Flexibility of hours in Anesthesiology? Work one super long 24-36 hour shift?

[drRumi]

how fcking typical...someone comes on here, asks a simple straight forward question and instead of just answering the question or ignoring it, people here go on some fcking tangent about completely unrelated shiat.

if you won't answer the OP question and/or dont like his question then just stfu and move on to the next thread.

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[geogil]

how fcking typical...someone comes on here, asks a simple straight forward question and instead of just answering the question or ignoring it, people here go on some fcking tangent about completely unrelated shiat.

if you won't answer the OP question and/or dont like his question then just stfu and move on to the next thread.

So, wait, are you answering his question with this post then?

 

[coldweatherblue]

if you could find a group of surgeons willing to schedule all their patients in a 36 hour block, hire nursing/tech staff to work the same hours, get hospital ancillary staff to do the same, and convince your patients to come in at 3 am for their lap appy/whatever, all to work around your schedule, then yes it would be possible.

Do you see how this is asking a bit much? We are in a service industry, our worlds revolve around the needs of those around us, not our own. FWIW I have a lot of hobbies that I consider to be very worthwhile and important parts of my life (even more "part" of me than medicine) but in the end medicine will always come first over other hobbies. It's just the way it works. That's what we signed up for when we chose this *profession*.

 

[veetz]

36 hours nonstop isn't safe for patient care.

 

[drRumi]

So, wait, are you answering his question with this post then?

no im not, but nor am i attacking his character or calling him arrogant for asking a simple question. just because some people see the world through their narrow blinders doesn't make the rest unworthy for the medical profession.

i have a friend who recently took a job in west virginia for 2 weeks/month with decent pay so that he can still take care of his mentally handicapped sister back home. if he came on here and asked that same question he would be attacked and have his character questioned because God forbid he has priorities outside of medicine that matter to him.

 

[badasshairday]

More... as I sit here and stew...

I cannot begin to tell you how deeply insulted, as I think back on the evolution of this thread, that someone would come here and even speculate on choosing this field so they could only have to work one day a week. This is precisely the type of thinking that's gotten us to the situation we are in with the CRNAs.

I don't want any "lifestyle" candidates in our profession anymore. I show up, I work hard, and I don't expect that my job will end everyday at 3:00 PM. If I have a sick patient, I will go to the SICU and sit there with them all night long (as I did recently). I don't turn over a case in the afternoon if I think that I'm going to be dumping a difficult patient on a colleague. I don't walk out of my shift thinking, "Man, I couldn't get out of there fast enough."

To come here and suggest that you are considering choosing our profession so you can work one shift a week to go do more "noble" things... frankly we just don't need that type of person in our field. In fact, we don't need that kind of person in medicine period! Go do something else with your life.

You are either a doctor, or you're a technician no better than a shift-working nurse or someone who shoots x-rays. If you want to work shifts, go and be a glorified triager in the ER. I'm so sick and tired of people thinking Anesthesiology is a "lifestyle" specialty. That is precisely the type of thinking that has gotten us into the unenviable position of being considered lazy tube-jockeys who can't get out of the hospital fast enough.

Please, people. Stop insulting and denigrating the field of medicine I call my specialty and for which I've worked my ass off for the past 4 years to only begin to master!



-copro

Copro, even though I don't agree with how this thread came about, nor do I always agree with you, this post here is a gem.

 

[NavyFlightDoc]

also, his question was answered fairly straightforwardly, by multiple people, including coprolalia (post #6).

Saladin's immediate response (#7), was way off, not only did he interpret coprolalia's response wildly incorrectly, but condescending (regarding the availability of said job's copro said

"There are probably a few - very few - practices out there who are going to let you work, essentially, part-time (which is what you're asking) so you can do what you want with your free time."

which was in response to a question about anesthesiology on an F'ing anesthesiology forum, so why the hell would Saladin respond with the following

"Once again, sorry bud, but you can very much become a hospitalist or EM doctor, work one 36 hour shift in a rural setting, and be considered full-time. Hospitalists routinely work 7 days on and 7 days off, and are considered full-time. Many EM doctors work 6 months and then take off 6 months. So I guess you just don't know what you are talking about."

clearly coprolalia was talking about an anesthesia practice. Anyone not looking to start/prolong an argument would see that.

It is going to be hard to find the kind of job he wants, unless he wants to do locums. Even in that case, it's not going to be easy, IF the "noble pursuits" schedule takes precedence. His management/procedural skills are definitely going to take a hit, though, if he really tries 6 months on/off, especially at the beginning of the post-residency period.

Oh, and though BFE is indeed slang for the middle of nowhere, it's an acronym for "Beyond F'ing Egypt", or at least I have heard it described in a manner consistent with the following wikipedia entry (good radiology like hedging there)

BFE or Bumblef@!k, Egypt (also Bumf@!k, Egypt, Butt F@!k, Egypt or Beyond F'ing Egypt) (vulgar), refers to an unspecified remote location or destination, assumed to be arduous to travel to, unpleasant to visit and/or far away from anything of interest to the speaker (e.g. Man, you parked way the hell out in BFE). In Southeastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey, this is often referred to as East Jabip. In the Chicago metropolitan area, the term was coined to refer to the region in downstate Illinois known as "Little Egypt", centered in Cairo, Illinois, for being the furthest from the urban center in both distance and way of life.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Some advice for SaladinMD:

Not an anesthesiologist here, and not very likely to go into the field (considering), but I've been able to observe up close the lifestyle of two academic anesthesiologists. One of them is at work at 6 in the morning on non-OR days and goes home at 7 in the evening and he's nearly 80 yo; he had a divorce, doesn't spend much time with his current wife (she's also a high-power doc in her 70s), and owns a home that's currently worth millions in one of the best locations in the US. The other is middle aged, arrives at 8 on non-OR days and goes home at 4 to coach his daughter's soccer practice; he has a thriving marriage, spends lots of time with his two kids, but doesn't own his own home (he rents!) in an equally lucrative location as the 80 yo. Both do research, but they do it differently. The 80 yo is anesthetizing rats, operating the vaporizers, the gas chromatograph, etc. The 40-something yo delegates the studies to students, postdocs, and techs. The 80 yo doesn't visit his grandkids for the holidays. The 40-something yo takes a 1-2 wk vacation with the kids every month or other month - to Japan, Italy, NYC, etc. He's recently taken up glassblowing as a hobby and went to his son's school to show the kids how to make ice cream with liquid nitrogen. Completely different lifestyles and goals in life, no?

I think that anesthesia is a career that gives you a lot of versatility. However, I would worry about its status in the future, with the CRNAs, especially if the anesthesiologists ALL want tons of time off. Compensation is likely to take a hit and hours go up. It's also a procedural field, which makes me worry about taking off huge amounts of time (e.g. 6 months). You might have to fight hard to get that sort of gig, you'll take a big cut in pay (sounds like you're OK with that), but you have to consider how you will be an asset to the practice. If you only work 6 months a year, will the practice have to hire a CRNA for the other half? Will your wife be an anesthesiologist also who does the other 6 months? (in which case you can't share that time off).

I would suggest you consider going into something like IM or peds or EM which have the established model of hospitalist or ER shift work. That will allow you to "titrate" your time as you like pretty well. You can shift to locums from IM/peds/EM relatively easily. You can also pursue a fellowship out of IM or peds that can drastically boost your income (and hours), should you desire. I think these specialties will provide even more flexibility, given the right conditions, than anesthesia. As an example, I've heard of a couple (both pediatricians), where the husband works three days and spends the other four days of the week looking after the kids (home schooled) when the wife's at work, and the wife works another three days (and watches the kids when the husband is at work). Of course they take an income hit > ~50% of what they would earn if they both worked + overhead for 2 people for the salary of ~1, but they had different priorities, clearly.

 

[JLM]

Let me hijack this thread for a hot second . . .

For any of you out there on the CCM side of things, do you forsee mandatory 24 hour intensivist coverage in the ICU any time soon? I heard a rumbling or two of studies done several years back that showed better outcomes with 24 hr coverage. Havent found them yet.

That would be a JCAHO requirement I could actually take advantage of.

 

[Trisomy13]

Hey Saladin..


to answer your question without the heaping dose of douchebaggery, YES you can find opportunities like you desire. They will be easier if you are willing to take a pay cut, nd you seem to understand this. I know of a few faculty who work essentially part time, and will leave for 2 months at a stretch to go on some adventure-vacation kayaking trip. You will likely find these scenarios in larger practices with less production pressure (i.e. academia) but they are possible.

sorry you had to experience such a knee-jerk reaction to your post.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Let me hijack this thread for a hot second . . .

For any of you out there on the CCM side of things, do you forsee mandatory 24 hour intensivist coverage in the ICU any time soon? I heard a rumbling or two of studies done several years back that showed better outcomes with 24 hr coverage. Havent found them yet.

That would be a JCAHO requirement I could actually take advantage of.

 

[Trisomy13]

More... as I sit here and stew...

I cannot begin to tell you how deeply insulted, as I think back on the evolution of this thread, that someone would come here and even speculate on choosing this field so they could only have to work one day a week. This is precisely the type of thinking that's gotten us to the situation we are in with the CRNAs.

I don't want any "lifestyle" candidates in our profession anymore. I show up, I work hard, and I don't expect that my job will end everyday at 3:00 PM. If I have a sick patient, I will go to the SICU and sit there with them all night long (as I did recently). I don't turn over a case in the afternoon if I think that I'm going to be dumping a difficult patient on a colleague. I don't walk out of my shift thinking, "Man, I couldn't get out of there fast enough."

To come here and suggest that you are considering choosing our profession so you can work one shift a week to go do more "noble" things... frankly we just don't need that type of person in our field. In fact, we don't need that kind of person in medicine period! Go do something else with your life.

You are either a doctor, or you're a technician no better than a shift-working nurse or someone who shoots x-rays. If you want to work shifts, go and be a glorified triager in the ER. I'm so sick and tired of people thinking Anesthesiology is a "lifestyle" specialty. That is precisely the type of thinking that has gotten us into the unenviable position of being considered lazy tube-jockeys who can't get out of the hospital fast enough.

Please, people. Stop insulting and denigrating the field of medicine I call my specialty and for which I've worked my ass off for the past 4 years to only begin to master!



-copro

allow me...




copro, you're gonna stroke out one of these days. i don't disagree with your post here, but i re-read the OP and he doesn't strike me as a "lifestyler" so much as someone trying to make an educated decision.

but you have the right to jump up the ass of anyone you choose. it's Teh Internets, afterall.

 

[bobg504]

This entire thread proves that arguing over the internet is POINTLESS! Its NOT that deep!

 

[coprolalia]

but you have the right to jump up the ass of anyone you choose. it's Teh Internets, afterall.

START READING HERE...

Then, the best response on that thread RE: "Dr." Saladin...

Sadly, you suffer from the same mental defect as many before you - you come here claiming to be above it all, above the bigotry, above the mean spiritedness, above the pettiness. But what happens is you resort to the same Us vs Them retrenchment you're so quick condemn in others from your high-horse. .... and that Allah gives you the inner peace to discuss things rationally. Unfortunately, you see any criticism, wait...not even criticism, just merely questioning something related to Islam... as an affront that deserves an immediate riposte of name calling, and what I like to calling a "boxing" of people. Meaning, even though you see yourself as being then end-all be-all of education on these issues, you expose yourself for the ivory tower fraud you are by your incessant need to put people in convenient 'boxes'.

i luvs teh internets. prolly most all the prons/ u can c.

-copro

 

[EternalMD]

START READING HERE...

Then, the best response on that thread RE: "Dr." Saladin...



i luvs teh internets. prolly most all the prons/ u can c.

-copro

I was hoping to come back to a more productive thread and see this... sigh

So far, you've made only one or two comments on this thread which have been insightful. The rest are just attacking OPs character - that thread you linked everyone is mid-way ignoring its original intent summed up by Muslims must ask 'what can they do for humankind' before they demand that humankind respects them!!. As much as the argument of US vs them is used, the same argument is used here with incredible hypocracy.

The purpose of your most recent comment on this thread? who knows but it makes me wonder whether you are this confrontational with everyone you meet whom you disagree with in real life and not the internet

 

[Saladin MD]

Hey Saladin..


to answer your question without the heaping dose of douchebaggery, YES you can find opportunities like you desire. They will be easier if you are willing to take a pay cut, nd you seem to understand this. I know of a few faculty who work essentially part time, and will leave for 2 months at a stretch to go on some adventure-vacation kayaking trip. You will likely find these scenarios in larger practices with less production pressure (i.e. academia) but they are possible.

sorry you had to experience such a knee-jerk reaction to your post.

Thanks. I appreciate your post a lot.

how fcking typical...someone comes on here, asks a simple straight forward question and instead of just answering the question or ignoring it, people here go on some fcking tangent about completely unrelated shiat.

if you won't answer the OP question and/or dont like his question then just stfu and move on to the next thread.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

if you could find a group of surgeons willing to schedule all their patients in a 36 hour block, hire nursing/tech staff to work the same hours, get hospital ancillary staff to do the same, and convince your patients to come in at 3 am for their lap appy/whatever, all to work around your schedule, then yes it would be possible.

Do you see how this is asking a bit much? We are in a service industry, our worlds revolve around the needs of those around us, not our own.

Actually, I had thought this out a bit more. I had thought that anesthesiologists are needed round the clock for emergency surgeries throughout the night. After all, surgeons are on call for that very reason.

FWIW I have a lot of hobbies that I consider to be very worthwhile and important parts of my life (even more "part" of me than medicine) but in the end medicine will always come first over other hobbies. It's just the way it works. That's what we signed up for when we chose this *profession*.

I never said otherwise. I simply hope to do both. For example, a hospitalist might work 12 hours a day for 2 weeks of the month, which would be a total of 168 hours per month, which is a lot and probably above the average that physicians work.

So in actuality, I'm saying here that I'm willing to work twice as hard to make sure I can do both medicine and my extra curricular.

36 hours nonstop isn't safe for patient care.

Some EM doctors do it, and I believe residents do it all the time.

i have a friend who recently took a job in west virginia for 2 weeks/month with decent pay so that he can still take care of his mentally handicapped sister back home. if he came on here and asked that same question he would be attacked and have his character questioned because God forbid he has priorities outside of medicine that matter to him.

Thanks.

also, his question was answered fairly straightforwardly, by multiple people, including coprolalia (post #6).

No it wasn't. It was answered in a rude way. I think you are just angry at me for the other thread where I questioned the US military.

response to a question about anesthesiology on an F'ing anesthesiology forum, so why the hell would Saladin respond with the following

clearly coprolalia was talking about an anesthesia practice. Anyone not looking to start/prolong an argument would see that.

I think you are missing the entire point. My initial post in the thread--the entire point of the thread--was to say "hey, I know this is possible in other fields, so is it possible in anesthesiology?" Again, a simple 'no' would have sufficed.

Some advice for SaladinMD:

Not an anesthesiologist here, and not very likely to go into the field (considering), but I've been able to observe up close the lifestyle of two academic anesthesiologists. One of them is at work at 6 in the morning on non-OR days and goes home at 7 in the evening and he's nearly 80 yo; he had a divorce, doesn't spend much time with his current wife (she's also a high-power doc in her 70s), and owns a home that's currently worth millions in one of the best locations in the US. The other is middle aged, arrives at 8 on non-OR days and goes home at 4 to coach his daughter's soccer practice; he has a thriving marriage, spends lots of time with his two kids, but doesn't own his own home (he rents!) in an equally lucrative location as the 80 yo. Both do research, but they do it differently. The 80 yo is anesthetizing rats, operating the vaporizers, the gas chromatograph, etc. The 40-something yo delegates the studies to students, postdocs, and techs. The 80 yo doesn't visit his grandkids for the holidays. The 40-something yo takes a 1-2 wk vacation with the kids every month or other month - to Japan, Italy, NYC, etc. He's recently taken up glassblowing as a hobby and went to his son's school to show the kids how to make ice cream with liquid nitrogen. Completely different lifestyles and goals in life, no?

I think that anesthesia is a career that gives you a lot of versatility. However, I would worry about its status in the future, with the CRNAs, especially if the anesthesiologists ALL want tons of time off. Compensation is likely to take a hit and hours go up. It's also a procedural field, which makes me worry about taking off huge amounts of time (e.g. 6 months). You might have to fight hard to get that sort of gig, you'll take a big cut in pay (sounds like you're OK with that), but you have to consider how you will be an asset to the practice. If you only work 6 months a year, will the practice have to hire a CRNA for the other half? Will your wife be an anesthesiologist also who does the other 6 months? (in which case you can't share that time off).

I would suggest you consider going into something like IM or peds or EM which have the established model of hospitalist or ER shift work. That will allow you to "titrate" your time as you like pretty well. You can shift to locums from IM/peds/EM relatively easily. You can also pursue a fellowship out of IM or peds that can drastically boost your income (and hours), should you desire. I think these specialties will provide even more flexibility, given the right conditions, than anesthesia. As an example, I've heard of a couple (both pediatricians), where the husband works three days and spends the other four days of the week looking after the kids (home schooled) when the wife's at work, and the wife works another three days (and watches the kids when the husband is at work). Of course they take an income hit > ~50% of what they would earn if they both worked + overhead for 2 people for the salary of ~1, but they had different priorities, clearly.

Thanks. I appreciate your advice a lot.

 

[huktonfonix]

Some EM doctors do it, and I believe residents do it all the time.

.

Wrong. Residents are blatantly in violation of the ACGME work rules if they do it "all the time". And if attendings do it, do you really think that this is the safest thing for the patient. Theres a reason work hours are limited during residency and for other jobs including pilots. Would you want to be taken care of a physician, pilot, police officer, etc that has been up for 30 hours? Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should.

 

[radslooking]

how fcking typical...someone comes on here, asks a simple straight forward question and instead of just answering the question or ignoring it, people here go on some fcking tangent about completely unrelated shiat.

if you won't answer the OP question and/or dont like his question then just stfu and move on to the next thread.

lol

 

[radslooking]

by the way, i think everyone who posted in this thread is going to be a terrible doctor

 

[Saladin MD]

by the way, i think everyone who posted in this thread is going to be a terrible doctor

haha

Wrong. Residents are blatantly in violation of the ACGME work rules if they do it "all the time". And if attendings do it, do you really think that this is the safest thing for the patient. Theres a reason work hours are limited during residency and for other jobs including pilots. Would you want to be taken care of a physician, pilot, police officer, etc that has been up for 30 hours? Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should.

Yeah I see what you are saying.

On that note, I'd prefer the 7 days on/off deal. I was really just trying to see the level of flexibility so I was giving an extreme example to ascertain the situation in anesthesiology...But yeah, I like 7 days on/off. Seems like the least extreme example and totally doable.

 

[deleted77919]

…

 

[Saladin MD]

168 hours/month is definitely not above what the average physician works. Here's some 2003 data that puts average medically related hours at 53.2hrs/week for all physicians. That's 212.8hrs/month. Based on the attendings 'round here those figures seem low, but that's the data (or at least it's the data circa 2003).

Cool. Thanks. But yeah, I don't think that an extra 50 hours a month makes much of a difference as far as competency is concerned, shrug.

 

[rabidpanda13]

168 hours/month is definitely not above what the average physician works. Here's some 2003 data that puts average medically related hours at 53.2hrs/week for all physicians. That's 212.8hrs/month. Based on the attendings 'round here those figures seem low, but that's the data (or at least it's the data circa 2003).

I just saw in another thread (and I cannot for the life of me find it again) data for 2007 that said the average number of hours worked per week is 61.0 for an Anesthesiologist.

This thread has completely flabbergasted me. That's right, I said flabbergasted.

 

[DO4lifer]

i forgot to mention that I worked with a trauma anesthesiologist. like OB, they can work around the clock because patients come to them at all hours.

when you work straight shifts, you aren't working the whole time...there is down time, but you still get paid for taking that shift. so since you get chances to sleep, its pretty reasonable.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Cool. Thanks. But yeah, I don't think that an extra 50 hours a month makes much of a difference as far as competency is concerned, shrug.

I think the main point that needs to be emphasized is that one 36 hour shift a week is not full time. Period. I would guess it is a little over half time in most groups.
Piece bee untwo ewe.
Visualize whirrled peas.

 

[Gern Blansten]

i forgot to mention that I worked with a trauma anesthesiologist. like OB, they can work around the clock because patients come to them at all hours.

when you work straight shifts, you aren't working the whole time...there is down time, but you still get paid for taking that shift. so since you get chances to sleep, its pretty reasonable.

Most groups take OB call and trauma call in addition to their usual workload, not in place of. So, they work the long shift, get a day off and come back for more, not take the rest of the week off.

 

[aaydemi]

The useful part of this post: It can be done. There are a lot of private, outpatient surgery centers that may not require a "full time" commitment. I know an anesthesiologist who slams out 5-6 ortho cases once a week and goes home before noon. Locums is always another option.

The not so useful part of this post:

I don't want any "lifestyle" candidates in our profession anymore. I show up, I work hard, and I don't expect that my job will end everyday at 3:00 PM. If I have a sick patient, I will go to the SICU and sit there with them all night long (as I did recently).

If you want to work shifts, go and be a glorified triager in the ER.

Come on. That's not really "practicing anesthesiology", is it? In other words, you're not going to tell me that you think that person can handle a triple-A repair?
-copro

Congrats, copro, you worked hard and it sounds like you want everyone to recognize it. Now did you want a pat on the back, or maybe a gold star? How about a cute sticker with a doggy on it? Your second and third comments sound awfully arrogant to me. I guess I didn't get the memo when the ASA granted you the sovereignty to determine what the practice of anesthesiology entailed. Different strokes for different folks. Just sayin.

 

[DO4lifer]

Most groups take OB call and trauma call in addition to their usual workload, not in place of. So, they work the long shift, get a day off and come back for more, not take the rest of the week off.

Indeed. Although the OB doc did 7 24-hour call days in the month for the same salary as his counterparts...however he chose to do some private practice on the side.

 

[moinmoin]

I'm on my OB rotation right now and have spoken with several anesthesiologists here. They work 160 hours averaged over four weeks. On a side note, for what it's worth, every single one I've spoken with has specifically mentioned the word lifestyle and how sweet it is that a 24 hour shift counts toward their 160 hours.

 

[CowsLoveJourney]

So you all are saying that someone can go all through the education and hard work, yet doesn't have the freedom to choose his preferred schedule?

Medicine is still a job. No one says that you have to keep up with 60-70 hours a week when you finally become an attending. It's your life.

Telling someone that they can't pick a specialty because of the lifestyle it brings, is like telling a pre-med to not become a doctor for the money. What matters in the end is that the job gets done. Who cares that he motives are. As long as it doesn't affect the outcome of the patient, when who are you to tell another person what is right or wrong?

 

[Saladin MD]

This is sort of unrelated to the topic, but since I started the thread, I'll just throw it out there: for the last two days, I've been shadowing an anesthesiologist attending and his resident...saw them in action during a huge two stage esophagectomy, a couple lap choles, and a whipple's.

There are quite a few things I liked about it. One thing I really liked a lot is how you get to immediately see the result of your action, unlike other specialties where you have to wait for a follow-up visit to see the effect of any medicine you have given or surgery you have performed.

I will continue to observe the anesthesiologist for another couple weeks, and will also try to get some hands on experience if possible. Any advice anyone wants to give me about how to make the best of my time to know if the field is for me?

I will be straight up and say that I've never really been completely fascinated by any particular field to the exclusion of others; mostly I just have likes and dislikes. But I really am having problems deciding which field to pick.

Anyways, I will also check out the anesthesiology pre-op clinic; question about this: do attendings in America actually do the pre-op clinic? I'll check out the ICU interventionist and pain management stuff too.

 

[EternalMD]

One thing I really liked a lot is how you get to immediately see the result of your action, unlike other specialties where you have to wait for a follow-up visit to see the effect of any medicine you have given or surgery you have performed.
.

While this may be true, if you do end up considering anesthesiology, please don't use this statement in your interviews - I suppose you could use it in a personal statement and join the 95% of other applicants who state it in some way or form (very unique ). Personally, I think you should find a more compelling reason than "the immediate satisfaction of administering a drug and seeing the impact within seconds" blah blah blah

 

[asmallchild]

While this may be true, if you do end up considering anesthesiology, please don't use this statement in your interviews - I suppose you could use it in a personal statement and join the 95% of other applicants who state it in some way or form (very unique ). Personally, I think you should find a more compelling reason than "the immediate satisfaction of administering a drug and seeing the impact within seconds" blah blah blah

Agreed, very trite.

 

[lfesiam]

saladin - if you are having trouble picking a specialty, my advice to you is to look at the work environment - you will be working there for the rest of your life. And pick something you enjoy, working hard long hours at something you love will make time go by pretty quickly!

Radiology = dark room, IR suites or your own home (nighthawks)
ER = multitasking fast pace clinics with a dose of trauma
Anesthesiology = good old OR-one patient at a time! (but with increasing non-OR consults)
Surgery = OR, wards, and clinics
Medicine, Peds, Neuro, Derm, Psych, = offices, wards and clinics
Pathology = labs in the basements of most hospitals
Rad Onc, Nuc = clinics and suites with proton accelerators (jk)
FP = mainly clinics
Sport Medicine = stadiums, fields, locker rooms, clinics
etc...........

 

[DO4lifer]

as a career, your work environment is just as important as the work. Medicine is fascinating, and I found many fields "interesting"...but I couldn't do it everyday for years.

saladin - if you are having trouble picking a specialty, my advice to you is to look at the work environment - you will be working there for the rest of your life. And pick something you enjoy, working hard long hours at something you love will make time go by pretty quickly!

Radiology = dark room, IR suites or your own home (nighthawks)
ER = multitasking fast pace clinics with a dose of trauma
Anesthesiology = good old OR-one patient at a time! (but with increasing non-OR consults)
Surgery = OR, wards, and clinics
Medicine, Peds, Neuro, Derm, Psych, = offices, wards and clinics
Pathology = labs in the basements of most hospitals
Rad Onc, Nuc = clinics and suites with proton accelerators (jk)
FP = mainly clinics
Sport Medicine = stadiums, fields, locker rooms, clinics
etc...........

 

[Pooh & Annie]

As much as people talk about "anesthesiology and medicine are NOT about lifestyle! Go somewhere else if you don't want to work hard", I haven't met more than one or two people who feel that job=life. It makes me laugh that people think any reasonable person would choose a career without considering what effect that choice will have on their personal life, both in terms of time away from work, and how that work effects them psychologically.

It amazes me that people equate a desire to spend time away from work with laziness and "bringing down the field." If you aren't concerned about how your job effects your personal life, than either you have no family or friends, or you are a social imbecile. We all know that in most practices we will have to work many long days, and frequent sleepless nights. Fine. But if someone wants to work part time to spend more time with their family, that's their business. Just do your job well while your there, and tell the idiots that want to dictate how you practice to shut the hell up.

Bro, you got deeply insulted from me somehow indirectly "insulting" your field, even though nothing I said came close to an insult. Imagine then my hurt when you insult my religion.

Having said that, I did not say I want to work one day a week. I said I am willing to work really long hours 7 days on/off sort of thing, like a hospitalist does...or a huge 36 hour shift like an EM does, maybe 5-6 times a month sort of thing.



Bro, you simply could have said "no, I don't think anesthesiology would be conducive to such a schedule." I asked a question; that is all.



Bro, once again, I did not say I want to do more noble things. I have already clarified this again, so please stop saying this because it is a straw man argument. I only said that what I want to do is more noble than playing golf and chilling...and I clearly said that a person who works as a doctor is doing something which is very noble. I was making no comparison.



What about women who want to raise a family? Would you insult them if they chose to work part-time?

Furthermore, it has nothing to do with being lazy, as I clearly mentioned. (1) I am willing to work my butt off for 7 days on (12+ hour shifts if need be), to get 7 days off. (2) I will not be lounging around the 7 off days but rather working in a different capacity.

Lastly, I wonder why you think it is ok to insult ER medicine but not anesthesiology? Bro, that doesn't seem right.

In the end, if someone works with super long shifts as opposed to spread out, how is that so different? Is working 36-45 hours not acceptable to you? Is there some law in medicine that says if you choose to work that many hours, then you are not a real doctor?

Cmon bro.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

As much as people talk about "anesthesiology and medicine are NOT about lifestyle! Go somewhere else if you don't want to work hard", I haven't met more than one or two people who feel that job=life. It makes me laugh that people think any reasonable person would choose a career without considering what effect that choice will have on their personal life, both in terms of time away from work, and how that work effects them psychologically.

It amazes me that people equate a desire to spend time away from work with laziness and "bringing down the field." If you aren't concerned about how your job effects your personal life, than either you have no family or friends, or you are a social imbecile. We all know that in most practices we will have to work many long days, and frequent sleepless nights. Fine. But if someone wants to work part time to spend more time with their family, that's their business. Just do your job well while your there, and tell the idiots that want to dictate how you practoce to shut the hell up.

Exactly. If you are doing your job properly, staying up on the material, being responsible to your patients and colleagues, and are willing to take the hefty pay cut - who cares if you work part time? It's really no one else's business.

 

[Saladin MD]

While this may be true, if you do end up considering anesthesiology, please don't use this statement in your interviews - I suppose you could use it in a personal statement and join the 95% of other applicants who state it in some way or form (very unique ). Personally, I think you should find a more compelling reason than "the immediate satisfaction of administering a drug and seeing the impact within seconds" blah blah blah

I'm not saying that it is the only reason I like it. I had a few reasons in mind, but anyways, I've only done it for two days so far. Let's see if I like it after sticking it out for awhile.

But thanks for the heads up about not writing that in a personal statement.

Any constructive suggestions about how to utilize my time to see if I like anesthesiology? Like I said, I just started observing an anesthesiologist...what things should I keep in mind, or what things should I make sure to do in that time? Thanks.

Maybe I should take that quiz that is in the beginning of Iserson's Guide to Residency.

saladin - if you are having trouble picking a specialty, my advice to you is to look at the work environment - you will be working there for the rest of your life. And pick something you enjoy, working hard long hours at something you love will make time go by pretty quickly!

Radiology = dark room, IR suites or your own home (nighthawks)
ER = multitasking fast pace clinics with a dose of trauma
Anesthesiology = good old OR-one patient at a time! (but with increasing non-OR consults)
Surgery = OR, wards, and clinics
Medicine, Peds, Neuro, Derm, Psych, = offices, wards and clinics
Pathology = labs in the basements of most hospitals
Rad Onc, Nuc = clinics and suites with proton accelerators (jk)
FP = mainly clinics
Sport Medicine = stadiums, fields, locker rooms, clinics
etc...........

I hate rounds, wards, and clinics, lol. I love the OR. Don't mind dark rooms or labs. Don't know about the ER yet; still have my ER rotation to go.

So from this angle, anesthesiology seems good, as I love the ambiance of the OR. In fact, of the reasons I have in my mind for liking anesthesiology, this one is at the top. I've only been observing at this point in time...I might do a call with an anesthesiologist in order to get more involved, and possibly some hands on experience.

As much as people talk about "anesthesiology and medicine are NOT about lifestyle! Go somewhere else if you don't want to work hard", I haven't met more than one or two people who feel that job=life. It makes me laugh that people think any reasonable person would choose a career without considering what effect that choice will have on their personal life, both in terms of time away from work, and how that work effects them psychologically.

It amazes me that people equate a desire to spend time away from work with laziness and "bringing down the field." If you aren't concerned about how your job effects your personal life, than either you have no family or friends, or you are a social imbecile. We all know that in most practices we will have to work many long days, and frequent sleepless nights. Fine. But if someone wants to work part time to spend more time with their family, that's their business. Just do your job well while your there, and tell the idiots that want to dictate how you practice to shut the hell up.

Agreed. Thanks.

I actually don't plan on working part-time; I was just trying to see how far you could push the limit with regards to your schedule in anesthesiology. Even if I ever do choose to work part-time, it will only be for a couple years. But yeah, to each their own. I really dislike people being judgmental.

Exactly. If you are doing your job properly, staying up on the material, being responsible to your patients and colleagues, and are willing to take the hefty pay cut - who cares if you work part time? It's really no one else's business.

Agreed.

I just want the option there if I need it. Otherwise, I will just try working the least number of hours that can still be considered full-time, and try to clump those up as much as possible.

One last note: I don't think that most attendings work full-time for any other reason than getting a fat paycheck. If you offered them the same paycheck with less hours, you don't think they'd take it in a heartbeat? I think most people would love to work only twenty-five hours per week, if given the option (without a pay cut).

 

[drccw]

My practice offers "full time" positions. These usually end up being 40 hr/week positions and they are non-partnership track. Most of the people who chose these people are women and like having a dependable schedule to rely on. A couple of them do 4 10s a week, some do 3 12s a week and a 8 every other week and some just do 8 hours each day of the week. We do not offer the 24 hour option- very few groups will allow an anesthesiolgist just to work 24 hours at a time or something like that...

there are a few 2 week on, one week off gigs.. but not many...

Truthfully in my mind 24 hours of anesthesia is not like 24 hours of being a medicine doc or something. If you are truly truly working for 24 hours (and that means generating units) then it is exhausting and you will burn out. I understand that you have other interests in life but do not try to exhaust yourself in your job because you will learn to resent it.

drccw

 

[Saladin MD]

My practice offers "full time" positions. These usually end up being 40 hr/week positions and they are non-partnership track. Most of the people who chose these people are women and like having a dependable schedule to rely on. A couple of them do 4 10s a week, some do 3 12s a week and a 8 every other week and some just do 8 hours each day of the week. We do not offer the 24 hour option- very few groups will allow an anesthesiolgist just to work 24 hours at a time or something like that...

there are a few 2 week on, one week off gigs.. but not many...

Truthfully in my mind 24 hours of anesthesia is not like 24 hours of being a medicine doc or something. If you are truly truly working for 24 hours (and that means generating units) then it is exhausting and you will burn out. I understand that you have other interests in life but do not try to exhaust yourself in your job because you will learn to resent it.

drccw

Cool. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

So basically in order to become partner, a person needs to work 60 hours per week?

 

[drccw]

to make partner, one has to take an equal amount of call. There are twenty of us, so it's one in twenty call. I think we do about 50 hours a week typically.

 

[Saladin MD]

to make partner, one has to take an equal amount of call. There are twenty of us, so it's one in twenty call. I think we do about 50 hours a week typically.

Thanks for your input. Very beneficial.

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

i hate it when i click on a thread because the title seems interesting and i think i might find useful information only to have some troll (coprolalia) start attacking the original poster.

this happens a lot here, this time i wanted to say something.

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

saladin - if you are having trouble picking a specialty, my advice to you is to look at the work environment - you will be working there for the rest of your life. And pick something you enjoy, working hard long hours at something you love will make time go by pretty quickly!

Radiology = dark room, IR suites or your own home (nighthawks)
ER = multitasking fast pace clinics with a dose of trauma
Anesthesiology = good old OR-one patient at a time! (but with increasing non-OR consults)
Surgery = OR, wards, and clinics
Medicine, Peds, Neuro, Derm, Psych, = offices, wards and clinics
Pathology = labs in the basements of most hospitals
Rad Onc, Nuc = clinics and suites with proton accelerators (jk)
FP = mainly clinics
Sport Medicine = stadiums, fields, locker rooms, clinics
etc...........

nice post thx.

 

[coprolalia]

i hate it when i click on a thread because the title seems interesting and i think i might find useful information only to have some troll (coprolalia) start attacking the original poster.

this happens a lot here, this time i wanted to say something.

You have a serious, perhaps incurable, case of troll-confusion, grasshopper. Do a search of the relevant posters, if you even know how to. Then, go to undergrad pre-med, med-school, and be on the verge of completing an anesthesiology residency before you open your pie-hole. Maybe then some of us will actually care what you think.

-copro

 

[turkdlit]

You have a serious, perhaps incurable, case of troll-confusion, grasshopper. Do a search of the relevant posters, if you even know how to. Then, go to undergrad pre-med, med-school, and be on the verge of completing an anesthesiology residency before you open your pie-hole. Maybe then some of us will actually care what you think.

-copro

After wasting 15 minutes of my life going through this entire thread, the only piece of information I've gathered is that, copro, its good to know most your clinical interactions will be limited to unconscious patients. Your personal attacks on someone's religious beliefs is way out of line...some mod needs to swing the mighty ban hammer in this guy's/gal's direction.

 

[coprolalia]

After wasting 15 minutes of my life going through this entire thread, the only piece of information I've gathered is that, copro, its good to know most your clinical interactions will be limited to unconscious patients. Your personal attacks on someone's religious beliefs is way out of line...some mod needs to swing the mighty ban hammer in this guy's/gal's direction.

Great. Yet another n00b who has no idea what an anesthesiologist actually does.

-copro

 

[doctadre]

what exactly is this "very important" and "noble" extra-curricular that will "contribute to the world"?

my understanding is that the type of schedule that you desire is not very common in anesthesia unless you're doing locums. good luck in your search though.

 

[DHT]

i hate it when i click on a thread because the title seems interesting and i think i might find useful information only to have some troll (coprolalia) start attacking the original poster.

this happens a lot here, this time i wanted to say something.

Fail.

To the OP: It will be difficult to find a setup like the one you are looking for, but I am sure you would be able to find it if you were flexible on where you live. Besides, there are plenty of CRNAs looking to pick up the slack.