medicine in some instances, but is still generally useless from what I understand.

 

[forumname1]

While it is true that all of those routes can be completed without an MD, there are plenty of positions that require an MD. I have spoken to one individual that dropped out during their ENT residency and worked in the medical device world and it was only possible because of his MD.

You don't need to complete intern year to get your MD, but you do to be licensed. That does technically allow you to practice medicine in some instances, but is still generally useless from what I understand.

So you're going to go through 3 more years of school, pay for and study for boards, just so that you might be able to find a random position in a random company that requires you to have an MD but not practice medicine?

 

[libertyyne]

Unsure how you have come to the conclusion that medicine is not stimulating or challenging enough after m1.
The depth and breadth of knowledge and application in patient care is almost endless and the varieties in specialties is evidence in that regard .


That being said , if you don't like medicine there is really no purpose for the degree.
Consulting -not required
Device design-not required.
Attorney- need a law degree.

Consulting and device design may become more accessible with a medical license since you need someone to run and manage and design clinical trials.

It doesn't really seem like it is worth the time and effort to complete medical school or residency you are just wanting to go into the above mentioned fields .

 

[Patagonia008]

Unsure how you have come to the conclusion that medicine is not stimulating or challenging enough after m1.
The depth and breadth of knowledge and application in patient care is almost endless and the varieties in specialties is evidence in that regard .


That being said , if you don't like medicine there is really no purpose for the degree.
Consulting -not required
Device design-not required.
Attorney- need a law degree.

Consulting and device design may become more accessible with a medical license since you need someone to run and manage and design clinical trials.

It doesn't really seem like it is worth the time and effort to complete medical school or residency you are just wanting to go into the above mentioned fields .

Specialization is one of the issues with medicine not requiring the breadth of knowledge that it used to need. Everything is becoming so uber specialized that you need to know only a small subset of information that you apply to your subset of patients (even with general practitioners this is true, but in a different way). If I were able to switch specialties when I grew tired of one, then this discussion would potentially be different.

I realize my analysis is presumptuous, but it is rooted in hours of research and discussions with practicing physicians and other medical students/residents at various levels of training. I realize that it is impossible to personally know how it really would be as a practicing physician, but I have to try and do the best that I can with the information that I have so that I hopefully don't come out the other end wondering why I just wasted so much time. On the other hand, I know that this is my only shot at this path and am usually not one to give up on something even if it might not be the best option.

 

[ndafife]

If you were a third year or a fourth-year, I would definitely finish school.

If you had something specific that you knew that you wanted to do we could counsel you on the benefits of continuing in med school for another three years. But that's not you right now, all that you really seem to know is that you don't want to be a doctor.

And this is just an n=1 thing, but the people I know who dropped out of residency or didn't participate in the match because they had tech/consulting jobs didn't really go through med school with that plan. They got recruited so Im not sure if that is something that you can really plan a career around from the point you are right now

 

[AMEHigh]

Since you don’t have a specific job in mind and you don’t want to be a doctor then I would quit now. Not worth all the loans and stressors of med school if you don’t need them.

 

[libertyyne]

Specialization is one of the issues with medicine not requiring the breadth of knowledge that it used to need. Everything is becoming so uber specialized that you need to know only a small subset of information that you apply to your subset of patients (even with general practitioners this is true, but in a different way). If I were able to switch specialties when I grew tired of one, then this discussion would potentially be different.

I realize my analysis is presumptuous, but it is rooted in hours of research and discussions with practicing physicians and other medical students/residents at various levels of training. I realize that it is impossible to personally know how it really would be as a practicing physician, but I have to try and do the best that I can with the information that I have so that I hopefully don't come out the other end wondering why I just wasted so much time. On the other hand, I know that this is my only shot at this path and am usually not one to give up on something even if it might not be the best option.

Specialization is the opposite. The depth and breadth of knowledge is so large that a generalist cannot be an expert in it and still be a generalist.

Have you though about becoming a PA they get to switch their specialties when ever they like.

Actually spending time in a hospital part of a team is more challenging than just knowing the book answer. You have to take in limited info from unreliable narrators, decipher tests and imaging, and in the context of the patient have to apply whatever information you have learned, or end up reading up on it and learn more. There is a vast sea of knowledge and at m1 you have barely witnessed a bathtub. Management decisions also get complicated by mutliple comorbiditues , and you often run up against the edge of our understanding in both management and basic physeo.

Medicine is not for everyone, and usually it boils down to either 1. They don't want the hours or responsibility, 2. There is an opportunity cost.

In your case if you truly believe that clinical or any predefined pathway will not meet your requirements you should really look towards the opportunity cost of 3+1 additional years required for licensure.

I would not under any circumstance complete medical school without the intent to complete training necessary for licensure, because even the fringe benefits of a medical degree in getting employed are from the license and not the MD itself.

 

[Patagonia008]

Specialization is the opposite. The depth and breadth of knowledge is so large that a generalist cannot be an expert in it and still be a generalist.

Have you though about becoming a PA they get to switch their specialties when ever they like.

Actually spending time in a hospital part of a team is more challenging than just knowing the book answer. You have to take in limited info from unreliable narrators, decipher tests and imaging, and in the context of the patient have to apply whatever information you have learned, or end up reading up on it and learn more. There is a vast sea of knowledge and at m1 you have barely witnessed a bathtub. Management decisions also get complicated by mutliple comorbiditues , and you often run up against the edge of our understanding in both management and basic physeo.

Medicine is not for everyone, and usually it boils down to either 1. They don't want the hours or responsibility, 2. There is an opportunity cost.

In your case if you truly believe that clinical or any predefined pathway will not meet your requirements you should really look towards the opportunity cost of 3+1 additional years required for licensure.

I would not under any circumstance complete medical school without the intent to complete training necessary for licensure, because even the fringe benefits of a medical degree in getting employed are from the license and not the MD itself.

I fully agree and appreciate that specialization is necessary in this climate. I also fully recognize that while the depth of knowledge that each specialist has from my seat at the beginning is impressive, but it is possible to learn it in a matter of a few years when that is what you are eating and breathing all day, everyday at the exclusion of other areas of medicine. That brings up the issue of research and how there is constant reform to practice models to potentially shake things up, but novels could be written on the poor research models invading medicine today with the pressure to publish or perish (not to mention hospital administration telling you what they deem to be the best manner of practicing). In the end, in my eyes, I feel like a lot of medicine is closer to resembling an assembly line than a think tank of creative problem solving and advancements. Of course, I may be dead wrong and I hope that I am.

 

[Goro]

I am just about to start my second year of medical school and after some serious consideration (been thinking about this for a couple of years now), I am strongly leaning toward the realization that practicing medicine in and of itself won't be fulfilling for me. I am incredibly bored, not challenged and don't foresee that changing much even while practicing. The only saving grace would be practicing in an academic setting that would allow for diversity from teaching to researching.

I have a degree in engineering and have always been interested in business as well as law, but the bottom line is that I have not nailed down what is exactly that I want to do (I am speaking to the dean this week about potentially pursuing a dual degree program). My question is, with having to pay full out of state tuition, does anyone have any experience on whether or not it would be worth it to finish my degree without intentions of practicing medicine. I would presumably still use aspects of the degree whether it be medical device innovation, management consulting, healthcare attorney or something along those lines. I know that a medical degree has "hiring power" but is it really worth all that much.

Given how you feel, it's not worth the extra years of tuition and stress. Bail now.

Can you enlighten us as to why you went to med school?

 

[camng22]

Had the same thoughts as you first year of med school. Now on my last year of med school, i still have those thoughts. Youre lucky enough to have an engineering degree. I say bail now, I would've if I were in your shoes. No need to finish med school

 

[AMEHigh]

I fully agree and appreciate that specialization is necessary in this climate. I also fully recognize that while the depth of knowledge that each specialist has from my seat at the beginning is impressive, but it is possible to learn it in a matter of a few years when that is what you are eating and breathing all day, everyday at the exclusion of other areas of medicine. That brings up the issue of research and how there is constant reform to practice models to potentially shake things up, but novels could be written on the poor research models invading medicine today with the pressure to publish or perish (not to mention hospital administration telling you what they deem to be the best manner of practicing). In the end, in my eyes, I feel like a lot of medicine is closer to resembling an assembly line than a think tank of creative problem solving and advancements. Of course, I may be dead wrong and I hope that I am.

This is the exact opposite of my experience in medicine. But I’m family med so maybe that’s why? Every day is a new challenge to tackle ways to get creative in how to help patients from birth to 100 with their health (mental, physical, spiritual).

 

[Patagonia008]

Have you had much exposure to full scope family medicine? There are plenty of programs out there that will train you to do outpatient work as well as inpatient, obstetrics, procedures, etc. - I might be biased since that's the career I chose lol, but I think it's a great fit for people who want a lot of flexibility in their career. You could definitely do it in a rural area as well as smaller cities. Even as a faculty member at a residency program in a more metropolitan area, which would mesh well with your interest in academics/research.

This past summer I was supposed to get exposure to rural healthcare rather than the urban/suburban that I have a fair amount of exposure to but the doctor I was going to work with ended up being on vacation during the time that I was available so I have not personally seen things firsthand. With that being said, PM&R would probably be my main goal if I stuck with it, but I would of course be open to all specialties during rotations. I just have a strong background in PM&R related endeavors, like the opportunity for a holistic approach, enjoy the brain/msk research and would appreciate the potential to have a side hustle with a specialty that is not as demanding as others.

 

[Patagonia008]

Given how you feel, it's not worth the extra years of tuition and stress. Bail now.

Can you enlighten us as to why you went to med school?

I understand that some of the alternative careers that I mentioned might suggest otherwise, but I did not enter medicine with the disillusionment of wanting to make money or obtain prestige. The original goal was to become a surgeon and develop surgical devices on the side with my engineering degree, but with that being said my brother has blazed the path before me so I knew that it was dumb to enter school without being okay with entering one of the "less competitive" specialties as well, which I was. I enjoy learning about how the human body works and connecting together elaborate systems, but unfortunately I feel like we gloss over the true explanations of how things actually work in medical school (I am one of the few that actually wants to know the physics, biochem, and math behind it all). I want to have a career that allows me to help others and at one point was led to believe that medicine is the best way to do that, but now realize that there are countless other ways. I need a career that allows me to creatively problem solve and so far, I am finding that there is less of it than I had originally anticipated. Those are some of the highlights of why I was originally interested in medicine and why I am now having second thoughts.

 

[Patagonia008]

This is the exact opposite of my experience in medicine. But I’m family med so maybe that’s why? Every day is a new challenge to tackle ways to get creative in how to help patients from birth to 100 with their health (mental, physical, spiritual).

I am glad to hear it. I am not quite ready to throw in the towel yet and posts like this give me hope. You are now the second person in this thread that has mentioned family med, so I will be sure to take a closer look into it. I know that there are some of my best friends in school that are dead set on family med as they seem to be more of the type of kids that I get along with and I have come to recognize the importance of "fit" within a specialty as well.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

McKinsey (one of the top 3 global consulting firms) recruits MDs. They also recruit people straight out of undergrad. Could be a good option if you decide a residency isn't for you.

 

[nimbus]

Medicine in the technical specialties is as much a craft as anything else. It can be endlessly engaging and take many decades to perfect your craft. It has been for me although others may find it less interesting. A great illustration of this concept is a movie called “Jiro Dreams of Sushi” about a man who spent 60 years perfecting his sushi. A perfectly conducted anesthetic or operation is like preparing a perfect meal. There are many pieces to the puzzle and you can’t have one without the other so it helps to know your partners.

If I was a current medical student, I would be very excited about prospects in structural interventional cardiology, vascular surgery and IR.

 

[Patagonia008]

McKinsey (one of the top 3 global consulting firms) recruits MDs. They also recruit people straight out of undergrad. Could be a good option if you decide a residency isn't for you.

That is what I was looking into as one of the potential reasons to finish the MD and still have options other than practicing medicine. I know it would still be a longshot to get the gig, but would have a higher potential with the degree.

 

[nimbus]

I understand that some of the alternative careers that I mentioned might suggest otherwise, but I did not enter medicine with the disillusionment of wanting to make money or obtain prestige. The original goal was to become a surgeon and develop surgical devices on the side with my engineering degree, but with that being said my brother has blazed the path before me so I knew that it was dumb to enter school without being okay with entering one of the "less competitive" specialties as well, which I was. I enjoy learning about how the human body works and connecting together elaborate systems, but unfortunately I feel like we gloss over the true explanations of how things actually work in medical school (I am one of the few that actually wants to know the physics, biochem, and math behind it all). I want to have a career that allows me to help others and at one point was led to believe that medicine is the best way to do that, but now realize that there are countless other ways. I need a career that allows me to creatively problem solve and so far, I am finding that there is less of it than I had originally anticipated. Those are some of the highlights of why I was originally interested in medicine and why I am now having second thoughts.

While you’re in school you have to go along with the program because you need to become familiar with a huge breadth of topics in a limited amount of time. Consider medical school to be the survey course. During fellowship and as an academic attending, you will be encouraged and rewarded for diving as deep as you are willing. The deeper the better.

 

[Splenda88]

What was your MCAT score?

 

[libertyyne]

What was your MCAT score?

Asking the real questions .

 

[Splenda88]

Asking the real questions .

I had an inflated sense of how intelligent I was before I started med school, hence these type of questions.

 

[chlorocruorin]

You collecting degrees like they infinity stones

 

[libertyyne]

I had an inflated sense of how intelligent I was before I started med school, hence these type of questions.

I did very well on the MCAT. And I am still overwhelmed at times about how much effort doing well in medical school requires. Most people I know in my class are constantly just trying to stay afloat. Unless you have a perfect memory medical school is a challenge . Not a fun one or one where critical thinking is required. More of just a challenge to regurgitate stuff.

 

[Patagonia008]

While you’re in school you have to go along with the program because you need to become familiar with a huge breadth of topics in a limited amount of time. Consider medical school to be the survey course. During fellowship and as an academic attending, you will be encouraged and rewarded for diving as deep as you are willing. The deeper the better.

I appreciate the two comments. I just wonder how much time is truly allowed to dive in deep to the topics in academic medicine rather than meet their set standards as bringing in research grants is the only profitable way to appoint time for it.

 

[Splenda88]

I did very well on the MCAT. And I am still overwhelmed at times about how much effort doing well in medical school requires. Most people I know in my class are constantly just trying to stay afloat. Unless you have a perfect memory medical school is a challenge . Not a fun one or one where critical thinking is required. More of just a challenge to regurgitate stuff.

I know... I feel like I was dumb in med school. Med school humbled me.

 

[Patagonia008]

What was your MCAT score?

Not relevant. MCAT scores and doing well in medicine are not correlated. I study far less than most of my classmates and do just fine. As I mentioned before, I am bored, not overwhelmed. I have no concerns about being able to finish, just not entirely convinced that it is worth it. I am by no means saying that I am one of the smartest, but I can memorize just fine. I am partially bored because the type of thinking that they are suggesting is "problem solving" on the exams and in the problem based sessions to solve the clinical vignettes are not a type of thinking that I find intellectually stimulating. My engineering degree was far more challenging and problem solving based, but that career has its own issues that originally turned me off from it to begin with.

 

[nimbus]

I appreciate the two comments. I just wonder how much time is truly allowed to dive in deep to the topics in academic medicine rather than meet their set standards as bringing in research grants is the only profitable way to appoint time for it.

A lot of that depends on you. If you show promise and are identified as a rising star, you will literally have both money and time thrown at you. I’ve seen it happen many times. And you’ll be able to fulfill your own agenda much better in academics than if you took a junior McKinsey consultant gig which is often about playing pretend expert and giving advice to people who know more than you.

 

[Patagonia008]

You collecting degrees like they infinity stones

That's definitely one of my problems. In an ideal world, I could have 3 separate careers. I am hoping to find a way to include as many things as possible that I find interesting meshed all together into one viable career.

 

[libertyyne]

Not relevant. MCAT scores and doing well in medicine are not correlated. I study far less than most of my classmates and do just fine. As I mentioned before, I am bored, not overwhelmed. I have no concerns about being able to finish, just not entirely convinced that it is worth it. I am by no means saying that I am one of the smartest, but I can memorize just fine. I am partially bored because the type of thinking that they are suggesting is "problem solving" on the exams and in the problem based sessions to solve the clinical vignettes are not a type of thinking that I find intellectually stimulating. My engineering degree was far more challenging and problem solving based, but that career has its own issues that originally turned me off from it to begin with.

It is partially relevant to figure out which type of person we are dealing with.

There is a group of gifted people that find med school easy, but at the same time there is a group of smp people who say that it is easy after going through the same corriculum once before. Passing medical school is not hard , doing well ,top decile , and getting a 270 on step one is tho.

Now to your second point.

The first two years ofMedical school require almost zero critical thinking. Think of it like learning a new language. No one is going to ask you to interpret zizeck or write poetry when you are just learning the language. The critical thinking application occurs when you are using the language to do interesting stuff with it.
There is breadth in primary care and there is mastery of fields in specialties. My pi literally was doing research on the question of strengths of new types of screws in a particular surgery. Which is incredibly narrow, but still interesting considering there are many decisions that get made during procedures that are not obvious at first brush like approach, technique, etc...

 

[operaman]

Yeah I’m gonna stand with the minority in this case and say to stick with it. At this point you have zero clue what sort of thinking and depth of knowledge is really required in the practice of medicine. Yes you gloss over a lot of stuff but rest assured you will dig deep into the parts that matter for your own field.

If you bail, you will never get a second chance to do this. If you’re gonna quit, do so after your degree and ideally after residency when you actually have clinical experience to sell to a big consulting firm or device maker. And you may find that actually practicing medicine is far more stimulating than it seems in M1.

 

[Patagonia008]

Thank you everyone for your insightful help. I agree with @operaman at this point that my gut says to stick with it, but my head fights back mightily that I should move on before it is too late. I am an average student right now, but know that I could be doing much better if I was able to get my head back on board to see the end goals as worth it to put in the extra time. I hate doing anything without it being with 100% commitment so I just need to figure out a way to convince myself that this is it or move on and find something that I can be motivated to put in maximum effort.

 

[Nave]

McKinsey (one of the top 3 global consulting firms) recruits MDs. They also recruit people straight out of undergrad. Could be a good option if you decide a residency isn't for you.

Yes, I am sure OP is going to walk right into McKinsey.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Yes, I am sure OP is going to walk right into McKinsey.

Did I say they would? I'm very aware of how MBB recruiting works.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Hey OP, I'm entering MS1 (MD/PhD) in a few weeks, but I wanted to say that one of my mentors had a sort of similar experience. He liked hard science a lot, was very smart, wanted to be a nuclear physicist...he applied to med school because his mother asked him to, and he got in with a scholarship. He told me multiple times how boring he found medical school, how uninteresting it was to him, but he got involved with some early research, and after finishing his residency, had a really productive postdoc (10+ papers), and became faculty. As a PI, he has written his own software for certain kinds of analysis his lab does (he taught himself everything), he is involved in optical engineering, he has done successful basic science research while also being involved in developing clinical interventions. He's working on bringing a product (developed from his research) to market, and he also practices medicine.

Anyway I don't think you have to be a PI, but I agree with the others saying that med school doesn't necessarily allow for breadth and depth, but I think actual work offers many possibilities. I read a book that said it was erroneous to expect to have a well established mission immediately and that you have to make it to the cutting edge before you can decide where/how to innovate, and that excellence in the preparation phases opens doors for you. Also, if you can perform well with less studying, nothing is stopping you from working on side projects that allow for deeper intellectual exploration. I plan on continuing with my research and studying applied math/statistics.

Many people from my undergrad enter consulting/finance etc. It's not necessarily perfect over there, either, and you have to think about what niche you would want to break into. Most of my friends in finance are not happy. Plus, I know name brand firms like name brand academic institutions.

I wish you the best OP!

 

[Patagonia008]

Hey OP, I'm entering MS1 (MD/PhD) in a few weeks, but I wanted to say that one of my mentors had a sort of similar experience. He liked hard science a lot, was very smart, wanted to be a nuclear physicist...he applied to med school because his mother asked him to, and he got in with a scholarship. He told me multiple times how boring he found medical school, how uninteresting it was to him, but he got involved with some early research, and after finishing his residency, had a really productive postdoc (10+ papers), and became faculty. As a PI, he has written his own software for certain kinds of analysis his lab does (he taught himself everything), he is involved in optical engineering, he has done successful basic science research while also being involved in developing clinical interventions. He's working on bringing a product (developed from his research) to market, and he also practices medicine.

Anyway I don't think you have to be a PI, but I agree with the others saying that med school doesn't necessarily allow for breadth and depth, but I think actual work offers many possibilities. I read a book that said it was erroneous to expect to have a well established mission immediately and that you have to make it to the cutting edge before you can decide where/how to innovate, and that excellence in the preparation phases opens doors for you. Also, if you can perform well with less studying, nothing is stopping you from working on side projects that allow for deeper intellectual exploration. I plan on continuing with my research and studying applied math/statistics.

Many people from my undergrad enter consulting/finance etc. It's not necessarily perfect over there, either, and you have to think about what niche you would want to break into. Most of my friends in finance are not happy. Plus, I know name brand firms like name brand academic institutions.

I wish you the best OP!

Thanks so much for the example. That definitely sounds more appealing and along the lines of what I might be interested in doing. I have definitely still kept some projects going during the first year from modifying a car and building a motorcycle to regular volunteering commitments and getting a puppy, but unfortunately don't have enough time to commit to starting a business or another endeavor like I would ultimately like to without running the high risk of not doing either well.

 

[Patagonia008]

Worth noting that you can also do a sports medicine fellowship after family medicine, which might give you a chance to do many of the things you enjoy about PM&R, with the flexibility of still having FM training to do primary care, hospital medicine, OB, etc. if your interests/lifestyle preferences change.

Very true, thanks. I have heard that FM is definitely a better route to sports medicine as there are more fellowships than going through PM&R.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

First of all getting your MD and then going into law will be more beneficial if you want to do med mal practice. There are very few MD/JD in the country. I think 15000. Second it is a terminal degree, it will open more doors than most people think. Pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, med device sales, product development, teaching, law consults, government work. Finally, perception, you have more clout when talking because you are a doctor. People will at least listen to you when you talk.

 

[Slave to the Game]

Not relevant. MCAT scores and doing well in medicine are not correlated. I study far less than most of my classmates and do just fine. As I mentioned before, I am bored, not overwhelmed. I have no concerns about being able to finish, just not entirely convinced that it is worth it. I am by no means saying that I am one of the smartest, but I can memorize just fine. I am partially bored because the type of thinking that they are suggesting is "problem solving" on the exams and in the problem based sessions to solve the clinical vignettes are not a type of thinking that I find intellectually stimulating. My engineering degree was far more challenging and problem solving based, but that career has its own issues that originally turned me off from it to begin with.

Sounds like you feel engineering is a much more intellectually demanding field, and based on how big your ego seems to be, you should probably go back to the field that you think is more challenging.

"I'm bored" "I could do better if I wanted to" this absolutely reeks of college students with a 2.0 GPA who think they can drop out and start their own facebook. Go ahead and do it.

 

[Patagonia008]

First of all getting your MD and then going into law will be more beneficial if you want to do med mal practice. There are very few MD/JD in the country. I think 15000. Second it is a terminal degree, it will open more doors than most people think. Pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, med device sales, product development, teaching, law consults, government work. Finally, perception, you have more clout when talking because you are a doctor. People will at least listen to you when you talk.

Thanks for the response. That is definitely more of the sense that I have gotten when discussing the possibilities with others. The main mentor that I have had said that the medical degree would have weight without even practicing.

 

[Patagonia008]

Sounds like you feel engineering is a much more intellectually demanding field, and based on how big your ego seems to be, you should probably go back to the field that you think is more challenging.

"I'm bored" "I could do better if I wanted to" this absolutely reeks of college students with a 2.0 GPA who think they can drop out and start their own facebook. Go ahead and do it.

I apologize if I came across as arrogant. I can assure you that of the many flaws that I do have, that is not one of the top ones and is actually more of a concern for me to enter a different profession such as litigation or consulting that requires supreme confidence. I am also not sure where you got from the alternative professions I described to the conclusion that I think that I am going to start the next Facebook.

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

Thanks for taking up a seat.

 

[nimbus]

First of all getting your MD and then going into law will be more beneficial if you want to do med mal practice. There are very few MD/JD in the country. I think 15000. Second it is a terminal degree, it will open more doors than most people think. Pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, med device sales, product development, teaching, law consults, government work. Finally, perception, you have more clout when talking because you are a doctor. People will at least listen to you when you talk.

I’d only mention that if you want to do any medicolegal expert witness work, you need to be board certified and actively practicing.

 

[Patagonia008]

Thanks for taking up a seat.

I assure you that I am the least of the concerns with this issue. There have been numbers thrown around that Stanford in particular has had some classes of medical students where only around 50% of them end up practicing. As I mentioned before, I entered medical school with every intention of practicing medicine and still may end up there, but it would be ridiculous to not consider other possible options. While I realize that should take place before starting school (which I did extensively), but there are some things that you can only come to understand once you have experienced it first hand.

 

[Patagonia008]

I’d only mention that if you want to do any medicolegal expert witness work, you need to be board certified and actively practicing.

Yeah I don't think that I would have much interest in being an expert witness as there is no law involved in that. If I went anything in that direction, I would be more interested in something along the lines of case consulting.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

I am just about to start my second year of medical school and after some serious consideration (been thinking about this for a couple of years now), I am strongly leaning toward the realization that practicing medicine in and of itself won't be fulfilling for me. I am incredibly bored, not challenged and don't foresee that changing much even while practicing. The only saving grace would be practicing in an academic setting that would allow for diversity from teaching to researching.

I have a degree in engineering and have always been interested in business as well as law, but the bottom line is that I have not nailed down what is exactly that I want to do (I am speaking to the dean this week about potentially pursuing a dual degree program). My question is, with having to pay full out of state tuition, does anyone have any experience on whether or not it would be worth it to finish my degree without intentions of practicing medicine. I would presumably still use aspects of the degree whether it be medical device innovation, management consulting, healthcare attorney or something along those lines. I know that a medical degree has "hiring power" but is it really worth all that much.

If you have an MD and an engineering degree there are plenty of VC firms that will die to have you as a consultant. Even better if you took a year or 2 off and got an MBA you’d literally be one of the hottest commodities in the VC world and business in general. I personally know 2 Med studs who did this (minus the MBA but had PhDs) and both got jobs in firms right out of school in low to mid 200s with plenty of opportunities to invest in companies on ground floor. You could even start looking at companies now and see if you can get a nice sign on bonus. Caveat is business is more unstable (easier to lose a job) and they still care how well you do in school though not necessarily on your boards so you can’t rwally take the P=MD route.

As a side note your are 100% highly employable as an MD without a residency you just can’t be a physician

 

[LoGo]

OP, we're not so different you and I.

I also did engineering prior, and like you since the day I started medical school I have never felt that I enjoy medicine more than I did engineering. Similarly though, in engineering there was a part of me that couldn't wait to do something else. I totally get your pain - the creativity, development of new knowledge and continual career progress you can make in engineering is very satisfying, and different from any creativity clinical medicine can provide. But, engineering had it's flaws too - the immense innovations that are possible sound awesome, but in practice take years to get to the end that can be fraught with failure along the way. Huge leaps (maybe) over huge amounts of time which can be frustrating to say the least. That’s to say nothing about income and job security. Medicine on the other hand is full of small gains - treat a condition here, remove a tumor there, have a laugh with a patient every now and then. Basically you keep chugging along without much of a long-term plan, i.e. no goal or “project” to accomplish by the end of the week or month etc. But that's also a good thing - you have an approach for what to do in a given situation, you act consistently in those situations, get a good outcome for someone and then do it all over again. Over a lifetime, a lot of small gains adds up to a lot and can give personal satisfaction.

By now, you're probably seeing my back and forth banter - the point is the grass is always greener and there are pros and cons to everything. So I recommend doing what will give you the most flexibility. Do the MD, do a short residency and then get back to engineering. Heck consider doing a MD/PhD even or add an MBA. For me, I will NEVER work 5 days a week in medicine, and most likely I will never work 5 days a week in engineering as I think I’d be unfulfilled, bored, frustrated or just plain unhappy doing just one without the other. Flexibility is key, and that engineering degree is your ace in the hole that most other doctors won’t have.

 

[mw18]

Not to be too condescending, but you truly have no idea the possibilities for complexity and sophistication in management at your level. Find the intensivist at your institution that has the reputation for knowing the most physiology and shadow rounds with them. You'll maybe start to see.

Also, your perspective seems to be the type that can never be happy. You're bored with something because people can become good at it after only a decade of intense work and training (and many would argue a few years after training are needed as well)? That's pretty much anything you could want to do.