Former neuroscience student, primary suspect in Aurora shootings.

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MaenadsDance said:
I agree with Starlightembers, one of my quick methods of judging someone's character is whether they will casually joke about (or express support of) the epidemic of sexual assault in prisons. It's nauseating, particularly as a survivor, to hear people joking about it. If we're going to support the 2nd amendment, we have to support the eighth amendment too.
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I agree with this, as one might assume; someone expressing support and/or joking about sexual violence in prisons -- or anywhere, for that matter, given the vast amount of rape jokes and comments that cover all forms of assault -- immediately signals a red flag in my mind about someone's character. I, too, am a survivor of sexual violence and the comments make me feel physically ill. It brings me directly back to the reactions of people after I reported my abuser; reactions full of doubt and victim blaming. Rape is never acceptable; it is always a heinous crime; it is never to be used to 'punish' someone; nobody deserves to be raped, no matter what they have done; no rapist deserves to be told his behavior is acceptable, no matter who he is victimizing; and, until this attitude is realized, progress cannot be made. The bottom line is that prisoners, no matter what their background, have -- as it should be -- a right to the same protections as other citizens, including the protection from such a horrific crime and, as MaenadsDance noted, the protection from cruel and unusual punishment (and if you want to try to argue that rape is not cruel and unusual, please talk to any survivor).

SoonerFromTexas said:
I would never try and make a confrontation. How practical is it to wake up, grab a phone, run up stairs and lock your strangely strong doors? Also consider that you will probably have seconds to react, your children might be between you and the intruder, and the intruder might be between you and any exit. The ideal situation for me would be to run into a room with a lock and call the police, but have my firearm within reach in-case the intruder don't just want to take a few things.

I am not saying you shouldn't have the right to "protect" yourself that way. I just want the right to protect myself the way I think will actually work.
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As has already been pointed out throughout this thread, there are significant and undeniable holes in the argument of self-defense. Namely:

  • While everyone is entitled to thinking something or holding an opinion, one is not, as the old saying goes, entitled to their own facts and the facts tell us that a gun in the home is far more likely to be fired in acts of suicide*, accidental shootings and homicides than in self-defense; that having a gun in the home increases, rather than decreases, the risk of falling victim to a homicide; and other countries with stronger gun laws have less gun violence.
The fact of the matter is that, at the end of the day, owning a gun does not make you safer, no matter if one "thinks" it will work or not. While you may be more able to defend yourself on the rare chance that your hypothetical situation occurs, in the long run, the risk of gun-related death will go up.


In addition, though I believe this conversation is important to have, the chance of guns being banned is slim to none and there are laws that could be put in place besides banning all guns that would have prevented this. Such as, for example, tracking the guns that each person buys, so that, when people collect mass amount of guns, authorities can be alerted. And so on.



On the other side of this, it is also important to point out that someone in that theater having a gun would not have likely helped. If anything, attempting to use a gun in such an intense, high-stress, disoriented situation would have only resulted in more injuries.
 
This guy will get th best punishment possible, life in low security, gang infested prison. He won't last, the kid was smart, but not tough at all (or maybe we don't know)
 
Starlightembers said:
In addition, though I believe this conversation is important to have, the chance of guns being banned is slim to none and there are laws that could be put in place besides banning all guns that would have prevented this. Such as, for example, tracking the guns that each person buys, so that, when people collect mass amount of guns, authorities can be alerted. And so on.
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The government requires FFL dealers to keep a record of gun sales. I have heard of people buying two guns at once that had to talk to the ATF about it. The government doesn't do the work and keep a record themselves, but they can access the info via the dealers.
 
Samiamm said:
This guy will get th best punishment possible, life in low security, gang infested prison. He won't last, the kid was smart, but not tough at all (or maybe we don't know)
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apparently he has been spitting on the other inmates and is now in solitary cause he has been on the offensive against them.
 
mohad said:
apparently he has been spitting on the other inmates and is now in solitary cause he has been on the offensive against them.
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he must have seem his share of "locked up", "lock down", etc. episodes...best tactic for the peeps afraid of gen.pop. is to get into ad seg/solitaire asap.
 
HoltMD said:
It's probably not URMs that you hate but the fact that they have a bigger......😀
Click to expand...


Well... this isn't entirely unfounded. You ARE pre-meds and everyone knows the correlation between wang size and an MD acceptance:


AAMCMDACCEPTx_Penis.gif




Sources:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/
www.humanforsale.com/penis-size.asp


For anyone interested, the fit is almost perfect with an r^2 of 0.99946 when the formula below is applied to your personal organ:

Chance_At_Acceptance = 0.4506 * Penis_Size - 2.1817
 
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Starlightembers said:
I agree with this, as one might assume; someone expressing support and/or joking about sexual violence in prisons -- or anywhere, for that matter, given the vast amount of rape jokes and comments that cover all forms of assault -- immediately signals a red flag in my mind about someone's character. I, too, am a survivor of sexual violence and the comments make me feel physically ill. It brings me directly back to the reactions of people after I reported my abuser; reactions full of doubt and victim blaming. Rape is never acceptable; it is always a heinous crime; it is never to be used to 'punish' someone; nobody deserves to be raped, no matter what they have done; no rapist deserves to be told his behavior is acceptable, no matter who he is victimizing; and, until this attitude is realized, progress cannot be made. The bottom line is that prisoners, no matter what their background, have -- as it should be -- a right to the same protections as other citizens, including the protection from such a horrific crime and, as MaenadsDance noted, the protection from cruel and unusual punishment (and if you want to try to argue that rape is not cruel and unusual, please talk to any survivor).



As has already been pointed out throughout this thread, there are significant and undeniable holes in the argument of self-defense. Namely:

  • While everyone is entitled to thinking something or holding an opinion, one is not, as the old saying goes, entitled to their own facts and the facts tell us that a gun in the home is far more likely to be fired in acts of suicide*, accidental shootings and homicides than in self-defense; that having a gun in the home increases, rather than decreases, the risk of falling victim to a homicide; and other countries with stronger gun laws have less gun violence.
The fact of the matter is that, at the end of the day, owning a gun does not make you safer, no matter if one "thinks" it will work or not. While you may be more able to defend yourself on the rare chance that your hypothetical situation occurs, in the long run, the risk of gun-related death will go up.


In addition, though I believe this conversation is important to have, the chance of guns being banned is slim to none and there are laws that could be put in place besides banning all guns that would have prevented this. Such as, for example, tracking the guns that each person buys, so that, when people collect mass amount of guns, authorities can be alerted. And so on.



On the other side of this, it is also important to point out that someone in that theater having a gun would not have likely helped. If anything, attempting to use a gun in such an intense, high-stress, disoriented situation would have only resulted in more injuries.
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It troubles me that there are actually people expressing concerns for this guy.
 
tn4596 said:
It troubles me that there are actually people expressing concerns for this guy.
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Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.

I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
There is a human element here.
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sorry, no. guy is a complete nut. he wanna be the joker and disregard human lives as if he is in a movie. actually, arguing about what he deserve or doesn't deserve here doesnt solve anything. the fact is that in those few years that he will be waiting for his sentence, he is going to get some from his fellow inmates. either the guards will look away or they wouldnt be able to protect him at all time.

punkedoutriffs said:
my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
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"some men just want to watch the world burn"
 
tn4596 said:
sorry, no. guy is a complete nut. he wanna be the joker and disregard human lives as if he is in a movie. actually, arguing about what he deserve or doesn't deserve here doesnt solve anything. the fact is that in those few years that he will be waiting for his sentence, he is going to get some from his fellow inmates. either the guards will look away or they wouldnt be able to protect him at all time.

"some men just want to watch the world burn"
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Yea, I agree, the similarities between this guy and the Joker are pretty striking, and you remember why The Joker was so provocative in The Dark Knight right? It was because his character was believable. In a weird way, you got the feeling that there was some trace of sense in his philosophy and motivations. I bet if we had an omniscient point of view on this shooter's life, we wouldn't be as stand-offish as we are now.
 
Yonko Shanks said:
So, If someone were to kill your whole family, you would be ok with him just going to jail? Your tax money will be paying for his meals..
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our tax money pays for a ton of serial killer meals. The best punishment IMO is life in solitary confinement. He doesn't deserve for death to save him- he should rot in a cell in the darkness with no human contact until the day his cells give out.

Lookup Blue Dolphin- its a famous maximum security russian prison. Thats the kind of system we need in the United States
 
Hemorrage said:
our tax money pays for a ton of serial killer meals. The best punishment IMO is life in solitary confinement. He doesn't deserve for death to save him- he should rot in a cell in the darkness with no human contact until the day his cells give out.

Lookup the prison called Blue Dolphin- its a famous maximum security russian prison. Thats the kind of system we need in the United States
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Honestly, why should we be paying for his meals? If we can be 100% proof positive that someone has committed this sort of crime (and I doubt we can be much more 100% positive than with this guy), why should he retain any human rights? Shouldn't those be out the window the moment you deprive someone else of theirs? It's an eye for an eye. That seems reasonable to me if we can be 100% perfectly sure that a person was, in fact, guilty. In that case, let him starve in a dark cell somewhere and then sell of his property to help compensate the victims. One could go a step further and say he is community property at that point, but that seems a bit much....
 
Hemorrage said:
our <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">tax</a> money pays for a ton of serial killer meals. The best punishment IMO is life in solitary confinement. He doesn't deserve for death to save him- he should rot in a cell in the darkness with no human contact until the day his cells give out.

Lookup Blue Dolphin- its a famous maximum <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">security</a> russian prison. Thats the kind of system we need in the United States
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It's Black Dolphin but yeah it's pretty tough...here's a short video on it:

http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russias-toughest-prisons/videos/black-dolphin-prison

I like the lieutenant's take on the prisoners there:

"To call them people, it makes your tongue bend backwards just to say it."
 
music2doc said:
Honestly, why should we be paying for his meals? If we can be 100% proof positive that someone has committed this sort of crime (and I doubt we can be much more 100% positive than with this guy), why should he retain any human rights? Shouldn't those be out the window the moment you deprive someone else of theirs? It's an eye for an eye. That seems reasonable to me if we can be 100% perfectly sure that a person was, in fact, guilty. In that case, let him starve in a dark cell somewhere and then sell of his property to help compensate the victims. One could go a step further and say he is community property at that point, but that seems a bit much....
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it wouldnt work because many humane societies would rather waste tax money. it is hard to fathom that a mass murderer get to die as expensively and peacefully as possible while our soldiers get shot to death and blown to bits.
 
music2doc said:
Honestly, why should we be paying for his meals? If we can be 100% proof positive that someone has committed this sort of crime (and I doubt we can be much more 100% positive than with this guy), why should he retain any human rights? Shouldn't those be out the window the moment you deprive someone else of theirs? It's an eye for an eye. That seems reasonable to me if we can be 100% perfectly sure that a person was, in fact, guilty. In that case, let him starve in a dark cell somewhere and then sell of his property to help compensate the victims. One could go a step further and say he is community property at that point, but that seems a bit much....
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i agree, he shouldn't have any rights but you don't get what im saying. The best punishment isn't death, its a lifelong suffering for your crimes. Theres nothing more brutal in this life then the thought of absolutely no human/nature interaction for the rest of your life.
 
tn4596 said:
it wouldnt work because many humane societies would rather waste tax money. it is hard to fathom that a mass murderer get to die as expensively and peacefully as possible while our soldiers get shot to death and blown to bits.
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I know.... It's unfortunate. Honestly, the primary reason I see for giving these people dignity after they take someone else's life (and dignity) is the possibility of their innocence. If that can be completely disproven, it seems that the natural consequence be to lose their own lives and dignity. Unfortunately, there are people out there who are more focused on their idealism than on reality. They miss the action because they are too busy in their ivory towers figuring out "how the world ought to work."
 
Hemorrage said:
i agree, he shouldn't have any rights but you don't get what im saying. The best punishment isn't death, its a lifelong suffering for your crimes. Theres nothing more brutal in this life then the thought of absolutely no human/nature interaction for the rest of your life.
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True, but that requires additional resources. Why expend additional resources on this animal? Toss him a shallow grave (still alive but trapped) and let his corpse fertilize the earth or something.... There is no point in feeding him and keeping him alive to suffer for years and years when an awful death would do the trick (albeit more quickly) for far less expense.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.

I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
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Your post just seriously angered me, but I'll wait for someone else to argue with you because I'm just pissed. That was unbelievable.
 
I think it is even more important than ever to make sure that the rights of those who commit heinous crimes are upheld. If a right is only upheld for the innocent (and who determines innocence?) it is not truly a right - it is merely something which society deigns to grant people for as long as they remain on the right side of some thin line in the sand.

Hence murderers deserve due process, they deserve not to be tortured (including sexually), they deserve a fair trial and fair treatment.


And on completely pragmatic grounds, anyone who thinks the death penalty is either justly or wisely applied in the US is uneducated, no two ways about it.
 
MaenadsDance said:
I think it is even more important than ever to make sure that the rights of those who commit heinous crimes are upheld. If a right is only upheld for the innocent (and who determines innocence?) it is not truly a right - it is merely something which society deigns to grant people for as long as they remain on the right side of some thin line in the sand.

Hence murderers deserve due process, they deserve not to be tortured (including sexually), they deserve a fair trial and fair treatment.


And on completely pragmatic grounds, anyone who thinks the death penalty is either justly or wisely applied in the US is uneducated, no two ways about it.
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A fair trial and fair treatment? ABSOLUTELY!


fair 1 (f&#603;&#60😉 &#8212; adj 1. free from discrimination, dishonesty, etc; just; impartial
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just

1 &#8194; &#8194;[juhst] Show IPA
adjective 1. guided by truth, reason, justice, and fairness: We hope to be just in our understanding of such difficult situations.

2. done or made according to principle; equitable; proper: a just reply.

3. based on right; rightful; lawful: a just claim.

4. in keeping with truth or fact; true; correct: a just analysis.

5. given or awarded rightly; deserved, as a sentence, punishment, or reward: a just penalty.
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These definitions seem to indicate fair treatment would imply a fitting punishment for the crime. If I commit a theft, I should have to repay what I stole plus any further damages done (e.g., court fees, psychological damages to my victims, etc.). Likewise, if a person commits a crime such as murder ("the stealing of a life"), his life, also, should be taken. His crime is against both the victim(s) and society. He ought to pay both back in full.
 
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punkedoutriffs said:
Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.
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lol so what if he was black and poor it'd be different? What a great argument he's just like me (except for the whole crazy shooting 50 people thing) so we should be sympathetic to him!

Who care's if he's not in his right mind? Is any mass murderer in their "right mind" when compared to a normal non-mass murdering person? I don't really care if he was beaten every day when he was a kid and abused by his uncle.

Yea, I agree, the similarities between this guy and the Joker are pretty striking, and you remember why The Joker was so provocative in The Dark Knight right? It was because his character was believable. In a weird way, you got the feeling that there was some trace of sense in his philosophy and motivations. I bet if we had an omniscient point of view on this shooter's life, we wouldn't be as stand-offish as we are now.
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And I'm not sure where you're coming up with this Joker philosophy. I'd say your idea is ridiculous and the reason the joker was so provocative is because he just didn't give a f*ck (apparently like this guy). He is completely unpredictable because the Joker has no background to analyze and no sense of what crazy **** he'll do next. Most "villains" have some reasoning or philosophy behind what they're doing, either grabs for power, trying to stay in power or trying to make the world adhere to their viewpoint. If you want someone with some "philosophy" behind their actions in that movie try Two-Face. The Joker's viewpoint was "blow everything up and laugh".

I feel like a douche arguing about a batman movie but that idea is so ridiculous I wouldn't want anyone else to think it actually made sense.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.

I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
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wow dude, you're saying his actions were ok because he was white, educated, and intelligent... Maybe if I'm lucky a white, educated, and intelligent man decides to shoot me and then it will be ok..
 
Blais said:
Whenever I see you responses to anything URM...well, I don't think a more penis-size-obsessed person has ever graced this board. :banana:
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You should try it. 🙄
 
music2doc said:
Well... this isn't entirely unfounded. You ARE pre-meds and everyone knows the correlation between wang size and an MD acceptance:


AAMCMDACCEPTx_Penis.gif




Sources:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/
www.humanforsale.com/penis-size.asp


For anyone interested, the fit is almost perfect with an r^2 of 0.99946 when the formula below is applied to your personal organ:

Chance_At_Acceptance = 0.4506 * Penis_Size - 2.1817
Click to expand...


Your graph does not include "big." It ends at 7.5", that's average.😀
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.

I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
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I Like your comment. I found behaviors like this fascinating. But it's a horrible tragedy, nevertheless, that innocent people perished at the hands of this man.
 
MaenadsDance said:
I think it is even more important than ever to make sure that the rights of those who commit heinous crimes are upheld. If a right is only upheld for the innocent (and who determines innocence?) it is not truly a right - it is merely something which society deigns to grant people for as long as they remain on the right side of some thin line in the sand.

Hence murderers deserve due process, they deserve not to be tortured (including sexually), they deserve a fair trial and fair treatment.


And on completely pragmatic grounds, anyone who thinks the death penalty is either justly or wisely applied in the US is uneducated, no two ways about it.
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Who determines innocence?? This man is NOT innocent in any sense of the word. But either way, he will have due process and a fair trial. He will, of course, be promptly convicted, but it will be fair.

I'm happy you can be so idealistic about this situation.
 
We don't know whether this man was schizophrenic or otherwise psychotic or delusional. That's one mitigating factor in murders like these.

But even aside from that, I am a firm believer that people do not stop being human just because they do terrible things, and this has a number of implications for me (in general I'm anti-death penalty and anti-war -- I don't do a very good job being consistent with any of these ideals, but I try.)

And thanks for calling me an idealist, it's what I aspire to.
 
Dave89 said:
It sounds like you should be entering a slightly older profession than medicine.
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Why is that doctor? Because I like sex and obviously to you if a girl likes sex, she's a prostitute? You must be a republican. :meanie:
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Well, despite everything, he is still a human being. Moreover, he is white, middle class, intelligent, and university educated. On paper he is, I imagine, quite similar to many of us on this board. Yes, this fellow's crime was horrendous, and I do not advocate that we grant him clemency, but I think one of the things that we ought to think and discuss more about is what would lead a guy to a point where he would do something like this.

I mean, just imagine, who in their right minds would willfully choose to be in the position to essentially find joy and motivation in staging such a killing spree? His family is not insane or dysfunction, as far as we know. So he probably wasn't always this way. I feel that this attitude of "Oh, he's a psycho, let's gut him" is a dehumanizing and cheap write-off. It doesn't explain anything. These victims and families weren't hit by a natural disaster. There is a human element here.

Personally, I think that people who are able to execute something that requires this level of planning and premeditation must be incredibly motivated, and my bet is that the motivation derives from a lot of personal pain and suffering--whatever the source of that may be.
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Exactly! I find that the info revealed at the press conferences, news, and accounts of the eye-witnesses just don't seem to align with each other. Chief Oates expresses with great confidence that Holmes is the sole suspect in this case, whereas many witnesss have confirmed that they indeed saw a second individual assisting Holmes in gaining entry to the theatre.

One of the same witnesses who was sitting up front described the fully covered man to stand at 5'8 - 5'9 in height. He's 6'3 for heaven's sake. I may believe someone rough estimating 2-3 inches to err, but not a whole half-foot.

I just feel the public is intentionally being severely mislead about this case. I mean c'mon now...no one has even seen the actual guy, neither the victims during shooting, nor the prisoners in jail (They say he had his face covered with a towel as they locked him up and covered the small window panel with duct tape 😕😕), he's in confinement so interaction with inmates or anyone isn't possible, no mug shots since the incident, only an undated photo of the guy. These are just some of the many reasons why I'm not buying this bull****.

I think the event is a way to distract the nation and act as a pretext to a coming politically-motivated decision in the near future. Like say, you know, how Bush lead the country to the middle-eastern conflict concluding 9/11 :whistle:

Needless to say, it is a very inhumane act committed by whichever individual(s) or group was involved, and my heart and deepest condolences go out to the victims and their loved ones.
 
This thread is really disheartening on so many levels. From everything I have read about this man and his crime, it is very likely he is mentally ill. While I do hope this man is locked up for the rest of his life, so he can not hurt another human being, I do hope for the sake of future patients that most of you in this thread are not considering psychiatry.
 
HoltMD said:
Why is that doctor? Because I like sex and obviously to you if a girl likes sex, she's a prostitute? You must be a republican. :meanie:
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Men who are resentful of women usually have been repeatedly rejected by them.
 
venomous11 said:
Exactly! I find that the info revealed at the press conferences, news, and accounts of the eye-witnesses just don't seem to align with each other. Chief Oates expresses with great confidence that Holmes is the sole suspect in this case, whereas many witnesss have confirmed that they indeed saw a second individual assisting Holmes in gaining entry to the theatre.

One of the same witnesses who was sitting up front described the fully covered man to stand at 5'8 - 5'9 in height. He's 6'3 for heaven's sake. I may believe someone rough estimating 2-3 inches to err, but not a whole half-foot.

I just feel the public is intentionally being severely mislead about this case. I mean c'mon now...no one has even seen the actual guy, neither the victims during shooting, nor the prisoners in jail (They say he had his face covered with a towel as they locked him up and covered the small window panel with duct tape 😕😕), he's in confinement so interaction with inmates or anyone isn't possible, no mug shots since the incident, only an undated photo of the guy. These are just some of the many reasons why I'm not buying this bull****.

I think the event is a way to distract the nation and act as a pretext to a coming politically-motivated decision in the near future. Like say, you know, how Bush lead the country to the middle-eastern conflict concluding 9/11 :whistle:

Needless to say, it is a very inhumane act committed by whichever individual(s) or group was involved, and my heart and deepest condolences go out to the victims and their loved ones.
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Keep that tin-foil hat on tight wouldn't want the CIA shining their mind control beams in there either.

They probably put a towel on his face 1) To keep him from spitting at people anymore and 2) To keep him from instigating anything with the other prisoners as he walked by that would make them want to kill him anymore than they do right now. They covered the window for the same reason...think about it. If other inmates could see the window that means they could look in or he could look out at them and do something to piss them off. They're trying to keep him from getting shanked before Monday.

Your height idea is ridiculous. Accurately being able to recall someone's height is probably that last thing on anyone's mind while being shot at through smoke. I don't care if the dude said he was a midget, I'm probably not gonna trust his memory.

Ever occur to you that HE could have been the one that opened the emergency exit? I don't get why you think he needs an accomplice. Go prop open the exit, duck outside and grab your stash from behind the dumpster, throw it on and walk back in. You could even stick something to the door to make sure nobody could just kick it closed.
 
MaenadsDance said:
We don't know whether this man was schizophrenic or otherwise psychotic or delusional. That's one mitigating factor in murders like these.

But even aside from that, I am a firm believer that people do not stop being human just because they do terrible things, and this has a number of implications for me (in general I'm anti-death penalty and anti-war -- I don't do a very good job being consistent with any of these ideals, but I try.)

And thanks for calling me an idealist, it's what I aspire to.
Click to expand...

Thank you, MaenadasDance. I absolutely agree with everything you have written.

I am genuinely concerned at the turn this thread has taken. The attitudes expressed here demanding for him to have his constitutional rights and status as a human being stripped in the wake of his crimes are, in my opinion, deeply disturbing.

No matter the circumstances, you are still talking about a human being: a living, thinking, perceiving and feeling human being. A person who has -- and, by all accounts, likely still is -- loved by those close to him; a person who can experience pain, indignity, illness, happiness and pride; and a person who has many shared experiences with other equally human people. Though his crimes are heinous and he most certainly needs to held responsible for them, they do not, cannot, change this fundamental fact, even if many would rather it did.

He is, furthermore, also a citizen of the United States of America and, as a consequence, he is entitled to the same Constitutional rights guaranteed to all citizens. This includes, among others, the right to be protected from cruel and unusual punishment, of which starvation, sexual violence and other acts advocated here are. If we allowed exceptions to be made to these rights, the floodgates would open for a whole slew of maltreatment, exploitation and other undesirable consequences. Thus, it is our officials' duty to hold firm to what is written in those founding documents. For those that find this problematic, you are free to begin advocating that our Constitution be repealed or otherwise made irrelevant.

Ultimately, I stand firmly to the philosophy that all humans deserve basic respect/decency, compassion and aid. I stand firmly to the ideal that we should apply that philosophy to each human, no matter how saintly or evil they may appear to us. I stand firmly to the reality that we dehumanize those who commit atrocities as to separate ourselves from them for the purpose of psychological defense and that, though a natural reaction, it must be combated at all costs; as, once you dehumanize a person, you become capable of the same atrocities. Perhaps that makes me idealistic or naive in the eyes of most people; however, it is a worldview I will never be ashamed to share or, if need be, fund through my tax dollars.
 
Last edited:
HoltMD said:
Why is that doctor? Because I like sex and obviously to you if a girl likes sex, she's a prostitute? You must be a republican. :meanie:
Click to expand...

MuAgonist said:
Depends on race. 😉
Click to expand...

MuAgonist said:
Men who are resentful of women usually have been repeatedly rejected by them.
Click to expand...

I think if a girl's almost every post on SDN has to do with member size, yes, there's a good four-letter word for her.

And I don't resent HoltMD at all. Matter of fact, I'm looking for some new kneepads (for my ice hockey season). I'm sure HoltMD has some useful suggestions...
 
Starlightembers said:
Thank you, MaenadasDance. I absolutely agree with everything you have written.

I am genuinely concerned at the turn this thread has taken. The attitudes expressed here demanding for him to have his constitutional rights and status as a human being stripped in the wake of his crimes are, in my opinion, deeply disturbing.

No matter the circumstances, you are still talking about a human being: a living, thinking, perceiving and feeling human being. A person who has -- and, by all accounts, likely still is -- loved by those close to him; a person who can experience pain, indignity, illness, happiness and pride; and a person who has many shared experiences with other equally human people. Though his crimes are heinous and he most certainly needs to held responsible for them, they do not, cannot, change this fundamental fact, even if many would rather it did.

He is, furthermore, also a citizen of the United States of America and, as a consequence, he is entitled to the same Constitutional rights guaranteed to all citizens. This includes, among others, the right to be protected from cruel and unusual punishment, of which starvation, sexual violence and other acts advocated here are. If we allowed exceptions to be made to these rights, the floodgates would open for a whole slew of maltreatment, exploitation and other undesirable consequences. Thus, it is our officials' duty to hold firm to what is written in those founding documents. For those that find this problematic, you are free to begin advocating that our Constitution be repealed or otherwise made irrelevant.

Ultimately, I stand firmly to the philosophy that all humans deserve basic respect/decency, compassion and aid. I stand firmly to the ideal that we should apply that philosophy to each human, no matter how saintly or evil they may appear to us. I stand firmly to the reality that we dehumanize those who commit atrocities as to separate ourselves from them for the purpose of psychological defense and that, though a natural reaction, it must be combated at all costs; as, once you dehumanize a person, you become capable of the same atrocities. Perhaps that makes me idealistic or naive in the eyes of most people; however, it is a worldview I will never be ashamed to share or, if need be, fund through my tax dollars.
Click to expand...

I concur, I'm always intrigued by this kind of behaviors... an outlier... I wonder what push him to do such atrocity... What was his thought process?
 
yeah so those shootings sure did suck, right?

(jesus.... lets get off the penis talk....)
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Keep that tin-foil hat on tight wouldn't want the CIA shining their mind control beams in there either.

They probably put a towel on his face 1) To keep him from spitting at people anymore and 2) To keep him from instigating anything with the other prisoners as he walked by that would make them want to kill him anymore than they do right now. They covered the window for the same reason...think about it. If other inmates could see the window that means they could look in or he could look out at them and do something to piss them off. They're trying to keep him from getting shanked before Monday.

Your height idea is ridiculous. Accurately being able to recall someone's height is probably that last thing on anyone's mind while being shot at through smoke. I don't care if the dude said he was a midget, I'm probably not gonna trust his memory.

Ever occur to you that HE could have been the one that opened the emergency exit? I don't get why you think he needs an accomplice. Go prop open the exit, duck outside and grab your stash from behind the dumpster, throw it on and walk back in. You could even stick something to the door to make sure nobody could just kick it closed.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, I'm not trying to wipe his *** clean from what he may have done. I guess what I'm trying to point out amongst all the remarks going on is to not be caught up in all the superficial details and reach conclusions from there.

My assumption is that if the guy was able to get inside and prop the door open for himself then i.d the guy would be a no-brainer. Several victims acclaimed that the one guy received and picked up a call, went toward the exit, and propped the door with his foot when the gunman walked in. Don't you think after the released image of the suspect, many of the victims would have atleast altered their testimonies and atleast state "HE" went out and came back in fully armored..blah blah???

Anyway..I'd love to see the live/recorded court hearing for this guy and see what he adds to the case.
 
Starlightembers said:
Thank you, MaenadasDance. I absolutely agree with everything you have written.

I am genuinely concerned at the turn this thread has taken. The attitudes expressed here demanding for him to have his constitutional rights and status as a human being stripped in the wake of his crimes are, in my opinion, deeply disturbing.

No matter the circumstances, you are still talking about a human being: a living, thinking, perceiving and feeling human being. A person who has -- and, by all accounts, likely still is -- loved by those close to him; a person who can experience pain, indignity, illness, happiness and pride; and a person who has many shared experiences with other equally human people. Though his crimes are heinous and he most certainly needs to held responsible for them, they do not, cannot, change this fundamental fact, even if many would rather it did.

He is, furthermore, also a citizen of the United States of America and, as a consequence, he is entitled to the same Constitutional rights guaranteed to all citizens. This includes, among others, the right to be protected from cruel and unusual punishment, of which starvation, sexual violence and other acts advocated here are. If we allowed exceptions to be made to these rights, the floodgates would open for a whole slew of maltreatment, exploitation and other undesirable consequences. Thus, it is our officials' duty to hold firm to what is written in those founding documents. For those that find this problematic, you are free to begin advocating that our Constitution be repealed or otherwise made irrelevant.

Ultimately, I stand firmly to the philosophy that all humans deserve basic respect/decency, compassion and aid. I stand firmly to the ideal that we should apply that philosophy to each human, no matter how saintly or evil they may appear to us. I stand firmly to the reality that we dehumanize those who commit atrocities as to separate ourselves from them for the purpose of psychological defense and that, though a natural reaction, it must be combated at all costs; as, once you dehumanize a person, you become capable of the same atrocities. Perhaps that makes me idealistic or naive in the eyes of most people; however, it is a worldview I will never be ashamed to share or, if need be, fund through my tax dollars.
Click to expand...

You are a shot of serotonin in an ocean of dopamine.

Or something 😉
 
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