Flu shots anyone?

[kami333]

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lol, 👍 You made very good points here and in your last point. Yes I did notice her smiling smirk the entire video, dismissing the reporter as if he knew nothing.

He couldn't pronounce Guillain Barre.
He equated psychogenic disorder with crazy.

 

[7starmantis]

^^ second point is. thats worrying that they do not have enough. but floridaa. ummmm its not even cold there 😉

lol but they have more old people than bingo night at the retirement facility.

 

[schrizto]

lol, 👍 You made very good points here and in your last point. Yes I did notice her smiling smirk the entire video, dismissing the reporter as if he knew nothing.

Well the reporter did ask questions like "Wait, you say psychogenic, does that mean she's crazy?" which I can see irritating someone with a medical background.

I think the doctor that was interviewed had good intentions, but she came across as smug, arrogant, and insincere, which isn't helping to quell the public's view on what happened. Look at the comments on the youtube video.

 

[StormingWynn]

He couldn't pronounce Guillain Barre.
He equated psychogenic disorder with crazy.

The pronunciation of a name constitutes stupidity? Equating psychogenic disorder with crazy constitutes stupidity? You must be kidding me. If I saw that name I myself would mispronounce it as well. After all no one is able to pronounce every single name correctly. I think that when he said "crazy" he was merely saying that it was in her mind, which turns out that IS what psychogenic disorder is.

 

[schrizto]

This is one comment from a user named MForys on Youtube after viewing the interview with the doctor:

The fact is, the flu shot is unecessary... it always has been. and not worth the risk.

Not worth the risk? Unnecessary? Whaaat? People who hear about this single case of the cheerleader with dystonia and their concept of the risks involved with flu shots becomes ridiculously magnified.

 

[foster033]

listen again 👎

i researched the literature EXTENSIVELY and i could NOT find or anyone had ever reported this type of distonic reaction that they were talking about, AND CONSEQUENTLY the university of maryland SOM, head of neurology department had called me because a couple of movement disorder experts have been looking at the video and they all really feel this is psychogenic meaning this isn't caused from the flu, it isn't caused from the vaccine.....

maybe you should listen again and this time take the context into account...the journalist asked her how often this has happened with the flu vaccine and she responded by saying that an extensive search of the literature showed this had never happened before...additionally she goes on to say that movement disorder experts who have viewed the tape all really feel this is possibly psychogenic.

see a slight distinction there from what you're trying to say.

how did they come to this conclusion? because of her EXTENSIVE RESEARCH.

I don't think that's implied anywhere...it looks like they saw the video and came to their own conclusions...however the fact that this isn't seen in the research really does support another cause.

she has no right to disregard the patient's opinion, the patient who she has never SEEN, from a pile of articles and reports.

Really, so we should just go around and let pts. diagnose themselves....guess we don't even need doctors anymore...the pt. can have an opinion all she wants but that doesn't mean anyone has to take it seriously, not all opinions are created equal.

and at 3:05, she goes on to say. YOU CANT FIND IN THE LITERATURE. stop with the literature. if everything under the sun was in the literature we could all just stop research right now.

Oh so we should disregard all of the research that has been done....what's the point of publishing anything if we don't use it...and again...she was responding to the question of how often does this happen.

3:27 she says it one more time, i cant find it in the literature. what is she on tv for, just to take silent digs at the patient and hint that shes a fraud?

Seriously you sound as bad as the journalist....she's not saying the pt. is a fraud, she saying in her medical opinion it's much more likely that this is psychogenic...which doesn't mean she's a fraud or that she's crazy.

3:50 that case in the past, she says "BUT thats true". clearly she feels this entire thing to be a fraud. whether it is a fraud thats not my concern, what concerns me is her tone of voice and her lack of trust in the patient. lack of empathy u can say.

no I think she's saying that's true that guillaine barre has been associated with flu vaccine while answering the journalist question.

she goes on to emphasize how important the flu shot is, and disregard the entirety of this case. 😎

the flu shot is important, it is not with out risk, but it does much more good than harm...

alright im done here. watch her tone of voice throughout of the video, and her choice of words, like i mentioned above. trust between doctor and patients is the more important thing in health care, and i am disappointede with such disregard and the lack of sincerity in trying to fully understand the patient before jumping to conclusions on a tv program

you need to be able to differentiate between legitimate and non-ligament stories about health care. this is not her pt. and this doctor is trying to relate to the general public that there really is no story here which is way more important than one persons feelings.

 

[foster033]

Well, if its not likely then we certainly shouldn't educate people about it, after all they are the general populace and we all know they are too stupid to make rational decisions about their own care.

That's not what I'm saying at all...I'm saying if you're going to tell people this is possible side effect then you better have proof. People should know about the possible risks, but they should be the real risks, not some perceived risk.

have you ever done research before?
in clinical research, you have to inform your patient of every single possible mishap. and this can include slipping on the floor... if i exaggerate.

lol! yeah, extensively, and not just in undergrad, it's my job, and I'm pretty good at it...have you?
Again, there's a difference between informing pts. of actual risks and informing them of something that a cheerleader thinks is a risk...if you can't see the difference between those two things I don't know what to tell you.

especially in a democratic country, all information should be released to the public, and allow the patient to decide for him or herself.

just because something has no p<0.05 does not mean that it is insignificant. just because something has never happened before, doesnt mean that we do not prepare for it, doesnt mean that we hide from it, doesnt mean that we ignore it.

All reliable information that has proven correlation should be made available to the public...I don't think anyone is hiding or ignoring this...just making sure that the truth, backed by evidence is seen, not just the opinion of a lay person who is sick and wants there to be a reason.

 

[kami333]

The pronunciation of a name constitutes stupidity? Equating psychogenic disorder with crazy constitutes stupidity? You must be kidding me. If I saw that name I myself would mispronounce it as well. After all no one is able to pronounce every single name correctly. I think that when he said "crazy" he was merely saying that it was in her mind, which turns out that IS what psychogenic disorder is.

If you are going to go on national television and ask a question, then yes I definitely think you need to be able to pronounce it correctly, not being able to do so undermines your credibility.

He didn't ask "psychogenic, what does that mean", instead he already had a misinformed definition of the word.


I don't expect people to know everything, but I do have a problem with those who have an opinion on issues that they have no idea about and want to act like experts. I'm sure you've met at least one person who fits that profile, whether it is a premed who already acts like a doctor, the college tour guide who claims the reason why there are no sorority houses is because X unrelated girls living together constitutes a whorehouse according to some law, the guy at Autozone who talks about turbo-ing his Neon, or the salesman at Best Buy who claims you can't install XP on a computer because it comes with Vista (surprisingly, the guys at Home Depot and Lowes are usually pretty knowledgeable if you ever need home repair advice). People need to recognize the limits of their knowledge, stop spreading lies, and learn to defer to the experts.

 

[7starmantis]

Well the reporter did ask questions like "Wait, you say psychogenic, does that mean she's crazy?" which I can see irritating someone with a medical background.

All the attacks on the poor reporter. Why would we assume that a reporter asks only questions that he himself doesn't know the answer to. Isn't it their job to disseminate information to the general public? Would the general public know what psychogenic means? Maybe he was just asking questions to help those watching understand better? Poor guy, whomever he is, he's just reporting... lol

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Guillain Barre is a 1/100,000 complication (and that's including when it's caused by infections and not vaccines), meaning if EVERYONE on the planet got a flu shot less than 70,000 people would develop the syndome. Of those 70,000 less than 7,000 will go on to have permanent disabilites, and this includes people in developing countries who just don't have access to medical care.
Your risk of dying because of the flu, on the other hand, is much higher. Every vaccine/medication (even antibiotics) you take is a cost-benefit analysis. Would you rather risk getting Heptatis A or having an extremely rare vaccine-related complication?

/rant

People who don't vaccinate their children piss me off.

 

[wanderer]

It's sad that people are probably going to die because they heard about this instance and then refused to get a flu shot.

I've heard quite a few health care workers state that they didn't like getting flu shots because they believed that it made them slightly sick (it is mandatory in my state). Then I hear people saying how they feared the H1N1 flu vaccine because it has "made people very sick." They were probably referring to the following story.

From the New York Times:

Some anti-vaccine groups are also highly organized and quick to respond to openings to promote their message. For instance, this week, an 8-year-old boy from Long Island died roughly a week after receiving a seasonal flu vaccine, though officials from the New York State Department of Health denied a connection.
Almost instantly, on a memorial page on Newsday's Web site for the boy, Sean Weisse, a message from an anti-vaccine advocacy group appeared: "We are so sorry to hear about Sean. My understanding, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that this was a vaccine-related injury. If so, we would like to help you. Best regards, Stan Kurtz, Generation Rescue, Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy's Organization."


Correction: October 21, 2009
An article on Friday about the effect the swine flu vaccine has had on the anti-vaccine movement misidentified the type of vaccine that an 8-year-old from Long Island had received a week before he died. It was a seasonal flu vaccine, not a swine flu vaccine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/health/16vaccine.html

 

[nogolfinsnow]

It's sad that people are probably going to die because they heard about this instance and then refused to get a flu shot.

I've heard quite a few health care workers state that they didn't like getting flu shots because they believed that it made them slightly sick (it is mandatory in my state). Then I hear people saying how they feared the H1N1 flu vaccine because it has "made people very sick." They were probably referring to the following story.

From the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/16/health/16vaccine.html

Just read the linked article. So these jackasses will run out and buy unregulated "vitamins" that "protect against swine flu" that for all they know contain moon cheese and monkey crap but they won't get an FDA approved and safe vaccination? It's interesting to see evolution in action.

 

[jl lin]

NYS was trying to force nurses take H1N1 or get fired.

Another colleague told me in another state admitting physicians are required also.

After I read a pharma PhD's insights into them, well I have to say I find them a bit troubling. Not that I haven't had any. But as far a flu shots, had horrific reactions in the past to them, so . . .

I also have VERY serious concerns about Gardasil.

 

[swamprat]

Does anyone have an idea why swine flu vaccines are recommended for children and adults up to age 24 and then after like 65 or something. Is it because 18-24 year olds are more likely to be active and apart of college communities and interacting with a lot of people? Or is it something in the immune system that isn't full functional? I am debating getting the vaccine when it makes its way around here I think sometime next week. I've never had a flu shot before and all this media hype is freaking me out a bit.

 

[DRIN]

I have never gotten a flu shot and have not contracted the flu in probably 15 years...I don't plan on getting either vaccination this year either.

 

[bannie22]

foster, sorry to tell you, but most of your points are so blindingly invalid that i feel it an absolute waste of my time to continue my conversation with someone of your level.

i wouldnt mind going to maryland, but i might have to reconsider if i had you as my doctor.

i strongly suggest you take a good night's sleep, watch the video, and then re-read my previous post again!

 

[c5212]

heard about this in my anatomy class... this is some scary s*** . I feel soooooo sorry for her 🙁

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Does anyone have an idea why swine flu vaccines are recommended for children and adults up to age 24 and then after like 65 or something. Is it because 18-24 year olds are more likely to be active and apart of college communities and interacting with a lot of people? Or is it something in the immune system that isn't full functional? I am debating getting the vaccine when it makes its way around here I think sometime next week. I've never had a flu shot before and all this media hype is freaking me out a bit.

I think the reasoning behind this is that children and adults over 65 are generally "weaker" and have a higher chance of dying from influenza or developing some severe influenza-related complication. As for the 18-24 part, you're probably right about the in-close-contact-with-others-every-day reason.

Could be wrong though.

 

[Depakote]

Does anyone have an idea why swine flu vaccines are recommended for children and adults up to age 24 and then after like 65 or something. Is it because 18-24 year olds are more likely to be active and apart of college communities and interacting with a lot of people? Or is it something in the immune system that isn't full functional? I am debating getting the vaccine when it makes its way around here I think sometime next week. I've never had a flu shot before and all this media hype is freaking me out a bit.

I believe the recommendation for adolescents stems from the relative naivety of their immune systems when facing this bug. It is likely that they haven't encountered strains similar to H1N1 before and would have no pre-existing antibodies that would assist in fighting it off. Older individuals who have been exposed to more strains of the flu will have a bigger repertoire of antibodies to choose from and will likely do a better job recognizing H1N1 as a strain of the flu virus and then mounting an immune response.

As for the elderly, they should theoretically do the best job recognizing H1N1... however, older patients with more co-morbidities are more likely to die as a result of an influenza infection and its complications so they are high risk.

 

[Hoody]

I got both H1N1 and seasonal. At the same time. Im just that hardcore. 🙂

 

[orthomyxo]

I got both H1N1 and seasonal. At the same time. Im just that hardcore. 🙂

You rebel you...

 

[nuneyah]

Well, getting a seasonal flu shot is required for all the medicine-related places I volunteer at. I'd rather risk getting what she has than risk not getting into med school due to lack of "clinical experience"!

 

[Melicopter]

Isn't rapid-onset dystonia-parkinsonism typically triggered by some random stressful event? In my understanding, that's often a genetic issue, just waiting under the surface for a triggering event... Excellent timing to hit the media, with all the other hype going on, if that's what it is.

 

[foster033]

foster, sorry to tell you, but most of your points are so blindingly invalid that i feel it an absolute waste of my time to continue my conversation with someone of your level.

i wouldnt mind going to maryland, but i might have to reconsider if i had you as my doctor.

i strongly suggest you take a good night's sleep, watch the video, and then re-read my previous post again!

If my points are so blindingly invalid shouldn't it be easy for someone of your level to show what's wrong with them?
Instead you choose not to respond at all...I replied with what was ACTUALLY said in the video, not an interpretation as you did. I strongly suggest you re-watch the video...or just critically think about it for awhile...
honestly, it sounds like you have just enough knowledge to be dangerous....

 

[tennisball80]

I simply feel sorry for her. 🙁

 

[dukemed22]

Has any doctor or medical expert actually come out and say that this was caused by the flu vaccine??

And on a related note 😆

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gj5_PFbVo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[7starmantis]

Ok thats just messed up

 

[orthomyxo]

Ok thats just messed up

Yes...very. What the hell is wrong with you?

 

[chman]

Does anyone have an idea why swine flu vaccines are recommended for children and adults up to age 24 and then after like 65 or something. Is it because 18-24 year olds are more likely to be active and apart of college communities and interacting with a lot of people? Or is it something in the immune system that isn't full functional? I am debating getting the vaccine when it makes its way around here I think sometime next week. I've never had a flu shot before and all this media hype is freaking me out a bit.

Unlike other flue viruses, the H1N1 seams to hit young people hard.

EDIT: For instance, early 20 something year-olds have gotten a lot sicker then they have with previous flue strains. At least that is what I saw on tv.

 

[Gallix23]

Very sad story, but it just goes to show that anything involved in medicine has its risks.

I got the live virus standard flu shot a couple weeks ago and am doing the same for H1N1 in a week or two.

 

[wanderer]

Has any doctor or medical expert actually come out and say that this was caused by the flu vaccine??

Well if Inside Edition implies that her condition was caused by the flu shot, then it must be true. 🙄

I got the live virus standard flu shot a couple weeks ago and am doing the same for H1N1 in a week or two.

The standard shot is a dead virus.

 

[Hoody]

t just goes to show that anything involved in medicine has its risks.

truth. life has risks, you aren't gaurenteed (or entitled to) anything. This thread reminds me of vaccines and autism....So much misinformation in this world, so many naive lemmings. 🙁

 

[Lokhtar]

My grandfather read the Bible ten days before he died. That must be it.

Anecdotal evidence is not data. And the plural of anecdotes is not data either.

 

[dukemed22]

Well if Inside Edition implies that her condition was caused by the flu shot, then it must be true. 🙄

I mean it seems to me as if this lady drew the conclusion that since she got the flu vaccine 10 days earlier, this is the cause of her symptoms. But is there absolutely any proof of this? Has anyone else made this connection? People are complete fools to give any credibility to this woman's theory, seeing as she has no training in medicine or science.

 

[StormingWynn]

I mean it seems to me as if this lady drew the conclusion that since she got the flu vaccine 10 days earlier, this is the cause of her symptoms. But is there absolutely any proof of this? Has anyone else made this connection? People are complete fools to give any credibility to this woman's theory, seeing as she has no training in medicine or science.

As I heard on the video. She went to a hospital and was diagnosed with dystonia. That's why she came out.

 

[dukemed22]

As I heard on the video. She went to a hospital and was diagnosed with dystonia. That's why she came out.

... and? Did the doctors tell her that the flu vaccine may have caused this?

 

[kami333]

Unlike other flue viruses, the H1N1 seams to hit young people hard.

EDIT: For instance, early 20 something year-olds have gotten a lot sicker then they have with previous flue strains. At least that is what I saw on tv.

My anecdotal experience is that yes, H1N1 flu made me a lot sicker than I usually get. I'm usually really sick for 2-3days with the seasonal flu, when I had H1N1 in May I was in bed for a over a week.

 

[StormingWynn]

... and? Did the doctors tell her that the flu vaccine may have caused this?

NO, they said the probably cause of her disorder was the FLU shot. They never said it was and that's what she's saying. It was probably the flu shot. And that's what the reporter was arguing after the doctor said because their is no recorded literature we must rule of the flu shot.

 

[kami333]

NO, they said the probably cause of her disorder was the FLU shot. They never said it was and that's what she's saying. It was probably the flu shot. And that's what the reporter was arguing after the doctor said because their is no recorded literature we must rule of the flu shot.

So what was she supposed to say when she was specifically asked if this had ever happened before?

"Well, there has never been a published case, nor has anyone else come forward with a similar case. But we have faith that it has happened before because even though there's no proof, we have faith."

 

[dukemed22]

NO, they said the probably cause of her disorder was the FLU shot. They never said it was and that's what she's saying. It was probably the flu shot. And that's what the reporter was arguing after the doctor said because their is no recorded literature we must rule of the flu shot.

What? So you're saying that the doctors that she saw told her that the flu shot is probably what caused her to develop these symptoms? Does the woman mention this somewhere? It seems to me that this entire thing is pure conjecture on her part.

 

[StormingWynn]

What? So you're saying that the doctors that she saw told her that the flu shot is probably what caused her to develop these symptoms? Does the woman mention this somewhere? It seems to me that this entire thing is pure conjecture on her part.

If you do a quick search, you'll find that she went to hospitals including JHU.

 

[schrizto]

If you do a quick search, you'll find that she went to hospitals including JHU.

That doesn't mean anything... we're still hearing this flu-dystonia connection from her only.

 

[StormingWynn]

That doesn't mean anything... we're still hearing this flu-dystonia connection from her only.

Well okay then, lets completely dismiss her claims and the doctors, which I agree she might have not even seen, as wrong. All I was arguing was that doctors arrogance and mistreatment of a person who is suffering, whether it be dystonia or conversion disorder, in the end that girl is being affected by something and that doctor made a diagnosis over a video.

 

[wanderer]

Well okay then, lets completely dismiss her claims and the doctors, which I agree she might have not even seen, as wrong. All I was arguing was that doctors arrogance and mistreatment of a person who is suffering, whether it be dystonia or conversion disorder, in the end that girl is being affected by something and that doctor made a diagnosis over a video.

A doctor's diagnosis over a video is more valid than a laywoman's self-diagnosis. Furthermore I fail to see how the doctor "mistreated" that woman.

 

[jvesco22]

Has any doctor or medical expert actually come out and say that this was caused by the flu vaccine??

And on a related note 😆

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gj5_PFbVo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Gallix23]

The standard shot is a dead virus.

I know, I use the word shot loosely. I suppose I should say I'm getting the H1N1 spray soon, my pcp said he likes the live virus since it's more natural due to the flu being an airborne virus in nature, and who likes getting stuck in the arm anyways? 😀

 

[dukemed22]

If you do a quick search, you'll find that she went to hospitals including JHU.

Not to be a dick, but I really don't understand what you are trying to say. She went to JHU... GREAT! But did the people at JHU, or doctors anywhere for that matter, tell her that the flu shot may have caused this? I haven't done too much research on this story, but has any reputable doctor said anything like this? Of course, anything is possible, and you shouldn't rule out any possibility... but it seems to me as if the ONLY person claiming that the flu vaccine caused these symptoms is the poor woman herself. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[J1515]

yes this would cause some panic in the public, but im sure if ure a patient, you would have wanted to know the "possibilities", instead of *touchwood* if you do get a side effect, you do not want to feel like uve been cheated do you?

From uptodate, some of the possible reported side effects from Levaquin. Next time I have pneumonia I'll just use herbal supplements and vitamins. /sarcasm off

<1% (Limited to important or life-threatening):
Systemic: Acute renal failure, agitation, agranulocytosis; allergic reaction (including anaphylaxis, angioedema, pneumonitis rash, pneumonitis, and serum sickness); anaphylactoid reaction, arrhythmia (including atrial/ventricular tachycardia/fibrillation and torsade de pointes), aplastic anemia, arthralgia, ascites, bradycardia, bronchospasm, carcinoma, cardiac failure, cholecystitis, cholelithiasis, confusion, depression, EEG abnormalities, encephalopathy, eosinophilia, erythema multiforme, GI hemorrhage, granulocytopenia, hallucination, heart block, hemolytic anemia, hemoptysis, hepatic failure (some fatal), hepatitis, hyper-/hypoglycemia, hyperkalemia, hyperkinesias, hyper-/hypotension, infection, INR increased, intestinal obstruction, intracranial hypertension, involuntary muscle contractions, jaundice, leukocytosis, leukopenia, leukorrhea, lymphadenopathy, MI, migraine, multiple organ failure, myalgia, nephritis (interstitial), palpitation, pancreatitis, pancytopenia, paralysis, paresthesia, peripheral neuropathy, photosensitivity (<0.1%), pleural effusion, pneumonitis, postural hypotension, prothrombin time increased/decreased, pseudomembraneous colitis, psychosis, pulmonary edema, pulmonary embolism, purpura, QTc prolongation, respiratory depression, rhabdomyolysis, seizure, skin disorder, somnolence, speech disorder, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, stupor, suicide attempt/ideation, syncope, tendonitis, tendon rupture, tongue edema, toxic epidermal necrolysis, transaminases increased, thrombocythemia, thrombocytopenia, tremor, urticaria, WBC abnormality

 

[schrizto]

jvesco: I saw the picture you used and then from the watermark I found where the picture came from:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniele_Fiorenza

idk about this but after reading that the use of that picture seems really mean.

 

[dukemed22]

jvesco: I saw the picture you used and then from the watermark I found where the picture came from:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniele_Fiorenza

idk about this but after reading that the use of that picture seems really mean.

That website is freakin hilarious