First Post

[DrNutmeg]

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Hi all,

I've been reading through the student doctor forums, and it seems like a lot of you have a super high gpa! great for you guys! not so great for me... Anyway, I'd like some input on whether or not I'm on track to be accepted to dental school.

About me (I will be a junior in the Fall):
Home State: California
Overall gpa: 3.18
Science gpa: 3.21
DAT: I plan to take it in the spring.
School: top 10 liberal arts college (the average acceptance to dental school is ~0.2 lower than at the average undergraduate school)
Volunteer hours: on pace to do ~100 volunteer hours this summer
Shadowing: going to do ~100 hours this Summer
Extra-curricular: 3 varsity sports

Why I want to be a dentist: I'm dexterous, I like science, and I love labs. I also would like to be in complete control of my career (own my own practice, and run it how I like, as opposed to reporting to a boss).

So, am I looking okay? Am I doing this for the right reasons? What score should I be gunning for on the DAT?

Any replies/advice is much appreciated!

 

[ajj70]

Best start getting all A's in your classes this year. Your GPA is pretty low. You will need probably a 23+ with that GPA for any serious consideration. How much shadowing have you done? What are your EC's? Your "why you want to be a dentist" needs work too.

 

[DrNutmeg]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I've done 23 hours of shadowing so far (I just started).
EC's: Fall sport, Winter sport, Spring sport (all at NCAA div. III level). I also have had a full time job for the past 3 summers.

As for getting all A's, I don't think I can do that; nobody graduates from my school with a 4.0 (well, it happens every 5 years or so). I've worked pretty hard for my 3.2, but getting it up to 3.3 or maybe 3.35 is not out of the question.

Will I need a 23+ for mid to low tier schools?

 

[ajj70]

Yes, GPA matters and the combination of the GPA/DAT needs to be at a certain level for consideration. Doc Toothache has all the data in the sticky post at the top of this forum "Guide to Dental Schools". There are no "tiers" really. Classes are hard everywhere and you will be going up against people with 4.0's and good DAT's. Being an athlete will help, you will need at least 100 hours of shadowing too.

 

[DrNutmeg]

Thanks again for the quick reply. Your input is valued.

I've skimmed Doc toothache's post and can't help but think that my 3.2 at a really hard school is going to be treated like a 3.2 at my local community college, where I would easily have a 4.0. Is this a false belief? Will my school's reputation help me?

 

[jsptr986]

cut back as much as possible on the EC's during school. you do need to make all A's your junior and senior years.

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

I've skimmed Doc toothache's post and can't help but think that my 3.2 at a really hard school is going to be treated like a 3.2 at my local community college, where I would easily have a 4.0. Is this a false belief? Will my school's reputation help me?

Not unless your school is known both for really strong academics and no grade inflation, like John Hopkins or Caltech. Aside from there and maybe a handful of other schools, no, I don't think your school's reputation is going to get your GPA overlooked. You mentioned your school is a liberal arts college in California, care to be any more specific?

 

[ajj70]

Thanks again for the quick reply. Your input is valued.

I've skimmed Doc toothache's post and can't help but think that my 3.2 at a really hard school is going to be treated like a 3.2 at my local community college, where I would easily have a 4.0. Is this a false belief? Will my school's reputation help me?

No one is saying that your grades will be the same as a Community College, but there are plenty of top liberal arts colleges nationally that rank up there where students are getting 4.0's or even 3.5's, which you are not. That is the reality. Your school might help some, but it's not going to make up for a B average. There are really hard colleges all over the place.

 

[DrNutmeg]

Not unless your school is known both for really strong academics and no grade inflation, like John Hopkins or Caltech. Aside from there and maybe a handful of other schools, no, I don't think your school's reputation is going to get your GPA overlooked. You mentioned your school is a liberal arts college in California, care to be any more specific?

I'm a CA resident, but I go to a liberal arts college on the East Coast. I actually selected it over Johns Hopkins (also a fine school) because I thought my school had a stronger natural science program.

I won't tell you which school (it's top 10 on US News and World), because you'd probably be able to figure out exactly who I am. We get 85%+ into medical school, and nobody has been rejected to dental school in the last 15 years, granted we only have ~3 applicants per admissions cycle. Our school is known for no grade inflation (average GPA is rumored to be 3.2 or 3.3).

If you think you could offer more insight, I will PM you where I go to school, but I'm not going to post it on the open forum.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[ajj70]

I'm a CA resident, but I go to a liberal arts college on the East Coast. I actually selected it over Johns Hopkins (also a fine school) because I thought my school had a stronger natural science program.

I won't tell you which school (it's top 10 on US News and World), because you'd probably be able to figure out exactly who I am. We get 85%+ into medical school, and nobody has been rejected to dental school in the last 15 years, granted we only have ~3 applicants per admissions cycle. Our school is known for no grade inflation (average GPA is rumored to be 3.2 or 3.3).

If you think you could offer more insight, I will PM you where I go to school, but I'm not going to post it on the open forum.

Thanks for all the replies!

It's great that you have those admissions stats. My school has 100% acceptance rate to both med and dental school and has for the past at least 5 years....and that is the point. There are good schools everywhere. You need better grades or a stellar DAT. You asked for help, and we are giving it to you, but don't fall back on the name of your school to overcome your GPA.

 

[DrNutmeg]

Yikes ajj70! (I'm sorry if I somehow offended you?)

I have heeded your advice and appreciated all of your input! I'm not trying to lower my gpa for crying out loud. I'm just wondering how gpas are standardized... There are indeed good schools everywhere, but not all gpas are scaled the same.

I'm curious where you go to school...

 

[ajj70]

Yikes ajj70! (I'm sorry if I somehow offended you?)

I have heeded your advice and appreciated all of your input! I'm not trying to lower my gpa for crying out loud. I'm just wondering how gpas are standardized... There are indeed good schools everywhere, but not all gpas are scaled the same.

I'm curious where you go to school...

I go to a top liberal arts college, also a varsity athlete on scholarship with a 3.69 GPA, 100+ shadow hours, 500+ volunteer hours and I'm still a year away from applying. GPA's are not standardized and that is the point. Your school will count for something, but again, it's not going to boost you up that high.

You haven't offended me at all. I'm just telling you like it is. Your school won't help you that much.

 

[DrNutmeg]

I can't find any schools with 100% admission to medical schools. Care to PM me you school's secret to guaranteed acceptance?

From the Williams website: "A Williams student with a B+ science GPA, an MCAT score of 32 or better, clear motivation and a reasonable set of extracurricular activities stands a very good (80%+) chance of admission in a given year. Nationwide, fewer than 50% of applicants are admitted in a given year."

 

[ajj70]

I can't find any schools with 100% admission to medical schools. Care to PM me you school's secret to guaranteed acceptance?

From the Williams website: "A Williams student with a B+ science GPA, an MCAT score of 32 or better, clear motivation and a reasonable set of extracurricular activities stands a very good (80%+) chance of admission in a given year. Nationwide, fewer than 50% of applicants are admitted in a given year."

A B+ is a 3.5 average and an MCAT of 32 is like a DAT of 23 or so...

No PM needed, school's secret is good students, good prep and med schools having good experiences with students from my school--that, however, is irrelevant because the med school process is different, computerized for round 1 so if you don't have the right GPA and MCAT, you are out of luck.

 

[DrNutmeg]

At my school, a B+ is 3.3. Where are you getting the 3.5 from?

A 32 MCAT is 87.2nd percentile. A 23 DAT is 99th percentile.

 

[super frank]

B+ is 3.33. Unless your school/course inflates grades.

 

[ajj70]

At my school, a B+ is 3.3. Where are you getting the 3.5 from?

A 32 MCAT is 87.2nd percentile. A 23 DAT is 99th percentile.

I was thinking AB score, yes, 3.3 is a B+.

We can keep going round and round about this but the average GPA last year was a 3.5 with a 19.9 DAT. With a 3.1 GPA, you are going to need a 23+ DAT. Do the math with your own GPA, unless you get at least A-'s for the rest of your classes next year, you aren't bringing your GPA up to a 3.5. A 32 MCAT with a 3.3 GAP is going to give you about a 50% chance of getting into Med school, a 3.1 GPA with about a 23 DAT will give you the same chance. It isn't about percentiles of the test scores, it's about what they are looking for in a student.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstable17.pdf

 

[DrNutmeg]

My school has 100% acceptance rate to both med and dental school

are you trolling?

3.69 GPA

are you very sure?

Anyway, more seriously, can you summarize your thoughts on gpas at different schools into one post? I'm having a difficult time untangling a few espcially contradictory posts.

Classes are hard everywhere and you will be going up against people with 4.0's and good DAT's.

GPA's are not standardized and that is the point.

 

[darknightzzz]

why do you care so much on how GPAs are standardized. Like ajj70 suggested, you need at least a 3.5 for safe zone with 21-22 DAT. lower than that you need to bust the DAT.

there are ways that dental school standardized GPA but the numbers still matter

student 1: 3.9 GPA with 22AA DAT that went to a top 50 60 school, same ECs

student 2: 3.3 GPA with a 21AA DAT that went to top 10 school, same EC

dental school will most likely take student 1. As long as you have the DAT that translates well from GPA (3.9GPA and score 18AA DAT shows grade inflation thus is not reliable), college ranking matters little.

there is a saying that if you want to get into dental school, go to a school (that offers a wide variety of ECs, research, volunteer) but ALSO you can get as high of the GPA as possible with no regard to the ranking.

 

[ajj70]

are you trolling?


are you very sure?

Anyway, more seriously, can you summarize your thoughts on gpas at different schools into one post? I'm having a difficult time untangling a few espcially contradictory posts.

It is not contradictory at all. The point is, someone with a 4.0 from a local state school with a 21 DAT will have a better chance of getting into dental school than you will with a 21 DAT with your GPA. So, in order to make yourself more competitive, you need to raise your GPA, which you said was impossible because your classes are "hard" or you need to get a 23+ on the DAT. Those, sir, are the facts. I hardly think someone with a post count that I have, vs your 8 posts is trolling....

You asked for help, you have been given help, yet you keep arguing the same point on a false argument that your school matters, it doesn't really. Yes, I am very sure of my GPA. I have my spreadsheet worked up with my 0GPA, sGPA, with +/- and w/0 +/- and all of the other variations I need. I have been on the dean's list every semester, academic all-american, academic all-conference. It's likely the textbooks my classes have are the same ones you have, the material is the same. Most of my OChem class got B's or worse. 3 of us got A's both semesters. Our classes are hard as well.

I'm afraid you got caught up in the name game and the erroneous assumption that because you went to whatever school you attend, that is your golden ticket to medical or dental school, but the reality is, going to whatever school will allow you to be best prepared for dental school and still have a high GPA is a better choice. Your 85% is likely highly filtered by your committee, same with your dental school acceptances, meaning, they don't support people they don't think can get into med/dental school to keep their yield high. Talk to the committee members at your school, present them with your situation and ask if they will be giving you a committee letter. Their answer might surprise you.

 

[strep mutans]

My school has 100% acceptance rate to both med and dental school and has for the past at least 5 years....and that is the point. There are good schools everywhere.

Your 85% is likely highly filtered by your committee, same with your dental school acceptances, meaning, they don't support people they don't think can get into med/dental school to keep their yield high.

So... your school's 100% acceptance rate isn't actually attributed to being a good school, but to having a picky committee?

 

[strep mutans]

I believe that a school's reputation does matter. Not necessarily it's reputation for challenging coursework, but it's reputation for turning out students who are prepared for and excel in health professional doctoral programs.

 

[joiedevivre86]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I've done 23 hours of shadowing so far (I just started).
EC's: Fall sport, Winter sport, Spring sport (all at NCAA div. III level). I also have had a full time job for the past 3 summers.

As for getting all A's, I don't think I can do that; nobody graduates from my school with a 4.0 (well, it happens every 5 years or so). I've worked pretty hard for my 3.2, but getting it up to 3.3 or maybe 3.35 is not out of the question.

Will I need a 23+ for mid to low tier schools?

Hey there. I also went to a top 10 school where "no one got a 4.0". Especially not pre-health students. Anyway, I had a sci and oGPA of like 3.35 but that was including some classes at a different school that were hella easier. Aim for 22+ on your DAT. I'm sure my undergrad "counted" for something at all of my interviews but at one my interviewer outright said "if you had gone to X university, you'd probably have a 3.9." Get your observation hours up too (I had 150+ at time of app), and I don't know what your non-dental volunteering hours are but you may want to work on those a little too (but obviously DAT and GPA are most important here). Aim for an upward trend your last year, and don't be discouraged from applying. I'm thankful for some of the ridiculously hard classes I've taken - I much prefer that than coming into dental school a little cocky from a higher undergrad GPA from an easier school.

 

[ajj70]

So... your school's 100% acceptance rate isn't actually attributed to being a good school, but to having a picky committee?

No less picky than any other school and technically we don't have a committee, or at least no formal committee letters. There are no restrictions from the school upon applying to med/dental, but if you are not a good student, it will be difficult to find someone to write LOR's. I have 3 profs that have already volunteered, along with my adviser and 2 dentists. I'm not all that worried unless I bomb the DAT, which I don't plan to do.

 

[DrNutmeg]

Hey there. I also went to a top 10 school where "no one got a 4.0". Especially not pre-health students. Anyway, I had a sci and oGPA of like 3.35 but that was including some classes at a different school that were hella easier. Aim for 22+ on your DAT. I'm sure my undergrad "counted" for something at all of my interviews but at one my interviewer outright said "if you had gone to X university, you'd probably have a 3.9." Get your observation hours up too (I had 150+ at time of app), and I don't know what your non-dental volunteering hours are but you may want to work on those a little too (but obviously DAT and GPA are most important here). Aim for an upward trend your last year, and don't be discouraged from applying. I'm thankful for some of the ridiculously hard classes I've taken - I much prefer that than coming into dental school a little cocky from a higher undergrad GPA from an easier school.

thank you for your input! I feel a little better now.

 

[taraDNA]

Hey Dr. Nutmeg! You are looking good in some areas, but there is still room for improvement in other areas as I'm sure you know and others have pointed out. I didn't decide to pursue dentistry until my junior year so I was a bit behind, but graduated a year later than expected so I would have sufficient time to make myself the best candidate possible. I would definitely say you should make grades and the DAT your TOP priority. Although your ECs will make you stand out, most schools won't look at your application until you reach a certain set average/threshold for them. I believe the average sgpa is a 3.3 and overall gpa is 3.5 with 19 AA DAT so aim for those numbers or higher (these #s may be outdated so use your discretion). The way schools standardize GPAs is through evaluating your DAT score, so make sure to do your best because I have seen many people get into dental school with lower GPAs but stellar DAT scores. Good luck!

 

[irishmom]

I'm just wondering how gpas are standardized...

Your DAT will tell Adcoms this. If you go to such a hard school, you should really have no problem getting 23+ on the DAT. It is the schools that degree inflate that will have applicants with high GPAs and lower DAT scores.