First names vs. DR

[EPO]

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I'm starting my internal med clerkship on Monday and I'm wondering how residents and interns are addressed. As M3s, do we call them Dr. X or by their first names? Is there a standard custom or does it pretty much depend on the person? This is probably a dumb question, but I don't want to be making a major etiquette faux pas as their first impression of me.

 

[DrBowtie]

In life in general, always call your superiors by their title until told by them otherwise. You can never be wrong by going formal initially.

 

[Dr Alo]

Agree with Brett, just use your common sense. C'mon... your smart, you got into med school. Just do what is appropriate.

 

[phllystyl]

While I agree that this rule is good for live in general... I don't know one intern or resident that has EVAR made me use Dr.....

Attendings are different story, as there is only one attending who I have ever called by their first name.

 

[citygirl]

In life in general, always call your superiors by their title until told by them otherwise. You can never be wrong by going formal initially.

Agreed. Even if you are a first name basis with any of the doctors, be sure to always call them Dr. Whatever in front of patient's. No one wants to hear, "Bob and I will be back to check on you this afternoon."

 

[AJM]

OMG - definitely call your residents and interns by their first names! As an M3, you are MUCH closer to the housestaff in age and training than you will realize (especially to the interns). Attendings are the only ones you should start off calling 'Dr'.

 

[Pox in a box]

You can never be wrong with calling your superiors "Dr. <name here>." Many have introduced themselves by their first name but I continue to refer to them in conversation and directly to them by their title first.

 

[Samoa]

Agreed. Even if you are a first name basis with any of the doctors, be sure to always call them Dr. Whatever in front of patient's. No one wants to hear, "Bob and I will be back to check on you this afternoon."

This is such a difficult habit to acquire! I'm not used to being a position where I have to say anyone's name to anyone but another team member. I catch myself messing up on this at least once a day.

 

[DOtobe]

I would never make a med student on my service call me Doctor! When I was a med student I never called any resident "Dr. so and so."

Attendings, on the other hand, call Doctor. I would always have attendings introduce themselves as "Bob Smith" instead of "Dr. Smith," but it doesn't mean you can call them Bob!

 

[Samoa]

I would never make a med student on my service call me Doctor! When I was a med student I never called any resident "Dr. so and so."

Attendings, on the other hand, call Doctor. I would always have attendings introduce themselves as "Bob Smith" instead of "Dr. Smith," but it doesn't mean you can call them Bob!

That's not what I meant. I don't call the interns and residents "Dr." when I'm talking to them or to any of their colleagues or to other med students. But I definitely do when I talk to patients or to ancillary staff that don't round with us. And I think that's appropriate. It's just hard to remember to do because it's a formality no longer practiced in other situations. On the other hand, I always call the attendings Dr. unless they specifically ask me to call them by their first name. And so far none of them have done that, so Dr. it is. 🙂

 

[DrBowtie]

As I said earlier, the first time you meet call them Dr. Usually they will say call me Bob and then you say ok and call them Bob from there on out.

 

[DOtobe]

That's not what I meant. I don't call the interns and residents "Dr." when I'm talking to them or to any of their colleagues or to other med students. But I definitely do when I talk to patients or to ancillary staff that don't round with us. And I think that's appropriate. It's just hard to remember to do because it's a formality no longer practiced in other situations. On the other hand, I always call the attendings Dr. unless they specifically ask me to call them by their first name. And so far none of them have done that, so Dr. it is. 🙂

I understood your post, I wasn't replying to you. I was just giving my general two cents' worth. 🙂

I do the same thing with my fellow residents - call them Dr. Whatever when I am talking to patients.

 

[realmdo]

when you ask interns or residents name, they will tell you what they want to be called. all the interns and residents i meet so far like to be addressed by first name. attendings are different issue with exception. one ER M.D. insists me to call him first name, i think this is very interesting. he is an awesome guy, everybody likes him.

 

[bigfrank]

OMG - definitely call your residents and interns by their first names! As an M3, you are MUCH closer to the housestaff in age and training than you will realize (especially to the interns). Attendings are the only ones you should start off calling 'Dr'.

This is horrible advice.

 

[f_w]

Don't address interns/residents by their first name the first day. While 95% (including myself) will be fine with it, some might think you overstepped your bounds. And it can be a long 4 weeks if you ticked off your resident the first day.

Chances are, most will tell you to call them by their first name, just don't make assumptions.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Wow. I didn't realize there were residents that perferred to be called Dr. I feel that on a team in the hospital, being on a first name basis with your residents is expected. I felt really odd if any med student called me doctor and quickly corrected them. In med school, I called all my residents by first name. Now in residency, I call 95% of my attendings by first name (I think our program might be a little friendlier than others). If a resident from a clincal service calls me and says "This is Dr. So-and-So," I usually think they are pretentious.

I geuss my advice to med students would be to judge based on your interactions. If they introduce themselves as Dr. and have a an attitude that makes you think they are formal, they you should probably call them Dr at first until you get to know them better. In my experience in the friendly midwest, the vast majority will want to be referred to by their first name.

 

[StudKnight]

I cannot believe I'm reading this nonsense.

Here's the bottom line:

ANYONE IN TRAINING IS ADDRESSED BY THEIR FIRST NAME! THIS INCLUDES INTERNS, RESIDENTS AND EVEN FELLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!! IF SOMEONE IS OFFENDED BY BEING ADDRESSED BY THEIR FIRST NAMES, THEY'RE STUFFY LITTLE BIATCHES AND YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. IT WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR GRADE!

Once you finish your training, you're addressed as "Dr." by your subordinates.

So if you work with a fellow and you call him Jim as a 3rd year, and then you see him as a 4th year and now he's an attending, don't call him "Jim"...call him Dr. X and wait to see if he tells you to call him Jim.

 

[bigfrank]

ANYONE IN TRAINING IS ADDRESSED BY THEIR FIRST NAME! THIS INCLUDES INTERNS, RESIDENTS AND EVEN FELLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!! IF SOMEONE IS OFFENDED BY BEING ADDRESSED BY THEIR FIRST NAMES, THEY'RE STUFFY LITTLE BIATCHES AND YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. IT WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR GRADE!

This logic is embarrassing. If you offend an intern, resident, or fellow by calling them, "Hey Bob!" the first time you meet them, it could easily negatively impact your grade. FYI, there are lots of "stuffy little biatches" around in every specialty that certainly hold grudges.

Listen, M-3s: You need to do well this year, as most people consider your clerkship grades to be one of the most imporant parts of your application. If you want to take the risk of being that informal, then that is your decision. But, since so much of most people's clerkship grades is subjective (i.e., evaluations), why risk it?

 

[policymaker]

Damn, I had no idea this was such a big issue. When I started my medicine clerkship a week ago no one explicitly intraduced themselves to me, but I went with the flow and started calling my interns and residents by their first names, since that was how they were calling each other. No one has said anything about it one way or the other, and I certainly didn't get the impression taht anyone was offended.

Not that I can do anything about it now, should I have waited for them to tell me to call them by their first names? Should I apoligize when I see them tomorow?

 

[AJM]

This is horrible advice.

Interesting you think so, considering that I'm currently a fellow and have worked at approx 8 different hospitals, worked with med students from 3 different med schools, and worked with residents from 5 different programs. At no place I've been at do students address house staff as 'Dr.' I'm currently at what might be considered one of the most formal hospitals in the country, and even here the residents and fellows want the students to address us by our first names. (in fact, the attendings want us fellows to call them by their first names now, which is really hard for me to get used to, especially since I'm at an extremely old-school program. I still keep calling them Dr. So-and-So out of habit, and I'm starting to get made fun of...). I can count on one hand the number of times a student on my team has tried to call me Dr. Each time it has made me uncomfortable, and I remember to this day the students who have done this (and not in a good way – usually these students were very timid and got intimidated quite easily).

I don't mean to sound like I'm 'pulling rank' or anything, I'd just like you to know that I have some 1st hand experience in this.

Of course, if a resident on your team ever introduces themselves to you as "Dr.", they are being a complete prick, but you should probably call them Dr until they get over themselves. It'll probably only last about a day before you are on a 1st name basis anyway. (BTW I've also never heard of a resident introducing themselves to their students as Dr. before).


Policymaker -- this is *not* a big issue. It is expected that students call the housestaff by their first names, and no one ever makes a big deal about it. Do not by any means apologize to your resident and interns for being on a first name basis with them -- it will just draw attention to the issue and make them feel weird.

 

[doc05]

call everyone "Dr." most everyone will insist you call them by their first name. the exception is attendings. always use "dr.", "sir" or "ma'am"

 

[dynx]

Ask yourself these simple questions:
1. Could I ever possibly offend a MD by calling them doctor the first time I meet them? answer...nope, they will tell you to call them by their first name and never even take note of the encounter.
2. Could I ever possibly offend an MD by calling them by their first name the first time I meet them? Yep! I agree it will be rare, but there are people with a chip on thier shoulder and they will get a bad first impression of you. These are the people writing you an evaluation. You want to take the risk, go ahead.

I like these people telling you that they never demand to be called doctor. They never wanted to be called doctor at this place they never wanted to be called doctor at that place...GOOD FOR YOU! CONGRATS ON BEING SO WELL ADJUSTED!! now STFU cause you don't know what you are talking about and you could cause someone to get a bad eval for a stupid and so easily avoided reason. Guess what? I've eaten at tons of peoples houses and if someone belches I never get offended...that means it could never offend anyone and people should burp away whenever they eat out right?

It takes no effort to call someone Dr. the first time you meet them and have them tell you to call them Bob.

It can be a long clerkship if you offend some jerk who demands to be called doctor by their first name on the first rotation.

 

[dynx]

call everyone "Dr." most everyone will insist you call them by their first name. the exception is attendings. always use "dr.", "sir" or "ma'am"

If what you are saying is to call your attending Dr. no matter what, then I disagree with this too. If the attending tells you to call him by his first name, call them by their first name when you are talking privatly. I think its more respectfull to address people how they wish to be adressed. You could be making them uncomfortable calling them doctor all the time.

 

[policymaker]

Policymaker -- this is *not* a big issue. It is expected that students call the housestaff by their first names, and no one ever makes a big deal about it. Do not by any means apologize to your resident and interns for being on a first name basis with them -- it will just draw attention to the issue and make them feel weird.

Thanks AJM, that's a load off my mind.

 

[Smurfette]

Seriously folks, a couple people here who are disagreeing with the majority are confusing things for the younger folks.

Bottom line: call residents on your team by their first name. Generally any other resident you meet will be called by their first name. Any resident who insists to be called "Dr. X" is likely not student-friendly and the fact that you called them by their first name once as is protocol (every time they get a new student this likely happens and thus is NOT a shocking thing) will not be a reason for them to make your life hell---they probably would make your life hell regardless. If any students call me "Dr." I quickly correct them...and if they do it after that I think the student is weird.

Call attendings "Dr. X" until told otherwise. Fellows I also would call Dr. X until told otherwise.

 

[f_w]

25 posts about an issue that is so easy to handle and almost never rises to anyones attention during your training. The best advice in this thread is the one I quote here:

1. Could I ever possibly offend a MD by calling them doctor the first time I meet them? answer...nope, they will tell you to call them by their first name and never even take note of the encounter.

Well, apparently there are a couple of 'reverse stuck ups' around here who will get offended if you address them as 'Dr'. You can't win.

2. Could I ever possibly offend an MD by calling them by their first name the first time I meet them? Yep! I agree it will be rare, but there are people with a chip on thier shoulder and they will get a bad first impression of you. These are the people writing you an evaluation. You want to take the risk, go ahead.

Amen to that.
But I think it is less about evaluations. During my residency(ies), I have rarely been called upon to give the formal evaluation for a medstudent. This was typically the attendings job. At times they would ask us residents mainly if they didn't have a lot of interaction with a particular student. The area were offending someone unneccessarily is going to hurt you is teaching. A lot of the 'hands on' teaching is done by residents, if you ticked off your resident or intern, this is the area you are going to suffer.

If students address me as 'Dr' the first day of the rotation, I will just say 'call me f' and that is the end of it (and this is how 99% of residents and fellows will probably handle this). But residents come from various cultural backgrounds, just because it is common that residents are addressed by their first name, don't assume you have a 'right' to do so.

 

[AJM]

Seriously folks, a couple people here who are disagreeing with the majority are confusing things for the younger folks.

Bottom line: call residents on your team by their first name. Generally any other resident you meet will be called by their first name. Any resident who insists to be called "Dr. X" is likely not student-friendly and the fact that you called them by their first name once as is protocol (every time they get a new student this likely happens and thus is NOT a shocking thing) will not be a reason for them to make your life hell---they probably would make your life hell regardless. If any students call me "Dr." I quickly correct them...and if they do it after that I think the student is weird.

Call attendings "Dr. X" until told otherwise. Fellows I also would call Dr. X until told otherwise.

This is a very well put piece of advice.

For those of you who are still stuck on the "what if there's a 0.01% chance of my resident being pissed off if I call them by their first name" deal, you can go by the following rule:
If a resident introduces themselves to you as 'John', or 'John Smith', then just call them John as per protocol. If instead they introduce themselves as Dr. Smith, then call them Dr. Smith until otherwise corrected (I really don't see this last scenario ever happening, but to make you naysayers happy, I included it).

If an attending introduces themselves to you as 'John Smith', then call them Dr. Smith unless otherwise corrected.

Fellows are a gray area. Chances are they want you to call them by their first name, but if you are truly worried, start off calling them Dr. They will be much more likely than attendings to ask you to call them by their first names. It's not quite as unusual for med students to call fellows 'Dr', so they tend not to be as surprised about it as the residents.

 

[DrBowtie]

If students address me as 'Dr' the first day of the rotation, I will just say 'call me f' and that is the end of it. But residents come from various cultural backgrounds, just because it is common that residents are addressed by their first name, don't assume you have a 'right' to do so.

Amen. This is the BEST way to go without a doubt.

 

[oudoc08]

This may possibly be the most idiotic thread I've ever read. Don't people have anything better to do with their time than get their knickers in a twist over a stupid salutation?

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that you should "instictively" be able to figure out a person's expectation while you're walking up to introduce yourself to them. If they smile, laugh and extend their hand to say, "Hi, I'm X, one of your residents", then you can chill.
If you walk up to them, and extend your hand politely, and say "Hello, I'm X, your medical student", and they snort at you over their clipboard, you can pretty much resign yourself to addressing them as "doctor".

BTW, I would think that any person who has graduated medical school, whether intern, resident or attending, has earned the honor of being called "doctor" if they want to, but I'd think that anybody who wants to be called such in private by a colleague is in need of a de-sticking.

***crap, I'm dragging myself into the world's stupidest thread... later***

 

[12R34Y]

I really can't believe some of the advice here........ALWAYS call your interns/residents/fellows/attendings DOCTOR until told otherwise. That would be very stupid not to. I've never started off on my first day on any service calling someone I don't know by their first name. Good luck with that method.

later

 

[Dr Alo]

If any students call me "Dr." I quickly correct them...and if they do it after that I think the student is weird.

That's funny Smurfette. I have seen these "weird" students in action. They continuously apologize for something they didn't do, even after being told not to worry about it over 500 times. You know the type! 😉

 

[ericdamiansean]

Where I am from, people get titles, an equivalent to the "Sir" which they give in the UK, but more fanciful..

There are some senior doctors who have these titles, however, they have told us before that they would prefer to be addressed as "Dr" or "Prof" rather than these titles.

But so far, only one has told us to address him by his name as he said "We would all be colleagues someday.."

But yeah, I guess it could be rude to immediately call someone by their first name unless told to

 

[nutmegs]

I really can't believe some of the advice here........ALWAYS call your interns/residents/fellows/attendings DOCTOR until told otherwise. That would be very stupid not to. I've never started off on my first day on any service calling someone I don't know by their first name. Good luck with that method.

later

no thanks. when sticks their hand out and says "hi, I'm Holly" there's not a chance in hell I'm going to call her Doctor Smith and wait to get corrected 🙄

lotta kissasses in this thread... I love SDN... so far from reality 🙂

 

[f_w]

If someone introduces him/herself by their first name, you can safely assume that you can address them by their first name only (except in front of patients of course). But that was not the OP's question.

 

[Gerota]

I always call my attendings Dr. so and so and feel extremely uncomfortable calling them by their first name. They are not in training, and all members of a team, whether it be the Dispo planner to the student all work under the attending.

From the student to the fellow, you are all in training. So what someone has a MD diploma...you are all part of the same team and are collegues. I would never call my fellows Dr. so and so just because they have a diploma (Board educated/board ceritification). As such I would NEVER make my intern call me doctor, though I have a piece of paper they dont have, a medical licence.

The exception should ALWAYS be when you are in front of the patient, always refer to anyone regardless of level of training as Dr.....the fact that a 20-something intern named "Chuck" is taking care of a sick patient does not instill faith in a family.

Good luck on the wards new 3rd years, remember the only way to impress your residents is to bake us brownies qweek.....not calling us Dr.

Also put some hustle in your step, lose your attitude, and realize that no task is below you...if you dont do it the intern will (appreciate that you'll be an intern one day). Guaiac's, dressing changes, chart pulling etc. all has to be done by someone, so suck it up and be part of the team

 

[EPO]

As the OP, I want to thank you all for your input. I followed your advise and called everyone 'Dr' until they tell me to call them by their first name, and it's worked pretty well. Guess it wasn't such a big issue, like people said.

Now my next question: who has more input into my evaluation, the attending who sees me an hour a day for rounds, or the resident who I'm with everyday? The attending barely knows my name, and the only time he pays attention to me is when I present a patient. I'm still stumbling quite a bit since I'm just starting out, and I'm worried if this is the only thing my attending has to base his evluation of me on.

 

[gunit07]

this is really weird..... because any resident/fellow i've met has always involved an introduction of some sort.. ie: "hello, i'm dan" or... "i'm dr. smith"...

when i met my residents this month, they asked my my name, and then said 'i'm <first name>" and it's been first name basis the whole time...

oddly enough, someone refferd to the intern as dr. so and so... but not the cheif😛

i figure, go by how they introduce themselves to you - cuase usually those "biatches" introduce themselves as dr. and not by their first name.

also, the labs i've worked in, even the people who were fully trained wanted to be called by their first name, except the PI...
so i guess it all depends on how the dynamic is...

if all else fails, just try to get away with not having to say their name during the first day and see what everyone else does

I really can't believe some of the advice here........ALWAYS call your interns/residents/fellows/attendings DOCTOR until told otherwise. That would be very stupid not to. I've never started off on my first day on any service calling someone I don't know by their first name. Good luck with that method.

later

 

[DOtobe]

I honestly don't think this should be an issue with any medical student. When I introduced myself to the medical students on my service, I introduced myself by my first name. If I introduce myself by my first name, that is what I want you to call me. Just call your residents by what they introduce themselves to you as. (I hope no residents have actually introduced themselves to students as Dr. So-and-so. 🙄 )

 

[axm397]

The evaluations depend on the med school. Some med schools have residents (and interns) fill out evals in addition to attendings, others only require attendings. As a resident, I often get asked by attendings what I think of a particular medical student. More often than not, they just want a confirmation of what they already think. You may think you only spend an hour a day with an attending - but they notice more than you think.

 

[Teufelhunden]

It's funny how much variation there is on this. I'm an intern, and I still have residents that introduce themselves to me as Dr so-and-so...so of course I address them as "Doctor."

Hey, whatever makes them happy.