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FMGs without a spot

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Rheumella

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I have two FMG acquaintances who did not match and did not scramble successfully. From what I understand they both want to eventually practice in their birth countries (Lebanon and India). Both have families and relationships back home.

I don't understand why they want to train in the US. Are there minimal training opportunities in India and Lebanon? Why is it desirable to train in the United States if one wants to eventually practice elsewhere?

Thanks for any insight.
 

oreosandsake

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very very limited residency spots.

according to some of the IMG friends I have from India, as hard as it is to get a spot in the USA, it is easier than trying to get one in India.

it also holds more prestige
 

Rheumella

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Ah! Thanks! I tried to find stats about residencies abroad but didn't have much luck.
 

turundu

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In my country we have to pay for residency training (close to medical school tuition), there are not research opportunities and a couple of academic centers. On top of that, there are barely fellows available.

I know it's quite difficult to understand for some of you, but we come here looking for opportunities that can't be found in our home countries. Most of us, wish to return to improve not only patient care but to promote science and technology through the establishment of academic institutions.

The match is a job offer like any other, regardless of nationality the better fitted/prepared should get the spot, IMO.
 

kcin

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In my country we have to pay for residency training (close to medical school tuition), there are not research opportunities and a couple of academic centers. On top of that, there are barely fellows available.

I know it's quite difficult to understand for some of you, but we come here looking for opportunities that can't be found in our home countries. Most of us, wish to return to improve not only patient care but to promote science and technology through the establishment of academic institutions.

The match is a job offer like any other, regardless of nationality the better fitted/prepared should get the spot, IMO.

This makes me glad residents get worked like dogs. At least US taxpayers are getting some work out of you guys before you take your education and run.
 

Buzz Me

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The match is a job offer like any other, regardless of nationality the better fitted/prepared should get the spot, IMO.

I think what upsets many people is that federal government money (via taxpayers) helps fund these residency spots. Not trying to get into a whole "AMG vs. FMG" debate here, I'm just pointing out that's one of the reasons people feel that AMGs deserve priority.

It's a difficult issue.
 

TruthMD

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This makes me glad residents get worked like dogs. At least US taxpayers are getting some work out of you guys before you take your education and run.


Wow ignorant much!!! You brain is so small that you simply can't understand how much you need smart foreigners to come to this country and help advance technology.

BTW, even citizens get worked like dogs during residency.

PS. In India residents have to pay a "donation" and on top of that work and live in the hospital. No 80hr cap.
 
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TruthMD

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I think what upsets many people is that federal government money (via taxpayers) helps fund these residency spots. Not trying to get into a whole "AMG vs. FMG" debate here, I'm just pointing out that's one of the reasons people feel that AMGs deserve priority.

It's a difficult issue.

AMG do get first pick. Most IMGs go to hospital spots that even our crappiest med school graduates don't want to go to.

We get your tax money's worth. You can calculate it. 45k/52 weeks/ 80hrs per week. Then on top of that they have to go work in undeserved area for 3 years to get a waver from being deported to their country.

So would you rather a smart foreign physician treat you or someone who failed steps and barely passed medical school treat you.
 

netdevil

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I am an FMG and would endorse many of my FMG friends that training in US exposes one to a system of protocolised education, technology and above all world class standard of patient care..

But I beg to differ on the point of learning and migrating back to your home country as this effects the economy of that nation cos its the tax paid by the citizens which is utilized in medical education.

And why is it necessary to do residency in US to gain experience, one can always do a fellowship and return..
 

turundu

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Once we get here, we start paying taxes like anybody else (~37% in MA, for example). I understand the reasoning about giving priority to AMGs but again, most of you don't want to end up in sub-par residency programs where a lot of IMGs will.

Unfortunately to be eligible for an accredited fellowship, one has to be licensed/board eligible in the U.S.; in other words you will have to repeat your residency training here. Why do you think someone will be willing to do it again?

Taking my skills back will not only benefit my country, but generate a lot of scientific/academic collaborations hosted in the U.S. (like I have until today). I'm quite surprised that you keep basing your entire argument on the "US Taxpayer money" issue without looking at the current globalization trend.


I am an FMG and would endorse many of my FMG friends that training in US exposes one to a system of protocolised education, technology and above all world class standard of patient care..

But I beg to differ on the point of learning and migrating back to your home country as this effects the economy of that nation cos its the tax paid by the citizens which is utilized in medical education.

And why is it necessary to do residency in US to gain experience, one can always do a fellowship and return..
 
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benjee

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Once we get here, we start paying taxes like anybody else (~37% in MA, for example). I understand the reasoning about giving priority to AMGs but again, most of you don't want to end up in sub-par residency programs where a lot of IMGs will.

Unfortunately to be eligible for an accredited fellowship, one has to be licensed/board eligible in the U.S.; in other words you will have to repeat your residency training here. Why do you think someone will be willing to do it again?

Taking my skills back will not only benefit my country, but generate a lot of scientific/academic collaborations hosted in the U.S. (like I have until today). I'm quite surprised that you keep basing your entire argument on the "US Taxpayer money" issue without looking at the current globalization trend.
I don't buy/believe that you will take your skill back to your country because besides the skills, it also takes advanced technology too which requires incorporation from your government who can provide more funding eg in purchasing advanced machines..etc. If you want to help your own country, you should make a petition to your government to send you over here to learn particular skills so that way,it makes sure your skills can benefit your country afterwards.
 
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turundu

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Yes, you're right. It's up to your leadership skills to start making policy changes in order to promote science and technology, which eventually will benefit your home country's development.

I along other fellow MDs/PhDs have been fortunate enough to find a niche that encourages our initiatives, so far we've been quite successful. Hopefully, our government will start applying our expertise in the near future.

As I said, we're not hoping on purchasing the "advanced machines", rather to produce that technology.

When I made the decision to come to the U.S., I did it acknowledging the lack of preparation on craniofacial surgery in my country. My government don't sponsor medical doctors interested in postgraduate training overseas, hence I had to work my [email protected]#$ off for 3 years in order to raise funds to join a lab in HMS.

I understand your point, but I think you guys have to put yourselves in our shoes. I don't think anyone has the final answer, but at least value all what we've gone through. You were born in a country full of opportunities because your parents migrated from their home countries some time ago. What's wrong with having internationals helping advancing science and technology or filling the spots where nobody else wants to go?
 
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benjee

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Yes, you're right. It's up to your leadership skills to start making policy changes in order to promote science and technology, which eventually will benefit your home country's development.

I along other fellow MDs/PhDs have been fortunate enough to find a niche that encourages our initiatives, so far we've been quite successful. Hopefully, our government will start applying our expertise in the near future.

As I said, we're not hoping on purchasing the "advanced machines", rather to produce that technology.

When I made the decision to come to the U.S., I did it acknowledging the lack of preparation on craniofacial surgery in my country. My government don't sponsor medical doctors interested in postgraduate training overseas, hence I had to work my [email protected]#$ off for 3 years in order to raise funds to join a lab in HMS.

I understand your point, but I think you guys have to put yourselves in our shoes. I don't think anyone has the final answer, but at least value all what we've gone through. You were born in a country full of opportunities because your parents migrated from their home countries some time ago. What's wrong with having internationals helping advancing science and technology or filling the spots where nobody else wants to go?

actually, if you are interested in particular area of skills, you then don't need to waste your time to start all over the basic training eg residency..etc, i assume you already have your training back home. All you need is to search on any continue education with practical training in those aspects and be here as a visitor scholar .
 

kcin

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Wow ignorant much!!! You brain is so small that you simply can't understand how much you need smart foreigners to come to this country and help advance technology.

BTW, even citizens get worked like dogs during residency.

PS. In India residents have to pay a "donation" and on top of that work and live in the hospital. No 80hr cap.

If we have qualified AMGs going unmatched, then no, we don't necessarily need "smart foreigners" coming here to leech off of tax payers. I also am aware that all residents are worked like dogs. If you worked on your reading comprehension skills you would note that I made no distinction between FMG and AMG residents.
 

smq123

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If we could get back to the original topic, and not wish diarrhea on other posters (what does that even mean??), that'd be great.
 

McGillGrad

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If we could get back to the original topic, and not wish diarrhea on other posters (what does that even mean??), that'd be great.

:claps::laugh::laugh:

Literal lol...!
 

netdevil

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Once we get here, we start paying taxes like anybody else (~37% in MA, for example). I understand the reasoning about giving priority to AMGs but again, most of you don't want to end up in sub-par residency programs where a lot of IMGs will.

Unfortunately to be eligible for an accredited fellowship, one has to be licensed/board eligible in the U.S.; in other words you will have to repeat your residency training here. Why do you think someone will be willing to do it again?

Taking my skills back will not only benefit my country, but generate a lot of scientific/academic collaborations hosted in the U.S. (like I have until today). I'm quite surprised that you keep basing your entire argument on the "US Taxpayer money" issue without looking at the current globalization trend.

Yes you are right upto some extent that going back may help in improving healthcare scenario in your home country but how many do return and out of those who return how many do use their foreign education for improvement of the system and not as a bargaining chip for better contracts at institutes.

I have never seen any anyone who has returned from US and working in a Govt or a teaching institute...
 

ikilledfred

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So would you rather a smart foreign physician treat you or someone who failed steps and barely passed medical school treat you.

This is even more ignorant than the comment above which you site for its ignorance. It does nothing to advance your argument and actually detracts from it.

Now this would be the part where, like you and the other guy, I could go ahead and insert a witty pun making an over-generalization regarding the negative aspects of FMGs based upon my own observational experiences, but as you have demonstrated, it would be counterproductive to my argument.

Besides, I'd rather have a physician who first practices good personal hygiene (ok, couldn't resist!!:laugh:)
 
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The are multiple issues at play here:

There was a time not long ago when the US needed Foreign doctors (both FMG and IMG) to complete the complement of residents this country needed. However, US schools responded by increasing enrollment and new medical schools being formed. The question now arises as to whether we should allow FMG/IMG into the system now. I mean if we are giving out visas based on need and there isn't a need something seems wrong. While some may argue that the spots many FMG/IMG take are less desirable, I think soon enough AMGs will have to look at those positions as well.
At some point, I know someone has done the math but I dont remember exactly, the number of AMG graduates=number of match spots at which point the match should be closed off to FMG/IMG in my opinion. First, there is no reciprocation in training meaning its highly unlikely that an AMG would want to go to India, the Caribbean, etc. to get training and if for some reason they did, it would be extremely difficult. At some point we need to protect our own. As for Caribbean grads, if you couldn't get into an American/Canadian med school (have reciprocity), you really shouldn't expect open access to the match. Ideally pre-matches would be eliminated and the 1st match would be for AMG's only, followed by an AMG scramble with the remaining seats open to IMG/FMG applicants. This would protect the AMGs for who the match was designed.
 

Doctor4Life1769

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bless your heart, you're so kind

I'm sorry, while my heart goes out to them... it's still the USA. They should be fortunate that the US hasn't banned FMGs like UK did.

Plus, while the FMGs take spots that may be undesirable, they take quite a bit of desirable spots through the pre-match. Some top notch programs pre-match FMGs all the time, limiting the # of spots available to AMGs in the match. We worked hard, we deserve to have our chances first, not you guys who then plan to return to your home country "better trained."
 
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turquoiseblue

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I dont see why some people say US citizen IMG's should be treated like they're less than a non-US citizen FMG..especially caribbean grads. That just boggles my mind. They speak great english, are mostly born in the US, and most want to stay in the US.
 

Law2Doc

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Once we get here, we start paying taxes like anybody else (~37% in MA, for example)....

It's not really an issue of taxpayer money in the direct sense. It's an issue of the government setting and funding the number of residency spots based on anticipated local needs, which gets totally thwarted when people leave the country and don't stay to meet the needs of the locale. For example, lets say a region of the country is drastically underserved, so the local politicians use their clout and get a few more funded residency spots for some of the hospitals in that region in the specialties needed. If the person who fills that residency finishes and then leaves the country the region stays underserved and the region is worse off because they just spent 6 digits a year training someone who was not part of the solution. Sure they provided a short term service during their residency, but the real value is having someone trained stay in the country, because that's when they are just getting valuable. You aren't as valuable as a resident, you are often a wash.

Residency is thus very different than, say, education. For education, you charge someone money to teach them, and so if they leave after they finish school, at least you got whatever you felt was fair value for their education in the form of tuition. And you can always add another spot if Y% of the people you teach up and leave each year. Residency is the opposite. The government and hospitals fund these spots, and the person taking the spot gets a salary, and the spots are limited to determined need. It's not possible to simply add a spot because someone isn't staying in the US. So someone who takes this spot not only provides a service and gets a salary, but really also becomes part of the "mission" to provide needed service to the community in that specialty post-residency. The specialty has already determined it NEEDS X more doctors to stay in the US and practice in that specialty. So anyone planning to leave means the patients of that specialty got shortchanged -- the demand is not met. And when the government and government funded institutions, whose job it is to ensure that their constituents get the medical care needed in the various communities, pull the purse strings, it is very reasonable that they choose to focus on people most likely to stay.

As mentioned, foreign medical grads provided a great interval service for a while, as US med schools didn't meet US residency needs. This has been more or less corrected. It has nothing to do with better or worse applicants, just the notion that US med schools should be meeting US needs, and that citizens and PERMANENT residents should be filling these spots, because this is who is going to stay on. I expect the fall off of FMGs getting spots to continue to be fairly drastic from here on out, and expect the weaker offshore schools that focus on US residencies to have to close their doors in the not too distant future.
 

notdeadyet

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Law2Doc- Insightful post, but it seems to hinge on the idea that IMGs who come to the U.S. for residency return home. From what I've seen, that is the small minority. Most settle in the U.S.
 

notdeadyet

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I always find these threads interesting. Anytime an FMG posts something about looking for a spot, you get loads of people jumping over them essentially saying, "go home, don't take my spot."

If you had allopaths doing this to every osteopath scrambling for an allo residency slot, there'd be tears and screaming. But it's okay to apply to foreigners.
 

turundu

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You're making valid points, however:

.....For example, lets say a region of the country is drastically underserved, so the local politicians use their clout and get a few more funded residency spots for some of the hospitals in that region in the specialties needed. If the person who fills that residency finishes and then leaves the country the region stays underserved and the region is worse off because they just spent 6 digits a year training someone who was not part of the solution. ...

Regardless of immigration status, underserved regions have a problem retaining their doctors. In fact, there's a program in place to fill these vacancies with international physicians offering permanent residency/tax breaks as long as they stay in rural areas for >5 years.

....Residency is thus very different than, say, education. For education, you charge someone money to teach them, and so if they leave after they finish school, at least you got whatever you felt was fair value for their education in the form of tuition. And you can always add another spot if Y% of the people you teach up and leave each year. Residency is the opposite. The government and hospitals fund these spots, and the person taking the spot gets a salary, and the spots are limited to determined need. It's not possible to simply add a spot because someone isn't staying in the US. So someone who takes this spot not only provides a service and gets a salary, but really also becomes part of the "mission" to provide needed service to the community in that specialty post-residency. The specialty has already determined it NEEDS X more doctors to stay in the US and practice in that specialty. So anyone planning to leave means the patients of that specialty got shortchanged -- the demand is not met. And when the government and government funded institutions, whose job it is to ensure that their constituents get the medical care needed in the various communities, pull the purse strings, it is very reasonable that they choose to focus on people most likely to stay....

If this is taken to the extreme (many trained residents in the U.S. leaving the country), YES! You're totally right, this would be a big problem. I find hard to believe that the U.S. government doesn't account for people stopping practicing for various reasons (i.e. sickness, death, raising a family, even winning the lottery and retiring early...).

My point is: We're in a globalized world, and talent from other countries will benefit the system. I'm NOT saying that we should have priority over AMGs, but we should have the opportunity to learn and contribute to the system.

....As mentioned, foreign medical grads provided a great interval service for a while, as US med schools didn't meet US residency needs. This has been more or less corrected. It has nothing to do with better or worse applicants, just the notion that US med schools should be meeting US needs, and that citizens and PERMANENT residents should be filling these spots, because this is who is going to stay on. I expect the fall off of FMGs getting spots to continue to be fairly drastic from here on out, and expect the weaker offshore schools that focus on US residencies to have to close their doors in the not too distant future....

For many years, one of the biggest strengths of this country was the drawn talent from all over the world (entrepreneurs during the industrial revolution, researchers during the I/II world war, visiting scholars who will eventually make huge scientific contributions --check your Drs./Professors' last name, I can guarantee you some are from overseas).

Recent chances in the immigration policies have scared away many talented individuals, and the side effect is that offshore schools will become stronger than ever.

What you're proposing is to protect AMGs by "Regulations". But you'll missing some of the brightest individuals in the planet, what do people prefer? The "best American doctor" or the "best doctor" they can have?

....citizens and PERMANENT residents should be filling these spots....

I'm a permanent resident of the U.S. as an "alien" of extraordinary ability. My work has benefited the U.S. citizens and even the government has seen my value. BTW, this is the case for a large number of FMGs.
 

Law2Doc

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Law2Doc- Insightful post, but it seems to hinge on the idea that IMGs who come to the U.S. for residency return home. From what I've seen, that is the small minority. Most settle in the U.S.

The premise of this thread was an OP who knew two IMGs whose goal was to train here and return home.
 

Law2Doc

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You're making valid points, however:



Regardless of immigration status, underserved regions have a problem retaining their doctors. In fact, there's a program in place to fill these vacancies with international physicians offering permanent residency/tax breaks as long as they stay in rural areas for >5 years.



If this is taken to the extreme (many trained residents in the U.S. leaving the country), YES! You're totally right, this would be a big problem. I find hard to believe that the U.S. government doesn't account for people stopping practicing for various reasons (i.e. sickness, death, raising a family, even winning the lottery and retiring early...).

My point is: We're in a globalized world, and talent from other countries will benefit the system. I'm NOT saying that we should have priority over AMGs, but we should have the opportunity to learn and contribute to the system.



For many years, one of the biggest strengths of this country was the drawn talent from all over the world (entrepreneurs during the industrial revolution, researchers during the I/II world war, visiting scholars who will eventually make huge scientific contributions --check your Drs./Professors' last name, I can guarantee you some are from overseas).

Recent chances in the immigration policies have scared away many talented individuals, and the side effect is that offshore schools will become stronger than ever.

What you're proposing is to protect AMGs by "Regulations". But you'll missing some of the brightest individuals in the planet, what do people prefer? The "best American doctor" or the "best doctor" they can have?



I'm a permanent resident of the U.S. as an "alien" of extraordinary ability. My work has benefited the U.S. citizens and even the government has seen my value. BTW, this is the case for a large number of FMGs.

Permanent resident is a legal term. It basically means a green card. It has nothing to do with extraordinary ability. It means you are not here on a temporary, visa basis.

This thread was started with the premise that the OP knew two IMGs who sought to train here and then return to their country of origin. Thus it is irrelevant whether they are the "best doctor" -- they are not planning to stay here once they become clinically useful. So yes, I'd rather have a US citizen mediocre student who barely passed his Steps in those residency slots.

Residency slots are allocated based on anticipated healthcare demand for trained physicians (not residents). So it is contemplated that everyone we give a residency slot to is going to practice here. If someone is less likely to practice here, then they should be less likely to get a spot. Which is why it's appropriate for citizens and permanent residents to get first dibs. They aren't going anywhere. The IMGs the OP described are. So they should be absolutely last on line for the spots. That's really all there is to it. I have no problem with folks who immigrate here on a permanent basis ending up with residency slots. But it is problematic when people come here on very temporary visa status, already with plans to leave post-training, and take residency slots that have been allocated and funded because of US patient need for those physicians once they complete residency. In such case I don't think anyone cares if this is the smartest and best doctor in the world, he doesn't get the spot because he's not going to fulfill what the residency slot was intended.
 

Law2Doc

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Recent chances in the immigration policies have scared away many talented individuals, and the side effect is that offshore schools will become stronger than ever. ...

Assuming you are talking about caribbean schools here, if their students aren't getting into US residencies post graduation, these offshore schools will fold in droves. That was actually the unwritten intention behind pushing for US med school seats to match residency slots over the last few years. Get enough US seats for the better qualified US students currently going to offshore schools, and effectively make those schools not a viable option. No IMG is going to shell out money to go to an offshore school with no position at the other end, no matter how talented they are. No residency potential, no offshore school.
 

McGillGrad

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Assuming you are talking about caribbean schools here, if their students aren't getting into US residencies post graduation, these offshore schools will fold in droves. That was actually the unwritten intention behind pushing for US med school seats to match residency slots over the last few years. Get enough US seats for the better qualified US students currently going to offshore schools, and effectively make those schools not a viable option. No IMG is going to shell out money to go to an offshore school with no position at the other end, no matter how talented they are. No residency potential, no offshore school.

The increase in the seats really does not hurt the competitive US-IMGs who go offshore because they should theoretically get into US schools. The ones who will lose out are those who look poor on paper but perform well in med school.

All in all, there are still 4000-5000 more spots than US allopathic graduates. It will take 5-9 more years to fill all spots with AMGs.
 

turquoiseblue

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The increase in the seats really does not hurt the competitive US-IMGs who go offshore because they should theoretically get into US schools. The ones who will lose out are those who look poor on paper but perform well in med school.

All in all, there are still 4000-5000 more spots than US allopathic graduates. It will take 5-9 more years to fill all spots with AMGs.

Why can't I get a spot if there are so many. It's sad my career seems to be absolutely over. I'm not even going to apply anymore because match or scramble won't take me and I extremely rarely get interviews after being in previous residencies. I am a born US citizen too, ECFMG certified and even passed step 3. I see so many people on visas getting in over me and it's unreal, even they think it is unreal, but nonetheless, they're sitting pretty and happy. I think they just want fresh grads, but that is a bit unfair. Maybe they should make a waiting list so people getting older grad dates don't go unnoticed and rot and wither away residency-less.
 
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McGillGrad

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Why can't I get a spot if there are so many. It's sad my career seems to be absolutely over. I'm not even going to apply anymore because match or scramble won't take me and I extremely rarely get interviews after being in previous residencies. I am a born US citizen too, ECFMG certified and even passed step 3. I see so many people on visas getting in over me and it's unreal, even they think it is unreal, but nonetheless, they're sitting pretty and happy. I think they just want fresh grads, but that is a bit unfair. Maybe they should make a waiting list so people getting older grad dates don't go unnoticed and rot and wither away residency-less.

Unfortunately, they see that you earned two previous residencies and left them. They are acting logically.
 

turquoiseblue

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Unfortunately, they see that you earned two previous residencies and left them. They are acting logically.

No they are not. i didn't leave them by choice. They were really unfair and the system is messed up enough to allow for any of this to happen. My second residency i had to leave due to illness, why won't they let me finish the rest and say it is just due to the fact they won't accommodate and that i had no problems in the program.

i hope it happens to you then you'll know what i am talking about.
 
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Colbert

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No they are not. i didn't leave them by choice. They were really unfair and the system is messed up enough to allow for any of this to happen. My second residency i had to leave due to illness, why won't they let me finish the rest and say it is just due to the fact they won't accommodate and that i had no problems in the program.

i hope it happens to you then you'll know what i am talking about.

What about your first one?

Do you have any funding left after leaving two residency programs?

Also, that's pretty terrible of you to wish bad things upon other people.
 

turquoiseblue

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What about your first one?

Do you have any funding left after leaving two residency programs?

Also, that's pretty terrible of you to wish bad things upon other people.

I left the first one for personal reasons and wrote that on the paper. but really i left before they could do more damage to me. i was already on probation but told i was doing well. the program was malignant and i was scared of what further damage they had left to do to me, so i left. i didn't want to go on trial. i could have won though, but there was no telling with how unfair everything was.

i know it is terrible but you don't know how it is to be treated the way i am treated by cocky people on this site, so i thought it was appropriate to say that to that type of person. i think it was well deserved.
 

SouthernSurgeon

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I left the first one for personal reasons and wrote that on the paper. but really i left before they could do more damage to me. i was already on probation but told i was doing well. the program was malignant and i was scared of what further damage they had left to do to me, so i left. i didn't want to go on trial. i could have won though, but there was no telling with how unfair everything was.

i know it is terrible but you don't know how it is to be treated the way i am treated by cocky people on this site, so i thought it was appropriate to say that to that type of person. i think it was well deserved.

The treatment you receive is largely due to the fact that you seem to turn every discussion of FMGs/scrambling/losing a spot into a discussion of your own personal woes, which have been talked about ad nauseum.

Your response to it (characterizing other posters as "attackers" and lashing out at them) is representative of the victim mindset and pathologic response mechanism which have contributed to your current circumstances.
 

mama

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I have two FMG acquaintances who did not match and did not scramble successfully. From what I understand they both want to eventually practice in their birth countries (Lebanon and India). Both have families and relationships back home.

I don't understand why they want to train in the US. Are there minimal training opportunities in India and Lebanon? Why is it desirable to train in the United States if one wants to eventually practice elsewhere?

Thanks for any insight.

As a matter of fact, the VAST majority of IMG's remain in the US. Those who go back either get tired of the immigration hurdles thrown at them even after residency/fellowship or just want to improve the healthcare system in third world countries. Did you know that there are AMG's who train in the US and settle in Europe, Australia, etc too? You should really meet more people and open your mind buddy before making generalized comments!
 

turquoiseblue

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The treatment you receive is largely due to the fact that you seem to turn every discussion of FMGs/scrambling/losing a spot into a discussion of your own personal woes, which have been talked about ad nauseum.

Your response to it (characterizing other posters as "attackers" and lashing out at them) is representative of the victim mindset and pathologic response mechanism which have contributed to your current circumstances.

I don't think that is true. it is moreso a superiority complex of some people, kind of like you, you've never said anything nice to me, just like to put me down. what you say is moreso a reflection of the way you see me yourself and you are projecting yourself by acting like that is who i am, but it is not who i am. i just had something happen to me and i know i was treated unfairly. i am a victim, not making it up. and i need help with my situation, and it is sad that among so many doctors, i rarely have gotten help just insults that i have to act like it never happened, but im getting tired of that.
 

mama

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I don't think that is true. it is moreso a superiority complex of some people, kind of like you, you've never said anything nice to me, just like to put me down. what you say is moreso a reflection of the way you see me yourself and you are projecting yourself by acting like that is who i am, but it is not who i am. i just had something happen to me and i know i was treated unfairly. i am a victim, not making it up. and i need help with my situation, and it is sad that among so many doctors, i rarely have gotten help just insults that i have to act like it never happened, but im getting tired of that.

You will not find professional help on an online forum! You left 2 residency programs, which is reason enough for most programs in the country to leave you out of their rank list or rank you really low.

You should meet with your Dean (although you have graduated already) to see if they can help in anyway. You might also want to see a shrink asap to help you get over your depression, etc
 

turquoiseblue

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I'm kind of glad i never made it because i don't want to be among the rude cutthroaty unhelpful doctors that this site reflects who have selfish cocky thoughts. not all of you but there are quite a few. you know who you are.;D
 

turquoiseblue

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i have a shrink..and why insult them by calling them shrinks....it's a psychiatrist.
and she doesn't help me with my residency problem either. everyon'e is selfish preoccupied with their own self. im sure she could care less about me too just wants my $.

oh and ur prehealth for God's sake! and McGill grad is a med student! i mean come on i need residents or actual doctors helping me. i don't think you have the authority to help me and shouldn't be giving out advice like that that you know so little about.
 
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turquoiseblue

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basically what many of you are saying is my career SHOULD be over. so as to why i hope it happens to each and every one of you just so you know exactly what you are saying to me.
 

smq123

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i have a shrink..and why insult them by calling them shrinks....it's a psychiatrist.
and she doesn't help me with my residency problem either. everyon'e is selfish preoccupied with their own self. im sure she could care less about me too just wants my $.

oh and ur prehealth for God's sake! and McGill grad is a med student! i mean come on i need residents or actual doctors helping me. i don't think you have the authority to help me and shouldn't be giving out advice like that that you know so little about.

basically what many of you are saying is my career SHOULD be over. so as to why i hope it happens to each and every one of you just so you know exactly what you are saying to me.

Both of these comments are kind of uncalled for.

If you don't like the advice you get on SDN, and you don't like what other posters have to say to you, then you don't have to continue to read SDN. It's as simple as just never looking at the site ever again. But lashing out is not productive, and not fair to the others who read this site.
 

turquoiseblue

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Both of these comments are kind of uncalled for.

If you don't like the advice you get on SDN, and you don't like what other posters have to say to you, then you don't have to continue to read SDN. It's as simple as just never looking at the site ever again. But lashing out is not productive, and not fair to the others who read this site.

i don't know why you are always in defense of everyone else. they're not uncalled for. i disagree. these people were saying insulting things and you are in favor of what they say to me.i think that's uncalled for.
 

drtinabina

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Honestly, the more you talk/type the more mentally unstable you appear to me and I'm sure most of the people who are reading this thread. It also makes it more and more evident even without knowing every detail about your present circumstances that the reason you left 2 residencies most likely had more to do with your own mental issues than the residencies. Get help. (Seriously, I mean that literally).
 

drtinabina

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And why would your psychiatrist help you with your residency problem. She/he didn't go to medical school and residency to work in an unemployment office. S(he) went to school to help people with their mental problems.
 

turquoiseblue

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And why would your psychiatrist help you with your residency problem. She/he didn't go to medical school and residency to work in an unemployment office. S(he) went to school to help people with their mental problems.

why won't anyone help me with my residency problem? not even my own brother would take time to help me with that like hooking me up or something like that. not even my dad. not even friends of the family who are doctors. i knokw a lot of doctors and not one of them cares in the least and puts themselves above any other. i would help someone in my shoes. i really would have. i dont know why no one would do that for me.

i know a guy who had a friend of his hook him up to get residency and he matched so easliy. why can't anyone hook me up like that? i just don't get it.
 

smq123

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Ok.

Here are a few thoughts.

1) This thread has gone far off topic. TurquoiseBlue, I would appreciate it if you didn't turn this thread (or this forum) into your personal soapbox on your difficulties in finding a residency. It appears that other posters feel similarly. If you are unable to do that, I will have to close this thread.

2) TurquoiseBlue - if you do not like what others say to you on SDN, your solutions are to talk about something else, stop posting on SDN, or just not visit SDN at all.

Now, either we return discussion to the original point, and stop this TurquoiseBlue-centric discussion, or the thread gets closed.

Thanks.
 
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