For anyone who's tired of hearing about how medicine isn't worth it

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sc1entific
  • Start date Start date
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
True. But anyone making serious cash in there 30s are working g their asses off in other industries as well. So whatever.

chipwhitley said:
Well there's a difference between the majority of jobs and medicine. Medicine sucks up your life pretty much entirely for about 8+ years to train you. And even after that, the demands on your time are pretty high compared to most jobs. It's not a job that you go home after work and forget about. Your ass is always on the line. You really need to have a lot of drive to do this profession because it's requires such a huge commitment. You can't just cruise through it like you can at most jobs. You can't just sit around at BS meetings and eat donuts and waste away the day. Medicine is a totally different ball game and people always forget that when they say it's a "golden ticket". Yeah, it's a golden ticket if you're ready to give it everything you've got and fight an uphill battle.
Click to expand...
 
WilliamofOckham said:
In light of the fact that there aren't really very many 9-5, 5-day-a-week, $150K+ jobs out there, medicine isn't really that bad if you're in the right specialty
Click to expand...

Yes, but this isn't limited to high paying specialties. I'd rather be in debt until I'm 40-45 and love what I do than have no debt and work a job I hate just for the money.

Dr.Smexy said:
More like 3 to 5? I don't think most people get paid to be in medical school for 4 years...
Click to expand...

WilliamofOckham said:
Oops, my mistake. Four of the 12.
Click to expand...

Realistically it's 4 of 8 more that we're paying for. Most people that have jobs paying over 35k go to at least 4 years of college, and a lot of those people will rack up some debt anyway. Imo, it's financially worth it to pay for 4 more years for the guarantee that I'll make at least 6 figures the rest of my working career. Could you do that in other fields? Sure, but the people creating their own startups or being their own bosses are also usually working as much, if not more than 50-60 hours per week to make those 6 figures.

chipwhitley said:
Well there's a difference between the majority of jobs and medicine. Medicine sucks up your life pretty much entirely for about 8+ years to train you. And even after that, the demands on your time are pretty high compared to most jobs. It's not a job that you go home after work and forget about. Your ass is always on the line. You really need to have a lot of drive to do this profession because it's requires such a huge commitment. You can't just cruise through it like you can at most jobs. You can't just sit around at BS meetings and eat donuts and waste away the day. Medicine is a totally different ball game and people always forget that when they say it's a "golden ticket". Yeah, it's a golden ticket if you're ready to give it everything you've got and fight an uphill battle.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's much more demanding for 8 years and then more demanding for most of the career, but most jobs also don't have the financial payouts of medicine, and if you enjoy the job then it's worth it. Yes, it's a huge commitment and requires a lot of drive. It's also got more high opportunity flexibility than most other fields as W19 pointed out, and in some fields like EM you can work 25-30ish hours/week and still clear 6 figures. I don't know any other fields other than maybe being a lawyer on retainer where you can make that kind of money.
 
Stagg737 said:
Yes, but this isn't limited to high paying specialties. I'd rather be in debt until I'm 40-45 and love what I do than have no debt and work a job I hate just for the money.





Realistically it's 4 of 8 more that we're paying for. Most people that have jobs paying over 35k go to at least 4 years of college, and a lot of those people will rack up some debt anyway. Imo, it's financially worth it to pay for 4 more years for the guarantee that I'll make at least 6 figures the rest of my working career. Could you do that in other fields? Sure, but the people creating their own startups or being their own bosses are also usually working as much, if not more than 50-60 hours per week to make those 6 figures.



Yes, it's much more demanding for 8 years and then more demanding for most of the career, but most jobs also don't have the financial payouts of medicine, and if you enjoy the job then it's worth it. Yes, it's a huge commitment and requires a lot of drive. It's also got more high opportunity flexibility than most other fields as W19 pointed out, and in some fields like EM you can work 25-30ish hours/week and still clear 6 figures. I don't know any other fields other than maybe being a lawyer on retainer where you can make that kind of money.
Click to expand...

Depending on how much debt you end up with following medical school you may end up paying for your own residency as interest outpaces your income during those residency years. Also, you're making a really strong case for PA school.

For the second bolded--I know this is off-topic--why is this not seen in general surgery? Why cant general surgery, for example, be a 3 year residency, followed by working whatever procedures you want to do, i.e. 25-30 hours/week worth of procedures. I bet this is going to seem like an incredibly naive series of questions, but anyway, lets hear it.
 
Depends on where you live. I have a lot of friends that work way shorter days than med students and make $150k plus. I did too prior to med school.

WilliamofOckham said:
In light of the fact that there aren't really very many 9-5, 5-day-a-week, $150K+ jobs out there, medicine isn't really that bad if you're in the right specialty
Click to expand...
 
mspeedwagon said:
Depends on where you live. I have a lot of friends that work way shorter days than med students and make $150k plus. I did too prior to med school.
Click to expand...

Do tell us where and what? I know you guys guys pulling that cash in Silicon Valley, but they went to MIT, CAL, STANFORD for engineering. Not everyone can do that.
 
I posted before about my income and the income in my close circle of friends.
- I made a little over $150k working 10 a.m. - 4 p.m. on most days in pharma (6 p.m. on a really, really hard day). I only have a bachelor's degree not in engineering or CS.
- Friends of mine work only market hours (9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.) in banking and easily makes over $200k a year. Again, only bachelor's degrees.
- As mentioned, I have friends at tech companies, that also work a standard 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. and pull over 200k. Most have bachelor's degrees in CS, but one actually dropped out of college to join facebook back when I was in undergrad (he's now a multi-millionaire).
- A friend works sales at Oracle. I'm not sure of his hours, but there is virtually no chance he works more than a 4o hour week. He works from home and goes to the occasional client meeting. Again, bachelor's degree with 200k+ salary base (plus he makes commissions).
- I have a friend that is a cop with the California Highway Patrol. Base salary is $100k for 40 hrs, plus significant overtime pay. The job also comes with a pension.
- I have a friend that was recently on Survivor that is an executive on Yahoo, again only holds a bachelor's degree. She said her work hours weren't too bad (interpret this how you will) and she made her first million at 25 (I don't know what her income is, but her million by 25 came primarily from salary: http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/yahoo-exec-survivor-first-million/).

Essentially, most high income jobs for those with a bachelor's degree are confined to banking, pharma, sales, tech. There are several other folks I know that earn 200k+ in various other fields, but they work more than 40 hrs, sometimes way, way more.

I should add becoming a doctor to me is more about passion because it's a ton of hours for not that much pay relative to what many already make working way, way less.


badasshairday said:
Do tell us where and what? I know you guys guys pulling that cash in Silicon Valley, but they went to MIT, CAL, STANFORD for engineering. Not everyone can do that.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Giovanotto said:
Depending on how much debt you end up with following medical school you may end up paying for your own residency as interest outpaces your income during those residency years. Also, you're making a really strong case for PA school.

For the second bolded--I know this is off-topic--why is this not seen in general surgery? Why cant general surgery, for example, be a 3 year residency, followed by working whatever procedures you want to do, i.e. 25-30 hours/week worth of procedures. I bet this is going to seem like an incredibly naive series of questions, but anyway, lets hear it.
Click to expand...

To the first part, true, but you'd have to have well over 400k in debt going into residency to end up with it being a wash with the interest. I'm also not sure how that's a strong argument for PA school. After undergrad they've got 2.5-3 more years of school, which can cost over 100k in tuition alone, and the average PA will make less than half of what the average physician will. I'd personally rather take on an extra 100-150k and be a physician than be a PA, even if that means it takes an extra year to start making money and 4-6 more years to start making the major money.

Honestly, not sure on the second point. If you're in an outpatient surgical group I would think it would be possible to do some part time work. I know one or 2 orthos that did that towards the end of their careers. As for restructuring residency, good luck with that. The reason it's feasible in EM is because it's largely shift work already. Other fields like FM or Psych can pull part time because having a private practice is still feasible, which is much more difficult in fields like surgery or anesthesia which require more advanced facilities and equipment. I'm sure there are other and better reasons as well, but that's all I've got.
 
mspeedwagon said:
I posted before about my income and the income in my close circle of friends.
- I made a little over $150k working 10 a.m. - 4 p.m. on most days in pharma (6 p.m. on a really, really hard day). I only have a bachelor's degree not in engineering or CS.
- Friends of mine work only market hours (9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.) in banking and easily make over $200k a year. Again, only bachelor's degrees.
- As mentioned, I have friends at tech companies, that also work a standard 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. and pull over 200k. Most have bachelor's degrees in CS, but one actually dropped out of college to join facebook back when I was in undergrad (he's now a multi-millionaire).
- A friend works sales at Oracle. I'm not sure of his hours, but there is virtually no chance he works more than a 4o hour week. He works from home and goes to the occasional client meeting. Again, bachelor's degree with 200k+ salary base (plus he makes commissions).
- I have a friend that is a cop with the California Highway Patrol. Base salary is $100k for 40 hrs, plus significant overtime pay. The job also comes with a pension.
- I have a friend that was recently on Survivor that is an executive on Yahoo, again only holds a bachelor's degree. She said her work hours weren't too bad (interpret this how you will) and she made her first million at 25 (I don't know what her income is, but her million by 25 came primarily from salary: http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/yahoo-exec-survivor-first-million/).

Essentially, most high income jobs for those with a bachelor's degree are confined to banking, pharma, sales, tech. There are several other folks I know that earn 200k+ in various other fields, but they work more than 40 hrs, sometimes way, way more.

I should add becoming a doctor to me is more about passion because it's a ton of hours for not that much pay relative to what many already make working way, way less.
Click to expand...
If that isn't a list of exceptions I don't know what is. I'm sorry, but I have plenty of friends with bachelors from well known schools in impacted states in engineering, finance, and econ and none of them are even close to breaking a six figure salary.

We understand that its possible, but it is far from the norm, whereas 150-200k as a physician is.
 
mspeedwagon said:
I posted before about my income and the income in my close circle of friends.
- I made a little over $150k working 10 a.m. - 4 p.m. on most days in pharma (6 p.m. on a really, really hard day). I only have a bachelor's degree not in engineering or CS.
- Friends of mine work only market hours (9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.) in banking and easily make over $200k a year. Again, only bachelor's degrees.
- As mentioned, I have friends at tech companies, that also work a standard 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. and pull over 200k. Most have bachelor's degrees in CS, but one actually dropped out of college to join facebook back when I was in undergrad (he's now a multi-millionaire).
- A friend works sales at Oracle. I'm not sure of his hours, but there is virtually no chance he works more than a 4o hour week. He works from home and goes to the occasional client meeting. Again, bachelor's degree with 200k+ salary base (plus he makes commissions).
- I have a friend that is a cop with the California Highway Patrol. Base salary is $100k for 40 hrs, plus significant overtime pay. The job also comes with a pension.
- I have a friend that was recently on Survivor that is an executive on Yahoo, again only holds a bachelor's degree. She said her work hours weren't too bad (interpret this how you will) and she made her first million at 25 (I don't know what her income is, but her million by 25 came primarily from salary: http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/yahoo-exec-survivor-first-million/).

Essentially, most high income jobs for those with a bachelor's degree are confined to banking, pharma, sales, tech. There are several other folks I know that earn 200k+ in various other fields, but they work more than 40 hrs, sometimes way, way more.

I should add becoming a doctor to me is more about passion because it's a ton of hours for not that much pay relative to what many already make working way, way less.
Click to expand...
I need to join your circle of friends
 
Law2Doc said:
I enjoy it and for me it was worth it. However a lot of my perspective is based on where I've been and the kind of mindset and goals I have; it's definitely not the right job for everybody. In fact I'd say I've read enough posts on pre allo to say it's not going to be the dream job for an awful lot of people on here. A lot of it stems from reality not matching up with the dream. The answer? Shadow more. Ask more questions. Look before you leap.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I get the same "you're going to be really disappointed" premonitions from pre-allo (and allo) posters, but it's for reasons that go way beyond the bolded.

Medicine is a really awful field for people who don't have their lives in order outside of the hospital, and the people I know at my stage of career who are miserable are people who don't have the social and personal support networks in place to be able to soften the blows from when the job becomes draining or emotionally taxing. It's not just the "I'm going to walk into the hospital and be fulfilled by all the helping people I'm going to do and get paid Scrooge McDuck money to do it!" types of naievity that gets people. Even people who are pragmatic about their jobs struggle when they don't have much in their lives to go to after they clock out.

Or put simply: Take a look at the miserable people at your school who were pre-med. Do you think those miserable people are suddenly going to be happy when they became doctors?
 
I don't know. It's just a random assortment of my friends from NYC/SF. I don't really know folks that make less than a 100k at this point. Could be exceptions, but I find it hard to swallow that all my friends (myself included) are all exceptions.

Giovanotto said:
If that isn't a list of exceptions I don't know what is. I'm sorry, but I have plenty of friends with bachelors from well known schools in impacted states in engineering, finance, and econ and none of them are even close to breaking a six figure salary.

We understand that its possible, but it is far from the norm, whereas 150-200k as a physician is.
Click to expand...
 
mspeedwagon said:
I don't know. It's just a random assortment of my friends from NYC/SF. I don't really know folks that make less than a 100k at this point. Could be exceptions, but I find it hard to swallow that all my friends (myself included) are all exceptions.
Click to expand...
You can say whatever you want, most people here are in severe denial than anyone other than a doctor could be successful in life, lol.
 
mspeedwagon said:
I posted before about my income and the income in my close circle of friends.
- I made a little over $150k working 10 a.m. - 4 p.m. on most days in pharma (6 p.m. on a really, really hard day). I only have a bachelor's degree not in engineering or CS.
- Friends of mine work only market hours (9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.) in banking and easily makes over $200k a year. Again, only bachelor's degrees.
- As mentioned, I have friends at tech companies, that also work a standard 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. and pull over 200k. Most have bachelor's degrees in CS, but one actually dropped out of college to join facebook back when I was in undergrad (he's now a multi-millionaire).
- A friend works sales at Oracle. I'm not sure of his hours, but there is virtually no chance he works more than a 4o hour week. He works from home and goes to the occasional client meeting. Again, bachelor's degree with 200k+ salary base (plus he makes commissions).
- I have a friend that is a cop with the California Highway Patrol. Base salary is $100k for 40 hrs, plus significant overtime pay. The job also comes with a pension.
- I have a friend that was recently on Survivor that is an executive on Yahoo, again only holds a bachelor's degree. She said her work hours weren't too bad (interpret this how you will) and she made her first million at 25 (I don't know what her income is, but her million by 25 came primarily from salary: http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/yahoo-exec-survivor-first-million/).

Essentially, most high income jobs for those with a bachelor's degree are confined to banking, pharma, sales, tech. There are several other folks I know that earn 200k+ in various other fields, but they work more than 40 hrs, sometimes way, way more.

I should add becoming a doctor to me is more about passion because it's a ton of hours for not that much pay relative to what many already make working way, way less.
Click to expand...
you have an exceptional, atypical group of friends. i have friends too. none of them as exceptional as yours.
 
Mad Jack said:
I know plenty of independent small business owners that are neither anyone's ***** nor are they struggling. Medicine, for the intelligent and motivated, is not worth it for the financial aspects alone.
Click to expand...
For every small business owner you know that is doing well, there are thousand of them who are struggling... I can have you talk to my cousin whose job at Chase Bank is to land money to individuals to open small business and he would tell you over 95% of them fail within 2 years...
 
W19 said:
For every small business owner you know that is doing well, there are thousand of them who are struggling... I can have you talk to my cousin whose job at Chase Bank is to land money to individuals to open small business and he would tell you over 95% of them fail within 2 years...
Click to expand...
We get it. Doctor is the perfect job in every way and anyone would be a fool to not want to do it.
 
W19 said:
For every small business owner you know that is doing well, there are thousand of them who are struggling... I can have you talk to my cousin whose job at Chase Bank is to land money to individuals to open small business and he would tell you over 95% of them fail within 2 years...
Click to expand...
I would venture to guess that the vast majority of them do not possess the same degree of success and motivation that someone who is in medical school has- those same abilities applied elsewhere tend to lend themselves to success. The thing is, most people in medicine are risk averse, so they'd rather take the sure shot than the risk, but we'd do far better than the average because we're not the average.
 
mspeedwagon said:
I don't know. It's just a random assortment of my friends from NYC/SF. I don't really know folks that make less than a 100k at this point. Could be exceptions, but I find it hard to swallow that all my friends (myself included) are all exceptions.
Click to expand...

Well, taking a salary sampling of the two most expensive CoL areas in the country is not exactly representative. $100k in NYC is equivalent to a little less than $60k where I grew up. Most of my friends from college are anywhere from $60-$135k, with the two highest being a software engineer from MIT and in corporate sales.

The fact of the matter is that, medicine offers the most stable path to a very high income floor. Even the bottom of the barrel student from a bottom tier school can still make near $200k as an FM doc. You can make a lot more money with a lot less expense and effort in other fields, but the guarantee of a six-figure income just isn't there for most fields. Medicine is for the risk averse.

Edit: @Mad Jack beat me to it
 
Slack3r said:
Well, taking a salary sampling of the two most expensive CoL areas in the country is not exactly representative. $100k in NYC is equivalent to a little less than $60k where I grew up. Most of my friends from college are anywhere from $60-$135k, with the two highest being a software engineer from MIT and in corporate sales.

The fact of the matter is that, medicine offers the most stable path to a very high income floor. Even the bottom of the barrel student from a bottom tier school can still make near $200k as an FM doc. You can make a lot more money with a lot less expense and effort in other fields, but the guarantee of a six-figure income just isn't there for most fields. Medicine is for the risk averse.

Edit: @Mad Jack beat me to it
Click to expand...
It's funny because the people who are so risk averse that they'd rather go to the Carribean to study medicine than do anything else are actually the ones who end up taking the most risks, because they pay enormous amounts of money with no guarantee of matching anywhere.
 
W19 said:
I never said that, but the complaints that I am not seeing here are not unique to medicine. Most jobs suck!
Click to expand...
Yeah, medicine just sucks more because the suck occupies a lot more of your time than most jobs.
 
Mad Jack said:
I would venture to guess that the vast majority of them do not possess the same degree of success and motivation that someone who is in medical school has- those same abilities applied elsewhere tend to lend themselves to success. The thing is, most people in medicine are risk averse, so they'd rather take the sure shot than the risk, but we'd do far better than the average because we're not the average.
Click to expand...
I think you are so wrong here if you think the ability to learn and understand biochem apply in business...
 
chipwhitley said:
Yeah, medicine just sucks more because the suck occupies a lot more of your time than most jobs.
Click to expand...
It depends on specialties and how much money you want to make... I worked at a county health department with a FM physician who semi retired (24 hrs/wk...Tu-Th) in his early 40s. He worked in a rural ER and lived like a resident for another 10 years.
 
I fully agree with paragraph one. I fully disagree with paragraph two. There are many, many other fields that guarantee six-figure incomes. Medicine is one of them, sure, but it's not the only one. Also, medicine has the greatest opportunity cost. It takes 7 yrs of your life post-undergrad to land a real job. In most fields, you'd be in management by that point. But, I think we can all agree that if you go into medicine with no passion for it, it will quickly eat at your soul. There's a reason a lot of folks quit medicine.

Slack3r said:
Well, taking a salary sampling of the two most expensive CoL areas in the country is not exactly representative. $100k in NYC is equivalent to a little less than $60k where I grew up. Most of my friends from college are anywhere from $60-$135k, with the two highest being a software engineer from MIT and in corporate sales.

The fact of the matter is that, medicine offers the most stable path to a very high income floor. Even the bottom of the barrel student from a bottom tier school can still make near $200k as an FM doc. You can make a lot more money with a lot less expense and effort in other fields, but the guarantee of a six-figure income just isn't there for most fields. Medicine is for the risk averse.

Edit: @Mad Jack beat me to it
Click to expand...
 
Mad Jack said:
It is the combination of grit, singular focus, and intelligence to which I was referring, not merely memory.
Click to expand...
Trust me... Being a good businessman requires an entire different set of skills than what you need to be a doc. Physicians are naturally risk-averse as other people already point out, and you can bring that attitute in business if you want to make it... Trust me as someone who could have been sitting at the beach drinking pina colada if I did not bring that risk averse attitude in a business venture that I undertook 6 years ago. Now I am stuck learning what 'Acute Intermittent Porphyria' is 🙁

Why do you think private practice is dying?
 
Last edited:
chipwhitley said:
You can say whatever you want, most people here are in severe denial than anyone other than a doctor could be successful in life, lol.
Click to expand...

No, people are saying that being successful is par for the course in medicine and that once you're practicing it's pretty hard not to be successful by most people's standards. That's just not the case for most other career fields.

chipwhitley said:
Yeah, medicine just sucks more because the suck occupies a lot more of your time than most jobs.
Click to expand...

If medicine sucks so bad to you why are you going into it? Seriously, if it's that bad just do something else.
 
Mad Jack said:
Because of people that are weak in business skills like you, I suppose. Not all of us are so lacking.
Click to expand...
I dont understand your argument... Most doctors will do good in business because they are smart and motivated etc... Private practice is dying because they are weak in business skills like me... Which is it?
 
Last edited:
Brorthopedic said:
I mean it's not like I jump out of bed everyday filled with ecstasy about being a medical student, but it's pretty damn nice knowing that my "job" currently consists of just simply learning. After that, I'm pretty much guaranteed a, well-respected, financially secure job that pays a salary in the 95th+ percentile. Don't get me wrong, medical school is difficult, but we don't have it that bad as some people make it out to be. That's just my personal opinion though, I haven't experienced residency yet.
Click to expand...
You don't have a job, you're collecting debt.
Sc1entific said:
Not trying to have a say, or even pretend like I know what it's like, just trying to stay positive about it all. Did you come here simply to disagree?
Click to expand...
So are you trying to get information, or just say what you want to hear?
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
The money makes even the worst parts of medicine be "worth it."
Click to expand...
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
I thought I made it pretty clear but in case I didn't, I want to emphasize that I said the money would make even the worst parts of medicine tolerable.
Click to expand...
And what @Law2Doc has nicely told you is that it is not true. The paycheck doesn't make it more tolerable. See the suicide rate compared to the general population of med students and physicians. Take several seats.
 
W19 said:
I dont understand your argument... Most doctors will do good in business because they are smart and motivated etc... Private practice is dying because they are weak in business skills like me... Which is it?
Click to expand...
There are two types of doctors, the bold and the meek, and we have been selecting far too few of the latter. There are still a large group, perhaps half of us or close to, that have the skills for business and success outside of medicine. Hell, there's a reason I'm considering an MBA instead of a fellowship lol...
 
W19 said:
I dont understand your argument... Most doctors will do good in business because they are smart and motivated etc... Private practice is dying because they are weak in business skills like me... Which is it?
Click to expand...

A person can be smart and motivated and still fail miserably if they don't have business skills or an understanding of the fundamentals. Some of the brightest med students I've met have said some of the stupidest things I've ever heard about money, and I'd say a pretty large percentage of those I've met are not very good at basic financial planning. Not exactly a winning formula for a physician hoping to run a private business...
 
Mad Jack said:
There are two types of doctors, the bold and the meek, and we have been selecting far too few of the latter. There are still a large group, perhaps half of us or close to, that have the skills for business and success outside of medicine. Hell, there's a reason I'm considering an MBA instead of a fellowship lol...
Click to expand...
If you think an MBA is the tool that will make you a successful businessman, all I'm gonna say: Good Luck!
 
Stagg737 said:
A person can be smart and motivated and still fail miserably if they don't have business skills or an understanding of the fundamentals. Some of the brightest med students I've met have said some of the stupidest things I've ever heard about money, and I'd say a pretty large percentage of those I've met are not very good at basic financial planning. Not exactly a winning formula for a physician hoping to run a private business...
Click to expand...
You are just making my point! thanks.
 
Stagg737 said:
No, people are saying that being successful is par for the course in medicine and that once you're practicing it's pretty hard not to be successful by most people's standards. That's just not the case for most other career fields.
Click to expand...
How exactly are you defining "success"? Because last time I checked most people in other professions aren't on the street. Lots of them are doing very well. Many might not have as high a salary but they also earned for years while we were collecting massive debt. A 200k salary in medicine is not equivalent to a 200k salary elsewhere when you spent >250k (+ interest) and several years of lost income to get it.

But hey tell yourself whatever you need to get to sleep at night.
 
Last edited:
W19 said:
If you think an MBA is the tool that will make you a successful businessman, all I'm gonna say: Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Oh no, I was already quite successful before I entered medicine. But with an MBA from the right institution, I could break into certain circles that are unavailable to the uninitiated. Poor thing, you see the world in such a narrow view, like a horse with blinders.
 
chipwhitley said:
How exactly are you defining "success"? Because last time I checked most people in other professions aren't on the street. Lots of them are doing very well. Many might not have as high a salary but they also earned for years while we were collecting massive debt. A 200k salary in medicine is not equivalent to a 200k salary elsewhere when you spent >250k (+ interest) and several years of lost income to get it.

But hey tell yourself whatever you need to get to sleep at night.
Click to expand...
Not quit true.... 33% of the country have a bachelor degree.... median household salary is 53k/year... Again, I am not saying a career in medicine is all and all ( I actually think medicine sucks), but what a lot of people are saying here are not base in reality.
 
Mad Jack said:
Oh no, I was already quite successful before I entered medicine. But with an MBA from the right institution, I could break into certain circles that are unavailable to the uninitiated. Poor thing, you see the world in such a narrow view, like a horse with blinders.
Click to expand...
Lol... Not engaging in personal attack, but you were talking about things that you had no idea of. How much money have you invested in a business venture before?
 
W19 said:
Not quit true.... 33% of the country have a bachelor degree.... median household salary is 53k/year... Again, I am saying a career in medicine is all and all ( I actually think medicine sucks), but what a lot of people are saying here are not base on reality.
Click to expand...
Wait what? The median income includes 67% of people who DONT have any college degree by your own numbers. I'm talking about professionals here with professional degrees, not people who didn't go to college at all.
 
chipwhitley said:
How exactly are you defining "success"? Because last time I checked most people in other professions aren't on the street. Lots of them are doing very well. Many might not have as high a salary but they also earned for years while we were collecting massive debt. A 200k salary in medicine is not equivalent to a 200k salary elsewhere when you spent 250k (+ interest) and several years of lost income to get it.
Click to expand...

Yes, but most people consider someone that makes 75k/year to be pretty successful. I'll take 400k in total debt with a career salary of 200k over 75k/year out of college with 30k of debt (national average).

W19 said:
You are just making my point! thanks.
Click to expand...

I was referring to your question about why private practices are dying. As you said yourself, business takes a different skill set which most physicians don't have. Running a private practice requires one to either have some business knowledge or hire someone who does, which defeats a large part of opening a private practice (the $$). The other reason is that there are fewer and fewer people willing to jump through all the extra hoops and paperwork that come along with a private practice and are opting for employment by hospitals or other major groups which allow for less personal administrative responsibilities.

chipwhitley said:
Wait what? You say 33% of people have a bachelor's degree, and then you give the median income for everyone - 67% of who DONT even have a bachelor's degree. That makes no sense. I'm talking about professionals here with professional degrees, not people who didn't go to college.
Click to expand...

~66% of high school graduates go to college, median income is around 53k/year. I think there's a good number of people that would be willing to go to 4 extra years of school and take on debt to quadruple their annual income assuming they believed they would enjoy that job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: W19
W19 said:
Lol... Not engaging in personal attack, but you were talking about things that you had no idea of. How much money have you invested in a business venture before?
Click to expand...
Perhaps we should talk in private, I don't care to share that much of myself in public. Sufficed to say, I traded my investments for better things. Investments upon investments, as it were.
 
chipwhitley said:
Wait what? The median income includes 67% of people who DONT have any college degree by your own numbers. I'm talking about professionals here with professional degrees, not people who didn't go to college at all.
Click to expand...
Let me put it that way: If you are making 100k/year, you are on the top 7%.

Again, let me be clear... Medicine sucks! However, if someone is looking for a career they can make money and retire early, it might not be a bad deal. For instance, an EM doc with 25ok student loan can retire in 12 years if he uses his money judiciously.
 
Stagg737 said:
~66% of high school graduates go to college, median income is around 53k/year. I think there's a good number of people that would be willing to go to 4 extra years of school and take on debt to quadruple their annual income assuming they believed they would enjoy that job.
Click to expand...
Lots of people go to college, not many choose degrees in fields that pay well. So your statistic is a bit off. The med school debt is also more than 10 times the average undergrad debt, and you make a fraction of your eventual salary for anywhere between 3 and 7 years following depending on your residency and fellowship choices. It's not an obvious choice unless you have a real interest in the job.

But if you really want to believe that every doctor is a huge success because they have a bit more in the bank than the average person in another field - whatever floats your boat man.
 
Last edited:
Mad Jack said:
Perhaps we should talk in private, I don't care to share that much of myself in public. Sufficed to say, I traded my investments for better things. Investments upon investments, as it were.
Click to expand...
It was just a question... Thanks for actually answering it. I wanted to make sure that people are not talking out of their a$$ here... It seems like many in SDN think because doctors are intelligent; therefore, they can succeed in business as well... I just want to point out one needs a different set of skills in that arena...
 
 
Stagg737 said:
Number of high school graduates who attend college:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/26/business/fewer-us-high-school-graduates-opt-for-college.html

Median U.S. income:
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N
http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf (page 5)

Which stats were wrong?
Click to expand...
You realize median US income includes a huge proportion of people who 1) never graduated high school, 2) graduated but didn't go to college, 3) went to college but didn't finish, and 4) finished college with a useless degree, right? And you're using this statistic to prove that other fields don't do well? Let's compare apples and apples here. No one's arguing that you wouldn't be better off as a doctor than a high school dropout.
 
Last edited:
Why are you guys looking at median household incomes? I prefaced my original post stating there were only certain fields in which you could have a bachelor's degree and make 100k+ (pharma, tech, banking, sales).

You can definitely easily prove that the average household in America makes nowhere near 100k. I don't think that's a point of contention. But, to say that only medicine guarantees a six-figure salary is disillusion. Plenty of other fields do with much lower barriers to entry and without as significant opportunity costs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

true_royal
Can anyone WAMC me for Internal Medicine?
Replies
0
Views
700
true_royal
true_royal
S
  • Question Question
MD/MBA for entrepreneurial aspirations, worth it? will it help?
Replies
11
Views
2K
djo208
D
W
VEPSUM- Mount Sinai Program.. anyone hear back?
Replies
0
Views
371
wiredjazmine
W
P
Chances of matching Internal Medicine?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Dr. Robb Bassett
Dr. Robb Bassett
C
Research conference vs Publication - what's more worth it for residency apps
Replies
3
Views
2K
mvenus929
mvenus929
Top