FP vs. Surgery

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lilybriscoe

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Greetings. I posted this yesterday on the surgery website. I would love to have a FP perspective now..
(I am currently a 3rd year student)

So I love FP and Surgery and the advice I keep getting is "If you like anything other than surgery, do it." I fear I'll be missing out on an incredible residency experience, though, if I don't do gen surg (all of my surgery rotations have taught me an amazing amount). What I want to do most w/my life is international health, with a group such as Doctors Without Borders. I would love to be able to take care of almost any problem in a rural/underserved setting.
Thanks for your advice.
 
Do surgery. You can always do FP if you don't like surgery. Worse yet, you can do GP if you don't like surgery. Look into Docs without Borders. Surgeons do a lot of humanitarian/international work. In fact, Docs without Borders allow surgeons to take on shorter term assignments.

You have plenty of time to decide, quite honestly. So use your 4th year to make that decision.
 
Wow. I would imagine that there are few specialties less alike than Surgery and FP, no?

Keep in mind that in international development, there is still a huge call for primary care physicians, even in crisis organizations like MSF. Even more so in non-"crisis-based" organizations. Good luck...
 
lilybriscoe said:
Greetings. I posted this yesterday on the surgery website. I would love to have a FP perspective now..
(I am currently a 3rd year student)

So I love FP and Surgery and the advice I keep getting is "If you like anything other than surgery, do it." I fear I'll be missing out on an incredible residency experience, though, if I don't do gen surg (all of my surgery rotations have taught me an amazing amount). What I want to do most w/my life is international health, with a group such as Doctors Without Borders. I would love to be able to take care of almost any problem in a rural/underserved setting.
Thanks for your advice.

I agree - FP is wide open (relatively) right now while surgery is competitive. If you hate surgery it will be easy to move to FP, a large percentage of surgery residents leave surgery.

I think there's more a need in the developing world for surgery type help - think of all those appys and choles that need to be done, whereas a URI, well, won't that just go away on its own..

I think ID would be good too for the developing world - all that malaria and HIV out there...
 
can you really go from being a surgeon to working in family practice? dont you have to go through another residency?? you wouldnt be board certified in fp. and if you were doing fp for a while after you were a surgeon, would you be allowed to do surgery as a board certified surgeon anymore?? seems crazy...
 
Agree. Many move out of surgery into something else. In order to be a board certified FP, you need to go through FP residency and take the board. In order to be just a GP, however, you simply need to pass Step 3 and have an unrestricted license. Which means that ANYONE can be a GP, pretty much, even an 90 year old pathologist. So all else fails, you can always do GP (I wouldn't, but whatever).

Being able to do "surgery" will be a function of hospital privileges and malpractice premiums. Malpractice differs if you do no surgery, "Minor Surgery", "Major Surgery". And hospital privileges will depend on local conditions, politics or otherwise. You can always do procedures in your office if hospitals deny you privileges, but that'll depend on your training and threshold for bad outcomes.

Honestly, FP and Surgery are SO different in every aspect that when it comes time for you to make a choice, your choice will be very obvious to you.
 
you could also do one of the ultra-competitive unopposed fp programs like ventura county where the residents do all the trauma and are trained to do c-sections and uncomplicated appys. that kind of background + an mph would probably be the best all around background for intl medicine.
emergency med also would be a good pathway and you can do an intl health fellowship from em:
International Emergency Medicine


California


Loma Linda University
Tamara L. Thomas, MD
Loma Linda University
11234 Anderson St,. RM A108
Department of Emergency Medicine
Loma Linda, CA 92354
Phone: (909) 824-4344 Fax: (909) 558-0121
Email: [email protected]
Length: 1 year
Salary:
No. of Positions: 1
Deadline: March 1



Keck School of Medicine at the University of Southern California
Jason B. Ruben, MD
Department of Emergency Medicine
1200 North State Street
Room 1011
Los Angeles, CA 90033
Phone: (323) 226-6667 Fax: (805) 687-4037
Email: [email protected]
Length: 1-2 years
Salary: Competitive salary, international travel funds, CME, benefits
No. of Positions: 1-2
Deadline:



(see www.saem.org for a list of all em fellowships)
 
Thanks for all of your advice. I admit that Surgery and FP are polar opposites in many respects. However the two things that I am attracted to about both are the close relationship you have with your patients and the opportunity to learn how to take care of just about anyone. They also both lend well to international careers, but in different ways. I have also been considering OB-GYN lately. My question is, what is so bad about FP that I am getting advice from so many people to do surgery? It seems like either field would allow you to have a big impact on someone's life. Is this a misconception about FP?
 
lilybriscoe said:
Thanks for all of your advice. I admit that Surgery and FP are polar opposites in many respects. However the two things that I am attracted to about both are the close relationship you have with your patients and the opportunity to learn how to take care of just about anyone. They also both lend well to international careers, but in different ways. I have also been considering OB-GYN lately. My question is, what is so bad about FP that I am getting advice from so many people to do surgery? It seems like either field would allow you to have a big impact on someone's life. Is this a misconception about FP?

Hi there,
You are right that General Surgery does allow you to take care of most anyone as does Family Medicine. Family Medicine residents are required to rotate with us on surgery and I try to make sure that they have a good experience and learn to do minor procedures. Just a couple of days ago, I did a lap chole on a patient who was 20 weeks pregnant so we work on pregnant patients too. The hours of a surgeon are quite a bit longer than Family Medicine but you won't care as long as you are doing something that you love.

Good luck!
njbmd 🙂
 
I am shocked by all the pro-surgery responses and disappointed by the lack of pro-FM responses on this Family Medicine forum! C'mon guys!?!?!? Where are the pro-FM people??

I'd like to first say that not every specialty is for every person. I am a Family Medicine resident right now, and I cannot imagine myself (nor would I want to be) doing anything else. On the other hand, I'd hate to be doing a residency in anesthesiology or radiology because that's just not fitting for my personality. However, I have several good friends in those aforementioned fields who'd hate to be doing what I'm doing. Neither person is wrong, nor is any field of medicine worse than (or less than) another.... It's just that different people look for different things in a career.

Although my comments below may (unintentionally) offend many surgery-minded people, that is NOT my intent as I am simply making generalizations about the 2 fields of medicine. I have encountered many wonderful surgeons in my life, both as a MD and as a patient. And I know that there are bad primary care docs just as there are bad surgeons. So, please realize this before sending me any nasty PMs. Also realize before you surgery-minded people PM me something nasty that I am sure that you've bashed primary care docs quite a bit. While I do not feel that surgery is less important than FM, I certainly don't think that FM is any less important than surgery.

Lilybriscoe, let me address a few of your questions....

1) Why so many people tell you not to do FM: the reason that everyone tells you not to go into FM is that in the major university medical centers, the general philosophy is VERY specialist-driven. Although regionally the view-points may vary somewhat, this is generally not true outside of medical schools and their affiliated university medical centers. The other reason that people (especially surgery residents) tell you not to go into family medicine is that many surgeons (although not all of them) look down on any MD who's not a surgeon.

There is a misconception that because family medicine is not as competitive as other specialties the only people who go into FM are those that can't/don't match into anything else. In my opinion however, this could not be farther from the truth. Many of the people I know that go into family medicine are highly competitive applicants who could have matched in a number of highly competitive specialties. I am saddened by all of the med students who originally have a strong desire to go into FM but by the end of their four years of medical school hear so much negative press about the specialty that they chose something else.

Family Medicine is a wonderful field of medicine for those who enjoy close patient interactions and the primary-care diseases -- you can adapt your practice to focus on so many different areas (Women's Health, sports medicine, geriatrics, pediatrics, procedures, working solely in samller ERs, etc...) and the relationships that you'll be able to develop with many of your patients are incredibly enriching. I would argue that FM docs have (in general) better bedside manner and much stronger relationships with their patients than surgeons. The potential for a positive, lasting long-term impact on the lives of your patients (especially when you consider the whole biopsychosocial model) is, I believe, much higher in FM. I know, FM docs can't do an emergency life-saving surgery, but how often does that surgeon follow up (or even want to follow-up) with that patient once the cutting (and post-op stuff) is over?? Family Medicine docs have more opportunity to make a lasting impact on patient because FM docs tend to follow their patients more regularly in continuity over several years whereas patient follow-up with surgeons is typically as needed and ends once the disease is cut out.

2. On personality differences: I think that you are correct in that FM and surg are polar opposites... and I think that the people who chose each specialty tend to have quite different personalities. Again, generally speaking, people that go into FM tend to value patient follow-up and building relationship with patients moreso than surgery. Also, people that go into FM tend to be more laid back and relaxed than people that go into surgery. I'd also argue that people who go into family medicine place more focus on their life outside of the hospital (and the need for personal time with family) than many of the people who go into surgery. While these personality differences are not true for every surgeon or FM doc, these are the general trends.

3. The issue of missions: You can certainly do international mission work in either field, and contrary to some opinions expressed, I think that the patients/diseases you treat as a primary care doc are just as important as the kinds of patients/diseases treated by surgeons. As surgeons tend to look down on every other field of medicine, I am sure I'll get some disagreement, but treating diabetes and heart disease is as important as repairing cleft palates. I also think, although I may be incorrect, that it's easier to arrange medical missions trips in primary care because you don't need a hospital or OR to treat much of what primary care docs treat, and you can typically treat more patients per hour.

I hope that this helps clear up some of the issues concerning your specialty choice, and I apologize to those I may have offended. Just follow your gut feeling and your heart. Don't be afraid to go into family medicine, no matter what anyone else tells you -- after all, they are not the one who has to do this for the next however many years!! If you decide that surgery is your thing though, I do wish you all the best.

Please let me know if I can help shed any more light on your situation!

Best wishes!

Jason
 
lilybriscoe said:
Thanks for all of your advice. I admit that Surgery and FP are polar opposites in many respects. However the two things that I am attracted to about both are the close relationship you have with your patients and the opportunity to learn how to take care of just about anyone. They also both lend well to international careers, but in different ways. I have also been considering OB-GYN lately. My question is, what is so bad about FP that I am getting advice from so many people to do surgery? It seems like either field would allow you to have a big impact on someone's life. Is this a misconception about FP?
I think the two specialties aren't really that different in many respects, they're both very hands-on for example. I do think that the personalities of people who go into them are very different. One of my suggestions would be to figure out which group you would prefer to just hang out with. The only thing that ever tempted me from family med was peds surgery, but I knew I couldn't stand going through 5 years of a general surgery residency, mostly because I'd have to deal with surgeons all the time. Not that there aren't nice surgeons, but on the whole, family docs are way easier to get along with and also much more interesting.

That FP is "bad" is definitely a misconception. JML is right when he says that most big academic centers focus on specialization and equate non-competitiveness with undesirability. I think that FP is perhaps the most difficult specialty to excel in, because of the enormous amount of information we need to know. And some of the smartest docs I've met have been really excellent FPs.

Either I'm very lucky and FP is looked down upon less at my school (which I think is true at least to an extent) or I'm incredibly oblivious. Either way, I never got disparaging remarks when I said I wanted to do FP, plus in some rotations, they knew I would need to know more about that specialty than many of my classmates who were going into different specialties.
 
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