fired from lab and doubts

[Barcu]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Well, there are different interpretations of "responsible and respectful." Personally, I think keeping up with current literature and consistently pumping out data while arriving on time almost everyday is pretty "responsible and respectful," especially in the research field.

Most PIs are more lenient on volunteering undergrads, since they're essentially just free labor. Honestly, 5-15 min. usually isn't a big deal, because what exactly does it mean to have that extra 5-15 min everyday? Read 5-15 min. worth of literature? Do 5-15 min. worth of experiments? Unless it's very time-sensitive it doesn't make much sense.

There are different interpretations, but which interpretation is correct is decided by the person in charge (which in this case is the PI).

 

[Neurophage]

I really appreciate these responses.

I actually worked in the lab since the start of summer until now. I had specifically picked this lab as I thought the research was just awesome/it related to my strong interest in serving the underserved.

....

I picked my first lab based on alignment with my research interests. It didn't work out - the PI's mentality was "Do a bunch of grunt work for me and I'll write you a LOR." He was very resistant to giving me much responsibility and just wanted me to show up at an appointed time and do simple tasks. I gained very little from this experience.

I picked my second lab based on the PI. The research had almost nothing to do with my interests at all, but the PI was a great mentor. He was very supportive of me doing whatever I wanted to do as long as I could put in the time. Further, he didn't micromanage and encouraged me to take time off when I needed it so that I wouldn't sacrifice academics. I came out of this lab with experience with every step of the research process, some solid MCB techniques, a great LOR, and a future 2nd author paper.

TLDR: When choosing an undergrad lab, compatibility > research interests.

 

[idontcaureuknow]

Well, there are different interpretations of "responsible and respectful." Personally, I think keeping up with current literature and consistently pumping out data while arriving on time almost everyday is pretty "responsible and respectful," especially in the research field.

Most PIs are more lenient on volunteering undergrads, since they're essentially just free labor. Honestly, 5-15 min. usually isn't a big deal, because what exactly does it mean to have that extra 5-15 min everyday? Read 5-15 min. worth of literature? Do 5-15 min. worth of experiments? Unless it's very time-sensitive it doesn't make much sense.

I actually feel as though there is a bigger story to this that OP might not be mentioning. The PI seems to want to get rid of him for some reason that might not be related to "tardiness issue." What does the post-doc or grad student with whom the OP is working, say about this?

From one of the OP's post:

I will definitely try and set up an appointment with the PI for one final hearing. I was never late for a lab meeting, just times when he needed help in the animal behavior facility (we work with monkeys).

This syntax, to me, implies that the OP's PI was waiting on the OP for 5-15 minutes. That would be very frustrating for a PI who is allowing an UGrad to volunteer for him/her. That's a no-no. Big no-no.

Worst thing you can do is waste your PI's time or make them look bad. While I definitely got reamed by my P.I. a few times, he was rather reasonable. Once, I gave him a 5 minute warning what was about to happen was going to be bad (and a quick explanation of why). I was involved with outreach programs and in this one my partner flubbed up BIG time. But rather than throw my partner under a bus I took a good bit of blame in front of university professors (it was the first portion of a multi-part project, we were stuck together for 2 more months).

 

[music2doc]

I would really appreciate your suggestions on how to handle this situation.

I was fired from my lab today; my PI's reason were due to me being consistently late (i was often late by 5-15 minutes several times but after her first warning, i was only late once)

He fired me today because I emailed him in the morning saying that i was sick (i had a severe bout with allergies and the flu that really weakened me). I did miss one scheduled day last week because of sickness (stomach flu).

My performance in the lab was really good, however. My results and technique were praised constantly. However, my PI just thought I was too unreliable and thus fired me.

My question is do you think i should include this experience on my AMCAS or not? My PI had offered to write me a rec a couple weeks back, but now after the firing, i dont know how to approach/whether it would be wise of me to ask. Also, do you think it is fair for me to be fired during a day in which I was sick or is the firing justified by my earlier tardiness?

Your insights would be really good.

How did you not see this coming?

I mean, let me get this straight:

• Consistently late (I interpret this to mean the PI was waiting on you and/or you had a schedule to be kept)
• Had to be given a verbal warning about tardiness
• Satisfactory performance when present (which may not have been much by the sound of it)
• After being warned, called off the day of because he felt sick and had another occurrence of tardiness following the warning

...And you wonder how you got fired and whether you would want a rec from your boss there? I'd have fired you too and probably on the second tardy, not waited for #3+ to even warn you. Your PI gave you an awful lot of grace/wiggle room and you repeatedly walked all over him. You were generally unreliable and, therefore, not useful as a lab assistant. You're going to need to work on those qualities. Not professional. That will get you in a lot of trouble should you make it to med school. I would not want an LOR from this PI on my record.

 

[Corina]

Oh, I see. In my mind, this seems like the situation:

1. You were doing time-sensitive experiments with your PI, and you were late, causing him to struggle a little without the extra help. Or he just got really annoyed waiting for you.

2. Also, this PI has a very small lab if
a. you're working with him directly
b. he's performing experiments
c. you're playing a fairly critical role in the lab.

3. The PI seems like he's pretty stressed and probably untenured. Even though you're free, he could not afford for you to not show up with little notice (even due to medical reasons).

4. You're volunteering for this lab, which might indicate that the lab doesn't have very many funds. The latter would add to the PI's stress levels (plus the huge amounts of money needed for monkey work).

Anyways, sorry about how you had to spend your entire summer working for a lab, from which you won't have anything to show. Larger labs generally are more lenient IMO, though I think you know definitely (from both this incident and the numerous "you deserved it" comments from this thread haha) to be prompt.

Good luck!

 

[polyploidy516]

I will definitely look for another larger lab; this lab was small, thus, it was paramount that everyone contributed significantly. My unreliability did affect that.

One final question that I have involves another LOR question. I was able to get this lab job through a professor at my undergrad; I received an A in his class and asked him afterwords if I could be recommended to this lab. As I was banking on his rec for my med school apps (since I did well in his course/impressed him), should I go about asking him for a rec at this point? I was planning on fully explaining this lab situation and how my unreliability to the lab caused my termination despite my high level of competency in the material and labwork. This prof knows that this was my first lab experience.

would it still be advisable to ask this professor? or should I drop this LOR as well?

your insight would be appreciated.

 

[Neurophage]

I will definitely look for another larger lab; this lab was small, thus, it was paramount that everyone contributed significantly. My unreliability did affect that.

One final question that I have involves another LOR question. I was able to get this lab job through a professor at my undergrad; I received an A in his class and asked him afterwords if I could be recommended to this lab. As I was banking on his rec for my med school apps (since I did well in his course/impressed him), should I go about asking him for a rec at this point? I was planning on fully explaining this lab situation and how my unreliability to the lab caused my termination despite my high level of competency in the material and labwork. This prof knows that this was my first lab experience.

would it still be advisable to ask this professor? or should I drop this LOR as well?

your insight would be appreciated.

When I ask for LOR, I qualify my requests with a statement like, "If you have any hesitance whatsoever to write a strong letter, please don't hesitate to let me know." I've never been in a situation quite like yours, but I've found that it helps to filter out sources who might be too inattentive or too busy to write a thoughtful letter.

 

[polyploidy516]

thanks again for the responses!

 

[MedPR]

It's absolutely not fair to be fired for sickness and honestly 5-15 minutes is nothing if you worked for a research lab (on the other hand, if you were late for meetings with PI, that could reflect badly). People in my lab rolled in 30 mins to an hour late on non lab meeting days and were never reprimanded because they stayed late and got their shizz done. I suggest you go talk to your PI (if you don't, you will constantly think about it and feel guilty). An honest conversation will let you know if you can still get a rec from her and also you may be able to leave the lab on a good note. This will do you a lot of good and it won't weigh you down and make you feel bad about it forever. Just request an appointment, be polite and honest, let her be honest, and if it doesn't work out, be courteous on the way out.

*I speak from experience

OP wasn't fired for sickness. OP was fired for constant tardiness despite a warning. OP built himself a reputation for being late and unreliable. Legitimately sick or not, OP gave his employer every reason to not believe it.

OP, it's unfortunate that you don't get to work in that lab anymore despite being a good worker. Even though your PI volunteered to write you a LOR two weeks prior, if they were taking your constant tardiness this seriously, they probably weren't going to write you a good LOR to begin with.

 

[Claudin]

I think OP is doing a really good job as a volunteer... 5 - 10 minutes late is nothing unless there is a lab meeting or there are scheduled experiments that HAS to be done at that time. Heck, even the PhD students don't come on time when they are supposed to. I think the OP's PI is being way too harsh. One volunteer at my lab is consistently late by an hour everyday LOL........

I'm not saying being late is acceptable, but I don't think the OP deserves the harsh criticisms in this thread.

And definitely ask another reference for your LOR.

 

[deleted393595]

I would really appreciate your suggestions on how to handle this situation.

I was fired from my lab today; my PI's reason were due to me being consistently late (i was often late by 5-15 minutes several times but after her first warning, i was only late once)

He fired me today because I emailed him in the morning saying that i was sick (i had a severe bout with allergies and the flu that really weakened me). I did miss one scheduled day last week because of sickness (stomach flu).

My performance in the lab was really good, however. My results and technique were praised constantly. However, my PI just thought I was too unreliable and thus fired me.

My question is do you think i should include this experience on my AMCAS or not? My PI had offered to write me a rec a couple weeks back, but now after the firing, i dont know how to approach/whether it would be wise of me to ask. Also, do you think it is fair for me to be fired during a day in which I was sick or is the firing justified by my earlier tardiness?

Your insights would be really good.

I hate to say this, but I feel that there's more to your story than meets the eye. You aren't telling us the complete truth.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Sounds like you had it coming...

Lesson for life: 10 minutes early is on time.

I can't wrap my head around anyone who doesn't live by this.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I hate to say this, but I feel that there's more to your story than meets the eye. You aren't telling us the complete truth.

That is quite common in these issues

 

[as1212559]

Sounds like a bad match to me. I thought PI's were generally more results based than anything. That said of course it is bad to be late for a scheduled meeting or scheduled experiment start, but 5-10 minutes after 9 as a volunteer seems like it wouldn't matter otherwise. I am paid and regularly don't get in until 10 or 1030, but I stay as late as necessary to finish the work I need to finish. Unless I say "I will start this at 9", I probably wont be there at 9. But I have an established work partnership with my PI so maybe it makes a difference that you were new, free, expendable perhaps.

Promptness is always a good idea of course.

 

[MedPR]

I can't wrap my head around anyone who doesn't live by this.

Same. My girlfriend and I have a very difficult time going places together because I always want to be there early and she just wants to get there on-time.

 

[Kaputt]

Wow, this is such a douche thing to say. It's not like he was re-labeling the test tubes and shredding the PI's research notes and taking dumps in the PI's filing cabinet.

He was late several times and that is certainly a problem that the OP needs to work on. To say he needs to work on his professionalism and honoring his commitments is exaggeration.

Never had a job before, I presume?

It's clear from the first post and the rest of this thread that the OP was expected to be present with the PI to perform experiments. Like others have said, this must be an untenured researcher in a small lab, thus this research means a lot for the PI's career to progress. The PI doesn't have time to let an undergrad string him along and come in late. The PI was nice enough to give a warning!

What the OP did was unprofessional. Try showing up late to your clinical rotations and see what happens.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Never had a job before, I presume?

It's clear from the first post and the rest of this thread that the OP was expected to be present with the PI to perform experiments. Like others have said, this must be an untenured researcher in a small lab, thus this research means a lot for the PI's career to progress. The PI doesn't have time to let an undergrad string him along and come in late. The PI was nice enough to give a warning!

What the OP did was unprofessional. Try showing up late to your clinical rotations and see what happens.

Right. "Timeliness" is a defined component of professionalism.

 

[investing101]

Sorry to ask, what is a PI?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Sorry to ask, what is a PI?

Principal investigator.
Its the person who runs and is responsible for the lab and usually the one who is awarded the grants to do research.

 

[kpcrew]

Sorry to ask, what is a PI?

Principal Investigator.

 

[polyploidy516]

believe me there is nothing more to this story. Besides the tardyness part, everything else was going smoothly. That is what initially baffled me when I was fired for being tardy; i was expecting my work and work ethic to govern my job status.

Again thanks for all the ocmments. I know now my tardyness was unprofessional; I will rectify this issue before med school.

 

[investing101]

You may delay, but time will not. ~ Benjamin Franklin

I could never think well of a man's intellectual or moral character if he was habitually unfaithful to his appointments. ~ Emmons

It is no use running; to set out betimes is the main point. ~ La Fontaine

I give it as my deliberate and solemn conviction that the individual who is habitually tardy in meeting an appointment, will never be respected or successful in life. ~ Rev. W. Fisk

Unfaithfulness in the keeping of an appointment is an act of clear dishonesty. You may as well borrow a person's money as his time. ~ Horace Mann

I have always been a quarter of an hour before my time, and it has made a man of me. ~ Lord Nelson.

Punctuality is the politeness of kings. ~ Attributed to Louis XVIII of France

He was always late on principle, his principle being that punctuality is the thief of time. ~ Oscar Wilde

Every child should be taught to pay all his debts, and to fulfill all his contracts, exactly in manner, completely in value, punctually at the time. Everything he has borrowed, he should be obliged to return uninjured at the time specified, and everything belonging to others which he has lost, he should be required to replace. ~ Dwight

Punctuality is the stern virtue of men of business, and the graceful courtesy of princes. ~ Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton

 

[Arbor Vitae]

You may delay, but time will not. ~ Benjamin Franklin

I could never think well of a man's intellectual or moral character if he was habitually unfaithful to his appointments. ~ Emmons

It is no use running; to set out betimes is the main point. ~ La Fontaine

I give it as my deliberate and solemn conviction that the individual who is habitually tardy in meeting an appointment, will never be respected or successful in life. ~ Rev. W. Fisk

Unfaithfulness in the keeping of an appointment is an act of clear dishonesty. You may as well borrow a person's money as his time. ~ Horace Mann

I have always been a quarter of an hour before my time, and it has made a man of me. ~ Lord Nelson.

Punctuality is the politeness of kings. ~ Attributed to Louis XVIII of France

He was always late on principle, his principle being that punctuality is the thief of time. ~ Oscar Wilde

Every child should be taught to pay all his debts, and to fulfill all his contracts, exactly in manner, completely in value, punctually at the time. Everything he has borrowed, he should be obliged to return uninjured at the time specified, and everything belonging to others which he has lost, he should be required to replace. ~ Dwight

Punctuality is the stern virtue of men of business, and the graceful courtesy of princes. ~ Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton

🙄

 

[911 Turbo]

🙄

You can't talk, you have a 1.0 GPA and a 3 MCAT

 

[Kaputt]

believe me there is nothing more to this story. Besides the tardyness part, everything else was going smoothly. That is what initially baffled me when I was fired for being tardy; i was expecting my work and work ethic to govern my job status.

Again thanks for all the ocmments. I know now my tardyness was unprofessional; I will rectify this issue before med school.

Looks like you learned an important lesson. It doesn't matter if you're the brightest lightbulb in the bunch...if you're late, the higher-ups will tear you a new one. And no one will admire your work ethic if you're not on time.

 

[Doctor246853]

I would really appreciate your suggestions on how to handle this situation.

I was fired from my lab today; my PI's reason were due to me being consistently late (i was often late by 5-15 minutes several times but after her first warning, i was only late once)

He fired me today because I emailed him in the morning saying that i was sick (i had a severe bout with allergies and the flu that really weakened me). I did miss one scheduled day last week because of sickness (stomach flu).

My performance in the lab was really good, however. My results and technique were praised constantly. However, my PI just thought I was too unreliable and thus fired me.

My question is do you think i should include this experience on my AMCAS or not? My PI had offered to write me a rec a couple weeks back, but now after the firing, i dont know how to approach/whether it would be wise of me to ask. Also, do you think it is fair for me to be fired during a day in which I was sick or is the firing justified by my earlier tardiness?

Your insights would be really good.

This is huge in the lab with PI's. We had a few people whom were geniuses and it just blew my mind. Didn't matter, they were dropped like hot potatoes for being unreliable. Here I am getting a glowing lor and I suck in lab with techniques and all....go figure....

 

[deleted393595]

believe me there is nothing more to this story. Besides the tardyness part, everything else was going smoothly. That is what initially baffled me when I was fired for being tardy; i was expecting my work and work ethic to govern my job status.

Again thanks for all the ocmments. I know now my tardyness was unprofessional; I will rectify this issue before med school.

I would have gone with your first story if you hadn't said that the postdoc had complaints about you. I don't know how all of them are, but from my experience, postdocs and grad students are pretty chill about tardiness, unless the experiment involves precise timestops. For a postdoc to have gone off about you means that you weren't just a "few" minutes late to a couple of things. I'm guessing that you have a major pattern of absentism where you didn't show up for tasks on certain days and shirked responsibility. I've seen the same thing happen with another UG in another lab (and I know the full story since I know both his supervising grad student and the UG pretty well) who stopped doing stuff assigned to him, and then got fired.

Your postdoc may have thought from that that you were chronically lazy and lacked attention to detail, and were never there to complete work that the lab needed to do so that it could move ahead with stuff.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I would have gone with your first story if you hadn't said that the postdoc had complaints about you. I don't know how all of them are, but from my experience, postdocs and grad students are pretty chill about tardiness, unless the experiment involves precise timestops. For a postdoc to have gone off about you means that you weren't just a "few" minutes late to a couple of things. I'm guessing that you have a major pattern of absentism where you didn't show up for tasks on certain days and shirked responsibility. I've seen the same thing happen with another UG in another lab (and I know the full story since I know both his supervising grad student and the UG pretty well) who stopped doing stuff assigned to him, and then got fired.

Your postdoc may have thought from that that you were chronically lazy and lacked attention to detail, and were never there to complete work that the lab needed to do so that it could move ahead with stuff.

they come in all types. It could have been an anal retentive post doc as well. That said, we have identified the problem (tardiness). I still don't know how someone can make it into higher education and not see a problem with now showing up on time. IMO it is incredibly disrespectful. Its rampant, though. I just don't get it 😕

 

[45408]

Manager A walks onto his shift 5 minutes late and immediately organizes his subordinates, improves the efficiency of the operation and manages all of his responsibilities.

Manager B walks onto his shift 15 early. He poorly manages his responsibilities, redistributes loads according to favoritism and is an all around bastard.

Manager B is obviously more professional than manager A.

Look, being on time is important. Employers do expect it and its a pretty simple thing that gains you brownie points. But to say that because you were late, that means you're unprofessional and failing to honor your commitments is exaggerated and reeks of pre-med neuroticism.

Having a habit of being late simply means that you have a habit of being late. Work on it.

I have never met Manager B. Someone with those characteristics is not someone who shows up late in my experience.

Having a habit of being late means that you value your time more than someone else's time. That's overlooked in some environments, especially if you bring a lot to the table, but in other environments, it's very much looked down on. It is inexcusable in the military, and it certainly won't fly on your surgery rotation.

 

[Corina]

I've met Manager B. He was the kind of person that cared about appearance and always looked sharp, but he was horrible at his job. He didn't know how to talk to people effectively, and people really got sick of him.

Anyways, this is a learning experience. I do think people are annoyingly harsh on this thread, since this is a research lab, not a sales position at Banana Republic. Research usually is more about output than professionalism, but I think the OP was in some unusually strenuous circumstances that he should watch out for next time, especially since he has a sick father to take care of.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I've met Manager B. He was the kind of person that cared about appearance and always looked sharp, but he was horrible at his job. He didn't know how to talk to people effectively, and people really got sick of him.

Anyways, this is a learning experience. I do think people are annoyingly harsh on this thread, since this is a research lab, not a sales position at Banana Republic. Research usually is more about output than professionalism, but I think the OP was in some unusually strenuous circumstances that he should watch out for next time, especially since he has a sick father to take care of.

right. So show up into your patient's exam room in gym shorts and a "party naked" t-shirt after making them wait for an hour. Appearances don't make you a crappy doctor right? Unless part of being a "good doctor" are in fact appearances 😉

The point is - professionalism is multifaceted. Both of those managers are unprofessional because showing up late is unprofessional even if you kick ass once you are there. You have already non-verbally stated that your time is more important than those you are there to work with and that you have the right to keep people waiting on you. It is disrespectful.

 

[pietachok]

thanks again for the insight. Being late is something that i will have to improve on.

One final question that I have is should I try and make a big issue out of this and hope for a reinstatement? or would it just be better to move on?

I wouldn't make a big deal about it if that means accusing them of being unfair--they weren't.
If you want to re-join the lab b/c you love it so much, I would write an email explaining your circumstances & why you are confident they have changed in a way that will prevent the problem from recurring (you were late after your warning, & you didn't explain at the time that you had family issues?). I think it would be OK to put this as an EC under some circumstances, but if you worked a ridiculous # of hours, it might seem strange to adcoms that you didn't get an LOR & raise a flag.
If you want to re-join the lab for a letter of rec, I would not. No matter how much you improve, the letter might say "polyploidy has improved & has been a great asset...but had a lot of trouble getting in here on time for many months and required reprimand"...

 

[pietachok]

Honestly, I do not think there was anything else. He specifically said that it was due to my tardyiness and unreliability that he cannot work with me anymore. He mentioned that my results were good but that he just could not rely on me.

He and I had a pretty honest and open relationship when I worked there. If he had a problem, he would say it directly to me rather than cover it up (ex: when I showed up 10-20 min late the first few times, he was clear about how my tardyiness was bad for him and the lab).

That's why I'm pretty sure there wasnt anything else as he would praise me otherwise for my intellectual efforts and curiosity.

The postdoc was the one who actually recommended to the PI that he fire me because of my tardyiness.

Ive already moved on from this experience and will definitely perfect my next one to get the best LOR possible.

If in the future you are fortunate to have an open relationship w the PI, you should let the PI know about the family issues ahead of time, even if it turns out to be a non-issue. I have a weird medical condition, & sometimes it interferes temporarily w my functioning. I do my best to work through it, but I tell superiors about it ahead of time & explain that I will stay late, do work at home, etc., & it usually is well received (vs people who come running in late & explain it away after the fact, which makes people suspect their excuses are lies).

 

[Corina]

right. So show up into your patient's exam room in gym shorts and a "party naked" t-shirt after making them wait for an hour. Appearances don't make you a crappy doctor right? Unless part of being a "good doctor" are in fact appearances 😉

The point is - professionalism is multifaceted. Both of those managers are unprofessional because showing up late is unprofessional even if you kick ass once you are there. You have already non-verbally stated that your time is more important than those you are there to work with and that you have the right to keep people waiting on you. It is disrespectful.

Like I said, this is the research field. Not a sales position at Banana Republic nor an actual doctor's office (but FYI many doctors are almost always late for appointments).

My point is that you guys are getting your panties in a twist, since OP was in the research field, NOT some job with a strict punch-in-punch-out schedule. Normally 5-15 min. is nothing to worry about in academic research. Unfortunately OP had a sick father to worry about, and the PI was very stressed, being tight on money, time, and materials.

Moreover, I know many post-docs and grad students with children. It's just about impossible to arrive before 9AM or leave after 5:30 PM for them, since they need to drop off kids at daycare or pick them up from school, etc. Punctuality is nice, but some things need to be taken in context. IMO there are issues here that were out of OP's control, and the lab fit was not right.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Like I said, this is the research field. Not a sales position at Banana Republic nor an actual doctor's office (but FYI many doctors are almost always late for appointments).

My point is that you guys are getting your panties in a twist, since OP was in the research field, NOT some job with a strict punch-in-punch-out schedule. Normally 5-15 min. is nothing to worry about in academic research. Unfortunately OP had a sick father to worry about, and the PI was very stressed, being tight on money, time, and materials.

Moreover, I know many post-docs and grad students with children. It's just about impossible to arrive before 9AM or leave after 5:30 PM for them, since they need to drop off kids at daycare or pick them up from school, etc. Punctuality is nice, but some things need to be taken in context. IMO there are issues here that were out of OP's control, and the lab fit was not right.

Having worked in both environments I don't really need you to highlight the distinction here. I've worked for PIs that let you set your own schedule, and those who expect you to be on time. Both anecdotes are completely irrelevant. It is just as inappropriate to show up 10 min late to a date, a movie, drinks with friends, whatever. The occasional crap comes up, but what I heard was habitual tardiness which is simply arrogant or disrespectful (whichever you prefer).


A doctor is never late for his appointment. He arrives precisely when he means to. Also.... I have no idea how a PIs or post docs busy home situation impacts the OPs ability to show up on time.

 

[Corina]

It is just as inappropriate to show up 10 min late to a date, a movie, drinks with friends, whatever.

holy crap are you german or something? i'd be scared to go to the movies with you. 😛

take a chill pill dude.

 

[SpecterGT260]

holy crap are you german or something? i'd be scared to go to the movies with you. 😛

take a chill pill dude.

No. Just dated one too many girls who thought it appropriate to start doing makeup 15 min before reservations or paid movie tickets.

 

[Corina]

A doctor is never late for his appointment. He arrives precisely when he means to. Also.... I have no idea how a PIs or post docs busy home situation impacts the OPs ability to show up on time.

Oh haai I just read this now. Well, when I shadowed a urologist and family physician and a radiologist...they were all late for their appointments. Especially the family physician. When I was little, my pediatrician was always late, and I had to wait sometimes 30 min with my mom. Thing is, with back-to-back appointments, it's hard to be on time. But you know that right, mr. medical student.

 

[SpecterGT260]

The point is, I don't think anyone has their panties in a bunch. Nobody is saying the OP is a bad person - just that this should have been obvious before it became a problem. The people who pull the "deer in headlights' response when they routinely roll into work whenever it strikes their fancy have always been hard to understand.

and how is saying it is inappropriate to show up late pre-arranged times not chill? its just a statement. 😉 its ok, you're new. Ill give you some time to acclimate to the internetz

 

[SpecterGT260]

Oh haai I just read this now. Well, when I shadowed a urologist and family physician and a radiologist...they were all late for their appointments. Especially the family physician. When I was little, my pediatrician was always late, and I had to wait sometimes 30 min with my mom. Thing is, with back-to-back appointments, it's hard to be on time. But you know that right, mr. medical student.

This is not late. Most clinics have policies about when to check in and normal wait times. Most of the scheduled appointment time isnt even really intended to be spent with the doc. Nurses and other staff will be doing your workup, and if the physician gets to you 20 min after you get into your room, this really is doing pretty good.

To be fair, this is why they have a "waiting room". If it were somehow unexpected to have to hang out for a bit in order to be seen, such a room would be kinda silly, wouldnt it?

Are you one of those people that expects to show up at 8:01 for an 8:00 appointment and the doctor will be waiting patiently for you in your exam room?
and if you had actually shadowed (or paid attention) it should have been apparent to you that the doctor had started a case in some capacity well before the appointment time. The fact that a patient sits in a room for 10 minutes before seeing the physician doesn't make the physician late.

 

[SpecterGT260]

now, if a doctor was getting behind on patients because he or she didnt show up to work on time, you can bet this would be an issue with the practice or hospital administration.

 

[Corina]

The point is, I don't think anyone has their panties in a bunch. Nobody is saying the OP is a bad person - just that this should have been obvious before it became a problem. The people who pull the "deer in headlights' response when they routinely roll into work whenever it strikes their fancy have always been hard to understand.

and how is saying it is inappropriate to show up late pre-arranged times not chill? its just a statement. 😉 its ok, you're new. Ill give you some time to acclimate to the internetz

Nah, I was just saying that people like you were practically exploding over this. In fact, some of the comments were downright offensive and short-sighted.

I'm still trying to get used to the fact that SDN users prefer to judge rather than understand. For people who like to portray themselves as caring and compassionate on apps, this wasn't quite what I was expecting.

You, my friend, are a very special type of person. If I ever meet you, I will make sure to show up 30 min. ahead of time.

Edit: oh hey, sometimes that family physician was like 1 hr late. Patients were annoyed about it, but she connected really well with them, so they kept going to her. And when I say late, I really mean 20-30+ min...

also you really do need a chill pill. esp. since you're kind of raging like whoa in all of your posts. that or you always have some sort of catty remark. relax bro

 

[SpecterGT260]

Nah, I was just saying that people like you were practically exploding over this. In fact, some of the comments were downright offensive and short-sighted.

I'm still trying to get used to the fact that SDN users prefer to judge rather than understand. For people who like to portray themselves as caring and compassionate on apps, this wasn't quite what I was expecting.

You, my friend, are a very special type of person. If I ever meet you, I will make sure to show up 30 min. ahead of time.

🙄 one can be understanding without condoning behavior. I love this argument out of the pre-med group. Nothing equates compassion or understanding with being accepting of, tolerant of, or blind to obvious problems in behavior. Now, do I think tardiness is some ultimate sin? No. I just think it is ridiculously easy to avoid, or ridiculously easy to explain ahead of time because 99.99% of the time our lives are all pretty routine. Telling the OP he shoulda seen this coming isnt uncaring or uncompassionate.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Edit: oh hey, sometimes that family physician was like 1 hr late. Patients were annoyed about it, but she connected really well with them, so they kept going to her. And when I say late, I really mean 20-30+ min...

also you really do need a chill pill. esp. since you're kind of raging like whoa in all of your posts. that or you always have some sort of catty remark. relax bro

Im perfectly relaxed. Work on not being so sensitive because pretty much everything said in type can be interpreted based on your own emotional state, bra (wait is the feminine form of bro?.... )

Also, I think you missed my LOTR reference in that earlier post on arriving when he means to. Nobody is saying that docs are incapable of being late. But having to sit in a room and wait on your doc doesnt necessarily make him late. You will understand this if you ever make it into medicine 🙂

 

[Corina]

No, I still think you're pretty catty. I'm a girl, and I've seen these techniques replayed many times between other girls on some serious PMS.

Like you said, you're a non-german who gets upset when his friends are 10 min. late to a movie. I understand perfectly. I understand that you feel disrespected when they/your girl date make you late to a $13 movie. 😉

I also understand that you're probably the kind who can't stop one-upping somebody else, so this will be my last post.

 

[Barcu]

I am one of those people that get annoyed with people who routinely show up late to things, even for informal things like movies/dinners/etc.

Being routinely late is selfish. You may not think it is a big deal or it is irrelevant. However, it shows to me that you don't think my time is important. And that annoys me. And there are a lot of people out there like me in the world, so you should always keep that in mind. You can question it, or tell us to "chill out." But bottom line, these people are forming opinions about you. And an "it's no big deal" attitude is not helping your case. These people may be your boss or in charge of your career direction. Just keep that in mind. Saying we shouldn't freak out so much is not going to change that.

Lucky for you, there is an extremely easy solution to this problem: show up on time. It's really not that difficult. That's the funniest thing about this argument. No one is asking you to be heroic here, just BE ON TIME! It's ok to be late every once and a while if something comes up. We understand that, especially if you are usually on time. However, there is no excuse for being routinely late.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I also understand that you're probably the kind who can't stop one-upping somebody else, so this will be my last post.

The pseudo high road is pretty easy to see through 😉.

 

[Ashley1989]

holy crap are you german or something? i'd be scared to go to the movies with you. 😛

take a chill pill dude.

Wtf do Germans have to do with anything? Way to dumb yourself down 50 points with this comment.

 

[Claudin]

This is how I deal with my friends who are routinely late:

If I want something to happen at 6, I tell them to arrive at 5:30. Then I'll be there at 6, and only have to wait for 5 - 10 minutes.

True story.

 

[Pattycake25]

Those are questions only you can answer for yourself.

Trust yourself. My former friend got a 29, has zero clinical experience or research and she got in to 5+ medical schools and is not disadvantaged or URM.

...And how many of those schools were MD?

I mean, it's possible, but I have a VERY hard time believing someone could be successful with only a decent MCAT and poor ECs, based on what you've said.