FMGs applying for Ophtho

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Macugen

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Am hoping to start a thread for FMGs (those with visa issues and not) very serious about applying for Ophtho - I feel that the equation is a little different for us and the stats have generally been unfavorable. This thread could help us share info and see how we are doing. Please post your interviews, batch, etc or any other concern here and lets see if it helps all of us.

My situation: Applied to a good number of programs (Batch 2) in almost all states (except CA). Have only one interview so far and a LARGE number of rejections. Have got a reasonable number of Prelim positions. One question I had is - if I dont match into Ophtho this year, is it advisable to go ahead and do the Prelim year (Internship) and try again ?
 
> if I dont match into Ophtho this year, is it advisable to go ahead and
> do the Prelim year (Internship) and try again ?

Try to do a transitional year. Also, try to get yourself a research gig at a larger place with a moderately competitive residency. The only FMGs who seem to make it into ophtho these days are the ones who slave away for a year or two at the research-fellow level. If you have your TY finished, you have the advantage that you could jump in right away if a position opened up somewhere. Also, in some states, despite being a FMG you might be eligible for a medical license (which opens up some moonlighting opportunities).
 
Macugen said:
if I dont match into Ophtho this year, is it advisable to go ahead and do the Prelim year (Internship) and try again ?

Yes, move on and try again. I recommend doing a prelim year NOT a transitional year.

Good luck & thanks for posting on the forum!
 
My dad is a FMG and was chief resident in his ophthalmology residency! Don't give up hope 🙂
 
Andrew_Doan said:
Yes, move on and try again. I recommend doing a prelim year NOT a transitional year.

Good luck & thanks for posting on the forum!

Why a prelim and not a transitional year?
 
Try to do a transitional year. Also, try to get yourself a research gig at a larger place with a moderately competitive residency. The only FMGs who seem to make it into ophtho these days are the ones who slave away for a year or two at the research-fellow level. QUOTE]

Thankyou F W and Dr. Doan for the replies. I appreciate it.
 
Spitzko said:
Why a prelim and not a transitional year?


Transitional year = dead end if one fails to get into ophtho the second time.

Prelim year in either medicine or surgery gives the individual the opportunity to enter a categorical program in either medicine or surgery. A prelim year opens more doors.
 
> Transitional year = dead end if one fails to get into ophtho the second time.

I would dispute the claim that a TY is a dead end. On the contrary, because you haven't triggered the 'funding clock', you have more choices in residencies with a TY than a prelim medicine (only prelim surgery keeps all avenues open).

> My dad is a FMG and was chief resident in his ophthalmology residency!
> Don't give up hope

There was a slight slump in competitiveness of ophtho and other subspecialties in the 90s. At that time, FMGs could enter fields like neurosurg, radiology and ophtho with relative ease. Nowadays, competition from well qualified US graduates is intense. If you don't bring either research or a completed residency from overseas to the table, your chances are slim.
 
FMG here.
Finished in 03.
Boards and reearch for 2 years with 5 publications.
Applied last year. 2 interviews-did not match.
Got into prelim medicine (now ongoing)
Applied again. Counting 4 interviews and still hoping for more. Have another 2 weeks before I start crying.

Do prelim... medicine is fun and less work than surg or transitional (usually).
Will also get better LORs from staff at hospital you are working and doophthy elective at the area.

Try again aslong as you can.

D.
 
I graduated from a caribbean medical school in May and was able to match into ophtho with only half-a-dozen interviews... In addition, I am a Canadian and applied requesting a J1 visa. Regardless of what most, if not all, said, it is possible to match into ophtho as an IMG. Just ace the interviews...
 
Here goes my story:
FMG, Europe, started ophthalmology residency in Europe almost 2 years ago before I decided that an US residency may be better

Have about one year of US experience (mostly clinical)
3 great LORs from US faculty (ophtho)

Step I 258/99 Step II 252/99

Research: 1 pub Pathology, 1 pub ophtho, ARVO poster, 2 more ophtho papers submitted

Applied to 45 programs - so far I got 2 invitations, 7 rejections
Did not hear about interviewing or rejecting me from the rest.
I am afraid most programs will only contact those they select for an interview.
 
Spitzko said:
Here goes my story:
FMG, Europe, started ophthalmology residency in Europe almost 2 years ago before I decided that an US residency may be better

Goodness, which European country if you don't mind me asking.
What made you want to leave?
 
Spitzko said:
Applied to 45 programs - so far I got 2 invitations, 7 rejections
Did not hear about interviewing or rejecting me from the rest.
I am afraid most programs will only contact those they select for an interview.

Start calling. Most won't tell you til late in the season that you got rejected.
 
sjkpark said:
Goodness, which European country if you don't mind me asking.
What made you want to leave?

Well, I am in a good academic program in Central/Western Europe (Germany).
I am not desperate to leave at all.
I have never regretted to go into ophthalmology. But as a medical student I had the opportunity to see US programs and I think the structure and quality of training are better.
So I decided to try to get into an US program. Although I recently found out that the salary of an average US resident is about 25% lower than in my home country. In addition, the costs of living in the US are higher than in Europe - so you really earn little as a resident in the US - I was really surprised. Furthermore, US residents have less vacation and longer working hours.
But I think the quality of the training in the US outweighs all of that.
That's why I decided to try to get a spot in the USA

(Update: applied to 45 programs: 3 invitations, 11 rejections so far - so there still is hope).
 
Wow...it would appear that if you don't match this year with those credentials, unless you are completely socially inept, it would prove hopeless for most other IMGs. I knew ophtho was competitive, but goodness, it's making me think that it would be a waste to apply.
 
Spitzko said:
Well, I am in a good academic program in Central/Western Europe (Germany).
I am not desperate to leave at all.
I had the opportunity to see US programs and I think the structure and quality of training are better.
But I think the quality of the training in the US outweighs all of that.
That's why I decided to try to get a spot in the USA
From what I've heard talking with German and European ophthalmology residents is that, while BMW and Porsche are excellent German cars, German ophthalmology training is awful. If German ophthalmology made a car, it would be a Kia or a Trabant (joke of a car made in the DDR)

It is easy, according to them, to finish a residency having done 15-25 cataract surgeries or less! Even the worse US program does much more than that.

As a result, many graduate degenerate to doing only refractions and a few do surgery after working for someone and learning on the job.

Chances are if this German applicant gets interviewed and brags about the German residency, the interviewers will either know it's bragging or be fooled.
 
From what I've heard talking with German and European ophthalmology residents is that, while BMW and Porsche are excellent German cars, German ophthalmology training is awful. If German ophthalmology made a car, it would be a Kia or a Trabant (joke of a car made in the DDR)

Chances are if this German applicant gets interviewed and brags about the German residency, the interviewers will either know it's bragging or be fooled.[/QUOTE]

You are right on that. I am definitely not going to brag about this.
The surgical training (apart from lasers) is ridiculous in Germany - that is one aspect why I am seeking training in the US.
But you do get a good non-surgical education in Central Europe.
The surgical training in Germany, Switzerland and Austria often occurs after residency (as a kind of fellowship).
Still, there a great ophthalmic surgeons in Germany - but most of them did not get trained as a resident.
This is very strange if you consider how many famous ophthalmologists were from Germany, Austria and Switzerland - but that is history.
In respect to ophthalmology training the USA have the BMW - I am from the city were the BMW cars are made - and BMW knows how to train people.

How do you happen to know so much about the German system?
 
The ones who do surgery are actually excellent. Because this is all they do.

The patients get worked up by residents or the non-operative medical ophthos in the community who refer them for the surgery only. As a result, the surgeon doesn't usually see many clinic patients and operates full time, 4-5 days per week.
 
Hello all.

I am a medical student from Pakistan. I want to apply to optho, but i'm looking to start an internal med residency by 2008, and then applying during that year to an optho program (meaning i'll complete a year of internal med before i join the eye program--- if i get in). now, if i get an optho residency, well and good, but if i don't, will i be allowed to continue with my internal med residency at that same program?

anticipating your replies......
 
... and will this year in med help support my application to opthalmology? What can i do in this year to help it do so?
 
Starting an internal med residency will not hurt your chances to get into ophtho but I don't think it will help very much unless you are going to be doing the year at Mass General or some huge name program in IM (and even then it wouldn't help that much). If you only sign up for a prelim year then that means you are not guaranteed the possibility to go on in the program. If you match into a categorical (ie 3 years) program, which would be a bad idea, if you really want to go into ophtho then you could go on if you don't match. To be very honest with you, you have your work cut out for you being an FMG trying to come to the US for ophtho. I think to be competetive you should come here this year (ie July 2006) and do research for a year at an ophthalmology program, apply for ophtho the next year (Fall 2007) while applying for your prelim year in IM and ophtho at the same time. Then you would start your IM year in July 2008 and ophtho in July 2009. If everything works out for the best. I think your chances of getting a US residency without any US research are going to be very slim even if you do very well on the boards. Hope this helps and good luck.
 
... fine. But suppose i get into a categorical program for internal med (not all THAT hard), and in that program find contacts within the optho department, hopefully do some research with them, that should help in my future application (especially in that eye program), right? i might even do 2 years of IM. BUT, suppose i do not match in eye both times, will i still advance in my IM residency in that program normally? i mean, if i do not match in eye end of my first year in IM, will i be able to continue as an R2 in the same program?
 
I completly agree with the previous response from Ophthal 24

I think doing ophthalmology research will carry more weight and you will be known by more people in the ophthalmology area than doing internal medicine which will only give you limited experience in ophthalmology and only in one program. Doing a year of research at a "Big" name place and writing some papers with good scores and letters is the most effective combination in my experience. The international ophthalmology blog will give you some ideas on the kind of opportunities that are avaiable for an international ophthalmologist in the US. You may visit it at

http://www.medrounds.org/international-ophthalmology/2006/04/table-of-contents.html

Hope this helps
 
Just a question. I'm 35 years old. I finished my ophthalmology residency 6 years ago, in my native country. (Did tonnes of surgery, phaco, extracaps, trabs, a few retina surgery) Even taught US ophthalmology residents when they go on missions here in our country. Also trained as a retinal fellow in my home institution for 2 years, (we did cutting edge surgery, BIOM, lots of RD's, diabetics, membranes, heavy liquids, silicone oil) then did another year as a clinical fellow in University of Toronto. Reason for doing another fellowship is that you really don't get enough respect from your peers until you've done a fellowship outside, even if you did a lot of surgeries during my first fellowship. Toronto was an excellent year, really helped refining my techniques. Came home 2 years ago.

Now, what are my chances of getting a residency in the US. Took my USMLE way back 1997, scores are quite good, but I couldn't get in a US retina fellowship because of the need for full state licensure for billings.

I'm asking because I feel my country is really going down politically. I practice purely retina, and I average 4-6 surgical cases/week, see around enough patients to keep me busy. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks
 
Does a prelim year (med) help in applying to eye? How can one make himself a strong candidate in that year?

also, suppose one matches into a categorical IM program. if he then starts that program, can he after a year go directly to a PGY-2 placement in eye (if he matches into an eye program after that year of course? can you even leave a categorical IM program before the 3 years are up??

and thank you for your earlier help. but i really don't want to be getting into a research gig with no guarantee that i'll get an optho placement by the time the research stint ends.
 
Hashmi said:
Does a prelim year (med) help in applying to eye? How can one make himself a strong candidate in that year?

also, suppose one matches into a categorical IM program. if he then starts that program, can he after a year go directly to a PGY-2 placement in eye (if he matches into an eye program after that year of course? can you even leave a categorical IM program before the 3 years are up??

and thank you for your earlier help. but i really don't want to be getting into a research gig with no guarantee that i'll get an optho placement by the time the research stint ends.

A Prelim year is unlikely to help you at all. I have matched into ophtho and am starting my prelim in July. I am only expecting to be used as cheap labor. I will be admitting patients all hours of the night on call q4 for over 6 months. This is not the ideal way to get to know people in ophtho. Generally faculty members in ophtho ONLY know of other faculty members in ophtho and even then they usually only know of the big names (like chairs, PDs, and big names in research at major institutions like Wilmer, Wills, Bascom Palmer, UCLA, etc.) I think that you are wasting more of your time doing the prelim year and applying for ophtho than if you do the year of research.
Actually, to be brutally honest since it sounds like you aren't quite ready to commit to the research year because of fear that you may not land a spot, I would recommend that before you do anything take USMLE Step I if you have not already done so. I am only saying this, because if you don't do well on this you will probably have trouble getting interviews even with the year of research. The average score of matched applicants is 230. It is sad to say this but to be competetive for ophtho as a foreign grad try to get at least a few points higher than this. I think even if you only get a 230 if you make the right contacts while doing research here you can land a spot. However, if you get less than a 220, then it may not be worth doing the year of research at all.
To answer your question on the categorical position, it will really depend on your IM program, I think they might be willing to let you drop out if they know that you love eye and won't be happy continuing on, however when you sign up for the match you are basically signing a contract to be with them for three years, and your program may be VERY angry that you are quitting after the first year. However, at my home program a guy was basically thrown out of his family practice residency in December of his first year largely because he was taking time off to interview for general surgery (they were also upset that he was trying to leave so you may lose your categorical posiiton anyway , because the IM program would almost rather fire you and get a jump on looking for a new resident). You won't be getting time off to be interviewing for ophtho while participating in a residency, this is another plus to the research year approach you will probably be just continuing your research during interview season and people won't mind that you are gone. Your IM program will be really upset when you are gone during the admission heavy cold months in the states. (Nobody wants to round on all of your pneumonias while you are flying down to sunny Florida)
I hope this advice helps, I know some of it is hard to accept, but it hurts me more when people find all this stuff out a few years later and wish they never even signed up for their categorical medicine program. Selling yourself short like that isn't fair to you or your patients (who always hope to have a doctor that is doing what he loves).
 
Hello
Your credentials are really impressive. I think your chances are good especially if you do not have a visa issue. Doing a year of research at a "Big" name place would really boost your application. I think the best combination is good scores, experience, peer reviewed papers and good american letters in my experience. The international ophthalmology blog will give you some ideas on the kind of opportunities that are avaiable for an international ophthalmologist in the US. You may visit it at

http://www.medrounds.org/international-ophthalmology/2006/04/table-of-contents.html

Hope this helps
 
Hi guys, i am currently doing ophthal residency in india and wish to do fellowship training in germany. Could any one help me understand the process to get fellowship position there.
 
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