For schools to make public match results with your name is a violation of privacy

[MacGyver]

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Members don't see this ad.

I can understand that they want to show how their grads matched. My question is why the hell is it necessary to publicize the names for the match?

it makes absolutely no difference to the person viewing the list whether there are names there or not.

Also, the NRMP and program directors should be prohibited from releasing personal info.

These are all violations of privacy. Only the programs you are applying to and the NRMP need to know that kind of info. For them and med schools to share it publicly WITHOUT YOUR EXPRESSED CONSENT should be considered a violation.

The following is a list of things that should be prohibited:

1) PDs should NOT be allowed to find out from the NRMP where you applied

2) Med schools should be prohibited from publishing names with their match lists

3) Med schools should be prohibited from revealing personal info about where people matched without permission

4) PDs should NOT be allowed to reveal names of which people are applying to their program.

5) PDs should be prohibited from revealing people's names UNTIL THE MATCH IS COMPLETE at which time they may publicize the names of the people who matched at their program

 

[mpp]

You can find out this information for any M.D. in the United States. Check here.

 

[MacGyver]

Yeah but that site reveals info only about doctors who are settled down and have chosen to practice in a given location.

Thats ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from revealing personal info about job applicants to different positions. If that site had a list of any jobs that they had APPLIED FOR BUT NOT ACCEPTED then its a violation of privacy.

 

[lodger]

I ask this question in all seriousness but who cares. It pissed me off back in college when they were no longer able to post grades by ID number because it invaded someone's privacy. All it did was annoy the rest of us.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by lodger
I ask this question in all seriousness but who cares. It pissed me off back in college when they were no longer able to post grades by ID number because it invaded someone's privacy. All it did was annoy the rest of us.

The reason you should care is because if they dont keep your name private in the application process, its very easy for the process to break down into a collusion by the PDs who attempt to re-rank their lists based on what info they get from other PDs.

Of course, the official policy is that PDs arent supposed to let that kind of info affect their rank order list. 🙄

By the way, why would posting ID numbers be a violation of privacy? Student ID numbers should not be publicly available information, so using them to post grades shouldnt matter.

 

[mpp]

The site has residents as well. It has anyone that has an M.D. in the United States. It takes about month after receiving the degree to be in the system. You can see what residency or fellowship the physician is in or where they have completed their residency and/or fellowship as well as where they went to medical school. It is a little different then a school handing you a match list of their recent graduates but I don't see either as an invasion of privacy. Being a doctor is kind of a public profession. Perhaps the medical schools that share there match lists along with the names of those matched have received consent from those involved. If it is a big deal to you, I would be certain to let your medical school know that you don't want your name to be on any public match lists. I'm sure they would be happy to comply. I don't know about the other things you posted but I don't see why anyone would want to know where I applied nor would I care if anyone found out.

 

[LaCirujana]

I looked for several physicians (residents, as well as docs who've been in practice for years, in various specialties), including myself on the website another poster linked to--none of us are there....😕

 

[edfig99]

i think you sign away your right to privacy in some regards in the fine print of your enrollment materials, beit enrollment for med school, and the match. i'm looking at my new contract and there is a paragraph that essentially states not only can people within my organization collect, view, verify and post my information, but I will not hold the hospital or any of those people liable. I can probably work on striking that from the contract, but then I run the risk of not getting the job. though med school is a little different, i think there are similar clauses in registration and enrollment materials, and you probably have to write some letter to get out of having your stuff posted.

regarding the link to the AMA site above, the only physicians listed in that directory are 1. members of the AMA and 2. licensed physicians. Again, you have to write to opt out of your information being made public. The NYS medical board makes most things public, not only do they show where you went to med school and residency, on a link to their office of professional conduct you can find out if they have any malpractice cases or complaints pending against them, irrespective of who's in the wrong.. You're NOT allowed to not have that stuff posted. Due to the commercialization of medicine, medicine is now a very public profession for the physicians/providers. HIPAA only applies to patient privacy, not physician.

In regards to PDs knowing where people applied, they do not get this information until long after the match and only to be used for statistical purposes, i.e. they want to know why they didn't attract certain applicants so they can improve their recruitment process...I don't think that's an invasion of privacy. In fact, many of you that participate in the match may get a survey (with $ compensation) to fill out regarding where you applied...you have to volunteer the info. Any information PDs get about another applicant prior to the match is obtained strictly by word of mouth...and even if it gets there, collusion between PDs in programs that participate in the match is illegal...there are a lot of skeptics out there, but i do think that PDs try to stick to the letter of the law.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by edfig99
Any information PDs get about another applicant prior to the match is obtained strictly by word of mouth...and even if it gets there, collusion between PDs in programs that participate in the match is illegal...there are a lot of skeptics out there, but i do think that PDs try to stick to the letter of the law.

PDs talking to each other about applicants before the match should be STRICTLY BANNED AND PROHIBITED. Theres absolutely no reason for PDs to need to do this before the match (unless they are in collusion).

There needs to be language in the NRMP contract with PDs which states this.

After the match, its no big deal. I'm talking about pre-match during application process.

 

[Brewster]

Actually, the one reason for PD's to talk to each other before the match is to get more information/recommendations about an applicant. That is, the PD at a program you are applying to calls the PD at your school or at a school you rotated at to talk about your qualifications. You want them doing this (as long as you made a good impression).

(At smaller programs, the PD and chairperson may be the same.)

 

[doctim]

Originally posted by MacGyver
PDs talking to each other about applicants before the match should be STRICTLY BANNED AND PROHIBITED. Theres absolutely no reason for PDs to need to do this before the match (unless they are in collusion).

There needs to be language in the NRMP contract with PDs which states this.

After the match, its no big deal. I'm talking about pre-match during application process.

mac,
who's going to enforce this???

 

[southerndoc]

Something tells me MacGuyver didn't get his number 1 match choice.

I'm sorry that you didn't MacGuyver, but I like to find out where my classmates are going. I think no matter where you match it should be viewed as a sense of accomplishment.

When I go to match next year, I will proudly sign away my right to privacy and allow my school to send out its annual match day email telling everyone where students have matched. Even if I have to scramble, I will still fill comfortable doing this.

 

[mpp]

Originally posted by edfig99
regarding the link to the AMA site above, the only physicians listed in that directory are 1. members of the AMA and 2. licensed physicians.

Actually, take a look in that directory. It contains all physicians (even osteopathic physicians and non-AMA members) whether in residency or not (however I cannot confirm if they have all been licensed or not).

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by mpp
Actually, take a look in that directory. It contains all physicians (even osteopathic physicians and non-AMA members) whether in residency or not (however I cannot confirm if they have all been licensed or not).

Hmm...I couldn't find myself, and I am licensed.

Acually MacGyver, as you advance your career, it becomes standard of practice for your colleagues and employers to provide information about you. There aren't too many secrets as far as your career goes - you are acountable for everything in your past and for the impressions that others have formed about you, good or bad. When you graduate from residency, you'll have to provide a series of personal recommendations from colleagues to the state board in order to obtain your license - one of which must come from your program director. Anyone who chooses to - patients, family members, nurses, pissed off nieghbors - can contact your state licensing board and file concerns about you. The onus is on you to justify your capacity as a careful, responsible and socially capable physician. It's both scary and necessary.

The reality - too - is that your reputation will preceed you for the rest of your medical life. It's a fulltime job and a sometimes pain in the ass to constantly have to guard your reputation, but it's something we all must do to be moderately successful in this business. We all deal with colleagues we think are nuts and irrational, yet if you're smart (boy do I struggle with this!) you'll find a way to interact with them so that they walk away more likely to speak well of you than ill. It's tough. There's a lot more diplomacy to the practice of medicine than you'd ever imagine.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Geek Medic
Something tells me MacGuyver didn't get his number 1 match choice.

Umm not yet. Next year we'll see.

I'm sorry that you didn't MacGuyver, but I like to find out where my classmates are going. I think no matter where you match it should be viewed as a sense of accomplishment.

thats fine i like to see where they are going too. But I think its reasonable for me to ASK THEM if I want to know. I dont have an automatic right to that information. I mean really, whats the purpose of publishing names? What real role does it serve?

When I go to match next year, I will proudly sign away my right to privacy and allow my school to send out its annual match day email telling everyone where students have matched. Even if I have to scramble, I will still fill comfortable doing this.

Look, i've got no problem with publishing match lists. My qualm is WHY are publishing the names necessary? It serves no purpose. If people want to know where you matched, they can come up to you and ask. Its not that hard.

 

[MacGyver]

By the way, match list ceremonies are stupid. I plan on skipping mine.

Getting into A residency is easy, so basically what it boils down to is a competition where people brag about where they and other people matched and are trying to size each other up.

Med student A: "Hey, congrats on the match! Where are you going?

Med student B: "i matched at university of texas san antonio"

Med student A: "Hey thats a great program. I'm going to be at MGH, and student C is going to be at Brigham&Womens. Oh did you hear that student D is going to be at UCSF and student E is going to be at Hopkins?"

Med student B: "yeah i heard. i'm happy for them"

the match list ceremony is nothing more than a giant "whose &*ck is bigger contest." It serves no purpose and is totally superfluous.

 

[mikecwru]

Uh.... at my match ceremony there was just "Where are you going?" and "Congratulations." There was no putting down. You need to calm down. It's just a celebration with some friends.

mike

Originally posted by MacGyver
By the way, match list ceremonies are stupid. I plan on skipping mine.

Getting into A residency is easy, so basically what it boils down to is a competition where people brag about where they and other people matched and are trying to size each other up.

Med student A: "Hey, congrats on the match! Where are you going?

Med student B: "i matched at university of texas san antonio"

Med student A: "Hey thats a great program. I'm going to be at MGH, and student C is going to be at Brigham&Womens. Oh did you hear that student D is going to be at UCSF and student E is going to be at Hopkins?"

Med student B: "yeah i heard. i'm happy for them"

the match list ceremony is nothing more than a giant "whose &*ck is bigger contest." It serves no purpose and is totally superfluous.

 

[Foxxy Cleopatra]

the match list ceremony is nothing more than a giant "whose &*ck is bigger contest." It serves no purpose and is totally superfluous.

LOL- I guess I could see where that would be true in some cases, but honestly, I thought Match Day was a good time. I was excited to find out where I was going to go, and I thought it was fun to see where my friends were going as well. Can't say program prestige crossed my mind- I was just curious if anyone in my class would be attending the same program where I matched.

I understand that some people may want to protect their anonymity, but the medical community is a small one and word makes its way around one way or another. I completely agree with what womansurg said- even as a student I have seen the importance of protecting your reputation and professionalism.

 

[MacGyver]

By the way, I skipped my white coat ceremony and also plan on skipping graduation too.

So that really puts this match list thing in perspective.

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by MacGyver
By the way, I skipped my white coat ceremony and also plan on skipping graduation too.

So that really puts this match list thing in perspective.

Why in the world would you skip your graduation ceremony? After you've put all of your life into getting your MD degree, you plan on skipping the ceremony dedicated to your transition between student and resident?

Are you a loner?

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Geek Medic
Why in the world would you skip your graduation ceremony? After you've put all of your life into getting your MD degree, you plan on skipping the ceremony dedicated to your transition between student and resident?

Are you a loner?

No I'm not a loner. I certainly plan on going to the parties that night.

I go to a school thats a long way from home. My family back home cant afford the plane costs in traveling out to the school.

In light of that, in addition to the fact that graduations are really long and boring anyways, I dont feel the need to attend

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by MacGyver
I go to a school thats a long way from home. My family back home cant afford the plane costs in traveling out to the school.

I'm sorry to hear that your family cannot attend your graduation. I'm sure they are proud of you! (Most of our parents are!)

 

[deleted4401]

Match day was one of the coolest events I've seen so far in med school. It was so exciting and joyous, and it was not at all a bragging contest. I didn't even know most of the fourth years, but I was so proud of them.

It made my day, and made me want to study and do well. Yeah, that's a little lame, but sometimes I'll take anything I can to justify and explain why I'm going through this.

I couldn't imagine missing Match for the world.

simul

 

[sweetfynesse]

Originally posted by MacGyver
By the way, match list ceremonies are stupid. I plan on skipping mine.

Getting into A residency is easy, so basically what it boils down to is a competition where people brag about where they and other people matched and are trying to size each other up.

Med student A: "Hey, congrats on the match! Where are you going?

Med student B: "i matched at university of texas san antonio"

Med student A: "Hey thats a great program. I'm going to be at MGH, and student C is going to be at Brigham&Womens. Oh did you hear that student D is going to be at UCSF and student E is going to be at Hopkins?"

Med student B: "yeah i heard. i'm happy for them"

the match list ceremony is nothing more than a giant "whose &*ck is bigger contest." It serves no purpose and is totally superfluous.

MacGyver,

if you feel this strongly about the match results, why do you even bother looking at the list to see where students match. it sounds to me like you have some serious issues with socialization, and that you try to make a point to be "unique." as judged by the number of post you?ve submitted (here and elsewhere), you are certainly opinionated, and "care" that your opinion is heard...

at my school , we have to sign a form stating that it is okay to post match information...and, i believe it?s like that at most institutions (read the fine print). also, i think it is fun, and interesting, to actually see the names of the students, as well as the program that they match into for several reasons. if you know many of the students in your school, then you can get an idea of what types of students different programs are interested in, and if you have any questions about programs you have a reference. i don?t think its about whose at the "best program", because people apply to programs for different reasons. we had people that matched all over, and we were just as happy for people who matched at top-tier programs, as those at average programs. i think you?re reading way too much into match day, and everything thing else for that matter.

i honestly could care less about graduation, as well, and know many students who feel the same way. i think its more for family than anyone else. with that said, and because i know it would give them great joy to see my walk across the stage, then i will. why should i take that experience away from them, just because it seems so mundane to me. as far as i am concerned, i graduated when i finished my last day of clinical rotations.

 

[Brewster]

I have to admit I am a sucker for the pomp and circumstance.

That being said, match day is not about "competition," bragging," or "sizing each other up. It is a celebration of a major accomplishment - the completion (or near completion) of four years of hard work and preparation for the next step of your training. At mine, no one belittled any one else. We all celebrated. It was a good time. One of the few that students in their clerkship years get together as a group.

Don't go if you don't want to, it is an entirely personal decision, but people should understand what the match ceremony is and what it is not.

 

[hotbovie1]

I'm sorry, I really dont' understand why MacGyver is so opposed to people knowing where he matched. It's not like you can keep that information secret. All your patients are entitled to know where you trained (though most don't ask) and if you are board certified.

You will presumably go to some conferences in your specialty area and everyone there will know you are a resident at such and such a place. I don't see how any of that is an invasion of privacy.

Heck, the state I'm currently in requires all medical practitioners (MD, DO, PA, NP....) to fill out a form for an on-line regisistry. Your training is a part of that, as well as where you practice. Thats so patients can look you up and make sure you're not a quack. Again, most patients probably don't, but they have a right to know.

Also, I understand there is or will soon be a national data base for lawsuits against you (not sure if it's for lawsuits filed or lawsuits you lose...current docs, perhaps you can shed more light on that)

I also feel bad for MacGyver not wanting to go celebrete key events with his class. My match day ceremony was simply that...we were all excited and happy for one another and all the early match and people who scrambled came. It was a great time...even some of the surgery residents dropped by because they had been advising us surgeons to be through the process and they wanted to celebrate with us (no other residents came!)

 

[neo]

As a doctor, pretty much everything about you is public record. Any crimes right down to simple traffic violations are in your record.

People knowing you applied and where you matched... that's should be the least of your concerns if privacy is an issue with you.

 

[surge]

Originally posted by womansurg
Hmm...I couldn't find myself, and I am licensed.

Umm, actually, you are on there (last name + state). I don't think the interns are, however.



Anyway, I understand where MacGyver's coming from, but the fact of the matter is that it IS and should be a matter of public record where a physician was trained.

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by surge
Umm, actually, you are on there (last name + state). I don't think the interns are, however.

Shoot...I was looking under my name. I shoulda looked under 'womansurg'... 😛

 

[notstudying]

Originally posted by MacGyver
By the way, I skipped my white coat ceremony and also plan on skipping graduation too.

So that really puts this match list thing in perspective.

Actually, it puts you in perspective.

 

[MacGyver]

surge,

you misunderstand me. I dont care if patients find out LATER where I'm in residency or where I got trained.

Obviously I think that should be public record.

However, patients knowning where you went is a far different cry from students knowing. Patients have a right to that information. Nobody else does.

How does releasing names with matchlists help patients? Most patients dont even know what a matchlist is.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by notstudying
Actually, it puts you in perspective.

Oh right. I guess I'll never be able to live with myself for missing such important events.

 

[bonecutter]

I sense a troll! MacGyver is really a HIPAA lawyer out to stifle information exchange and handcuff the medical profession! First charts now match lists, is nothing sacred?😱

Seriously though. If you have something to hide there's always witness protection. Otherwise just try to relax and try to have a little fun with life.

Bonecutter