For PBL students, how does it work at your school...And how does it work in General?

[MD2b20004]

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I am interested in how PBL works at different schools whether MD or DO and how the people like it. Do you not have to disect bodies, do you not have to attend any lecture, how do you get graded? Any other input would be appreciated.

 

[MD2b20004]

come on 100s of views with no response, I know there are a lot of you on the PBL system and can answer my questions 😕

 

[xlithiumx]

I am interested in how PBL works at different schools whether MD or DO and how the people like it. Do you not have to disect bodies, do you not have to attend any lecture, how do you get graded? Any other input would be appreciated.

Hi there. I am not at an exclusively PBL school, but we have it integrated into our traditional lecture-based curriculum. So, here's my two cents on PBL. It can get frustrating at times when you get a really easy/obvious case to work through and you have to spend 4 hours talking out differentials and physical exam maneuvers and labs, etc. So, that can be kind of irritating, but in the long run it's really valuable because you learn that process of working through medical problems, and when you encounter a really tough one, your differential diagnosis skills will be better off for it.

I like PBL in moderation.

Hope that helps.

 

[BozoSparky]

my school is very pbl.

it can be frustrating and feels hit & miss at times, depending on your group or the facilitator.

however, we usually present something to our peers at least 3 times a week. this is a great way to learn. also, it helps develop excellent teamwork skills, and oh boy...some of us really need it! medicine is a huge field, so i had to learn to really filter myself...you can't present everything in 5-10 minutes...you need to hit the key points/concepts and move on. finally, i was shadowing a radiation oncologist once, and sat in on a tumor board meeting. and...it was very similar to a pbl session. the various physicians dealt with different personalities, stood up for their professional opinions, learned from others, and came to a reasonable decision on the patient's treatment. it wasn't pretty, but it worked. and the same goes for pbl...it's not always pretty, and sometimes feels like the biggest waste of time because let's face it, we can all go out, buy the book and understand the material. i was blown away at that tumor board...the whole point of pbl smacked me in the face.

oh, for the functional details...we have a couple of lectures a day and usually 2-3 pbl sessions per week. also, we have labs/conferences. conferences are larger group meetings where we discuss a certain topic, maybe go over a problem set or a case. yes, we dissect, look under the microscope, all that...but we spend less time in lecture, that's for sure. our pbl gropus are typically 6-8 people plus a facilitator. we have exams, usually 2 per 6-8 week block.

 

[foo]

Silly question...

In the TV show "House", are the sessions in which the team of doctors present information and discuss differential diagnosis (all "zebra" cases of course) anything like PBL?

 

[BozoSparky]

Silly question...

In the TV show "House", are the sessions in which the team of doctors present information and discuss differential diagnosis (all "zebra" cases of course) anything like PBL?

gosh, i'm dying to see House. i've heard great things about it. is the first season on dvd yet?

well, yeah, we try to diagnose...and it's a little funny when we don't have much info. but...it's easy to narrow it down based on the block you happen to be in. haha...i remember in microbiology, when our patient had fever, chills, etc...all general symptoms...our differential was astronomical.

 

[toehammer]

pbl is a waste of time and the person who invented it, like the person who invented the tie, should be shot.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

pbl is a waste of time and the person who invented it, like the person who invented the tie, should be shot.

I was all gung-ho about PBL until every med student I met at schools with PBL complained about it. On the interview trail, the only students that would speak in favor of PBL were those students that the school put in front of us to answer questions, you know, the "drink the kool-aid" type students who claimed the school could do no wrong. I don't know why people do this, it obviously damages your credibility when you spin everything positively and downplay obvious problems that your school has.

 

[toehammer]

pbl at most places needs to be revamped.

 

[rpkall]

We have some PBL sessions scattered throughout a more traditional lecture/block style curriculum.

In first year, it was kind of a pain; the class was split into so many groups, and they had to really struggle to maintain consistency. The information you got in each session (beyond the very, very basics) was often different in depth, breadth, and scope between groups--and highly dependent on how much work the students had done before the case on background info, etc, before the class. Some students presented their aspect of their case very well, others blew it off. So it got a little frustrating.

Some PBL sessions are just "show up and bring your brain," and these are better, but these can be a pain too. Sometimes I feel like I'd have gotten more out of the same topics if I had just studied them alone out of a textbook or lecture notes for 3 hours.

I mean, that's med school: you need to learn to read books, take notes, and memorize stuff. And if you don't understand something, you can always ask a friend. Everyone's smart, just in slightly different ways. If you don't get something, someone else does...

About ethics: I thought the course was valuable; maybe this is just one of those things that is highly variable from school to school. We had smaller seminar groups, and most of my group was respectful, talkative, thoughtful, and insightful; I'm sure that helps a lot, too.

 

[GreenT]

I very stongly dislike pbl. We have about 10-12 hours of it a week and time can really drag. For example, take a simple case like the flu and spend 4 hours discussing it, beating the topic into the ground, and stating obvious points and listen to classmates make random comments. It is not all it is cracked up to be.
If you get luck and have a good teacher leading the session it can be good but in my experience this only happens (5-10% of the time).
I would always bring a study sheet of random stuff I needed to memorize to the pbl session and just keep it out on the table for those times when the discussion turns for 30 minutes to discussion of what some students "Aunt Nelly" experienced etc.
Also for the times when students present to students, this can be really frustrating as many people just "get it done" and don't think through the case or their differential dx. It is obviously a ddx list from emedicine with absolutely no thought or insight behind it.

 

[powerhungrymice]

The good:

1. From what i've seen in hospital discussion meetings between residents, it's like PBL, except alot quicker, minus the bull**** (Aunt Nellies, whathaveyou..) Thus, there is some basis as to why this system of learning is used.

2. Helps you think about the problem multi-dimensionally, including all other scenerios, which also helps you tie in other themes e.g. cardio + microB therefore revisiting cardio too from previous semesters

3. Makes you realise that there is always something you don't know about a topic you think you know well enough already. People sometimes point out interesting tidbits on new research which is useful, esp if you don't usually read journal articles.

The bad:

1. The bull****. Either mucking around for some minutes on someone's useless tangent (i.e. totally unrelated and a time-waster) or listening politely to another's 'i knew this girl, who knew this girl, who had...' story NEXT.

2. Not knowing enough basic theory. My course is half PBL half lectures but very much self-directed. Frankly I could use more knowledge on radiology, anat and path which are the pillars in medicine, in my honest opinion.

3. The fact that it's assessed. It's only about 10% from the tutor's assessment in mine, but you know how med students are. Some people will bring up the most inane subjects to talk about for the sake of talking ('lookie! i'm contributing!') or ask questions that throw the group entirely off course. The bloody thing's only 2 hours long..what say we leave the interrogation to Dr. Phil.

Sometimes I wonder if they know that there are other people in the room.