For current students/DOs-how hard is school/training if you're not crazy about OMT?

[bumblebee611]

Please be kind and view my question as a sincere one--I'm applying to both osteopathic and allopathic medical schools because I'm deeply interested in being a primary care physician, and I want that opportunity in whatever form it comes. I don't have strong feelings about the osteopathic philosophy and I could best be described as lukewarm about OMT. I know that many or most DOs don't actually use OMT in their day-to-day practice--the ones I have met most definitely do not. But last night I went to an osteopathic medicine event in my community, and the featured speaker was a recently retired physician who was and is a big proponent of OMT. I was at least a little uncomfortable with certain claims he made for it, and for the osteopathic philosophy more generally. It got me to wondering--how hard is osteopathic medical school and training for those students and DOs who are not crazy about OMT? Is the focus on OMM/OMT a minor annoyance, or a major downside that would lead anyone to reconsider his/her choice?

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[DoctorKrieger]

I came into it with a pretty neutral view on OMM. Some schools will emphasize it more than others. Mine has 1 hour of lecture and 2 hours of lab per week for OMM. To me, the class is starting to get annoying even though it's not a huge time commitment. It seems like OMM curricula vary widely from school to school and are poorly standardized (i.e., 'At ___-COM we do it this way, but at the Michigan school, they do it like this.'). And you'll probably have the occasional instructor that actually thinks OMM and their magic hands can cure just about anything, but most students know to take those types with a grain of salt. Some students view it as a nice break from the other classes.

In my opinion, it shouldn't really be a factor in school choice unless everything else between two schools is equal. If you like a DO school better (location, atmosphere, tuition, class size, etc.), go to the DO school. Likewise if you feel that way about an MD school. I'm not crazy about OMM but many of my classmates are and my school would still be my number one choice if I had to do it again.

 

[cliquesh]

I was never into OMM, but I sincerely think it is helpful for musculoskeletal complaints. Maybe it's no better than a massage or physical therapy, but it personally improved my back pain. If you end up doing family medicine, you'll have a lot of patients complaining of back pain, and I think you, as a DO who is competent in OMM, will help a lot of patients. So that's something to keep in mind.

Anyway, as someone not interested in OMM, I didn't think learning OMM was that big of a deal. It will take up about 1 to 3 hours of your week, which isn't too bad. I know it would be nice doing something else with that time. Unfortunately, OMM is a huge part of the Comlex, and if you want a good score you need to know OMM well.

 

[jqueb29]

Another thing worth considering is the opportunity cost of time dedicated to OMT/OMM. It sounds like it's 3-4 hours most weeks at school, but from what I've heard from DO friends you can count on another 3-4 hours a week worth of studying for the OMM stuff. I definitely wasn't a fan of the science of OMM when I was looking at schools, but the extra 6-8 hours was the worst part for me. That's one less hour each day of the week you can dedicate to sleeping, free time, or studying real stuff. It may not sound like much time to you, but I can assure you that you will cherish every extra hour you can get once you start med school.

 

[bumblebee611]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I initially wrote my post with some concern about whether I'd just be driven batty by profs who might make outlandish claims for what OMM can achieve, but your comments have highlighted for me the issue of time ... I have kids and if I get into school I'll be commuting quite a bit and well, tossing in a few more hours a week is a real concern.

 

[Stlblues17]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I initially wrote my post with some concern about whether I'd just be driven batty by profs who might make outlandish claims for what OMM can achieve, but your comments have highlighted for me the issue of time ... I have kids and if I get into school I'll be commuting quite a bit and well, tossing in a few more hours a week is a real concern.

Outlandish claims made for ANY type of treatment should always be concerning whether it is manipulation or medications.

I found this a good read if you want to put it into perspective (if your uneasy about DO)
http://in-training.org/an-open-letter-to-the-self-loathing-d-o-students-2090.

Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[baxt1412]

were you crazy about every undergrad class you had to take?

likewise, I doubt you'll be crazy about every class you have to take in med school either. sure it's a drag, but if it is what stands between you becoming a doctor and not becoming a doctor, what would you do?

IMO, attitude plays a big role... go into it seeing it as a tool you could potentially use to improve someone's life. even if you don't plan on using it in your practice some day, family members, friends, etc can benefit from it immensely.

 

[Tapoona]

...It sounds like it's 3-4 hours most weeks at school, but from what I've heard from DO friends you can count on another 3-4 hours a week worth of studying for the OMM stuff...the extra 6-8 hours was the worst part for me. That's one less hour each day of the week you can dedicate to sleeping, free time, or studying real stuff. It may not sound like much time to you, but I can assure you that you will cherish every extra hour you can get once you start med school.

I think the best thing to do would be to talk to current students at your school of interest about their OMM course. Each school may be different in the time commitment needed for OMM.

At my school we have 1 lecture and 1 lab per week. So that amounts to 2.5 hours per week. Most people just study the week leading up to an exam.

I knew virtually nothing about OMM before I started school. I'm not super into it, but I can definitely see it's utility and wish I were more proficient. Knowing enough to get an A in the class is different than being proficient, which is my case.

 

[Discreteusername]

Please be kind and view my question as a sincere one--I'm applying to both osteopathic and allopathic medical schools because I'm deeply interested in being a primary care physician, and I want that opportunity in whatever form it comes. I don't have strong feelings about the osteopathic philosophy and I could best be described as lukewarm about OMT. I know that many or most DOs don't actually use OMT in their day-to-day practice--the ones I have met most definitely do not. But last night I went to an osteopathic medicine event in my community, and the featured speaker was a recently retired physician who was and is a big proponent of OMT. I was at least a little uncomfortable with certain claims he made for it, and for the osteopathic philosophy more generally. It got me to wondering--how hard is osteopathic medical school and training for those students and DOs who are not crazy about OMT? Is the focus on OMM/OMT a minor annoyance, or a major downside that would lead anyone to reconsider his/her choice?

Hey there.
If your interested in primary care, then choosing DO might not be all bad. Give you a practical example here... the second most common reason for pcp visit is lower back pain. While our MD counterparts usually rule out disc herniation with a straight leg raise followed by a flexril prescription and a diagnosis of "muscle imbalance", DOs have numerous tools at their disposal to address the issue, both intense method (like HVLA) or not so intense methods (like counterstrain or myofacial release etc). And OMM isn't limited to musculoskeletal dysfunctions, there have been plenty of studies that showed faster recovery in upper respiratory diseases or diseases involving the lymphatics, if you're interested, you can look at how OMM played an important role during the Spanish flu (i think that was the one) by addressing lymph flow and general circulations.

That being said, if you chose the DO route, there will be times during your first two years where you absolutely dread your DO classes, probably more so in your second year. Want to study for the boards? finals packed with path, micro, pharm, and ICM? well tough luck, there's an annoying OMM block right in the center of your schedule. Theses aren't hard tests, but they take time away from what you really want to address. And the classes themselves take a significant amount of time each week, which is an annoyance all by itself.

I guess my advice is this... if you do decide to go DO, you will learn some techniques that could be awesome for your primary care career, but almost useless if you decide to do anything else. Be prepared to spend a significant time of your schedule in OMM, even if you don't want to. Unlike your other "core" classes, OMM (atleast the practical/lab section) can't be skipped.

 

[ERK123]

I am skeptical of many of the claims made about OMM outside of the muscularskelatal system, but I am looking forward to learning the techniques because there might be a role in muscle skeletal pain that traditional medicine often makes worse. Additionally, there is a tremendous amount of traditional medicine that has no verification in clinical research, and they are often much more invasive and risky than OMM.

There is also a growing body of research studying OMM (about time!) that I would encourage you to check out. Here is one study published in the Annals of Family Medicine comparing OMM to Ultra Sound Therapy for Chronic Back Pain. Her are some studies:
http://www.annfammed.org/content/11/2/122.long
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2012.0354?journalCode=acm
http://www.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/113/6/468.full.pdf
http://www.archives-pmr.org/article/S0003-9993(14)00367-0/pdf

 

[Goro]

Of my students who are like this, as long as they hold their tongues and go though the motions, they still do fine.

If it's really an issue with you, avoid the schools where OMM is given more than lip service, like KCOM.

Please be kind and view my question as a sincere one--I'm applying to both osteopathic and allopathic medical schools because I'm deeply interested in being a primary care physician, and I want that opportunity in whatever form it comes. I don't have strong feelings about the osteopathic philosophy and I could best be described as lukewarm about OMT. I know that many or most DOs don't actually use OMT in their day-to-day practice--the ones I have met most definitely do not. But last night I went to an osteopathic medicine event in my community, and the featured speaker was a recently retired physician who was and is a big proponent of OMT. I was at least a little uncomfortable with certain claims he made for it, and for the osteopathic philosophy more generally. It got me to wondering--how hard is osteopathic medical school and training for those students and DOs who are not crazy about OMT? Is the focus on OMM/OMT a minor annoyance, or a major downside that would lead anyone to reconsider his/her choice?

 

[UTsksk]

Some of my favorite docs that have taught us are the OMM/Sports Med docs. They are pretty cool and help me enjoy OMM more than I would have. Odds are I won't be using it in practice, but I can see myself using some techniques on family and friends. Some of my favorites are cervical, thoracic, lumbar muscle energy/HVLA. Also, sacral and innominate muscle energy. Used some of Spencer's techniques on my dad when he complained of tight hamstrings.

 

[GUH]

Another thing worth considering is the opportunity cost of time dedicated to OMT/OMM. It sounds like it's 3-4 hours most weeks at school, but from what I've heard from DO friends you can count on another 3-4 hours a week worth of studying for the OMM stuff...

I know very, very few students who spend that much time on OMM outside of class, and I tend to hang out with people who are more into OMM than average.
That being said, if you really don't want to learn OMM, then don't attend an osteopathic medical school.

 

[DrEnderW]

I know very, very few students who spend that much time on OMM outside of class, and I tend to hang out with people who are more into OMM than average.
That being said, if you really don't want to learn OMM, then don't attend an osteopathic medical school.

I agree.

I have never put 3hrs into OMM outside of class in a given week, aside from the 2 days immediately preceding an exam. Absolute maximum is 3hr class/lab and very occasionally 30min-1hr lecture prep. I've done extremely well in OMM too. What's most annoying is losing a couple days/weekend before a test but I think the day-to-day or weekly burden is relatively minimal.

 

[seahorsemuseum]

this is all good to know. i haven't heard from too many current students that love it, but i'm trying to keep an open mind as an applicant this year. its kinda funny though - i had a friend tour a local DO school recently and she didn't know much about it beforehand. she said her least favorite impression was the "chiropractic class".. which i guess is what it seems like to outsiders.

 

[Tirian]

Here is one study published in the Annals of Family Medicine comparing OMM to Ultra Sound Therapy for Chronic Back Pain.

The DO I shadow does both. He says that the ultrasound helps prepare the tissue for the OMM.

 

[ERK123]

The DO I shadow does both. He says that the ultrasound helps prepare the tissue for the OMM.

And yet there is no evidence based medicine showing that ultrasound therapy is effective for treating back pain. This study did not show it either. That is not to say it doesn't work, however.

 

[hallowmann]

OP, OMM is really not a big deal. Lots of people like it and lots of people don't. Go in with an open mind, take out of it what you think would actually be useful and dismiss what you don't.

I know very, very few students who spend that much time on OMM outside of class, and I tend to hang out with people who are more into OMM than average.
That being said, if you really don't want to learn OMM, then don't attend an osteopathic medical school.

This. A couple hours a week at most in addition to class time. 3-4 hours before an exam. If you're spending 6-8 hours studying every week for OMM, you're doing something wrong. Conceptually, it's not particularly difficult, and as far as techniques go, you practice treatment a few times after each session, and you should be good.

 

[costales]

OMM definitely has its uses. I've seen it give immediate or substantial relief to many people. It's a bit hard to appreciate its usefulness when you're in the OMM lab because most students don't have any issues. Timewise, it's minor and not worth getting obsessed over.

 

[Mad Jack]

Another thing worth considering is the opportunity cost of time dedicated to OMT/OMM. It sounds like it's 3-4 hours most weeks at school, but from what I've heard from DO friends you can count on another 3-4 hours a week worth of studying for the OMM stuff. I definitely wasn't a fan of the science of OMM when I was looking at schools, but the extra 6-8 hours was the worst part for me. That's one less hour each day of the week you can dedicate to sleeping, free time, or studying real stuff. It may not sound like much time to you, but I can assure you that you will cherish every extra hour you can get once you start med school.

If you need to study an extra 3-4 hours per week for OMM, you're doing something very, very wrong.

I have to sink maybe 6 hours of dedicated OMM study per block, usually just prior to each exam. That averages out to 1 hour per week, max, and that is to study all of OMM, not just one block's material.

OMM eats up an extra 4-8 hours of lecture and lab a week, usually on the low side, but we're in class for an additional month compared to most MD schools, so it isn't like the material is more compressed.

 

[Mad Jack]

this is all good to know. i haven't heard from too many current students that love it, but i'm trying to keep an open mind as an applicant this year. its kinda funny though - i had a friend tour a local DO school recently and she didn't know much about it beforehand. she said her least favorite impression was the "chiropractic class".. which i guess is what it seems like to outsiders.

I came in very skeptical of it myself, but honestly there's a lot of useful treatments you learn. The question is less about "how much does this work" and more about "how much utility does this actually have for most patients?" For some people, it is profoundly beneficial (I've got a pretty messed up spine that is hypertonic and painful all along the right side, and the only thing that seems to help it is conterstrain, for instance). For others it is treating things so minor that they would cause no noticeable pain or discomfort to begin with (most of what you'll see in lab, since most everyone is healthy).

It can be frustrating to learn when you've got no intention of ever using it though- I'm leaning heavily toward psychiatry, for instance, so there's pretty much zero chance of me ever using it in practice. Then again, you'll learn a lot of stuff in med school that gives you that feeling, so really it's not as bad as you'd think.

 

[wjs010]

OMM is a big annoying distraction from the important classes in med school.

 

[NontradCA]

Another thing worth considering is the opportunity cost of time dedicated to OMT/OMM. It sounds like it's 3-4 hours most weeks at school, but from what I've heard from DO friends you can count on another 3-4 hours a week worth of studying for the OMM stuff. I definitely wasn't a fan of the science of OMM when I was looking at schools, but the extra 6-8 hours was the worst part for me. That's one less hour each day of the week you can dedicate to sleeping, free time, or studying real stuff. It may not sound like much time to you, but I can assure you that you will cherish every extra hour you can get once you start med school.

You are a DO student?

 

[NontradCA]

I agree.

I have never put 3hrs into OMM outside of class in a given week, aside from the 2 days immediately preceding an exam. Absolute maximum is 3hr class/lab and very occasionally 30min-1hr lecture prep. I've done extremely well in OMM too. What's most annoying is losing a couple days/weekend before a test but I think the day-to-day or weekly burden is relatively minimal.

This. OMT is super easy, and it's high yield to boards. Most students at my school don't even think about OMM 3 hours a week, let alone study it. I actually think it's beneficial to put an extra hour in a week and to pay attention during labs. Trust me, you'll do a lot of low yield, waste of time nonsense in med school. OMM is well represented on boards.

 

[wjs010]

I agree.

I have never put 3hrs into OMM outside of class in a given week, aside from the 2 days immediately preceding an exam. Absolute maximum is 3hr class/lab and very occasionally 30min-1hr lecture prep. I've done extremely well in OMM too. What's most annoying is losing a couple days/weekend before a test but I think the day-to-day or weekly burden is relatively minimal.

This... I just hope the hours that it takes away doesn't do any significant damage to board scores. OMM actually isn't always in the back of our heads during the week, but if we have heavy OMM weeks along with medicine exams, the OMM does take a huge toll. Having a written and practical exam in OMM in the same week as other (actually relevant) exams can make it very difficult.

 

[TopTomato]

This... I just hope the hours that it takes away doesn't do any significant damage to board scores. OMM actually isn't always in the back of our heads during the week, but if we have heavy OMM weeks along with medicine exams, the OMM does take a huge toll. Having a written and practical exam in OMM in the same week as other (actually relevant) exams can make it very difficult.

How many written OMM exams do you have? The only time I have a written is at the end of the term

 

[wjs010]

How many written OMM exams do you have? The only time I have a written is at the end of the term

2 writtens.. But OMM here is pretty serious. Lots of people are actually failing m1 because of OMM.

 

[TopTomato]

2 writtens.. But OMM here is pretty serious. Lots of people are actually failing m1 because of OMM.

Wow, i'm surprised. You're GA-PCOM right? I figured we'd have the same curriculum. For us every term we have 2 OMM practicals, 1 take home quiz, and 1 written at the end of every term.

 

[jqueb29]

You are a DO student?

No but I interviewed at several. The time commitment obviously varies from school to school, but, for me, any time spent on OMM was a waste of time if I was able to go MD instead. To each their own though, it just wasn't for me.

 

[SLC]

I hated OMM class, like literally decided I was doing ACGME only for residency because I don't want to be required to do any OMM after graduation (3 months y'all!!!)

That being said, OMM was a no-brainer class that I literally spent like 1-2 hours the night before a class studying for. Just halfway pay attention in class and make sure you are ready for the practicals and you'll be golden. Even though I pretty much never studied OMM I still averaged in the high 80's in the class, it is really that easy.

Plus, as much as I hate it, there are still times I'll offer it to patients. It's a handy tool to have and patients really like it for the most part. Someone going into primary care would be well suited to learn a few things. On the interview trail this year there were MD residents learning OMT from their classmates because they saw the value in knowing a few basic techniques.

 

[DrEnderW]

This... I just hope the hours that it takes away doesn't do any significant damage to board scores.

I agree with the if you're someone who is concerned with the USMLE only.

As for myself, I likely want an AOA surgical sub-specialty so the COMLEX is extremely important. I've always taken OMM as seriously as any other class because with something like 10% of the exam being OMM, it's points that can put you in another tier. I'm definitely not someone that's going to do 24 hours of Savarese in between exams but everyone is different. If you're interested in something like ACGME IM then, yeah, don't waste the time doing much OMM.

 

[wjs010]

I hated OMM class, like literally decided I was doing ACGME only for residency because I don't want to have to do any OMM after graduation (3 months y'all!!!)

That being said, OMM was a no-brainer class that I literally spent like 1-2 hours the night before a class studying for. Just halfway pay attention in class and make sure you are ready for the practicals and you'll be golden. Even though I pretty much never studied OMM I still averaged in the high 80's in the class, it is really that easy.

Plus, as much as I hate it, there are still times I'll offer it to patients. It's a handy tool to have and patients really like it for the most part. Someone going into primary care would be well suited to learn a few things. On the interview trail this year there were MD residents learning OMT from their classmates because they saw the value in knowing a few basic techniques.

Wait, you have to do OMM in an AOA residency ?

 

[SLC]

Wait, you have to do OMM in an AOA residency ?

At the very least you will as part of your intern year. But I fully expect there to be OMM integrated wherever possible at many programs. I wanted no part of that so I didn't even apply AOA.

 

[wjs010]

At the very least you will as part of your intern year. But I fully expect there to be OMM integrated wherever possible at many programs. I wanted no part of that so I didn't even apply AOA.

Lol. Looks like I won't either

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[wjs010]

If you didn't, then there would be no difference between AOA and ACGME residencies.

I thought there were no differences in the residencies, just the schools

 

[s5260205]

I don't think OMM is used much beyond AOA family medicine and neuromuscular medicine residency.

 

[kderekb]

I spend about 4-5 hours a week learning OMM, and that includes lab and lecture. I honestly just study so I can do well on the test/practical. In the real world I won't be treating any patients with OMM voodoo magic that won't do anything.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's your weekly punishment for not studying harder in undergrad.

 

[deleted480308]

It's your weekly punishment for not studying harder in undergrad.

I don't even mind omm but I thought this was hilarious

 

[deleted436726]

It's your weekly punishment for not studying harder in undergrad.

If my weekly punishment consists of touching other people (potentially of the other sex), I'm all for it

 

[Derivations]

As someone who isn't crazy about OMM and has no intentions of using it in practice, it's ****ing annoying. I have a huge anatomy test next week that I need to be studying for but instead I'm studying for this god foresaken OMM practical. I'm just trying to do the bare minimum to pass the class since I know I'll be matching into ACGME and my COMLEX score won't even be looked at.

Overall its not a huge time sink, but at times it can be really inconvenient when you have more pressing issues to deal with. If you get an acceptance at an MD school, take it and run with it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If my weekly punishment consists of touching other people (potentially of the other sex), I'm all for it

So, so naive.