"fitting in" at all male program

[dragonfly99]

Hello. I never thought I would have this problem, but I thought that maybe I could get some helpful advice in the surgical forum. I'm the only woman in an otherwise all-male fellowship program (in IM). I really like the guys - everyone is very cool here and there is a good atmosphere overall. I also feel like the faculty here are the most supportive I've worked with (better than med school or residency). However, sometimes I just still feel like I'm socially "out of it". I mean, I just don't have all the same interests that the guys have and I honestly am not going to be able to do all the stuff they do. I'm pretty athletic but still if there is some sort of social event that involves sports (basketball game, foot race, etc.) obviously I'm going to lose big time, every time. I actually think it's nice that the fellows (and sometimes attendings too) actually do stuff together outside of work, but I just feel like I don't fit in and sometimes that I'm going to be a 3rd wheel if I show up at these things. I mean, I seriously doubt that a bunch of single guys going clubbing or to play golf, etc. really want me along. On the other hand, I don't want to seem unfriendly or that I'm not interested in being friends.

Wow, that sounded like a big time whine-fest. I honestly don't think this is anyone's fault (other than mine, maybe). I just have never been in this position before (since IM residencies all have tons of women). I think thing are exacerbated also by the fact that I moved out of state to somewhere where I knew nobody and had no social support system, and then started working kind of a lot of hrs (not surgical hours, but still not cakewalk work hours). I'm honestly just looking for advice on how I can make things better.

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[SocialistMD]

I'm honestly just looking for advice on how I can make things better.

Organize a night out to a bar. It will show the guys you are interested in hanging out and interacting with them socially and allow you to see if you actually want to hang out with them. You need to show the initiative, as if they haven't asked you to hang out yet, they may think you aren't interested.

 

[njbmd]

Hello. I never thought I would have this problem, but I thought that maybe I could get some helpful advice in the surgical forum. I'm the only woman in an otherwise all-male fellowship program (in IM). I really like the guys - everyone is very cool here and there is a good atmosphere overall. I also feel like the faculty here are the most supportive I've worked with (better than med school or residency). However, sometimes I just still feel like I'm socially "out of it". I mean, I just don't have all the same interests that the guys have and I honestly am not going to be able to do all the stuff they do. I'm pretty athletic but still if there is some sort of social event that involves sports (basketball game, foot race, etc.) obviously I'm going to lose big time, every time. I actually think it's nice that the fellows (and sometimes attendings too) actually do stuff together outside of work, but I just feel like I don't fit in and sometimes that I'm going to be a 3rd wheel if I show up at these things. I mean, I seriously doubt that a bunch of single guys going clubbing or to play golf, etc. really want me along. On the other hand, I don't want to seem unfriendly or that I'm not interested in being friends.

Wow, that sounded like a big time whine-fest. I honestly don't think this is anyone's fault (other than mine, maybe). I just have never been in this position before (since IM residencies all have tons of women). I think thing are exacerbated also by the fact that I moved out of state to somewhere where I knew nobody and had no social support system, and then started working kind of a lot of hrs (not surgical hours, but still not cakewalk work hours). I'm honestly just looking for advice on how I can make things better.

You listed a bunch of things that you believe are true about your colleagues that probably are not such as "i serously doubt that a bunch of single guys...". All of my partners are men with families. I am a single woman but I thoroughly enjoy working with them and hanging out with their spouses and families because they are good people. This is likely the case with your colleagues too.

If you are new to a city (locale), spend some time getting to know the place outside of the hospital. You can be cordial and accept some of their invitations but you know that you can easily make friends outside of medicine too. I don't want to get into a "pissing contest " about hours but I still had time, as a surgeon to get to know folks outside of the hospital during residency.

If you look at your colleagues as not wanting to be around you, then you will project the atmosphere that you don't want to be around them. Invite them over for a home-cooked meal and have the thing catered (anyone likes to eat). Offer to bring refreshments to those sporting events (go to a warehouse and get some Gatorade and put it in a cooler). Accept a night out or that golf outing and tell then that you are learning the game. Invite them out for some sport that you might like. I learned to enjoy minor league baseball by going to the games with my colleagues. You don't have to be an ace but you can be a team player. I am 5' 8" tall and can steal the ball from my more than 6 foot colleages but I can't hit that basket for anything-I pass the ball when I get it.

In short, be a good sport, give yourself some time and accept your colleagues as you find them. While they may be a bunch of single guys, they are probably nice folks who would like to have you around if you are fun person who is open to new experiences.

 

[JackADeli]

...I never thought I would have this problem...

...everyone is very cool here and there is a good atmosphere overall. I also feel like the faculty here are the most supportive I've worked with (better than med school or residency)...

...I just still feel like I'm socially "out of it".
...I just don't have all the same interests that the guys have
...I honestly am not going to be able to do all the stuff they do.
...I just feel like I don't fit in and sometimes
...I seriously doubt that a bunch of single guys going clubbing or to play golf, etc...

...I honestly don't think this is anyone's fault (other than mine, maybe). I just have never been in this position before...

You listed a bunch of things that you believe...

...If you look at your colleagues as not wanting to be around you, then you will project the atmosphere that you don't want to be around them...

I have to agree with NJBMD.... By your own accounts, your all male environment is NOT a problem from their end. They apparently support you. In short, it seems like YOU are in fact creating the problem. All your prior experiences had men & women and now in an all male atmosphere, "...the most supportive I've worked with (better than med school or residency)...". It is sad but, in the face of more support, you are creating a gender issue that does not exist simply based on the gender demographics of your colleagues. Do you not see a problem with that?

...I never thought I would have this problem...

Based on your post, you went from ?good environment to a more supportive environment. I would say if it is a problem then it is a problem others should be fortunate enough to have.... You are over thinking this "environment" and it may come back and spoil the atmosphere.

 

[JackADeli]

...I'm the only woman in an otherwise all-male fellowship program (in IM)...I just have never been in this position before (since IM residencies all have tons of women)

I just noticed this and was wondering... why is this in the surgery forums? You should really ask your colleagues in IM. Yes, this may happen in surgery. However, I dare say the personalities etc... are likely different within the surgery fellowships then the IM fellowships. I don't see you helping your already supportive atmosphere by importing a surgery perspective... into and IM fellowship, IMHO. I really think some introspection is in order....

I suggest this thread is served better by being moved to the IM forums.

 

[Winged Scapula]

While it may seem inappropriately placed, DF is looking for advice regarding being a female in a largely male specialty. She is in a male dominated specialty and program which is unusual in IM. It is *much* more common in surgery.

And whilst the personalities may be different between IM and GS, it may be less so for an IM fellowship, so I can see her point in posting here.

Many of us did train in "boy's clubs" and it can be difficult, at times, to feel like you fit in. I can remember being an intern and having the drug reps (in the days when they could take us out and spend $$) organize golfing outings, cigar nights and one even suggested a trip to a strip club. It took awhile before they started to realize that I was not interested in such things.

As others have suggested it appears you have to be the instigator or "cruise ship director Julie" here. Memorial Day is coming up, so if you're off perhaps having a "start of summer" party at your place, inviting the wives and GFs, of course. If there is a local sports team that you would enjoy seeing, or a movie, inviting others out is helpful. Sometimes just hanging around in the call room after your work is done is a good way to get to know each other - it was easier in residency when you were just THERE all the time.

You may actually be wrong about them not wanting you along - I would take them up on those offers to go clubbing or golfing. If you keep turning them down, eventually they will stop asking because they assume you'll say no. Go along and see if its fun; I'll bet you it will be.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I have to agree with NJBMD.... By your own accounts, your all male environment is NOT a problem from their end. They apparently support you. In short, it seems like YOU are in fact creating the problem. All your prior experiences had men & women and now in an all male atmosphere, "...the most supportive I've worked with (better than med school or residency)...". It is sad but, in the face of more support, you are creating a gender issue that does not exist simply based on the gender demographics of your colleagues. Do you not see a problem with that?
Based on your post, you went from ?good environment to a more supportive environment. I would say if it is a problem then it is a problem others should be fortunate enough to have.... You are over thinking this "environment" and it may come back and spoil the atmosphere.

Totally agree with JackADeli.
You are really really over thinking this. Just relax and go with the flow. Don't engage in stuff you don't like and as long as you don't make a major faux pas like making a communist or racist remark, you should be fine.