fired from residency

[AnneMD]

question. my program director has decided not to renew my contract. No valid reasons have been given, nor has he followed any of the procedures for dismissing a resident listed in our handbook. My advisor, a good friend of the director has also not been able to elicit a valid reason for this decision and basically thinks it's a "witchhunt". No disciplinary action has even been taken against me until he made this decision to fire me. My evaluations have all been good. None of the attendings have any problems with me. Basically his entire case against me boils down to one bad nursing evaluation and one nurses complaint. My question is, what are my options. I want to complete my residency. I don't feel like moving. I like my colleages enough to stick it out and complete the program despite the director having it out for me. And even if I wanted to find another program, most of them that i'd be interested in don't have any openings. So basically what are my options??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Congratulations on the match to those 4th years. Word of advice...watch your back!!! hahaha

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[windycitygirl]

I don't know too much about this, never having been a resident before, but if your program director is being a jerk, I would do two things:

1) contact your medical school and tell them your are an alumnus (? is that the right term?) and make an appointment with the student affairs dean ASAP--I know at my school they would definitely advise you, if not help you seek out a new spot. You may also want to talk to the department chair/program director at your medical school to see what advice they have.

2) contact a lawyer to find out what your legal rights are.

good luck.

 

[jackjinju]

That seems highly reasonable to me. Good luck, I'm not sure what you allegedly did, but it definitely seems worth it for you to explore you defense options.

 

[jdog]

question. my program director has decided not to renew my contract. No valid reasons have been given, nor has he followed any of the procedures for dismissing a resident listed in our handbook. My advisor, a good friend of the director has also not been able to elicit a valid reason for this decision and basically thinks it's a "witchhunt". No disciplinary action has even been taken against me until he made this decision to fire me. My evaluations have all been good. None of the attendings have any problems with me. Basically his entire case against me boils down to one bad nursing evaluation and one nurses complaint. My question is, what are my options. I want to complete my residency. I don't feel like moving. I like my colleages enough to stick it out and complete the program despite the director having it out for me. And even if I wanted to find another program, most of them that i'd be interested in don't have any openings. So basically what are my options??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Congratulations on the match to those 4th years. Word of advice...watch your back!!! hahaha

A few things. I am not saying that you are embellishing things, but this seems like an unheard of scenario and it seems like you are taking this way too lightly. There is a chain of command in every hospital system. The program director is not the highest authority. Have you talked to the chairmen of peds. Have you talked to the chief of staff of the hospital. Have you talked to the director of residency programs in general.

Next, there is a concept called wrongful termination. I say if you are really being fired for only a nurse evaluation, that is totally unreasonable, so I would start documenting everything, make copies of all of your evaluations, and lawyer up. Your PD may think he is tough, but a lawyer will make the PD and the residency and hospital in general very nervous and revisit the situation.

Just out of curiosity,
1. Are you an IMG
2. Are you at community or academic

 

[Big Lebowski]

If you are accurate on the facts of your dismissal, I think they will have a very hard time being able to remove you if you apply some pressure to stay. Though I find it hard to believe your contract is not being renewed solely due to a nursing complaint and a single nursing evaluation...makes no sense. If you've had good feedback from your services, the attending physicians like you, you're in good academic standing, and you have not been grossly negligent...they will have little to work with.

You should have also been given the appropriate internal procedures prior to dismissal. Your program director should have given you feedback about your performance and ways to correct whatever deficiencies exist. You probably should have been allowed a probationary status prior to outright dismissal, particularly if this is due to just nursing evals. But even if the attendings were concerned, most residents are often placed on probation before they are let go. Also, you should have the right to due process in the case of dismissal. I do not think the PD has the power to dismiss you. I think he can make the recommendation, but it must be reviewed by the housestaff committee and this process can generally be appealed. I'd meet with your PD or the chairperson and know exactly the conditions of dismissal.

Get a lawyer...

 

[csmith1]

You probably should have been allowed a probationary status prior to outright dismissal...
Get a lawyer...

She was on double-secret probation. Is the program director named 'Wormer' by any chance?

 

[njbmd]

question. my program director has decided not to renew my contract. No valid reasons have been given, nor has he followed any of the procedures for dismissing a resident listed in our handbook. My advisor, a good friend of the director has also not been able to elicit a valid reason for this decision and basically thinks it's a "witchhunt". No disciplinary action has even been taken against me until he made this decision to fire me. My evaluations have all been good. None of the attendings have any problems with me. Basically his entire case against me boils down to one bad nursing evaluation and one nurses complaint. My question is, what are my options. I want to complete my residency. I don't feel like moving. I like my colleages enough to stick it out and complete the program despite the director having it out for me. And even if I wanted to find another program, most of them that i'd be interested in don't have any openings. So basically what are my options??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Congratulations on the match to those 4th years. Word of advice...watch your back!!! hahaha

Hi there,
I am sorry to hear that this happend to you and I am sure that you are devastated but you have some options:

1. There is always an internal grievence system that you need to put into motion. Information about this process can be found in the employee's handbook or resident's handbook. You need to find out what the grievence process involves and start the ball rolling. There is usually a resident advocate (not your faculty advisor) who should be able to assist you in this process. Find out who this person is and get moving.

2. You need to find outside legal representation as soon as possible. If you were not evaluated on a regular basis and if you were not given a chance to reply to your evaluations, correct any deficiences that you have or answer any charges that were made, this needs to be documented and presented to your legal representative. Having an outside lawyer is good for any future litigation that may need to be pursued. These cases frequently become very expensive for hospitals and are frequently settled out of court.

3. Make sure that your performace is outstanding from this point on. Dot every I and cross every T. Try to do your best even though you are going through a very trying process. You can fold your tent and leave quietly (which may be what your residency director is hoping for) or you can fight back and fight for your job. Excellence is a very good way to start the battle

4. It is highly unlikely that a single nursing complaint can result in a total trashing of your career so have your faculty advisor ferret out everything that could be potentially damaging to your case. Your faculty advisor should also ferret out anything that is positive in your case too.

5. This may be a good time to look for other programs as your back-up plan. You may not have to move onto another program but you should have a solid back-up plan so you are not sitting out of residency.

This happened to a very good friend of mine who was able to get the decision reversed. He later said that once the residency director found out that he knew the process, the whole thing was dropped very quickly. The good thing is that the residency director has never bothered him again.

Good luck
njbmd

 

[doc0875]

I can tell you that it is probably a waste of time & money to get a lawyer. The only situation where an attorney might help you is if you were somehow discriminated against or fired due to race, sex, etc. Otherwise, attorneys & courts want nothing to do with cases like thse. They basically give almost sole discretion to the program directors because the attorneys/courts are obviously not doctors & can't ascertain if you were really clinically competent or not. Also, in general any residency contract is not worth the paper it is written on. If in fact you had absolutely no bad evaluations you MIGHT have a case, but I still doubt it. The hospital legal department will always have deeper pockets ($$$) than you & will make you say "uncle" wat before they will in a law suit. I think your best option is to look into other residency programs.

 

[f_w]

Don't play nice here. Fight it with all the instruments you have.

Every institution has a drawn out process for termination of residents, insist on the process to be followed. If your account of the issue is correct, it will be close to impossible to remove you against your will. If you are complacent and hope for it to go away, he might be able to get away with it just based on administrational lethargy.

- If you are terminated from your residency, it will profoundly ruin your medical career in the US. Anytime you have to apply for a state medical license, hospital privileges or insurance enrollment, you will be asked 'have you ever been dismissed from a residency program or put on probation'. A dismissal it seems is given far more weight than other stuff like an addiction problem or a criminal record.

- get a lawyer. Not necessarily to sue them, but rather to help you through the process. It'll cost you now, but given the tremendous damage to your career that this can cause it is money well spent.

- collect the dirt on your PD or the nurse involved. You have to find allies in the department, preferably at the attending level. If they decided to go through the RRC mandated termination procedure, a good attorney can allways spin it into a gender/skin-tone/sexual orientation story exposing the hospital to significant financial risk.

- I have seen a couple of residents in other programs beeing terminated. But all of them were complete tools and a menace to their patients. And even then, it required stacks of horrible evaluations, remedial training attempts and failed probation periods without improvement. In the end it was a decision at the level of the institutional GME committee, not the PD alone.

- be careful to do outstanding work from this point on. Don't talk too much about it, try to make your allies at the faculty level quietly. Stay away from that nurse and her friends. Put every communication with the PD in writing with a cc to the department chairman and the head of the institutional GME committee.

 

[Big Lebowski]

I can tell you that it is probably a waste of time & money to get a lawyer. The only situation where an attorney might help you is if you were somehow discriminated against or fired due to race, sex, etc. Otherwise, attorneys & courts want nothing to do with cases like thse. They basically give almost sole discretion to the program directors because the attorneys/courts are obviously not doctors & can't ascertain if you were really clinically competent or not. Also, in general any residency contract is not worth the paper it is written on. If in fact you had absolutely no bad evaluations you MIGHT have a case, but I still doubt it. The hospital legal department will always have deeper pockets ($$$) than you & will make you say "uncle" wat before they will in a law suit. I think your best option is to look into other residency programs.

I disagree with doc0875. One of our internal medicine residents was going to be fired from residency for much more significant problems than AnneMD spelled out....though I still think there is more going on than what she stated. Anyway, he had gotten a lawyer and the university quickly backed down. The fact that he was not given any feedback or a probationary status made the program look as if they were setting him up to fail. The lawyer pointed this out and, in good faith, the program should have been monitoring the progress and competency of the resident in training. The program is responsible for educating, not assessment and dismissal without any attempts to rectify (unless there a big issues with ethical implications). Once the lawyer was involved, the university started to back pedal. The resident still decided to resign, but got a lot in return from the program for his resignation. Nobody likes to be sued regardless how much money you have at your disposal. Not to mention, the devasting PR effect a lawsuit could have on your training program. Word of mouth counts for a lot and potential applicants may be wary to pursue a program involved in legal battles with its resident.

 

[PairODocs]

I can tell you that it is probably a waste of time & money to get a lawyer. The only situation where an attorney might help you is if you were somehow discriminated against or fired due to race, sex, etc. Otherwise, attorneys & courts want nothing to do with cases like thse. They basically give almost sole discretion to the program directors because the attorneys/courts are obviously not doctors & can't ascertain if you were really clinically competent or not. Also, in general any residency contract is not worth the paper it is written on. If in fact you had absolutely no bad evaluations you MIGHT have a case, but I still doubt it. The hospital legal department will always have deeper pockets ($$$) than you & will make you say "uncle" wat before they will in a law suit. I think your best option is to look into other residency programs.

Bad advice.....

You should immediately get a lawyer. The contract is a legal document. I have seen similar situations arise and those that have fared well had attorney involvement from the start. One of the greatest hazards for physicians is their fear/ inexperience with the legal field and the subsequent avoidance of lawyers....

Angry patient (who might sue)=call your lawyer!
New Job Contract= call your lawyer!
Threat to Job or Partnership or business= call a lawyer!
When in doubt=call a lawyer!

Thanks,
soon-to-be MD, but accepted to Duke, Berkeley, UPenn and Columbia Law Schools in 1997 and worked in law for a while

 

[SoonerBJJ]

I think there is more to this story than you are telling or more than you are aware of. Residency programs do not fire people for frivolous reasons. They need the manpower and there are too many people looking for lottery tickets in the form of lawsuits. It is simply too much trouble for them if it isn't for a good reason (and a nursing eval doesn't count).

I know of a similiar situation at my institution where a resident was terribly incompetent. She skated through the first several rotations because she had very active upper level residents who picked up the slack, so she flew under the radar. She was fortunate to have a few attendings were too easy and didn't flunk her when they should have. All of her face-to-face evaluations were fairly harsh but she didn't understand what they were trying to tell her. Everyone expected that someone else would be the one to finally nail her. It didn't happen until the end of the year when she was about to become an upper level resident. She threatened to sue the attending for "ruining her career" and the department when they questioned renewing her contract. It turned into a major headache for the department. They were paying for their cowardice. Fortunately she was transferring to another specialty and out of the program.

Point being there are 2 sides to every story and residency programs don't fire people for no reason.

 

[csmith1]

...there are 2 sides to every story ....

add a third side...the truth, which usually lies in the middle.

 

[WheelMan]

have you tried talking to your director and asking nicely about the reasons for not renewing your contract? well, some things just get worse coz people dont communicate, so its better to talk to your director directly.

 

[Peds ERDoc]

Although I appreciate everyone's opinion here, forgive me for being blunt, but you are all thinking with yuor herats instead of your heads.

I am a chief resident in a large pediatric residency in the Midwest. I speak from personal experience in dealing with these matters.

Every resident is signed to a one year contract. Period. All program directors and residency programs retain the right to not renew a contract for almost any reason. In our program, all residents are brought before the residency review committe for a vote annually. it is at that time that the committee can vote to either renew or decline to offer aposition for the next PGY year.

All residencies and medical schools have a grievance committee to which you can take complaints about the process.

However, to be clear, it is the right of any program to decline to offer a contract at any time for any reason.

Sorry for your luck.

 

[ny skindoc]

have you tried talking to your director and asking nicely about the reasons for not renewing your contract? well, some things just get worse coz people dont communicate, so its better to talk to your director directly.

I agree there is likely more to this situation than we know (ie the exact nature of the complaint).At this point talking to the director is not likely to help much, asit seems like his mind has been made up. A lawyer should be consulted who can fully evaluate the situation and suggest a resonable course of action.Many will be happy to take you as a client,if you pay their fee-its not a "contingency" case.Once a lawyer gets involved a program may back down if they think you will pursue the matter seriously.If that does not work out at least try to negotiate a letter from your program which will help you secure a new position elsewhere.Failure of the program to help you in some way could open them up for serious litigation.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Although I appreciate everyone's opinion here, forgive me for being blunt, but you are all thinking with yuor herats instead of your heads.

I am a chief resident in a large pediatric residency in the Midwest. I speak from personal experience in dealing with these matters.

Every resident is signed to a one year contract. Period. All program directors and residency programs retain the right to not renew a contract for almost any reason. In our program, all residents are brought before the residency review committe for a vote annually. it is at that time that the committee can vote to either renew or decline to offer aposition for the next PGY year.

All residencies and medical schools have a grievance committee to which you can take complaints about the process.

However, to be clear, it is the right of any program to decline to offer a contract at any time for any reason.

Sorry for your luck.

Peds ERDoc is correct.

 

[shellfish]

I know of a similiar situation at my institution where a resident was terribly incompetent. She skated through the first several rotations because she had very active upper level residents who picked up the slack, so she flew under the radar. She was fortunate to have a few attendings were too easy and didn't flunk her when they should have. All of her face-to-face evaluations were fairly harsh but she didn't understand what they were trying to tell her. Everyone expected that someone else would be the one to finally nail her. It didn't happen until the end of the year when she was about to become an upper level resident. She threatened to sue the attending for "ruining her career" and the department when they questioned renewing her contract. It turned into a major headache for the department. They were paying for their cowardice. Fortunately she was transferring to another specialty and out of the program.

This is a very scary story for us incoming house officers. Aren't interns insecure enough as it is about their competency? This just makes me more nervous about beginning residency.

 

[f_w]

In reality, residents get rarely fired. And if so, it is a long drawn out process involving evaluations, remedial training, counseling etc. (unless it involves sexual misconduct, then all your due process rights go out the window)

 

[SoonerBJJ]

This is a very scary story for us incoming house officers. Aren't interns insecure enough as it is about their competency? This just makes me more nervous about beginning residency.

Are you serious?

The coddling is over. You will soon be a doctor and you will be responsible for the lives of others.

Step up and embrace the challenge and the responsibility.

 

[xanthines]

Correct doesn't mean you won't have a chance in the legal world. Not to bash the lawyers but this IS the realm in which tomatos are considered vegetables instead of fruits, as well as other nonsensical oddities. For serious.

Get a lawyer anyway. A good one may be able to establish a precedence of renewal over their little "we have the right to fire you at any time we please" gotcha. This is especially true in states where the law is more on "your side" in wrongful termination cases.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer or physician.

-X

Peds ERDoc is correct.

 

[f_w]

The question is not whether it is fair and justified to fire a resident, the question is whether the program followed their own policies on resident termination.
If they did (and the OP didn't tell us 1/2 of the story), there is indeed not too much she can do. If they didn't a friendly letter from her attorney will put a sudden end to their urge to terminate her.

 

[thirdunity]

This makes me scared to even attempt med school - I have a history of not fitting in at places I work, and in most customer-oriented jobs, I've had coworkers often try to get me fired for no real reason at all - they'd try to pin anything on me. I think I am less awkward now, but still, it seems like a serious gamble. Nonetheless I was younger then, and I have time to get through premed and get some clinical experience.

 

[Visioncam]

I have seen awful residents get fired but also good residents. Unlike one post which says there is a chain of command, the decision can often be driven by one faculty member with an axe to grind.

As far as getting a lawyer, some bad lawyers out there exists. Some universities will not back down and will stonewall and fight even if they are clearly wrong. Look up a legal search engine (like Westlaw or LexisNexis) and you will see some cases were the residency was clearly on a witchhunt.

The university lawyer will claim that they have immunity. Non-state residency programs will use other ploys.

 

[AnneMD]

I appreciate all the advice. Wanted to update everyone. Yes those who said that it didn't "sound right" were absolutely true. It doesn't sound right. But after meeting with the chair, the program director, my advisor etc. I still have not received one valid reason for my contract NOT being renewed. I've also been told that a lawyer would not help this situation. I did finally receive a copy of all my evaluations and a letter from the director regarding my not having my contract renewed and there is still nothing in there regarding incompetence etc. I am at a small program...in a very conservative and closed-minded town. There is probably a component of sexism/racism/out-sideism...but there is no way to prove that. What I've decided to do is move on...but the question is...and this is the one I want the chief residents to answer more pointly...how do you suppose I move on from this...I've decided to get the hell out of pediatrics..I love the kids..but all of this has really left a sour-taste in my mouth..and in fact go back through the match next year in something...I have no clue in what at the moment...but this will always follow me..and because no clear valid reason has been given..I have no clue what to say....I know whatever I do ..I can't bad-mouth the program..which is really what I want to do...but I know that is not the way things need to be done...it's really sad..cuz I'm still working..finishing out the year...and everywhere I go I hear.."you're such a good doctor"...and I want to scream "so why are y'all firing me"...my patients are all really upset...one parent broke down crying when I told her...so how do you explain something at the next interview..when you really have no clue what the problem is/was...to be honest with you...my thought is that they needed the money...they had offered someone a third year position...and then one of the med-peds people switched to all peds...and they were short in the funds...hahaha...

 

[SoonerBJJ]

I am at a small program...in a very conservative and closed-minded town. There is probably a component of sexism/racism/out-sideism...but there is no way to prove that.

Yeah if all else fails play the discrimination card. I'm sure they're all just racists.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

trust me..do family...you get more variety in procedures...patients..etc..plus...you will see nothing but crazy parents who bring their kids in every single damn day for a virus that you can never treat to their satisfaction...and after seeing 30 of those a day for the next 50 years..you will regret not having the variety...

plus...in family medicine..they treat you like an adult from day one...in peds residency..they treat you like a child...

Got this from another thread. Maybe this attitude is why you got fired.

 

[f_w]

> I've also been told that a lawyer would not help this situation.

Says who ?

Move on, get a different residency, but give them a run for their money. There is allways some lawyer who is willing to file a million$$ discrimination and wrongful termination suit, not to win, just to go home with a comfortable settlement during discovery (that is the point when they start to realize that you are going to follow through with this). All this will take a couple of years and you will have graduated by then, I would just do it for the fun of it.

Good idea to get out of peds (little people, little money, little respect)

Actually, by now you don't have to go through the match. If you want to do FP, or IM, there are allways a couple of spots opening up in july if some FMG can't take the job due to visa issues or someone doesn't show up bc they have found something better.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

There is allways some lawyer who is willing to file a million$$ discrimination and wrongful termination suit, not to win, just to go home with a comfortable settlement during discovery

Good idea to get out of peds (little people, little money, little respect)

More great advice.

We know all of society benefits from such lawsuits.

Why do you post here?

 

[f_w]

> We know all of society benefits from such lawsuits.

Actually, if such a lawsuit serves to dissuade other programs from terminating residents (and screwing up their careers) with no good reason, then it does serve a purpose.

> Why do you post here?

The OP was given some advice which I know to be incorrect ('there is nothing you can do' 'they can fire you at will' etc.). I have seen residents getting terminated, and I have seen people who successfully fought it.


(My little jab at peds was fueled by my own frustration with the field. I personally left when I realized that most of my attendings were forced to drive even more decrepit cars than myself.)

 

[SoonerBJJ]

My little jab at peds was fueled by my own frustration with the field. I personally left when I realized that most of my attendings were forced to drive even more decrepit cars than myself.

Impressive.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

> (My little jab at peds was fueled by my own frustration with the field. I personally left when I realized that most of my attendings were forced to drive even more decrepit cars than myself.)

I resemble that! My 4 yr old Subaru wagon does me quite fine.

Although it is a little weird that my secretary drives a Lexus

Remember, whoever dies with the nicest car, wins

Regards

OBP

 

[AnneMD]

actually this attitude didn't develop until I got fired...or let me put it more politically correctly.."my contract was not renewed"...it's funny cuz patient care has nothing to do with it...my PD is always saying how I'm capable of such "excellent work"..my clinical skills and fund of knowledge is wonderful...and my fellow interns and classmates we all get along great...or atleast that's the impression I get...the only thing I can think of is that I pissed off the wrong person and that person hold some very important cards with the program director..and c'est la vie..I'm out...but my primary goal is to take care of people...this has been stressful..but I'm trying to stay positive and look towards the future...if not peds..then something else...my only question is how am I going to explain this when I reapply through the match...cuz I have not been given a reason "why"...my evaluations are very good..even had one of the senior staff people look over them and he even told me that there is really not a leg to stand on...I even considered appealing..cuz they didn't go through due process...and even the chair and vice-chair offered to help me in any way that they could in looking for another job...I took them up on their offers...the vice chair wrote me the worst evaluation imaginable..and the funny part is...even in the letter..they point blank said they had never really worked with me....

yes..there is something fishy going on...so I'm looking forward to getting out of it all...but my question remains..how do I explain this???

 

[f_w]

> yes..there is something fishy going on...so I'm looking forward to
> getting out of it all...but my question remains..how do I explain this???

For a very long time you will have to explain to various people why you didn't finish your residency. Also, every time you are asked whether you were ever terminated from a residency you will have to put mark in the 'yes' box and explain why.

Just getting out of there might seem your top priority right now, but by accepting this lying down you are hurting your career in ways you don't even seem to grasp.

You are in dire need of some good legal advice. The least you can do is to force them to got through their own process.

 

[AnneMD]

you are right. I thought about the legal route, however. When I met with the chair/vice chair and brought up the subject of appealing, citing that I was 1) not told that they were not going to renew my contract at my last quarterly review with the PD just 3 weeks before being told no future contract and 2) I had received nothing in writing at this meeting, 3) never given a change to remediate or probation etc...all they did was quickly put together some paperwork and deliver it to me. Then they offered to help me and wrote the nasty LOR...Yes, they are fighting dirty...and yes, I tried to fight back by soliciting the support of other staff..and of course....everyone is scared ...worried about their own neck...you woudl really have to be from this area to realize what an "old boy's network" the system I'm in is really like...let's put it this way...it's so "old boy's" that despite pediatrics being a field with a large percentage of women...this place..you can count the number of female pediatricians on one hand...and you're looking at a staff of say 50.

but will this stop me from finding another position...and if asked..I know I'm going to have to just tell them truth...and just pray that I find another job

 

[GeneGoddess]

I resemble that! My 4 yr old Subaru wagon does me quite fine.

My Subie is only 2yrs old! I WIN!

 

[kas23]

My Subie is only 2yrs old! I WIN!

Hey cool! Maybe we should form a club! I have a 2002 Subaru Outback Sport.

 

[GeneGoddess]

Geeky subie owners unite! I'm a 2003 Forester (aka: station wagon on steroids).

 

[f_w]

I guess with my 02 Outback wagon I could hide in a crowd of pediatricians if I ever had to ;-)))

 

[ernie]

Engage your curent program director and other faculty members to HELP you find a new position.

A lot of people got fired from my residency program. In each case the staff helped them find a new position elsewhere - either in the same or a different specialty.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

.how do you suppose I move on from this...I've decided to get the hell out of pediatrics..I love the kids..but all of this has really left a sour-taste in my mouth..and in fact go back through the match next year in something...I have no clue in what at the moment...but this will always follow me..and because no clear valid reason has been given..I have no clue what to say....I know whatever I do ..I can't bad-mouth the program..which is really what I want to do...but I know that is not the way things need to be done..

Dear AnneMD:

Although I did hijack your thread a bit, I wanted to give you some advice based on your question of what to expect and do next. Regardless of what has happened to you, which I cannot really evaluate based on what is in this thread, you will be asked about it in future interviews. However, I believe that good interviewers will be less interested in "what" happened than in how this experience and others you have had in residency have shaped you and your future plans.

Therefore, I encourage you to write out, as clearly as possible some thoughts on how you have developed as a person and a physician and responded to adversity and what your career goals have become. If you focus on these issues in your interviews, essays, etc, I think you will have a much greater chance of securing a position that will fit you than if you try to emphasize your side of what happened in the past or make specific accusations about your previous training experiences. Try as much as possible to focus your statements, in writing and in person, on positives, both about yourself and your goals in medicine.

Good luck and best wishes

OBP

 

[Yasergale]

I am actually in the exact same problem you are in Anne. Except I conducted my offensive attack a little more discretely...went through the appeals....and the department withdrew their decision with exception of some probationary like actions. they did this before the appeals has gone all the way through. Reason being: no record of bad performance and passing all inservice exams. They violated all the GME policies (read the "Green" book). The entire process was literally like the cold war. Me vs the department and some residents coming by trying to extract information about my next move.

Obviously, the next move is to get a lawyer for the reason of:
1) Clearing your record
2) Letter of apology from the department.
3) Getting the f_ck outta dodge.

BUT...it's hard getting a lawyer (especially for free). I did a little reading on lexusnexus, it's not easy just getting a lawyer and winning some million dollar case. It is not actually illegal to fire someone because they don't like you. Discrimination cases are hard to prove.

So I was wondering if anyone or someone you know ACTUALLY been through this process would share some insight. Lawyer fees are 90-200 per hour with up to $5000 in retainer fees. We are talking close to $8000. Most residents can't afford this.

 

[njbmd]

you are right. I thought about the legal route, however. When I met with the chair/vice chair and brought up the subject of appealing, citing that I was 1) not told that they were not going to renew my contract at my last quarterly review with the PD just 3 weeks before being told no future contract and 2) I had received nothing in writing at this meeting, 3) never given a change to remediate or probation etc...all they did was quickly put together some paperwork and deliver it to me. Then they offered to help me and wrote the nasty LOR...Yes, they are fighting dirty...and yes, I tried to fight back by soliciting the support of other staff..and of course....everyone is scared ...worried about their own neck...you woudl really have to be from this area to realize what an "old boy's network" the system I'm in is really like...let's put it this way...it's so "old boy's" that despite pediatrics being a field with a large percentage of women...this place..you can count the number of female pediatricians on one hand...and you're looking at a staff of say 50.

but will this stop me from finding another position...and if asked..I know I'm going to have to just tell them truth...and just pray that I find another job

Hi there,
You need to take this through the grievance process. You may not win the grievance but you need to take this to it's conclusion. You need for them to document their reasons for not renewing your contract. This will prove invaluable as you seek another program since they really did not have a valid reason for letting you go.

As someone said, "contracts are for one year only" but that does not mean that they can just fail to renew your contract without a good reason. If you were in a categorical position, then there is a little more involved than just getting rid of you because a nurse doesn't like you. They made an investment in your career.

You need to get a lawyer after the grievance process. This person should be totally familiar with contract and employment matters. The chairman and program director are not your friends or your advisors. It is in THEIR best interest for you NOT to seek legal representation. Do you really care about THEIR best interests at this point? These people are not your advocates so don't listen to what they want you to do. It would be good for them if you go quietly but you cannot afford to do this. It is your career at stake. You need a good paper trail that brings some light on how they came to this decision. Your lawyer can also get copies of your evaluations which will enable you to have proof of your performance as you move into another program.

Continue to be the consumate professional as you have which means not saying anything derogatory about the program. Continue to to the best job that you can. Convince your fellow residents that if this happened to you, it can happen to them. Do THEY want to reman in a program like this?

You will get another program and you can finish your residency. Don't beat up on yourself because this decision appears to have been make incorrectly. You know that you have been a good physician and that in the right residency program, you will become a good pediatrician. Fight for what you want and fight for what you know to be true.

Good luck
njbmd

 

[Skip Intro]

Basically his entire case against me boils down to one bad nursing evaluation and one nurses complaint.

Okay. I read this whole thread, and this little morsel has not yet been adequately addressed. What did this nurse allege you did that was so egregious that it resulted in your contract not being renewed?

Give up the goods.

Continue to be the consumate professional as you have which means not saying anything derogatory about the program. Continue to to the best job that you can.

Assuming that this actually has been the case.

-Skip

 

[Yasergale]

Being in residency is just like any other job: there are some people that will try to get you no matter how hard you work, improve, or try to get along with them. Most of the time it just comes down to who you know.

In AnneMD's case, anyone could argue that there is more to the story. But if you're on the wrong side of the line with a key attending in the program, he/she WILL find something wrong no matter how small or menial it is.

Every resident makes mistakes. You're suppose to learn. Unfortunately, some attendings ARE that type of person that if they don't like you will try to expose everything you do.

 

[zoolander]

A friend went through the exact situation in another field- in her case they had an outside applicant (also 'not renewed' at another top-tier program) that the program wanted to bring in. They didn't tell her until early June, which needless to say was incredibly stressful.

A few things that came out of the process:

1. You do not want to be in this program any more. If the staff is out to fire you or someone, they will never be good advocates or supportive of you.

2. You want to get a transfer set up asap to go to a new program July 1st and keep your training on schedule.

3. There are quite a few spots outside the match that are open or can be made for people- be ready with CV, licensure, LORs, and people who can call on your behalf.

They other posters were right on target- your goals now should probably be to get the best recommendations possible in order to start at a new program. An attorney (esp one with experience w/ medical contracts) is probably a good part of that.

For my friend it turned out well- moved from a gen surg spot to combined plastics. I hope you find a great opportunity that you missed at first.

One Q: is having an unrenewed contract the same as being fired? It doesn't sound like it, you may be out of the woods with that one. Especially if you go directly into the following year at a different program.