FM programs with few IMGs/DOs

[docnik]

Hello,
I am fourth year med student in Florida looking at programs mainly in the SE and also Texas and NY. Does anyone have any suggestions for programs in this area with very few or no IMG's and or DO's. I guess I sort of view these programs as being more competitive and this is what I am looking for.
Also, does anyone know of a resource or website where I can find the # or IMG's each residency program has. The aafp website doesn't tell you this info.
Thanks for your help!

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[floweree]

Hello,
I am fourth year med student in Florida looking at programs mainly in the SE and also Texas and NY. Does anyone have any suggestions for programs in this area with very few or no IMG's and or DO's. I guess I sort of view these programs as being more competitive and this is what I am looking for.
Also, does anyone know of a resource or website where I can find the # or IMG's each residency program has. The aafp website doesn't tell you this info.
Thanks for your help!

dude I'd get off your high horse, not to slap or degrade the FM people, but your applying FM

 

[raptor5]

Hello,
I am fourth year med student in Florida looking at programs mainly in the SE and also Texas and NY. Does anyone have any suggestions for programs in this area with very few or no IMG's and or DO's. I guess I sort of view these programs as being more competitive and this is what I am looking for.
Also, does anyone know of a resource or website where I can find the # or IMG's each residency program has. The aafp website doesn't tell you this info.
Thanks for your help!

Put that in your personal statement and tell me how it works out for you. Good Luck finding a FM program that shuns DOs or IMGs.

 

[Shodddy18]

Hello,
I am fourth year med student in Florida looking at programs mainly in the SE and also Texas and NY. Does anyone have any suggestions for programs in this area with very few or no IMG's and or DO's. I guess I sort of view these programs as being more competitive and this is what I am looking for.
Also, does anyone know of a resource or website where I can find the # or IMG's each residency program has. The aafp website doesn't tell you this info.
Thanks for your help!

Dont worry man, we will give up our seat on the front of the bus and move to the back when you come on.

 

[Shinken]

 

[Shinken]

I can really see it clearly:

Attending: "Welcome Dr. docnik. I'm sure you'll make a fine family physician when you finish our program."

docnik: "Thank you Attending. I'm very glad I was admitted to this great, competitive program. I knew this was a great program because there are no IMGs or DOs in here."

Attending: "Uh...yeah. Anyway, I'll be your attending during your Internal Medicine rotation. Dr. Yanesh will be your attending in your next rotation."

docnik: "Excuse me? Dr. Yanesh? Isn't that the physician from Hopkins?"

Attending: "No. He's from India."

docnik: "Oh...Oh, well. At least I get to do this important rotation with you. Are you a US med school graduate?"

Attending: "Sure am"

docnik: "Really? Where?"

Attending: "Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine."

docnik: "Oh..."

{awkward silence}

Attending: "Very well then, let's start. Get me some coffee. Sugar and cream, please."

docnik: "Yes sir! Right away sir!"

{nurses giggle in the background}

 

[docnik]

Thank you all for your very helpful replys!
I'm sorry that you all are so bitter that you weren't smart enough to get into an American allopathic medical school.
If anyone has anything useful to say, I appreciate your advice, otherwise why don't you just get a life.
thanks!

 

[medlaw06]

Thank you all for your very helpful replys!
I'm sorry that you all are so bitter that you weren't smart enough to get into an American allopathic medical school.
If anyone has anything useful to say, I appreciate your advice, otherwise why don't you just get a life.
thanks!

You welcome for your enlightened question....I guess even though "we" are too "stupid" to NOT get into MD schools, you have also SHOWN HOW BRILLIANTLY ALTRUISTIC you are with your EXTREMELY CULTURAL and DEEP, MEANINGFUL remarks which TRULY EXEMPLIFY your pursuit for the MD that you are as well....AHHH YESSS...the brilliant and erudite MD that is none other than the famous and sensitive DOCNIK


I guess the next thing you SHOULD say is that certain groups of people should use certain bathrooms and that women should be home, barefoot and pregnant instead of in medicine....your remarks DO kinda border on those principles, don't they....I mean...it's kinda similar to a thread that says:

Yes...so could someone please let me know where I can find a program that doesn't have blacks, mexicans, indians, asians, gays, lesbians, Catholics, Irish people, Jews, or Communists...

DocNik...let me know where you plan on practicing so I NEVER SEE YOU!!! However, maybe someday I will refer all my hispanic and black patients to you so you

Take care D*****S

 

[medlaw06]

 

[raptor5]

To the OP. good luck in Texas. I think half the programs in Texas are Dual approved or close to becoming dual approved by the AOA/ACGME. Let me know which programs you find so I know not to apply there as they will likely not interview me b/c of my DO education and my skin color. A program that purposely shuns DOs and FMGs isn't looking for the most competitive applicant or best physician they are looking for the most shallow applicant that mirrors their program. How bout them apples.

 

[sophiejane]

He or she will figure it out the first time they get completely schooled by a DO or FMG fellow resident or attending. I just wish I could be a fly on the wall when that happens....

And to the OP, if you are smart enough to get into an AMERICAN ALLOPATHIC institution, surely you are smart enough to do your own research on residency programs that are composed entirely of brilliant AMERICAN ALLOPATHS like yourself.

By the way, Einstein, the plural of the word "reply" is not "replys" but "replies". I'm sure some IMGs at your future FM program could help you with your grammar if you are really nice to them.

 

[Shinken]

docnik, first of all let me say that...

Oh, wait...you're banned.

Never mind.

 

[allendo]

Thank you all for your very helpful replys!
I'm sorry that you all are so bitter that you weren't smart enough to get into an American allopathic medical school.
If anyone has anything useful to say, I appreciate your advice, otherwise why don't you just get a life.
thanks!

How can you say that your smarter than someone b/c you went allo, if your so much smarter then how are you going to end up in the same places?

 

[carn311]

Thank you all for your very helpful replys!
I'm sorry that you all are so bitter that you weren't smart enough to get into an American allopathic medical school.
If anyone has anything useful to say, I appreciate your advice, otherwise why don't you just get a life.
thanks!

My brother-in-law just married into an Indian family. An Indian family filled with entrepreneurs, pharmaceutical engineers, and...PHYSICIANS NOW PRACTICING IN THE US. One of said physicians even rose to the title of hospital administrator. After speaking to the members of this family I have concluded that they are some of the most brilliant people I have ever met and some of the most modest. Your comments are naive and border on racism. It's amazing to me that somehow puffed up people such as yourself can find themselves in such a service oriented profession as medicine. I just hope you end up practicing in an area filled with US born white male Caucasian so that you will not be forced to treat stupid patients.

 

[andwhat]

Hello,
I am fourth year med student in Florida looking at programs mainly in the SE and also Texas and NY. Does anyone have any suggestions for programs in this area with very few or no IMG's and or DO's. I guess I sort of view these programs as being more competitive and this is what I am looking for.
Also, does anyone know of a resource or website where I can find the # or IMG's each residency program has. The aafp website doesn't tell you this info.
Thanks for your help!

thats just a horrible and low class statement, arent DOs considered as US grads???? terrible, just horrible. I will never understand it, nor care to.

 

[2112_rush]

dude I'd get off your high horse, not to slap or degrade the FM people, but your applying FM

I agree with these people, but to answer your question...I think that can be found on AMA's FREIDA website

 

[size_tens]

I think everyone on this board is giving docnik a little more of a hard time than he deserves. While the phrasing of his question is not pc, the guy is just looking for a high quality fm program. It's reasonable to suggest that the most competitive residency positions tend to have very low numbers of DO's and IMG's. Whether or not these competitive programs actually provide better training is arguable.

 

[ramonaquimby]

I think everyone on this board is giving docnik a little more of a hard time than he deserves. While the phrasing of his question is not pc, the guy is just looking for a high quality fm program. It's reasonable to suggest that the most competitive residency positions tend to have very low numbers of DO's and IMG's. Whether or not these competitive programs actually provide better training is arguable.

i agree. the OP has a point, though it wasn't phrased properly. and of course, "whether or not these competitive programs actually provide better training is arguable" is undeniably true

sorry OP!

 

[NuMD97]

Unless things change in this year's Match, keep in mind that last year only 42% of AMGs matched in FM. What is a program to do, in order to not jeopardize patient care? Close? That's not truly realistic. This is the primary reason they look for other qualified physicians, specifically DO's and IMG's. It's just pragmatic....and realistic.

Good luck to all in the coming Match!

Nu

 

[medlaw06]

hmmm....considering docnik hasn't stood up for himself or explained himself AND neither does he have more than 10 posts, something tells me:


TROLL!!!!

 

[andwhat]

YES, which is why he is banned now for trolling... what a jerk.

 

[erichaj]

I can really see it clearly:

Attending: "Welcome Dr. docnik. I'm sure you'll make a fine family physician when you finish our program."

docnik: "Thank you Attending. I'm very glad I was admitted to this great, competitive program. I knew this was a great program because there are no IMGs or DOs in here."

Attending: "Uh...yeah. Anyway, I'll be your attending during your Internal Medicine rotation. Dr. Yanesh will be your attending in your next rotation."

docnik: "Excuse me? Dr. Yanesh? Isn't that the physician from Hopkins?"

Attending: "No. He's from India."

docnik: "Oh...Oh, well. At least I get to do this important rotation with you. Are you a US med school graduate?"

Attending: "Sure am"

docnik: "Really? Where?"

Attending: "Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine."

docnik: "Oh..."

{awkward silence}

Attending: "Very well then, let's start. Get me some coffee. Sugar and cream, please."

docnik: "Yes sir! Right away sir!"

{nurses giggle in the background}

That was great. I needed that laugh.

lol

 

[erichaj]

Lets think about this for a second.

Several years ago, Anesthesiology was one of the easiest residencies to get into. From what my anesthsiology friends tell me, there were many slots in some very top programs that were left open.

When there was a shortage of US grads trying to get in, they started to take many IMGs.

Interesting.

So, these top programs felt that they needed to fill their slots and felt that the IMG's were good enough to be trained to be good doctors.

It looks to me that the choice of IMG or US grad was made on an economic basis to fill the slots and they felt that as long as the candidate had passed the appropriate exams, they would make a good doctor.

I happen to know many FP's that are IMG's and US grads. They all seem to do fine.

I think if you have a choice of programs (some don't and will have to take whatever there is to reach their goal), you should try to see what your goals are in the future and pick a program that fits those goal the best.

I think it is a poor choice to pick a program based on number of IMG or DO.
There are many smart and excellent IMG, DO and US grads.

docnick, the way you are choosing to choose a program may not be very helpful. Chances are, the attending is an IMG.

By the way, it's interesting that a hospital will hire an IMG as an attending but won't hire them as a resident.

Just my thoughts.

good luck docnick.

 

[allendo]

The name of this thread made me think of someone saying they want to go to Mexico, but not be around any Mexicans! What travel agent sold ya that!

 

[raptor5]

From what I hear there are many excellent american communities in Mexico so problem solved.

 

[erichaj]

From what I hear there are many excellent american communities in Mexico so problem solved.

I'm sure that all those people that say americans are dinguses are talking about you.

 

[raptor5]

I'm sure that all those people that say americans are dinguses are talking about you.

Then you took my post the wrong way. It was meant to be a joke in response to people going to mexico w/o being around mexicans.

 

[corpsmanUP]

leaving the thread because I am not even applying FM any longer

 

[erichaj]

Raptor5, It just sounded bad. didn't mean to come down so hard.


corpsmanup, EM is competitive. But I would not say that it is a better life. Don't get too excited. You might want to consider plastics or othro if your looking for a better life.

EM has a huge burnout rate. And, if you like to follow your patients, forget it.

It's not like the tv show. I've worked in Emergency departments. It's not that great. But, to each his own.

Now, as far as board scores go. There has been many studies done to see if the score has any relevance to performance as a doctor once you finish medical school. The answer is no. It's great that you have good board scores. Now, work on being a good doctor.

That starts with being a good human being.

 

[sophiejane]

Now, as far as board scores go. There has been many studies done to see if the score has any relevance to performance as a doctor once you finish medical school. The answer is no. It's great that you have good board scores. Now, work on being a good doctor.

That starts with being a good human being.

well said.

I'm interested in the light that Corpsman saw and exactly what it illuminated for him....? Was it just that you felt your fantastic board scores and grades were being wasted on FM programs, or did you learn something about EM that you didn't know before? You have been a regular poster here and I've appreciated your perspective, so I'm curious as to the change of heart.

 

[lowbudget]

Well, to go along with what Erichaj is saying, I think there's a misperception that anyone can do FM. There's so much involved in FM that you have to be flexible and very well rounded to do it well and do it right. Sure, the reality may be that anyone can match/scramble into FM, but to do FM the way it should be done takes a particular person. So if you are not the FM-type, pick some other specialty, ****.

 

[Chief Resident]

There's little room to argue if competetive residencies have few (if any) DOs or FMGs. Do a web search of residency rosters and graduates from competetive residencies and you'll rarely (if ever) see non-U.S. medical (MD) grads.

 

[toxic-megacolon]

EM has a huge burnout rate. And, if you like to follow your patients, forget it.

Actually the burn out rate for EM-Residency trained MDs is not significantly higher than other fields. However, pediatricians, internists, family physicians who go into EM do have a very high burnout rate. There have been published studies looking at this since the late 70s when EM became its own field.

 

[Sainttpk]

Actually the burn out rate for EM-Residency trained MDs is not significantly higher than other fields. However, pediatricians, internists, family physicians who go into EM do have a very high burnout rate. There have been published studies looking at this since the late 70s when EM became its own field.

Why is there such a high burn out rate among EM docs? For those of you who choose FM over EM, what is it about FM that appeals to you?

T

 

[Jack Daniel]

Why is there such a high burn out rate among EM docs? For those of you who choose FM over EM, what is it about FM that appeals to you?

T

Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing some responses on this, too.

 

[corpsmanUP]

ducking out of this debate

 

[Gnash]

What is a troll? or trolling?

 

[andwhat]

Lets be serious. There are no competitive family medicine programs who are confident enough to discriminate against DO's or MD's. I applied to a bunch of FM programs all across the country, and got interviews at every single one. I cancelled most of them. I then changed my mind and applied to EM programs because I saw the light And I have received interviews at places that have been known to rarely if ever interview a DO. FM does not even skae a stick to the competitiveness of EM. Show me an allopathic FM program that does not interview DO's, and give me 5 days to come back with a notice that I have an interview there!! I'll pay the extra ERAS fee just to show anyone that there is no such thing as DO discrimination from FM programs. Its just about being at a certain level of competitiveness. Some programs have higher or lower minimum stats, and all you have to do it surpass that to get a look. Perhaps the original poster might have had a point if he had been applying to plastics or ortho. I pitty the poor fellow MD intern on my team that even begins to try and assume I am some ******. I'll be happy to unzip and compare........scores that is!!

I have good scores too, and opted for FP, thats a bit arrogant at the end there, I mean I respect what your saying, but bragging about yourself there is a bit uncool and uncalled for. And yes good FP programs do have cutoffs for certain criteria such as mine, which cleans the program up in my opinion. Dude I had alot of Anesthesiology and Surgery invites as well myself, opted to stay closer to home in a specialty that I like, I am a lowkey kind of person, and to disrespect FP in this manner isnt the coolest thing to say. What you are saying is the following "Yeah I have such and such interviews and I am a star, other specialties arent good enough for me" I just wonder about it sometimes kind of good in that sense that you are not in primary care, I would not want a physician with some attitude such as that.
I am not trying to change what you are saying or offend you as a person, just doesnt seem that correct is all.

 

[corpsmanUP]

Ducking out politely

 

[happy5]

that's an interesting metric to evaluate a program docnik....

curriculum

pay

time off and benefits

size of program

local scope of practice

quality ancillary staff

research

are just a few places where I would start.
as for you later comments that just shows a very narrow view of the world. Your attitude will be will be reflected by the people whom you consult ( who may very well be DOs or FMGs or god forbid both ) who consider you "just an FP", so perhaps you should start learning some humility.

sv ms 4

 

[andwhat]

My reply was to an arrogant original post and it may have come off a bit tacky. But look at what it was directed at. It was not meant to slam FM. I have been in family medicine for many more years than you Sir and I will always respect it. Read my last post if you question this fact. But thanks for calling me a star. Now I can sleep at night and stop crying myself to sleep. Boy how you have changed my outlook on life and forced me to question my entire future more closely! I am just playing with you dude, so relax. I respect that a smart guy like yourself went into FP. More need to do the same. I just may not be for me.

no hey its cool I totally understand, and FPs are respected well in the midwest, just doesnt seem so on the East Coast so much, such as NY, or maybe I am mistaken, just seems that way though. You know any specialty or job with a certain stress level can suck and can cause burn out, but just have to have a positive perspective on things, and then things fall into place - just saw far too many jerks in Surgery and Anesth, competitive gunners out to prove that the whole world they can control, thats just not me. There were others who were extremely nice though, but in general they were pricks, not necessarily the Anesthesiologists, some or very few of them, but the Surgeons mainly.

 

[MedicinePowder]

Programs that are strictly M.D. correlate with increased competitiveness for getting accepted. I personally feel that at the fourth year level of med school DO and MD students are at par; however, there still exist a stigma against DO students primarily because it's thought that getting into a DO school is considerably easier than getting into an MD school. In other words, the OP's post wasn't PC but nonetheless had a reasonable inquiry.

 

[sophiejane]

TCOM (state osteopathic medical school)has higher MCAT scores for incoming students than some of the state allopathic schools. Does that make it more or less competitive? It's no longer possible to make such blanket statements that DO schools are less selective than MD schools. You have to look at each school individually. Therefore, its equally flawed reasoning to assume that DO graduates are any less competitive than their MD counterparts, or that their presence in a residency program somehow tarnishes the reputation of that program.

It's the same type of thinking that racial segregation is based upon.

It's also ridiculous to make such "competitiveness" distinctions in family medicine, which is dominated by DOs in many regions of the US.

We are all going to be working together, hopefully for the ultimate good of our patients. The stigma--at least as it pertains to family medicine--appears to be primarily in the mind of the allopathic medical student, and few others. The end product is the same, and as corpsman pointed out, there now seems to be little or no correlation between "competitiveness" of a program and its DO or FMG: MD ratio.

Take Duke, for example--a highly competitive program historically. They seem to be having some major problems right now and it seems like not a good choice for residency at this point in time. Bet they've got lots of MDs, though.

Do you see my point? Making such decisions about your future and your training based on this ethereal notion of competitiveness is ludicrous. It's like chosing your life partner based on how many good-looking people they have dated previously. If that seems like a good plan to you, then go for it. I've had better results looking for substance, however.

By the way, MedicinePowder, your history suggests you are applying to anesthesia programs. Just curious how you have reliable firsthand info to share on the competitiveness of family medicine programs.

 

[SmittySC]

This topic has become a dead horse. I think its proabably time to get off.