Foreign graduate acceptance into post-graduate program.

[the2thdoctor]

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Hello, everyone.

I am a foreign graduate currently licensed and practicing in the USA.

When I moved here several years ago I did so mainly as a consequence of my desire to attend a post-graduate program in my preferred area of expertise. Now I am being told that in order to be accepted into a post-graduate program I need to obtain a degree from a US dental school first. This seems wrong to me on many levels specially when one considers I have already been tested by my state's dental board and been licensed to practice.

Have any of you had any experience with this that you can share ? Is there a recourse for those like me who wish to apply for a residency in a specialty area but don't find it reasonable to commit two years to an international dentist program and an additional $200K in unnecessary educational expenses ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[memes]

Hello, everyone.

I am a foreign graduate currently licensed and practicing in the USA.

When I moved here several years ago I did so mainly as a consequence of my desire to attend a post-graduate program in my preferred area of expertise. Now I am being told that in order to be accepted into a post-graduate program I need to obtain a degree from a US dental school first. This seems wrong to me on many levels specially when one considers I have already been tested by my state's dental board and been licensed to practice.

Have any of you had any experience with this that you can share ? Is there a recourse for those like me who wish to apply for a residency in a specialty area but don't find it reasonable to commit two years to an international dentist program and an additional $200K in unnecessary educational expenses ?

Thanks in advance.

I can't understand what you mean, you are licensed to practice and want to specialise. Your state board tell you that you must go to shcool because your residency is in general practices. This is true, you do not hold US degree so you are not qualified for other residency without dds or dmd.

What state you practicei n now? I think it best to start over if you really want specialty. This is just me but I think it worth it.

 

[DrT2202]

Hello, everyone.

I am a foreign graduate currently licensed and practicing in the USA.

When I moved here several years ago I did so mainly as a consequence of my desire to attend a post-graduate program in my preferred area of expertise. Now I am being told that in order to be accepted into a post-graduate program I need to obtain a degree from a US dental school first. This seems wrong to me on many levels specially when one considers I have already been tested by my state's dental board and been licensed to practice.

Have any of you had any experience with this that you can share ? Is there a recourse for those like me who wish to apply for a residency in a specialty area but don't find it reasonable to commit two years to an international dentist program and an additional $200K in unnecessary educational expenses ?

Thanks in advance.

Some programs will accept FTDs directly, just look well. R u practicing in Minnesota or California?

 

[samanz]

some programs do consider foreign trained dentists but i believe u may have to take nbde part 1 to apply !
U can get the info abt all post graduate/speciality programs in every state and their requirements from ADEA website.

 

[the2thdoctor]

This is true, you do not hold US degree so you are not qualified for other residency without dds or dmd.

What state you practicei n now? I think it best to start over if you really want specialty. This is just me but I think it worth it.

This is my whole point. I disagree with both your statements above. First I am qualified for residency although I don't hold a US degree. The fact that I don't hold a US degree doesn't automatically make me or anyone else less qualified. This is an arrogant and insulting posture adopted by many universities in the US that is aimed at those who graduate outside of the country. It is anti-democratice, unfair and nothing other than an attempt to increase their revenues by forcing foreign graduates to return to school for another 2 years while they collect another $200 K. I have worked with many new grads from US schools in the past several years and can assure you that the quality of the education they currently receive in US dental schools isn't superior to the education I received.

I also don't think it is best to start over. Starting over is synonymous with wasted time. Why should I have to go back to school to do again what I have already done when it would be a lot more productive to invest that same amount of time dedicating myself to the specialty I have chosen ? It makes absolutely no sense.

This is nothing other than turf war and greed.

 

[the2thdoctor]

Some programs will accept FTDs directly, just look well. R u practicing in Minnesota or California?

Samanz,

Yes, I am practicing in California. I have looked but all programs available in the 5 dental schools in California require candidates to have obtained a degree from a US school.

 

[jcdragon13]

Hello, how do you eligible to take the license and practice in California if you dont have an US dental degree? Did you go through advanced standing program? and with that degree it is still not considering a graduate from US dental school? Thank you.

 

[the2thdoctor]

Hello, how do you eligible to take the license and practice in California if you dont have an US dental degree? Did you go through advanced standing program? and with that degree it is still not considering a graduate from US dental school? Thank you.

Licensing requirements have changed. Foreign graduates were allowed in the past to take exams and become licensed in several US states including California. I was able to become licensed before that new regulations went into effect. Today all states require foreign graduates to attend school and some form or another of an international dentist program (in some schools labeled 'advanced standing programs').

As strange as it seems to many of us who are foreign graduates having obtained a degree from a dental school in the US is not enough for one to be granted a license to practice. One must apply for licensure in the individual state where he or she intends to practice.

 

[asd1234]

As strange as it seems to many of us who are foreign graduates having obtained a degree from a dental school in the US is not enough for one to be granted a license to practice. One must apply for licensure in the individual state where he or she intends to practice.

Once you've obtained your D.D.S or D.M.D in the US you are no longer a foreign trained dentist and it is enough to be able to get a license to practice. So, unless one isn't good enough to pass the boards there is no other reason such as being a foreign graduate.

 

[Adversary]

I suspect the2thdoctor came at a time when rules were more lax such that you can apply to continue doing what your profession was, that is, before all the FTD rules came into place. S/he got lucky compared to the hoops FTDs have to go through today. I think s/he would be grateful s/he came at the right time and realize it already was a bit easier. Honestly, I can see how it sucked, but that's the way the game is. Imagine how FTDs nowadays must feel.

Once you've obtained your D.D.S or D.M.D in the US you are no longer a foreign trained dentist and it is enough to be able to get a license to practice. So, unless one isn't good enough to pass the boards there is no other reason such as being a foreign graduate.

 

[the2thdoctor]

Once you've obtained your D.D.S or D.M.D in the US you are no longer a foreign trained dentist and it is enough to be able to get a license to practice. So, unless one isn't good enough to pass the boards there is no other reason such as being a foreign graduate.

In regards to your statements, let me address them individually.

> Once you've obtained your D.D.S or D.M.D in the US you are no longer a foreign trained dentist and it is enough to be able to get a license to practice.

No, it isn't. In most other countries around the world once you obtain a dental degree you are automatically licensed to practice. There is not need to apply for license with the state's dental board as we do here. One would assume that if you have finish dental school and received a degree from a reputable university this would suggest that you have prooved that you are capable to work as a dentist. But this is not what happens. After finishing dental school and obtaining your degree you now have to apply for a license with your state's dental board, spend money in preparation for the exam (as if the school loan debt ranging from $200 K to $400 K in average wasn't already enough) and take exams that involve procedures that were already considered obsolete 15 years ago.

> So, unless one isn't good enough to pass the boards there is no other reason such as being a foreign graduate.

I am not sure I understand the statement above. Would you clarify ?

 

[the2thdoctor]

I suspect the2thdoctor came at a time when rules were more lax such that you can apply to continue doing what your profession was, that is, before all the FTD rules came into place. S/he got lucky compared to the hoops FTDs have to go through today. I think s/he would be grateful s/he came at the right time and realize it already was a bit easier. Honestly, I can see how it sucked, but that's the way the game is. Imagine how FTDs nowadays must feel.

In regards to your statements, let me adress them in sections.

>I suspect the2thdoctor came at a time when rules were more lax such that you can apply to continue doing what your profession was, that is, before all the FTD rules came into place.

Your are right. I was required to take 4 exams and passed them. One of the exams was a bench exam required only from foreign graduates. My scores were higher than those from graduates of US schools although it had been approximately 15 years since I had studied the subjects of the exams.

> S/he got lucky compared to the hoops FTDs have to go through today. I think s/he would be grateful s/he came at the right time and realize it already was a bit easier. Honestly, I can see how it sucked, but that's the way the game is. Imagine how FTDs nowadays must feel.

This is my whole point. It shouldn't be this way. We have an educational system that is severely broken. I have worked and continue to work with new graduates of US schools and am surprised with how deficient their education is nowadays. Why should foreign graduates have to go back to school to earn a US degree in order to apply for specialty training ? There is not a single good reason other than economics. Schools want to increase their revenues and this is how they have chosen to address it.

Every candidate should be evaluated individually and given the recognition he or she deserves. It is wrong to simply assume a candidate's education isn't equivalent to that received in US dental schools. Considering these are academic institutions it is very sad to see that they are sacrificing education, integrity and the democratic principle for money. The greater American gift to the world is that of democracy. America used to be a place where all had equal rights and equal opportunities. It is wrong to discriminate individuals on the basis of their origins without even giving them the opportunity to prove their worth and force them to go back to school for two years and acquire debt in the order $200 K to $250 K just to get a piece of paper that says - OK, now you can apply for specialty training and we will look at you the same way we would at a US graduate.

This is sad and takes away from the integrity of the process. Even more sad when you consider this comes from academic institutions that should be opening minds and leading a new generation of individuals to think progressively so that they can lead us into the future.

 

[Adversary]

I can see you are angry and just venting. It is very simple. This is the way the US chooses to conduct things, whether to protect their own professions from influx and a saturated market or to ensure a certain set of standards they "feel" is needed. You either take it or leave it.

I am Canadian and have worked in the US. I do see some of the hoops as I have to jump through them myself. Some of it is just meaningless paperwork, but it has to be done because that is the system in place and you either do it or leave it. I always thought I was lucky since Dentistry is one of the professions covered by the free trade agreement. Otherwise, I will have to find a US job where the company has to put on hold for 6 months before I can start working. Again, one can see this was put in place to protect jobs for citizens. I can't blame them for that. After all, maybe you are not aware, but both Canadians and Americans value protecting their own citizens first. Haven't you seen all those "Buy American" promotions?

In regards to your statements, let me adress them in sections.

>I suspect the2thdoctor came at a time when rules were more lax such that you can apply to continue doing what your profession was, that is, before all the FTD rules came into place.

Your are right. I was required to take 4 exams and passed them. One of the exams was a bench exam required only from foreign graduates. My scores were higher than those from graduates of US schools although it had been approximately 15 years since I had studied the subjects of the exams.

> S/he got lucky compared to the hoops FTDs have to go through today. I think s/he would be grateful s/he came at the right time and realize it already was a bit easier. Honestly, I can see how it sucked, but that's the way the game is. Imagine how FTDs nowadays must feel.

This is my whole point. It shouldn't be this way. We have an educational system that is severely broken. I have worked and continue to work with new graduates of US schools and am surprised with how deficient their education is nowadays. Why should foreign graduates have to go back to school to earn a US degree in order to apply for specialty training ? There is not a single good reason other than economics. Schools want to increase their revenues and this is how they have chosen to address it.

Every candidate should be evaluated individually and given the recognition he or she deserves. It is wrong to simply assume a candidate's education isn't equivalent to that received in US dental schools. Considering these are academic institutions it is very sad to see that they are sacrificing education, integrity and the democratic principle for money. The greater American gift to the world is that of democracy. America used to be a place where all had equal rights and equal opportunities. It is wrong to discriminate individuals on the basis of their origins without even giving them the opportunity to prove their worth and force them to go back to school for two years and acquire debt in the order $200 K to $250 K just to get a piece of paper that says - OK, now you can apply for specialty training and we will look at you the same way we would at a US graduate.

This is sad and takes away from the integrity of the process. Even more sad when you consider this comes from academic institutions that should be opening minds and leading a new generation of individuals to think progressively so that they can lead us into the future.

 

[asd1234]

In regards to your statements, let me adress them in sections.

>I suspect the2thdoctor came at a time when rules were more lax such that you can apply to continue doing what your profession was, that is, before all the FTD rules came into place.

Your are right. I was required to take 4 exams and passed them. One of the exams was a bench exam required only from foreign graduates. My scores were higher than those from graduates of US schools although it had been approximately 15 years since I had studied the subjects of the exams.

> S/he got lucky compared to the hoops FTDs have to go through today. I think s/he would be grateful s/he came at the right time and realize it already was a bit easier. Honestly, I can see how it sucked, but that's the way the game is. Imagine how FTDs nowadays must feel.

This is my whole point. It shouldn't be this way. We have an educational system that is severely broken. I have worked and continue to work with new graduates of US schools and am surprised with how deficient their education is nowadays. Why should foreign graduates have to go back to school to earn a US degree in order to apply for specialty training ? There is not a single good reason other than economics. Schools want to increase their revenues and this is how they have chosen to address it.

Every candidate should be evaluated individually and given the recognition he or she deserves. It is wrong to simply assume a candidate's education isn't equivalent to that received in US dental schools. Considering these are academic institutions it is very sad to see that they are sacrificing education, integrity and the democratic principle for money. The greater American gift to the world is that of democracy. America used to be a place where all had equal rights and equal opportunities. It is wrong to discriminate individuals on the basis of their origins without even giving them the opportunity to prove their worth and force them to go back to school for two years and acquire debt in the order $200 K to $250 K just to get a piece of paper that says - OK, now you can apply for specialty training and we will look at you the same way we would at a US graduate.

This is sad and takes away from the integrity of the process. Even more sad when you consider this comes from academic institutions that should be opening minds and leading a new generation of individuals to think progressively so that they can lead us into the future.

First of all when you took your 4 exams you were given a D.D.S and license to practice in California. At that time also you could have taken 2 years of school and become a specialist. I know this is true because both my parents took this route. You should have taken advantage of this 2 years of school for specialization only when you had the chance. I don't understand now why are you complaining about taking an extra 2 years for Advanced Standing when clearly it is your fault for not doing it sooner? Yes now you will have to take 2 years Advanced Standing then 2 or more or specialty, but in the end if you really want to be a specialist you will be. I think its better you stop complaining and see that at least you are licensed to practice dentistry in California. There are programs for licensed dentists to do some specialization outside of a 2 year program but you do limited work. Do some research.
Oh and I just read your line about taking your exams 15 years ago. Well the rules changed around 2003, so you had enough time to take advantage of only going to a specialty program right after your exam. So, if you didn't know that things would have changed then imagine now things can also change so start doing what you have to before they change again.