For those that Didn't Match or didn't receive many interviews

[Czeckers]

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For those that didn't match, I hope you find a way to get to where you want to be...and sooner rather than later. For those who did match with lower numbers of interview offers, congrats!

Is there any advice you are willing to share with the forum. Anything that you would tell us to do or not do. Any aspects of your application and interview season that you would change?

Good luck to all of you in the future.

 

[Slide]

I only received 7 interviews but I matched. If you're uncertain about obtaining interviews when you apply, I would post your stats on SDN and get some opinion of what others think. My mistakes were 1) did not apply broadly enough, since I was from the southeast, 2) needed more research (these days it's becoming more of a requirement), and 3) didn't get a big-wig LOR. Unfortunately it's hard to figure out #3 until you've been in the field for quite some time.

To be honest if you're really uncertain about obtaining interviews and/or deadset at matching at a top-ranked program, don't be afraid to take a year off and do a pre-residency fellowship or research with a big name. After this whole process, it seems like the most important part is getting the interview (the actual interview is more of a formality) and to play the numbers game. Though several places may have 5+ spots open, more often than not a few spots are reserved for candidates from their own home programs, because these programs will know what they are getting with home candidates. Thus, if you feel like you're not a strong candidate, you need to have enough interviews to have a good shot at matching.

 

[Parinaud]

For those that didn't match, I hope you find a way to get to where you want to be...and sooner rather than later. For those who did match with lower numbers of interview offers, congrats!

Is there any advice you are willing to share with the forum. Anything that you would tell us to do or not do. Any aspects of your application and interview season that you would change?

Good luck to all of you in the future.

This is for all the IMG's out there thinking about applying for ophtho. From my experience in this match, it seems extremely difficult to match for FMG's/IMG's, so assess your chances thoroughly before you get disappointed.

This should not discourage the people who have put their heart on ophtho, but I think everybody should know that it will take much more than good stats for an IMG to match. Good luck & all the best, there are people who made it, so if this is your dream don't give up!

 

[speyeder]

This is for all the IMG's out there thinking about applying for ophtho. From my experience in this match, it seems extremely difficult to match for FMG's/IMG's, so assess your chances thoroughly before you get disappointed. Here are my stats:

--Board Scores: Step1: 260+, Step 2CK: 260+, Step 2 CS: pass first time
--AOA and class rank: no AOA at my school, top 10% of class
--Reputation of medical school: Foreign school (Western Europe)
--Research: 1 year basic science research at renowned US institution during medical school, 1 first author, several co-author pubs, 1 ophtho first author book chapter , 2 ophtho co-author pubs pending
--Honors in clerkships: no honors at my school
--# and where you did away rotations: 6 away rotations in the US, all at top institutions, 2 in ophtho, > 1 year USCE
--# of programs you applied to: 40 (geographically limited due to spouse's career)
--Where invited for interviews: 2 (both top 20 programs)
--Where matched: did not match
--Anything that helped your app (not): 2 letters from well known ophthalmology faculty, research experience, US permanent resident (Green Card), extensive US clinical experience, new grad

It might have worked out for me if I would have applied to every existing program, but if matching for ophtho means spending 3-4 years away from your spouse (who is the reason why you relocated to the US) the price seems a little too high for me...

This should not discourage the people who have put their heart on ophtho, but I think everybody should know that it will take much more than good stats for an IMG to match. Good luck & all the best, there are people who made it, so if this is your dream don't give up!

Sorry to hear you did not match. Your credentials are on par with the top tier of U.S. applicants. Are you thinking of re-applying next year?

 

[Parinaud]

Sorry to hear you did not match. Your credentials are on par with the top tier of U.S. applicants. Are you thinking of re-applying next year?

Thanks for your supporting words, that is what I had been told by several ophtho residents and fellow applicants, which made me cautiously optimistic.

But after the very limited success I had with my current application, I doubt that there is anything I could do between now and September to significantly increase my chances.

 

[speyeder]

Thanks for your supporting words, that is what I had been told by several ophtho residents and fellow applicants, which made me cautiously optimistic.

But after the very limited success I had with my current application, I doubt that there is anything I could do between now and September to significantly increase my chances. Board scores, research or US clinical experience weren't an issue and I had strong letters, therefore it seems like the fact that I didn't get my degree from a US medical school is the main problem that kept me from getting an interview at most programs. Since there is no way to change this part of my application, I don't believe it would make much sense for me to re-apply.

Ophthalmology is a wonderful specialty, but with the degree of bias regarding foreign graduates that is apparently present in many programs I'm afraid I have to give up my hopes of becoming an ophthalmologist in the US. This is not supposed to be criticism, just an observation, and I am very happy for all my fellow US applicants who matched and can work in the specialty they love.

I agree that the level of discrimination against FMGs seems excessive. I think it is reasonable to give a slight edge to domestic applicants in the admissions process. But clearly there are highly qualified foreign applicants such as yourself who are deserving of an ophtho spot. I wish you well in your future endeavors.

 

[Ouloplastics]

Thanks for your supporting words, that is what I had been told by several ophtho residents and fellow applicants, which made me cautiously optimistic.

But after the very limited success I had with my current application, I doubt that there is anything I could do between now and September to significantly increase my chances. Board scores, research or US clinical experience weren't an issue and I had strong letters, therefore it seems like the fact that I didn't get my degree from a US medical school is the main problem that kept me from getting an interview at most programs. Since there is no way to change this part of my application, I don't believe it would make much sense for me to re-apply.

Ophthalmology is a wonderful specialty, but with the degree of bias regarding foreign graduates that is apparently present in many programs I'm afraid I have to give up my hopes of becoming an ophthalmologist in the US. This is not supposed to be criticism, just an observation, and I am very happy for all my fellow US applicants who matched and can work in the specialty they love.

Hey sorry to hear your story. I would say if your really bent on ophthalmology , you must try once again. I have seen some FMGs matching before, but all of them had previous residency in thier home country.

 

[LikeAG6]

Sorry to hear about the match. But if ophtho is the only thing for you, then don't give up the fight. This is America after all! I think there are a couple of reasons why IMG's have a more difficult time. First of all there are sooooo many great US grads that are fighting for the competitive specialties. And after having spent 250+ thousand on an American education (undergraduate + med school) it would be unfair in most situations not to grant highly qualified US applicants residency spots. IMGs from most other countries go to medical school usually directly from high school and the education is not nearly as expensive. That being said, it is important to grant individuals from other countries access to US residecies because they are usually very smart and they enhance the quality of the American programs as well as medical care in their respective countries. Every year there are between 20-30 IMGs that match, so don't give up the fight.

 

[EyeGuy15]

I have asked a lot of different residents/attendings in different competitive fields, notably ophtho, and they made many valid points as to why IMGs/FMGs are at a huge disadvantage for matching.

1. Visa status. It seems its costly and just a pain to have to deal with this for programs. Some programs won't even look at your application unless you are a US citizen and it makes sense. Sorting through applications/interviews/ranking etc is a pain as it is and international grads just throw another wrinkle in the process that most programs just don't want to deal with.

2. Step scores. There is a HUGE stigma with foreign grads and step scores. Many foreign medical schools, regardless of it is true, have gotten a reputation of just "teaching towards the boards". This, coupled with the fact that most IMGs/FMGs spend anywhere from 6 months to 1 year to study just for the step 1 makes the ridiculously high scores rather worthless as a gauge of "intelligence". The average US medical student spends anywhere from just a few days after second year to about a month studying for the test simply because US medical schools basically force you too with third year scheduling.

3. Communication skills/social understanding etc. A large part of being a good physician today is about being able to connect and communicate with faculty, colleagues, patients etc. It is just too risky for ophtho programs to make a mistake here because a residents, regardless of how smart they are, who has issues with this can be a huge detriment because residency classes are so small. I have personally witnessed how being less than stellar with English, not understanding how to deal with the many different personality types in the US, etc has caused issues with patient care and becomes a burden for coresidents and attendings.

I know everyone makes the decision to go to different medical schools for different reasons, but if you know for a fact you want to come to the US for residency, just try go to medical school here. It is difficult for a program chair or program director to gauge how prestigious or legitimate a lot of medical schools are around the world. Just too many. A HUGE issue is the increase of medical schools especially in the carribean, puerto rico, mexico, india etc. that, simply put, are built to make money and not make good physicians.

The few IMG/FMG ophtho residents I know matched because they came to the US and did 2+ years of an intensive research fellowship at stellar institions(Mass, Bascom, Columbia etc.) and got phenomenal letters out of it that spoke about everything from their intelligence to their people skills. You HAVE to get letters from HUGE names in ophthalmology. They can't just be "well-known". They pretty much have to be "Big-Wigs". You have a better chance of matching out of a native foreign country, than if you are a US citizen who went overseas. Going to another country to go to medical school is a "red flag" these days and rightfully so.

 

[Parinaud]

I have asked a lot of different residents/attendings in different competitive fields, notably ophtho, and they made many valid points as to why IMGs/FMGs are at a huge disadvantage for matching.

1. Visa status. It seems its costly and just a pain to have to deal with this for programs. Some programs won't even look at your application unless you are a US citizen and it makes sense. Sorting through applications/interviews/ranking etc is a pain as it is and international grads just throw another wrinkle in the process that most programs just don't want to deal with.

2. Step scores. There is a HUGE stigma with foreign grads and step scores. Many foreign medical schools, regardless of it is true, have gotten a reputation of just "teaching towards the boards". This, coupled with the fact that most IMGs/FMGs spend anywhere from 6 months to 1 year to study just for the step 1 makes the ridiculously high scores rather worthless as a gauge of "intelligence". The average US medical student spends anywhere from just a few days after second year to about a month studying for the test simply because US medical schools basically force you too with third year scheduling.

3. Communication skills/social understanding etc. A large part of being a good physician today is about being able to connect and communicate with faculty, colleagues, patients etc. It is just too risky for ophtho programs to make a mistake here because a residents, regardless of how smart they are, who has issues with this can be a huge detriment because residency classes are so small. I have personally witnessed how being less than stellar with English, not understanding how to deal with the many different personality types in the US, etc has caused issues with patient care and becomes a burden for coresidents and attendings.

I know everyone makes the decision to go to different medical schools for different reasons, but if you know for a fact you want to come to the US for residency, just try go to medical school here. It is difficult for a program chair or program director to gauge how prestigious or legitimate a lot of medical schools are around the world. Just too many. A HUGE issue is the increase of medical schools especially in the carribean, puerto rico, mexico, india etc. that, simply put, are built to make money and not make good physicians.

The few IMG/FMG ophtho residents I know matched because they came to the US and did 2+ years of an intensive research fellowship at stellar institions(Mass, Bascom, Columbia etc.) and got phenomenal letters out of it that spoke about everything from their intelligence to their people skills. You HAVE to get letters from HUGE names in ophthalmology. They can't just be "well-known". They pretty much have to be "Big-Wigs". You have a better chance of matching out of a native foreign country, than if you are a US citizen who went overseas. Going to another country to go to medical school is a "red flag" these days and rightfully so.

You make good points and I think this information is very helpful for many foreign applicants. Unfortunately, with the exploding numbers of applications, many programs don't seem to be able to look at them thoroughly enough to sort out the foreign applicants whom these facts don't apply to.

 

[pxon]

I have to speak up for IMGs from western europe countries, where I am from.

There is no teaching towards the boards, and absolutely no teaching towards the USMLE. High scores should be solely attributed
to the individuals high skills, working effort and talent.
Take into account that IMGs from western europe take up alot of struggle if they want to match in the US. We get almost no support from our medical schools, as they are not interested to lose their talents to the US. Those that want to go the path and work in the US usually are very bright hard working individuals fighting for their (american) dream, just like so many have before in history.
Look at each person as an individual and dont base your decision on prejudice, that is actually a reason why people from western europe admire america. Thank you

 

[Czeckers]

I have to speak up for IMGs from western europe countries, where I am from.

There is no teaching towards the boards, and absolutely no teaching towards the USMLE. High scores should be solely attributed
to the individuals high skills, working effort and talent.
Take into account that IMGs from western europe take up alot of struggle if they want to match in the US. We get almost no support from our medical schools, as they are not interested to lose their talents to the US. Those that want to go the path and work in the US usually are very bright hard working individuals fighting for their (american) dream, just like so many have before in history.
Look at each person as an individual and dont base your decision on prejudice, that is actually a reason why people from western europe admire america. Thank you

I dont think it is very easy for a US student to get res in UK either, nor canada for that matter...it goes both ways. Western europeans trying to come to the USA shouldnt be a special case that gets equal chances to match when it doesnt work like that in the other direction.

 

[pxon]

I dont think it is very easy for a US student to get res in UK either, nor canada for that matter...it goes both ways. Western europeans trying to come to the USA shouldnt be a special case that gets equal chances to match when it doesnt work like that in the other direction.

first of all: i know nothing about the chances of us grads to match into canadian or uk residencies.

my intention was to ask that high scores of foreigners shall not be discouraged. there is no teaching towards the boards, there is no bias - unless someone took time off (for a long time) to learn for the usmle - which can be easily distracted from the cv.