Finish school without intention of entering match?

[Patagonia008]

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OP, we're not so different you and I.

I also did engineering prior, and like you since the day I started medical school I have never felt that I enjoy medicine more than I did engineering. Similarly though, in engineering there was a part of me that couldn't wait to do something else. I totally get your pain - the creativity, development of new knowledge and continual career progress you can make in engineering is very satisfying, and different from any creativity clinical medicine can provide. But, engineering had it's flaws too - the immense innovations that are possible sound awesome, but in practice take years to get to the end that can be fraught with failure along the way. Huge leaps (maybe) over huge amounts of time which can be frustrating to say the least. That’s to say nothing about income and job security. Medicine on the other hand is full of small gains - treat a condition here, remove a tumor there, have a laugh with a patient every now and then. Basically you keep chugging along without much of a long-term plan, i.e. no goal or “project” to accomplish by the end of the week or month etc. But that's also a good thing - you have an approach for what to do in a given situation, you act consistently in those situations, get a good outcome for someone and then do it all over again. Over a lifetime, a lot of small gains adds up to a lot and can give personal satisfaction.

By now, you're probably seeing my back and forth banter - the point is the grass is always greener and there are pros and cons to everything. So I recommend doing what will give you the most flexibility. Do the MD, do a short residency and then get back to engineering. Heck consider doing a MD/PhD even or add an MBA. For me, I will NEVER work 5 days a week in medicine, and most likely I will never work 5 days a week in engineering as I think I’d be unfulfilled, bored, frustrated or just plain unhappy doing just one without the other. Flexibility is key, and that engineering degree is your ace in the hole that most other doctors won’t have.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write a response. This is definitely a route that I could see for myself, but unfortunately missed the traditional MD/PhD route at this point and would have to either pursue a PhD during residency or take some time later on to pursue those aspects. I think my ideal career within the medical world would be to have a combination of bioengineering research, teaching, advising, and clinical practice to keep things dynamic. I also definitely appreciate that the grass is just as green in many different careers, but just hope to find the path that has the dead spots in areas that are more manageable than the others.

 

[Patagonia008]

Not to be too condescending, but you truly have no idea the possibilities for complexity and sophistication in management at your level. Find the intensivist at your institution that has the reputation for knowing the most physiology and shadow rounds with them. You'll maybe start to see.

Also, your perspective seems to be the type that can never be happy. You're bored with something because people can become good at it after only a decade of intense work and training (and many would argue a few years after training are needed as well)? That's pretty much anything you could want to do.

Not condescending at all as that is definitely the truth that I can unfortunately not fully appreciate the depth of practice until actually being there myself, but am just trying to make the best educated guess that I can from my own experiences blended with opinions of various doctors.

I believe that I can be happy, but I am definitely overly critical and analytical with certain aspects of my life and what I am going to be doing with the rest of my life has definitely brought the worst out of me. I think that once I am able to fully catch a vision for the future and reason out all other options that I can focus and enjoy the opportunity. I guess one of the major distinctions for me is that there is a difference between having a depth of knowledge that you are able to identify the correct answer to a problem versus having a problem that has no correct answer and you are encouraged to approach it in a novel way.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write a response. This is definitely a route that I could see for myself, but unfortunately missed the traditional MD/PhD route at this point and would have to either pursue a PhD during residency or take some time later on to pursue those aspects. I think my ideal career within the medical world would be to have a combination of bioengineering research, teaching, advising, and clinical practice to keep things dynamic. I also definitely appreciate that the grass is just as green in many different careers, but just hope to find the path that has the dead spots in areas that are more manageable than the others.

Forgot to mention I was also an engineer and do a lot of bioengineering research in my career and definitely find a full week of clinical medicine supremely boring. The nice thing about this field is you can really make it what you want you just have to have the canjones to create something that may not exist yet.

 

[forumname1]

First of all getting your MD and then going into law will be more beneficial if you want to do med mal practice. There are very few MD/JD in the country. I think 15000. Second it is a terminal degree, it will open more doors than most people think. Pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, med device sales, product development, teaching, law consults, government work. Finally, perception, you have more clout when talking because you are a doctor. People will at least listen to you when you talk.

I imagine there aren't many JD/MD in the country because there's zero reason to do it. As soon as you put enough time into one to be considered any sort of "expert" you'd lose all skill in the other field.

 

[Espressso]

I echo comments above about you not really knowing how much more there is in this field. It's obvious that you are bored of the preclinical years and now are doubting your entire future. Did you not foresee the potential bland grind that is the first two years? It's pretty useless to take on the debt and graduate with no intention of going into the match. If you're looking to be valuable to other career options, you would want to be licensed. But realistically, you should already know that if you really have an idea of what you want, as well as what you're truly asking about and contemplating (ie, medicine is not stimulating enough for me). And if the root of the issue is that you really don't know what you want, what makes you happy, what you see for a future, figuring that out is more important that bouncing around careers and picking up degrees for job prospects you won't even know will fulfill you in the next few years.

Also, why did you even go to medical school in the first place? These stories kind of frustrate me because there are so many students who would die to be in your shoes and have your seat but here you are wishy washy about why you are even doing this. If you were a second year resident and having doubts, yeah okay. If you were even a fourth year having doubts, makes sense. You're going into step 1 year. Of course we all don't like it and don't think it's stimulating and interesting enough. Come on dude

 

[deleted103644]

That is what I was looking into as one of the potential reasons to finish the MD and still have options other than practicing medicine. I know it would still be a longshot to get the gig, but would have a higher potential with the degree.

The people I have seen go to McKinsey have all been licensed physicians, so you should at least match for a preliminary year if that is your goal.

Not sure if it is a requirement, but definitely worth it if you finish medical school and mandatory to get a license (along with Step 3).

You should also realize the first year of medical school is nothing like being a doctor and that there is a lot of flexibility in what type of career you can have as a doctor.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I imagine there aren't many JD/MD in the country because there's zero reason to do it. As soon as you put enough time into one to be considered any sort of "expert" you'd lose all skill in the other field.

You only do a dual degree to become a medical malpractice attorney. Your a doctor who sues doctors. The courts and juries will hold you in higher esteem because you have an MD, regardless of a residency. There are many prominent law practices where the med mal lawyer is a doctor.

 

[Dro133]

Also, why did you even go to medical school in the first place? These stories kind of frustrate me because there are so many students who would die to be in your shoes and have your seat but here you are wishy washy about why you are even doing this. If you were a second year resident and having doubts, yeah okay. If you were even a fourth year having doubts, makes sense. You're going into step 1 year. Of course we all don't like it and don't think it's stimulating and interesting enough. Come on dude

I understand the frustration, but I see people making this point all the time and I think this is such a tired take.

OP was more qualified than other applicants at the time, and he had his own reasons, whatever they were, for applying to med school. People mature and their views/priorities change, especially in their twenties, and it doesn't make sense to blame them for what's essentially human nature.

If someone took a job that they ended up hating after a couple of years, do we become upset at them for taking that job over other candidates? No, they were the most qualified applicant at the time, they had their reasons for choosing the job, and now they realized it wasn't for them. Yes, people should do a better job of evaluating themselves and their priorities before they make a big commitment like taking a job or going to med school, but most of us decide to go to med school in our early twenties when we might not know ourselves all that well. Give OP a break and let's give him credit for at least having the courage to be honest with himself and introspective about his values. I suspect if more people were like him we'd have many fewer physicians ending up in careers that lead to dissatisfaction and burnout.

Best of luck, OP.

 

[Espressso]

I understand the frustration, but I see people making this point all the time and I think this is such a tired take.

OP was more qualified than other applicants at the time, and he had his own reasons, whatever they were, for applying to med school. People mature and their views/priorities change, especially in their twenties, and it doesn't make sense to blame them for what's essentially human nature.

If someone took a job that they ended up hating after a couple of years, do we become upset at them for taking that job over other candidates? No, they were the most qualified applicant at the time, they had their reasons for choosing the job, and now they realized it wasn't for them. Yes, people should do a better job of evaluating themselves and their priorities before they make a big commitment like taking a job or going to med school, but most of us decide to go to med school in our early twenties when we might not know ourselves all that well. Give OP a break and let's give him credit for at least having the courage to be honest with himself and introspective about his values. I suspect if more people were like him we'd have many fewer physicians ending up in careers that lead to dissatisfaction and burnout.

Best of luck, OP.

Fair enough. But in many countries students decide on pursuing medicine at an earlier age so I don't really buy that early age argument. Maybe the criticism is not entirely warranted on that point. But the important part is not letting first year dictate that you don't want to be in medicine anymore.

 

[Patagonia008]

Fair enough. But in many countries students decide on pursuing medicine at an earlier age so I don't really buy that early age argument. Maybe the criticism is not entirely warranted on that point. But the important part is not letting first year dictate that you don't want to be in medicine anymore.

As I mentioned before, I was well aware coming in that preclinical years and even in many ways the entire process is a grind with growing levels of reward at each stage. I am trying to base the decision on individuals that I have talked to at each stage of the medical career from medical students to practicing physicians and how my goals and strengths fit in. I am not making the decision based on my current coursework. There comes a point when I look at all of the statistics and I have to accept that I may not be the exception to the rule like I had hoped that I would be (in terms of medical career satisfaction and burnout; most recent studies are reporting around half of physicians are burned out and of course these studies are limited in their efficacy but are worth taking into consideration). I fully understand that every career has its downsides and burnout, but I just hope to optimize my strengths to a field in order to do my best to avoid burnout so that I can ultimately contribute the best that I can.

 

[forumname1]

You only do a dual degree to become a medical malpractice attorney. Your a doctor who sues doctors. The courts and juries will hold you in higher esteem because you have an MD, regardless of a residency. There are many prominent law practices where the med mal lawyer is a doctor.

I don't really know anything about it, but I believe you if you say they exist. I can't imagine the person who would do it though.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I don't really know anything about it, but I believe you if you say they exist. I can't imagine the person who would do it though.

There is a very prominent law firm in Kansas City where all the lawyers of the family have a MD or PhD.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I am just about to start my second year of medical school and after some serious consideration (been thinking about this for a couple of years now), I am strongly leaning toward the realization that practicing medicine in and of itself won't be fulfilling for me. I am incredibly bored, not challenged and don't foresee that changing mu

why don't you try waiting until the 3rd and 4th year, and then every single day intern year before saying its not challenging. you can even wear your patagonia sweatshirt.

 

[NickNaylor]

At my medical school, there were always a couple of people that went into consulting or otherwise entered industry rather than going through a residency. I didn't know these people that well so I don't know what went into that decision-making. One of my residency colleagues is going into consulting, however she completed her residency before doing so. From what she said, even in fields like consulting, having the clinical experience is valuable.

The only reason I can imagine you would graduate medical school without planning to go into residency is if you feel like there's absolutely no way you can survive doing clinical work for 3+ years. Unless you have a very, very solid plan in place, I think the wise thing would be to do a residency as it will make your medical degree so much more valuable. Even if you have no intention of practicing medicine now, you will at least have that option in the future. Bypassing residency training now will make it incredibly difficult to go back and pursue residency training in the future should you change your mind.

FWIW, I hated the pre-clinical years and didn't really have a moment of "this is what I wanted to do" until getting into the clerkships. The pre-clinical curriculum plain sucks, there's no getting around that. If you know that you're interested in clinical medicine, stick it out until you get into your clerkships. Clerkships are a completely different experience and use very different skills than the pre-clinical curriculum.

 

[nimbus]

You only do a dual degree to become a medical malpractice attorney. Your a doctor who sues doctors. The courts and juries will hold you in higher esteem because you have an MD, regardless of a residency. There are many prominent law practices where the med mal lawyer is a doctor.

A doctor without a residency? I find that hard to believe. An MD without a residency and board certification is like having a BA in biology. It doesn’t make you an expert in anything.

 

[deleted480308]

That's definitely one of my problems. In an ideal world, I could have 3 separate careers. I am hoping to find a way to include as many things as possible that I find interesting meshed all together into one viable career.

You’re an ms2, you aren’t doing medicine yet

 

[Splenda88]

You’re an ms2, you aren’t doing medicine yet

Well, he is learning how to do an H&P...

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Not relevant. MCAT scores and doing well in medicine are not correlated. I study far less than most of my classmates and do just fine. As I mentioned before, I am bored, not overwhelmed. I have no concerns about being able to finish, just not entirely convinced that it is worth it. I am by no means saying that I am one of the smartest, but I can memorize just fine. I am partially bored because the type of thinking that they are suggesting is "problem solving" on the exams and in the problem based sessions to solve the clinical vignettes are not a type of thinking that I find intellectually stimulating. My engineering degree was far more challenging and problem solving based, but that career has its own issues that originally turned me off from it to begin with.

The problem is you're not actually doing medicine. You're basically in your 5th and 6th year of college. Even PBL is nothing like actually being on service. Is part of medicine the monotonous repetition of concepts so you don't miss something? Yes. But there are a lot of cases where things go as far afield from the "vignette" as possible.

This isn't to say you should stay in med school, but just to let you know that I hated years 1&2 because of the banality of it too.