Frat on AMCAS??

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farf

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I'm in a frat in college, only held a minor leadership role for 1 semester or so. I have 15 things exactly on the AMCAS, and I was considering adding a list of 1-2 small small awards, but those are really not that important since they're for research and the actual research is obviously more important (incl pubs).

Will being in a frat be looked down upon? I have a good GPA + MCAT so I don't think they'll say "he can't handle social stuff and academic stuff together?" The connotations are negative but the frat I am in is not at all the typical "Animal House" style frat.
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I think it depends on what you put in the description for frat that is important. Do you think by putting it down would improve your application and chance of gaining acceptance?
 
I agree to a degree w/ yokopon; however, to be honest, initial impressions are critical and the word "frat" may make the wrong initial impression and no amount of describing is going to remove the stigma of that word if the person reading it has a negative initial reaction. Additionally, listing your frat as an EC feels like you're scraping for ECs. I'd leave it off. I doubt it would add much if you've got other good extra- and co-curriculars. If not, you should def get some!
 
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I'm definitely not scraping for ECs...

It has, however, had a huge impact on my college career. Obviously that alone does not qualify it to be on the AMCAS--your mother probably had a huge impact on your college career/life, but you wouldn't put spending time with her on your application.

Would it improve my application? Probably as much as having a small leadership role in any organization.

I was asking if the negative connotation could possibly outweigh it. To me, that seems ridiculous. Every fraternity is different, and professionals should realize that. I don't want to let my pride get in the way of making the best application decision though...
 
farf said:
I'm definitely not scraping for ECs...

It has, however, had a huge impact on my college career. Obviously that alone does not qualify it to be on the AMCAS--your mother probably had a huge impact on your college career/life, but you wouldn't put spending time with her on your application.

Would it improve my application? Probably as much as having a small leadership role in any organization.

I was asking if the negative connotation could possibly outweigh it. To me, that seems ridiculous. Every fraternity is different, and professionals should realize that. I don't want to let my pride get in the way of making the best application decision though...
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Yeah, I don't know. Seems unprofessional to me. That's my vote. I haven't interviewed people for med school, obviously, but I have chaired and sat on a couple of hiring committees and had some say in UG admissions (to my specific program) while in school. If a student had listed something like a frat on their application, I am pretty sure eyes would have rolled. I've heard similar things from other student interviewers when topics along the lines of "most memorable interview/applicant" came up in casual conversation (and those memorable applicants and interviews were never positive...).
 
I have also been on hiring committees and I'll say that it may have a slightly negative connotation initially, but if you present it correctly, then it should be fine or even good for you.

If you just put "Alpha Beta Gamma Officer" or whatever your leadership position was, and a meaningful/interesting description, it doesn't necessarily sound bad. You don't even have to use the word "fraternity" anywhere in there. "Planned, organized, managed <event>" "contributed to <community service projects>" and whatever else.

Also, I would even think that it's not something that most pre-meds do, so it shows that you've pursued interests outside of medicine/science, which is always a plus.
 
I'd put it down, Farf. The leadership role (while small) is a nice capstone, and more importantly, it gives your application some personality.

And while fraternity might have certain negative connotations for some, that's certainly not going to eclipse all the great work you did, and it's likely to have positive connotations for others. Who knows, your interviewer might be a Zeta Beta Tau alum himself 🙂
 
I've not heard negatives from adcom members about frat leadership activities (and I talk with more than a dozen several times per month during each admissions season). I do recall an interesting and informative interview with an applicant who had the responsibility of hiring a new cook for his frat and I would not have brought that up for discussion if it hadn't been on the AMCAS application. It gave me some insights into his personality, his decision making and negotiating skills, his ability to deal with adversity, make plans and follow through and so forth. You never know what might catch an interviewer's eye and make for a good conversation that will help you shine.
 
I put my sorority on my application 🙂

It is something that is still important to me and I speak about it with passion. If you were interviewed, would you not have a lot to say about it? I personally would.

Just because it has a negative connotation does not mean it will ruin your app. You joined it, so you must appreciate the organization. I'm passionate about my sorority and I think showing that makes my application better, not worse.
 
I put my sorority on my AMCAS. During my college years I held 3 officer positions, including president, so I figured it would help me out to list it.
 
First of all, if you are in a fraternity, no one ever calls their own fraternity a "frat", especially if you are from the south. The people who call it a "frat" are usually not in a fraternity because it does have a negative connotation.

Secondly, the admissions committee should like someone who can be both be socially active and make the grades. They know you are in college, and I'm sure they would rather you enjoy it then spend 90 hours a week studying. If it takes you all day studying every day just to get through undergrad, how are you supposed to get through the material in medical school?

Finally, if you had any leadership role at all in the fraternity, list it. Having served a major leadership role in my own fraternity the past 2 years, I know how demanding it can be to manage 60 guys who only like to party and not do any other required stuff on campus. Undergrad isn't always about the work.
 
fraternities do a lot for the school and the community. there is a reason why they have been a solid part of most undergraduate schools. besides the social aspect, fraternities and sororities participate in community service events, whether it is through organizational efforts or by networking (helping your brother out with something he is doing). most fraternities have a (soft) cap on GPA. there is ample opportunities to involve yourself in service and tutoring. you have to do Relay for Life, at least, and that is a service event as well as a fundraiser.
 
witness23 said:
fraternities do a lot for the school and the community. there is a reason why they have been a solid part of most undergraduate schools. besides the social aspect, fraternities and sororities participate in community service events, whether it is through organizational efforts or by networking (helping your brother out with something he is doing). most fraternities have a (soft) cap on GPA. there is ample opportunities to involve yourself in service and tutoring. you have to do Relay for Life, at least, and that is a service event as well as a fundraiser.
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It should also be noted that fraternities tend to have well-stocked pantries. If you live in the building across the quad and are willing to make a few friends, you can keep yourself fed through sophomore year.

I did not list this on my application, but it is absolutely great life experience.
 
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If you feel that the fraternity helped you grow as a person, you should definitely enter it. I worked at an amusement park for a few years and although some people thought my experience there was trivial compared to my other accomplishments, I entered the experience because I grew so much as a person - overcame my shyness and made me a person I am today (sorry, so corny) so I will cherish that experience over any grant, publication, etc etc.
 
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cudoc2014 said:
First of all, if you are in a fraternity, no one ever calls their own fraternity a "frat", especially if you are from the south. The people who call it a "frat" are usually not in a fraternity because it does have a negative connotation.

Secondly, the admissions committee should like someone who can be both be socially active and make the grades. They know you are in college, and I'm sure they would rather you enjoy it then spend 90 hours a week studying. If it takes you all day studying every day just to get through undergrad, how are you supposed to get through the material in medical school?

Finally, if you had any leadership role at all in the fraternity, list it. Having served a major leadership role in my own fraternity the past 2 years, I know how demanding it can be to manage 60 guys who only like to party and not do any other required stuff on campus. Undergrad isn't always about the work.
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Re: your first point, I was about to say the exact same thing. Anyway, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I played this up in my app and I think it helped me, ultimately.

IMO it shows a different dimension to your application that many people do not have (i.e. I can have a good time but still get things done), per your second point.

Your third point is probably the most important. I definitely wouldn't put it down if you didn't do something "extra."
 
Absolutely include it. I think that intellectuals ought to be ashamed of themselves for holding such stereotypes. Often the people who hold disfavorable opinions of Greek life are socially awkward and introverted. I have heard on this board on more than one occasion that people feel they are more 'entitled' to get into med school because they majored in a hard science or spent every waking moment of college in their dorm room studying. There seems to be a disdain for those who while still getting good grades, enjoyed the college experience and attended many social events. My fraternity molded me into an outspoken leader, and I would not be the person I am today without that experience.
 
The president of my fraternity on campus was accepted to medical school this past cycle, and will be matriculating this coming fall. Take what you will from that.
 
i put mine on it. i did extensive volunteer work there is nothing wrong with it esp if you were invovled
 
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ANF1986 said:
Did I hurt your feelings?
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It's just that you criticize people who stereotype fraternities and then you stereotype them as "socially awkward and introverted."
 
If I choose to not list it, can it count against me if they ask me where I live (like at my own school's med school, which is pretty much on the same campus, and is also my 1st choice), and I say a fraternity, and then they don't see it on? Could that be perceived as strange or show them that I did not take leadership roles in something that was so important to me and that I was involved with, or give them the indication that something was wrong?
 
farf,
i was social for my fraternity for a year, and played a big role in organizing both social and brotherhood events. this position has been instrumental in developing my organizational and managerial skills and i wouldnt trade it for any membership in a premed society (although i have one of those too =P). i think if you gained stuff from your fraternity, then do it, put it on. i did, i put it on, and i dont regret it. if theyre gonna have a negative impression from the get go, thats their loss. i think that fraternity men with solid stats are a rare find and medical schools would be hard pressed to justify turning down a socially, academically, and in most cases, athletically capable applicants.

just my $0.02....
 
redrower said:
farf,
i was social for my fraternity for a year, and played a big role in organizing both social and brotherhood events. this position has been instrumental in developing my organizational and managerial skills and i wouldnt trade it for any membership in a premed society (although i have one of those too =P). i think if you gained stuff from your fraternity, then do it, put it on. i did, i put it on, and i dont regret it. if theyre gonna have a negative impression from the get go, thats their loss. i think that fraternity men with solid stats are a rare find and medical schools would be hard pressed to justify turning down a socially, academically, and in most cases, athletically capable applicants.

just my $0.02....
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Obviously I've gained stuff, but it's hard to really describe that in the activities section. Also, like I said earlier, you've gained stuff from being a son/daughter to your parents, but you don't put that on your application, do you? I guess what I'm saying is that getting a lot out of something isn't enough to justify putting it down on the application. I think it depends on more of how it sounds/appears. True, they may see me as more social, which is always a good thing, but they can see my manner and personality during an interview...
 
witness23 said:
fraternities do a lot for the school and the community. there is a reason why they have been a solid part of most undergraduate schools.
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Greeks are only tolerated at my school because their alumni give so much money. YMMV.
 
it sounds like youve already made up your mind. the fact that you called your fraternity a "frat" was kinda indicative of how you view it as well. if you have a negative image of your fraternity experience, how do you expect to persuade an adcom that it was a worthwhile endeavor? if you arent able to stand up and support your involvement, i would say dont put it down.

and as a side comment, if i felt strongly, and i mean STRONGLY, that spending time with my mother helped me grow as a person and single-handedly shaped me into who i am and what i believe in, you can bet your ass im gonna put it down. but then again, that would have to be a very very impressive mother.
 
redrower said:
it sounds like youve already made up your mind. the fact that you called your fraternity a "frat" was kinda indicative of how you view it as well. if you have a negative image of your fraternity experience, how do you expect to persuade an adcom that it was a worthwhile endeavor? if you arent able to stand up and support your involvement, i would say dont put it down.

and as a side comment, if i felt strongly, and i mean STRONGLY, that spending time with my mother helped me grow as a person and single-handedly shaped me into who i am and what i believe in, you can bet your ass im gonna put it down. but then again, that would have to be a very very impressive mother.
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I put "frat" in the title so that people would come with a negative attitude about it--almost like playing devil's advocate. Then, if I got positive responses, I would know they were legit and not an artifact of my making it sound good.

Also, you're saying that your other activities have shaped you more than your relationship with your mother? How can being part of a premed club shape you more than your parents? That doesn't make sense. Obviously how much things shaped you is not the only criterion for putting it down.
 
cudoc2014 said:
First of all, if you are in a fraternity, no one ever calls their own fraternity a "frat", especially if you are from the south. The people who call it a "frat" are usually not in a fraternity because it does have a negative connotation.

Secondly, the admissions committee should like someone who can be both be socially active and make the grades. They know you are in college, and I'm sure they would rather you enjoy it then spend 90 hours a week studying. If it takes you all day studying every day just to get through undergrad, how are you supposed to get through the material in medical school?

Finally, if you had any leadership role at all in the fraternity, list it. Having served a major leadership role in my own fraternity the past 2 years, I know how demanding it can be to manage 60 guys who only like to party and not do any other required stuff on campus. Undergrad isn't always about the work.
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Quoted for emphasis
 
I didn't put that I was in a fraternity, however, I did put that I was the Interfraternity Council President, and even talked about some of the conferences I attended in my personal statement. I think the most important thing with any EC is that you can articulate why it was/is important to you, and what you got out of it.
 
VneZonyDostupa said:
Not at all. Your opinions and posts became worthless a long, long time ago. I just thought the hypocrisy of your post was amusing. No worries 🙂
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No I wasn't really asking about your feelings, believe it or not, I dont care :laugh:...
 
I'm in a fraternity, and without it, I wouldn't even be considering going to Med school. By far the best decision I've ever made. Has taught me to be socially competent, balance commitments, and budget my time. It's a valuable experience to be a leader of 60 men.

And don't call it a "frat". Nothing makes me more mad.
 
Yes put it on, I was in a fraternity (don't call it a frat in interviews), and if your experience was anything like mine, it shaped who you are profoundly. Also make sure you don't elaborate too much on the social aspects, but more on the philanthropy. I also wouldn't listen to the negative connotation that people have with fraternities, in my experience, it helps a hell of a lot more than it hurts. There are a ton of doctors that were in fraternities and understand the experience.
 
I think you should list it only if you had a leadership role.
 
LizzyM said:
I've not heard negatives from adcom members about frat leadership activities (and I talk with more than a dozen several times per month during each admissions season). I do recall an interesting and informative interview with an applicant who had the responsibility of hiring a new cook for his frat and I would not have brought that up for discussion if it hadn't been on the AMCAS application. It gave me some insights into his personality, his decision making and negotiating skills, his ability to deal with adversity, make plans and follow through and so forth. You never know what might catch an interviewer's eye and make for a good conversation that will help you shine.
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I hired a cook for my fraternity too, on top of handing $200,000 a year, does that mean I get automatic interview/admission 🙄

Bandwagon on the term "frat", if you called it "frat", chances are, you're not in a Fraternity

On another note, any SAE's around here?
 
My perspective on this issue is that the activities section of AMCAS is your chance to present a part of who you are as a person, and what you enjoy. If an activity has been a defining part of your college life, then it belongs in that section. It will tell your interviewers a little bit about what is important to you. It will put your grades and scores in the context of what your college life was like, and it could be a jumping point into a conversation that you would really want to have during an interview.

No one hesitates when it comes to putting honor societies on their applications, although almost no one does anything with them. I don't understand why there is so much more discussion about whether or not to mention greek life, especially when applicants actually devote time to it and can describe it in a positive light.
 
2 of my interviewers actually talked about living in fraternity housing. if your grades and numbers are fine,
 
Here is my advice as a medical student and former frat boy, now reformed. If you are a member of one of those frats where pledges have died due to alcohol poisoning during the initiation process, do not mention that you are a frat boy.

If your most prized possession is your frat boy t-shirt, do not mention that you are a member of a frat.

I concealed the fact that I was a frat boy on my application to med school, and I got admitted to multiple schools. Make of that what you will.

Oh, and if you are a member of that frat out in Oregon, where one of the brothers shot the homeless guy who was rummaging through the frat's garbage dumpster, avoid talking about your frat experience.

And if you are a sorority girl, you should be ok, so go ahead and mention it unless you only dated frat boys in college.
 
gujuDoc said:
First off, calm the F**K down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Secondly, obviously SHE IS NOT IN A FRATERNITY!!! LizzyM = Adcom member of SDN and someone who has interviewed students. She is a faculty admissions officer at that and not a med student admissions officer.

therefore, she was just putting in her 2 cents.

Secondly, all she did was provide an example of someone who had been in a fraternity and how that had provided for interesting and unique information about them. That was JUST AN EXAMPLE!!!! Nothing more!!

She was saying that being in a fraternity is ok.
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Dude, anyone with a shred of sense of humor/sarcasam will realize that that comment made was a 110% joke

man, pre-meds and their lack of sense of humor/sarcasam

and the comment about "frat", totally referred to OP

chill, seriously
 
I included my leadership roles in my sorority on my application because through that particular organization I was able to participate in multiple service and leadership activities. I was also accepted to 2 medical schools this past cycle. Include it if you feel like your service/leadership roles were significant, but if you're already running out of room on the AMCAS, your experiences in the fraternity might be something that you could save for secondaries or interviews.
 
gujuDoc said:
:laugh: :laugh: I don't think this is the issue with the original poster since they already mentioned was that they did do things like leadershp and other things that don't give this animal house kinda representation that you've mentioned. So I don't think that's their issue. That is why I said that if you can show positive things like philanthropies you've worked hard to support, volunteer work, and what not, you should be ok. If you are not doing that then obviously its not worth putting down cuz no one wants to hear how many times you got drunk or had wet tshirt contests any more then they care how many points you can score on a video game with video gamers.
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O.K. you got me. Are you sure you are a girl? Yeah, you must be a girl because you actually make sense. I just cannot figure out why you care and want to save the brothers from their own lonely selves. Deep introspection is not one of the defining characteristics of the brothers, but thanks for caring.

Searun

Saving one brother at a time.
 
I am definitely not mentioning my fraternity because it was the animal house type, which is fine. Your fraternity should not be your complete college experience, break out from the greek life bubble!
 
I put my Fraternity on my AMCAs...

but only put it in if it had an impact on your college career that you can spin in positive light...
saying it taught me to be social is obviously correct, unless your the creepy guy that hit on girls at parties that no one likes, but its not enough

If you only had one leadership position, its hard to see how much it really did. But holding multiple positions in leadership roles is beneficial.
 
vinniekan said:
I hired a cook for my fraternity too, on top of handing $200,000 a year, does that mean I get automatic interview/admission 🙄

Bandwagon on the term "frat", if you called it "frat", chances are, you're not in a Fraternity

On another note, any SAE's around here?
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SAE here... yeah i thought the same thing... who calls it a "frat" without thinking its a joke... A "fraternity" on the other hand can have a huge impact on your college career and leadership building.
 
Oh, sorry, I was looking for the "Fart on AMCAS" thread. My bad.
 
In all honesty, you really should put it down. The only situation I can think of where you wouldn't want to include it is if your chapter was recently shut down, kicked off campus, or one of your members was in the news for doing something bad. Even if you don't hold a leadership position, a fraternity, like so many people have already stated, says that you won't be a doctor who walks into the room, writes a prescription, and leaves. I'm not saying "non-greek" students have inferior social skills, but I am saying that it implies you know how to have fun when it's time too, relax when you need too, and study when necessary. (If you have the grades of course.) Not to mention, I know an older friend who was in my fraternity and was interviewed at a Texas med school by one of his fraternity alumni. Needless to say, he received a pretty quick acceptance letter. If the adcom is biased right off the get go and rolls his eyes when he sees "fraternity" as one of your ec's, then you probably don't want to go to that school. Also, I have no idea where you're from, but many fraternities have advisors that are associated with the university. In my case, our advisor is a professor at our health sciences center. Similar cases entitle you to a very worthwhile connection and could provide a more comfortable interview atmosphere. In my app one of my descriptions was "...involved in planning numerous social and philanthropic events..." My premed advisor liked that because it shows you work well with people, have leadership skills, and... you know how to have a good time.
 
One more thing... think of how many premeds are in a pre med society, med honor society... etc... Putting a fraternity as one of your ec's adds a little something different to your app. Once again, I don't intend on belittling those involved with pre med organizations, I myself am in one.
 
So I've decided to list fraternity involvement along with other societies. Question: Do you recommend listing the NAME of the actual fraternity, or just that you were in one and your involvement, etc . . .?? Thanks so much !
 
I'm listing the name of my greek organization on my app. If you're going to list the organization at all, you might as well list the name that way they can know that it's a legitimate organization and has things like a philanthropic foundation and standards board.
 
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