Flight Surgeon questions

[BoboJenkins]

Ok, so here is the deal, both of my parents are surgeons, orthopedics, so naturally I feel a pull towards the medical field. However, I also desire to learn to fly, which is how I stumbled upon the flight surgeon career. My question is, would it be possible to do a general, or orthopedic surgery residency, and then go to flight surgeon training, or would I have to specialize in aerospace medicine and wait until I left the military to pursue a surgical career? Any help is wanted. Thanks in advance.

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[darthsubway]

Ok, so here is the deal, both of my parents are surgeons, orthopedics, so naturally I feel a pull towards the medical field. However, I also desire to learn to fly, which is how I stumbled upon the flight surgeon career. My question is, would it be possible to do a general, or orthopedic surgery residency, and then go to flight surgeon training, or would I have to specialize in aerospace medicine and wait until I left the military to pursue a surgical career? Any help is wanted. Thanks in advance.

I knew a doc that was a flight surgeon in the Navy. She had the best stories of being able to travel the world and being stationed on small islands in the Pacific, so it sounds like an awesome job. I wish I could help you, but unfortunately I don't know how she became one. I should have asked!

 

[JPA178]

You might want to check with the military-specific forums as they will be able to provide a lot more detail. Here is my (limited) understanding:

-Air Force and Navy are the two branches who have the most flight surgeons; Army has some too. Navy flight surgeons are required to fly themselves and get stick time while in the Air Force they are not. For what you're after and based on my understanding, it seems like Navy is probably the way to go. Keep in mind the Navy also provides healthcare to the Marine Corps.
-You can go to med school through the HPSP or go to USU and commission right away. Once you finish med school you have to apply to military residencies and if you get one, you are required to take it.
-When you are in Navy medicine you generally do a GMO tour after intern year, no matter what specialty you're in (whether it's surgery, internal medicine, etc). That means that for 2 years, you are stationed on a ship or at a base as the general medical officer for a unit. You are responsible all the basic healthcare needs of your unit. Other branches of service don't require a GMO tour - Army definitely does not; I'm not sure about the Air Force. The nice thing is that your GMO tour counts toward your service repayment for USU or HPSP.
-Being a flight surgeon is a specific GMO tour. It's definitely at least 2 years and I believe it generally lasts 3-4. You are assigned to pilots in either the Navy or Marine Corps. You are required to log flight hours with members of your unit, not necessarily stick time on their equipment. For example, you wouldn't be qualifying and logging hours on fighter equipment if you were assigned to a fighter wing, but you may get the opportunity to ride in the back seat depending on the type of aircraft.
-Once you finish your flight surgeon tour, you go back to complete the rest of your residency.

I considered this path myself but ultimately decided that military medicine was not right for me. There may be some errors above; like I said, the military medicine forum may be able to provide better information for you.

Keep in mind "flight surgery" is not surgery - you are basically a primary care physician for flight crews.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

Do flight surgeons actually perform surgery? My understanding was that their training and practice was oriented towards primary care for service members in the aviation branches, and doesn't involve surgery in an OR. I may be wrong, though!

 

[BoboJenkins]

You might want to check with the military-specific forums as they will be able to provide a lot more detail. Here is my (limited) understanding:

-Air Force and Navy are the two branches who have the most flight surgeons; Army has some too. Navy flight surgeons are required to fly themselves and get stick time while in the Air Force they are not. For what you're after and based on my understanding, it seems like Navy is probably the way to go. Keep in mind the Navy also provides healthcare to the Marine Corps.
-You can go to med school through the HPSP or go to USU and commission right away. Once you finish med school you have to apply to military residencies and if you get one, you are required to take it.
-When you are in Navy medicine you generally do a GMO tour after intern year, no matter what specialty you're in (whether it's surgery, internal medicine, etc). That means that for 2 years, you are stationed on a ship or at a base as the general medical officer for a unit. You are responsible all the basic healthcare needs of your unit. Other branches of service don't require a GMO tour - Army definitely does not; I'm not sure about the Air Force. The nice thing is that your GMO tour counts toward your service repayment for USU or HPSP.
-Being a flight surgeon is a specific GMO tour. It's definitely at least 2 years and I believe it generally lasts 3-4. You are assigned to pilots in either the Navy or Marine Corps. You are required to log flight hours with members of your unit, not necessarily stick time on their equipment. For example, you wouldn't be qualifying and logging hours on fighter equipment if you were assigned to a fighter wing, but you may get the opportunity to ride in the back seat depending on the type of aircraft.
-Once you finish your flight surgeon tour, you go back to complete the rest of your residency.

I considered this path myself but ultimately decided that military medicine was not right for me. There may be some errors above; like I said, the military medicine forum may be able to provide better information for you.

Keep in mind "flight surgery" is not surgery - you are basically a primary care physician for flight crews.

Thank you! Very useful information!

 

[BoboJenkins]

Do flight surgeons actually perform surgery? My understanding was that their training and practice was oriented towards primary care for service members in the aviation branches, and doesn't involve surgery in an OR. I may be wrong, though!

They don't perform surgery, their primary duty is to be the primary care physician for flight line members, but I was wondering if I could do both.

 

[j4pac]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. The flight surgeon experience is a bit different from branch to branch. I have a good friend who is an USAF FS, and I know some Army RAMs (residency of aerospace medicine).

If you want to learn how to fly, it becoming increasingly more difficult in the military as a flight surgeon. The money just isn't there. When I went through about 3 years ago, I was able to flight four flights in a training prop and four flights in a training helo. Awesome experience. I am NOT a competent pilot but I at least feel like I would have a fight chance to land a plane or helicopter in the case of an emergency. The Navy puts you through both rotary and fixed wing ground school along with the introductory course of naval aviation called API. I absolutely loved my training experience. In total, the Navy school lasts about 8 months and is significantly longer than both the Army and USAF schools. You will NOT get a detailed introduction to flight through the Army or USAF. But if you are more interested in being apart of the community (and it is a great community) then any of the three branches will suffice. As a warning, since the budget cuts, the Navy student-flight surgeons have had reduced behind the stick training experiences. Tough to tell if it will get better or worse.

In today's military, board certification is essential. After a 2nd flight surgeon tour, you will being to have career regression if you don't go to residency. Most flight surgeons do so between internship and residency. Most do not do residencies in Aerospace Medicine (RAM). That residency is available...but it doesn't translate incredibly well to the civilian world, so it better suited for those who are prior aviators and other military careers who are close to a 20-year retirement. I wouldn't recommend expecting it to be a first residency.

If I were in your shoes...I would have one of two plans...
1) Go Navy...match Gen Surg prelim...become a FS....do 1-2 tours as a flight surgeon...match Ortho residency...serve as board certified Orthopedic surgeon. You could potentially go back to residency in RAM after the fact as a 2nd residency...not a guarantee...but a possibility. Or you could apply for FS billets if you get bored of Ortho after time...but expect skills atrophy

2) Go civilian...match Ortho...become a board certified Orthopedic surgeon. Become rich...get your private pilots license...buy a plane...enjoy the free skies

 

[Banco]

2) Go civilian...match Ortho...become a board certified Orthopedic surgeon. Become rich...get your private pilots license...buy a plane...enjoy the free skies

This is what I was gonna say. Seems like a much easier option.

 

[BoboJenkins]

go take a look at Medical School Headquarters, its a site run by active duty AF doc and primarily does podcast interviews with admissions and students, Tell him I sent you. There is @j4pac who is a naval flight surgeon and active here on the boards. And you can ask general military questions to the founder of SDN, Lt. Colonel Lee Burnett who is a brigade surgeon for the Army and who is did 4 combat tours.

Thanks for your help!

 

[BoboJenkins]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. The flight surgeon experience is a bit different from branch to branch. I have a good friend who is an USAF FS, and I know some Army RAMs (residency of aerospace medicine).

If you want to learn how to fly, it becoming increasingly more difficult in the military as a flight surgeon. The money just isn't there. When I went through about 3 years ago, I was able to flight four flights in a training prop and four flights in a training helo. Awesome experience. I am NOT a competent pilot but I at least feel like I would have a fight chance to land a plane or helicopter in the case of an emergency. The Navy puts you through both rotary and fixed wing ground school along with the introductory course of naval aviation called API. I absolutely loved my training experience. In total, the Navy school lasts about 8 months and is significantly longer than both the Army and USAF schools. You will NOT get a detailed introduction to flight through the Army or USAF. But if you are more interested in being apart of the community (and it is a great community) then any of the three branches will suffice. As a warning, since the budget cuts, the Navy student-flight surgeons have had reduced behind the stick training experiences. Tough to tell if it will get better or worse.

In today's military, board certification is essential. After a 2nd flight surgeon tour, you will being to have career regression if you don't go to residency. Most flight surgeons do so between internship and residency. Most do not do residencies in Aerospace Medicine (RAM). That residency is available...but it doesn't translate incredibly well to the civilian world, so it better suited for those who are prior aviators and other military careers who are close to a 20-year retirement. I wouldn't recommend expecting it to be a first residency.

If I were in your shoes...I would have one of two plans...
1) Go Navy...match Gen Surg prelim...become a FS....do 1-2 tours as a flight surgeon...match Ortho residency...serve as board certified Orthopedic surgeon. You could potentially go back to residency in RAM after the fact as a 2nd residency...not a guarantee...but a possibility. Or you could apply for FS billets if you get bored of Ortho after time...but expect skills atrophy

2) Go civilian...match Ortho...become a board certified Orthopedic surgeon. Become rich...get your private pilots license...buy a plane...enjoy the free skies

Thanks for all your help!

 

[familyaerospace]

As someone who knows more than a little about the field (thank you UND!)

1) You will not be doing surgery or at least it is highly highly unlikely. 90% is primary care, 5% is pathology, 5% actually aerospace medicine. That is coming from Jim Logan who is a NASA trained aerospace medicine physician who gave me advice a few years ago when I was presenting in the field. I have tons of notes from him somewhere all screaming don't go into this field.

2) You do not have to go into the military to be a "flight surgeon" although it is easier. Even if you do go into the military, you might not end up as a flight surgeon. One of my other friends went into the AF for that reason, wasn't allowed to do it. Only went back in when they assured him that he could get boarded in aerospace medicine. I have my eye on possibly doing one of the civilian fellowships or going through the alternative certification program as I already have one of the three requirements and the other two are relatively easy to get.

"Flight surgeon" really is the old fashioned term. Not sure if many people still use it anymore.