FM at Jefferson in Philly open to DOs?

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Just from their residency list in the past 4 years, they have not had a DO. Does anyone know if they are open to DOs?

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[smq123]

Just from their residency list in the past 4 years, they have not had a DO. Does anyone know if they are open to DOs?

As far as I am aware, they don't typically interview DOs.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

As far as I am aware, they don't typically interview DOs.

Thank you @smq123. Is this just bias or is there another reason? PCOM is in the area so I am surprised.

 

[smq123]

Thank you @smq123. Is this just bias or is there another reason? PCOM is in the area so I am surprised.

I honestly have no idea. I don't think it's any particular bias. It's a got a good reputation and it's in a desirable location for a lot of people, so I imagine that they get a LOT of applicants every year. There has to be some way of whittling down your applicant list so that your interview days are manageable, and that may just be one parameter that they chose. I don't think that they interview many FMGs either.

 

[MADD!!!]

Currently a PCOM student. Not surprised about this. There's a TON of FM residencies AOA in the area, including our own. Seeing as how most ppl who want FM don't even end up taking USMLE with the combination of many AOA programs in Philly itself, you don't see many people caring to go the lengths to get the FM residency at Jeff. (They require USMLE only and have a 220+ range for USMLE averages I believe.)

In terms of bias, it's very little here. If you are competitive, they will consider you equally to other applicants. But of course, being competitive to others applying for the program is easier said than done.

 

[hallowmann]

Just from their residency list in the past 4 years, they have not had a DO. Does anyone know if they are open to DOs?

I didn't apply to the inside Philly programs, but applied to many other ones throughout the state. PA FM programs are very DO friendly and half are dual-accredited. Its possible Jeff isn't particularly DO-friendly, or its possible there are just so many other options that DOs that would apply don't feel the need to jump through hoops when there are equivalent or better programs that don't say things like "USMLE-only" in the same area.

 

[MADD!!!]

I didn't apply to the inside Philly programs, but applied to many other ones throughout the state. PA FM programs are very DO friendly and half are dual-accredited. Its possible Jeff isn't particularly DO-friendly, or its possible there are just so many other options that DOs that would apply don't feel the need to jump through hoops when there are equivalent or better programs that don't say things like "USMLE-only" in the same area.

I've gotta back up Jeff here. They aren't biased against DO's, but you need to be as competitive as anyone else when applying to their program. I.E. USMLE only and whatever else any MD student has. Seeing it from the insider's perspective now, there aren't many FM applicants who have strong board scores, but the ones who do do get in to top programs. (We've had students match to UPenn for FM as well, although rare).

 

[hallowmann]

I've gotta back up Jeff here. They aren't biased against DO's, but you need to be as competitive as anyone else when applying to their program. I.E. USMLE only and whatever else any MD student has. Seeing it from the insider's perspective now, there aren't many FM applicants who have strong board scores, but the ones who do do get in to top programs. (We've had students match to UPenn for FM as well, although rare).

UPenn isn't a top FM program. Lancaster General on the other hand is (its why Penn affiliated with the LGH program). I've interviewed at a lot of the "top" FM programs (including Lancaster General). Most don't have a "USMLE only" policy. I personally took the USMLEs and I still think its ridiculous for an FM program to require it. It has nothing to do with getting "top only" applicants, its got to do with making DOs pay an extra $1200 and jump through extra hoops or pure laziness.

 

[MADD!!!]

UPenn isn't a top FM program. Lancaster General on the other hand is (its why Penn affiliated with the LGH program). I've interviewed at a lot of the "top" FM programs (including Lancaster General). Most don't have a "USMLE only" policy. I personally took the USMLEs and I still think its ridiculous for an FM program to require it. It has nothing to do with getting "top only" applicants, its got to do with making DOs pay an extra $1200 and jump through extra hoops or pure laziness.

Depends on how you look at it. I can see a PD saying this is the fairest way to compare candidates apple-to-apple. Also I’ve noticed a general trend where it’s usually the university programs (just the main hospital campus) that require USMLE’s, generally for higher-tier MD programs.

Also it could be another screening tool as these programs probably get more applicants and need to trim down applicants like more competitive specialties do.

 

[hallowmann]

Depends on how you look at it. I can see a PD saying this is the fairest way to compare candidates apple-to-apple. Also I’ve noticed a general trend where it’s usually the university programs (just the main hospital campus) that require USMLE’s, generally for higher-tier MD programs.

Also it could be another screening tool as these programs probably get more applicants and need to trim down applicants like more competitive specialties do.

For FM its simply not a given that the university campus is a better/higher tier program. It varies. I'm not saying its not the case anywhere, but in this case, it absolutely is true. I've already explained it. Believe what you want.

 

[MADD!!!]

For FM its simply not a given that the university campus is a better/higher tier program. It varies. I'm not saying its not the case anywhere, but in this case, it absolutely is true. I've already explained it. Believe what you want.

I believe you! Just saying they tend to go with USMLE only. That doesn’t equate to them being a better program or not.

 

[Hamhock]

the USMLEs and I still think its ridiculous for an FM program to require it.

No, what's ridiculous is that there are two "types" of medicine and two sets of qualification exams.
There should be one standard.
End of story.

HH

 

[hallowmann]

No, what's ridiculous is that there are two "types" of medicine and two sets of qualification exams.
There should be one standard.
End of story.

HH

I don't disagree. But that's not the world we live in is it. I would have loved to only take the USMLE rather than having to prepare, pay for, and take both exams to keep my options open.

That has nothing to do with whether or not its ridiculous for an FM program to require the USMLE in a DO heavy state with plenty of DO programs and familiarity with the COMLEX.

 

[Hamhock]

That has nothing to do with whether or not its ridiculous for an FM program to require the USMLE in a DO heavy state with plenty of DO programs and familiarity with the COMLEX.

There is no way an allopathic residency should be worry one second about the COMPLEX or accommodating students who study a different discipline and take a test that examines knowledge about a discipline that is not under their purview or of their concern.

The burden is fully on the applicant applying to allopathic programs to meet the allopathic standards. If said applicant wants to take some extra courses and some extra tests -- no problem. Extra knowledge maybe looked upon favorably, whether it be in law, business, engineering, basic science, or osteopathy. Excellence on the LSAT or COMPLEX may be considered a bonus by some programs -- but the standards and minimum requirements for allopathic medicine (the USMLE) must be met before acceptance.

HH

 

[hallowmann]

There is no way an allopathic residency should be worry one second about the COMPLEX or accommodating students who study a different discipline and take a test that examines knowledge about a discipline that is not under their purview or of their concern.

The burden is fully on the applicant applying to allopathic programs to meet the allopathic standards. If said applicant wants to take some extra courses and some extra tests -- no problem. Extra knowledge maybe looked upon favorably, whether it be in law, business, engineering, basic science, or osteopathy. Excellence on the LSAT or COMPLEX may be considered a bonus by some programs -- but the standards and minimum requirements for allopathic medicine (the USMLE) must be met before acceptance.

HH

First off, its COMLEX. I spelled it correctly in my post. You quoted it. You don't seem to be particularly familiar with it. I would be surprised if you were in faculty at an FM program in a state with as big of a DO presence as PA, but hey maybe I'm wrong.

Secondly, worrying about something/accommodating it, and being aware of it are two completely different things. FM programs in PA have plenty of DOs, as I said earlier, many are (were? not sure the terminology given the merger) dually accredited. A lot of those PDs and faculty already know about the COMLEX and how its scored.

Thirdly, "standards and minimum requirements for allopathic medicine (the USMLE) must be met before acceptance" is kind of a ridiculous statement considering that there are tons of ACGME programs (many of them FM programs) that take plenty of DOs that have never taken any of the USMLE Steps. I guess that "minimum requirement for allopathic medicine" doesn't mean a whole lot to them.

Something tells me we're not going to agree on any of this, and even more so, you feel like you have a bone to pick with some osteopaths, so I'm not sure how useful further discussion will be, so I think I'll bow out. But hey, don't worry, I'm just a simple osteopathic physician, what do I know, right?

 

[smq123]

Let’s not turn this into an MD vs. DO debate, please.

The question has already been answered. If anyone has anything other information for the OP, please post it, but let’s stay away from the merits of DOs vs. MDs. Thanks.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Thanks all! If anyone has anything to add about this program please do so.

 

[yunsenb]

Does anyone know how competitive this program is to get into?