Fraternization- a ticket out?

[give us free]

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I am an intern (Captain) with a 4 tear HPSP commitment. In the past few months, I had decided that I no longer wanted to be a physician and I want out of the military. However, i was urged to finish up med school, reassess, etc.... Well, after 2.5 months of internship, I have decided that I REALLY don't want to be a phyisican. I want to leave healthcare altogether. I have put in a letter of resignation to my program, however, I was informed that I must STILL complete intern year and serve as a GMO for 4 years to fulfill my commitment. THIS SUCKS! Every day I go into work is more miserable than the next. To add insult to injury, I had started dating a wonderful young woman (Enlisted) about 1 month ago. And due to the military's control over both our lives- we've had to remain mum about our relationship. THIS REALLY SUCKS. Ironically, my girlfriend also happens to hate being in the military as well, and wants to get out to go back to college. We have been secretive about our romantic relationship but are considering the possibility of going public with the INTENTION of getting kicked out. Yesterday, an attending was talking about another attending that was kicked out the military for fraternization with an enlisted. He was even given an honorable discharge! Then the wheels started turning in my head.....
I really, really, really, want out of the military. Does anyone reading this know personally of UNMARRIED individuals that were kicked out for fraternization. What disciplinary actions were taken, ie was there any jail time (I've heard this is a possibility)? Could this be my (our) golden ticket out?

 

[crazybrancato]

you posted here before . . . an i think someone advised you to talk to a lawyer . . . I echo that advise. Go talk to a JAG (or a civi lawyer with UCMJ experience). Ask that same question. You're really not going to get any definitive legal advice here on this forum.

Now . . . from my experience . . . frat. is usually difficult to prove and prosecute (unless there are key eye-witnesses, key testimonials, etc etc). Now, if you both confess to it . . . then I don't know. I've heard (and this is just hearsay) that sometimes the military opts NOT to prosecute frat. cases and will just separate the two of you (put you in different commands, on different coasts, whatever). So no, frat. is not necessarily a 'golden ticket out'. I'm not a lawyer, so again, please go talk to one. That's really your best bet.

Of course there are other more certain ways . . .such as the usage of certain recreational drugs! That'll get you both out quickly . . .but that'll also negate your GI Bill, preclude you from ever taking another gov't job (you might not care), and that'll incur the wrath of your superiors! (Don't do it, i'm sure you're thinking about it).

Also, are you ok with paying back your loans???

 

[IgD]

This has got to be a troll post

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

You could always find a creative way to "come out of the closet" and claim you're gay.

With your knowledge of medicine, you could take JUST enough of a prescription med and call it a suicide attempt.

Granted, these would be fraud, and you could be strung up by your short 'n curly hair if you were found out. It just depends on how badly you want out and what you are willing to risk to get what you want.

 

[crazybrancato]

You could always find a creative way to "come out of the closet" and claim you're gay.

With your knowledge of medicine, you could take JUST enough of a prescription med and call it a suicide attempt.

Granted, these would be fraud, and you could be strung up by your short 'n curly hair if you were found out. It just depends on how badly you want out and what you are willing to risk to get what you want.

"Coming out" won't necessarily get you out fast either . . .they can make it a long process . . .Really the only sure fire way is violating the zero-tolerance (drug) policy . . but again, that comes with a decent sized **** storm.

 

[give us free]

FYI- I am definitely NOT a troll. My situation is real and I am very serious about wanting to GET OUT.

 

[jonb12997]

how are you going to pay off your medical school? will someone give you loans? you might want to check that out...

 

[AF M4]

I am an intern (Captain) with a 4 tear HPSP commitment. In the past few months, I had decided that I no longer wanted to be a physician and I want out of the military. However, i was urged to finish up med school, reassess, etc.... Well, after 2.5 months of internship, I have decided that I REALLY don't want to be a phyisican. I want to leave healthcare altogether. I have put in a letter of resignation to my program, however, I was informed that I must STILL complete intern year and serve as a GMO for 4 years to fulfill my commitment. THIS SUCKS! Every day I go into work is more miserable than the next. To add insult to injury, I had started dating a wonderful young woman (Enlisted) about 1 month ago. And due to the military's control over both our lives- we've had to remain mum about our relationship. THIS REALLY SUCKS. Ironically, my girlfriend also happens to hate being in the military as well, and wants to get out to go back to college. We have been secretive about our romantic relationship but are considering the possibility of going public with the INTENTION of getting kicked out. Yesterday, an attending was talking about another attending that was kicked out the military for fraternization with an enlisted. He was even given an honorable discharge! Then the wheels started turning in my head.....
I really, really, really, want out of the military. Does anyone reading this know personally of UNMARRIED individuals that were kicked out for fraternization. What disciplinary actions were taken, ie was there any jail time (I've heard this is a possibility)? Could this be my (our) golden ticket out?

Dude, first have her shoot you in the foot, then you shoot her in the foot. Be sure that you have the gun second since if you shoot her first she might get pissed off about getting shot and decide to shoot you in the gonads instead.

 

[pgg]

You're not going to "get out" free of consequences and you're not going to find any sympathy here. One way or another, you'll pay back your obligated service. No one can force you to be a competent doctor, so perhaps you won't do your payback as a physician ... in the Navy the MSC gets the occasional med student or doc who flunks out or is in professional trouble or just wants to quit medicine.

Even if you were willing to pay back the scholarship money (and it sounds like you're not honest enough to do that anyway), there's never been any indication that the military would be accomdating. They want your highly educated service, not the money. Adding criminal misconduct (ie, UCMJ violations) to your CV is not going to improve your position.

If it was up to me, I'd give you four years of chipping paint in the North Atlantic during the winter and filling sandbags in Iraq during the summer.

 

[Perrotfish]

See if you can drop down to Enlisted. Serve in Infantry (or whatever) for 4 years. Don't you always have the option of resigning your commission?

Also, yeah, if you're not at least planning on paying back what your service paid for your medical school, whether in service or in cash, F&#K you. You're trying to steal over 250K.

 

[darmalee]

See if you can drop down to Enlisted. Serve in Infantry (or whatever) for 4 years. Don't you always have the option of resigning your commission?

Also, yeah, if you're not at least planning on paying back what your service paid for your medical school, whether in service or in cash, F&#K you. You're trying to steal 250K.

WHOLEheartedly agree on the stealing thing. 🙂 You made me smile Perrotfish.

And, I don't see a branch, but I can tell you as someone who worked in administration...the Army NEEDS people...it is almost impossible to kick people out these days. Coming out of the closet? Nope, you might just be faking it to get out of the army...Piss hot on your urinalysis...nope, we'll give you another chance...Can't pass a PT test to save your life? Nope, we'll just make you PT every day after work until it's not worth it anymore. I'm not saying that this is right, but it is the way it is. And fraternization...I know people that have been court martialed for the most extreme ones that involved adultery, but have never heard of a person getting kicked out for it...just my two cents...

 

[HotelCo]

Serve it out... I'm sure the guys and gals over in Iraq getting bullets shot at them want out right now too...

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I am an intern (Captain) with a 4 tear HPSP commitment. In the past few months, I had decided that I no longer wanted to be a physician and I want out of the military. However, i was urged to finish up med school, reassess, etc.... Well, after 2.5 months of internship, I have decided that I REALLY don't want to be a phyisican. I want to leave healthcare altogether. I have put in a letter of resignation to my program, however, I was informed that I must STILL complete intern year and serve as a GMO for 4 years to fulfill my commitment. THIS SUCKS! Every day I go into work is more miserable than the next. To add insult to injury, I had started dating a wonderful young woman (Enlisted) about 1 month ago. And due to the military's control over both our lives- we've had to remain mum about our relationship. THIS REALLY SUCKS. Ironically, my girlfriend also happens to hate being in the military as well, and wants to get out to go back to college. We have been secretive about our romantic relationship but are considering the possibility of going public with the INTENTION of getting kicked out. Yesterday, an attending was talking about another attending that was kicked out the military for fraternization with an enlisted. He was even given an honorable discharge! Then the wheels started turning in my head.....
I really, really, really, want out of the military. Does anyone reading this know personally of UNMARRIED individuals that were kicked out for fraternization. What disciplinary actions were taken, ie was there any jail time (I've heard this is a possibility)? Could this be my (our) golden ticket out?

If they let everyone out who wanted out because they were sick of the military, imagine the staffing problems then.

None of your ideas are going to work. And you should finish the internship.
And you really should avoid anything that will bring down official action for your having done anything illegal or unbecoming an officer.

You sound kind of impulsive and honestly, your judgment isn't so great either. If you were sitting across from me in clinic, I might be sending you to psych just to be sure there wasn't an Axis-I diagnosis somewhere.

 

[pgg]

If you were sitting across from me in clinic, I might be sending you to psych just to be sure there wasn't an Axis-I diagnosis somewhere.

My money's on axis II. Something cluster B.

armchair psychiatry is fun

 

[orbitsurgMD]

My money's on axis II. Something cluster B.

armchair psychiatry is fun

Most likely a grab-bag of "traits" or the NOS Axis II salad bar; build your own. Of course it hardly matters prognosis-wise.

 

[sethco]

I have put in a letter of resignation to my program, however, I was informed that I must STILL complete intern year and serve as a GMO for 4 years to fulfill my commitment.

I was not aware that you are "required" to finish your internship year and then serve out as a GMO.

I thought that if you were pushed out of the Medical Corp, you automatically defaulted to the MSC. Are you in a civilian or military internship? I didn't think they could make you, against your will, to complete your internship if you no longer want to be a physician.

As for the rest of your post, you really have to ask yourself just how much dignity and honor you want to maintain during this process. I have a friend that decided she didn't want to be a physician midway through her 3rd year, so she decided to complete her HPSP commitment as a Flight Surgeon. This was a very honorable thing to do and after she finishes she has no loans to worry about and she is free to do what she wants.

This is just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

 

[adismo]

i think you should see a psychiatrist. your posts make you sound like a very depressed person. also fairly immature.

also, have you considered that when you speak of all these underhanded things you plan on doing, you are insulting everyone on this forum and countless military physicians that came before us? you aren't 12 years old anymore, grow a pair and do your share.

 

[i want out]

I am an intern (Captain) with a 4 tear HPSP commitment. In the past few months, I had decided that I no longer wanted to be a physician and I want out of the military. However, i was urged to finish up med school, reassess, etc.... Well, after 2.5 months of internship, I have decided that I REALLY don't want to be a phyisican. I want to leave healthcare altogether. I have put in a letter of resignation to my program, however, I was informed that I must STILL complete intern year and serve as a GMO for 4 years to fulfill my commitment. THIS SUCKS! Every day I go into work is more miserable than the next. To add insult to injury, I had started dating a wonderful young woman (Enlisted) about 1 month ago. And due to the military's control over both our lives- we've had to remain mum about our relationship. THIS REALLY SUCKS. Ironically, my girlfriend also happens to hate being in the military as well, and wants to get out to go back to college. We have been secretive about our romantic relationship but are considering the possibility of going public with the INTENTION of getting kicked out. Yesterday, an attending was talking about another attending that was kicked out the military for fraternization with an enlisted. He was even given an honorable discharge! Then the wheels started turning in my head.....
I really, really, really, want out of the military. Does anyone reading this know personally of UNMARRIED individuals that were kicked out for fraternization. What disciplinary actions were taken, ie was there any jail time (I've heard this is a possibility)? Could this be my (our) golden ticket out?

my name on this board says it all, I wanted out from about 4 months into my 4 years of active duty.

I also had the opportunity to counsel many young men and women who were coming to the realization that they had been lied to and lead on by a recruiter.

I will tell you what I told them:

The Navy (substitute any service here) has been doing this for over 200 years. You are not the first or the last person of any rank to want out. The Navy has not been in a habit of sending people home unless they decide they don't need you(highly unlikely with current manning).
You have been working on a way out for maybe a few months, or at most a year or two. At the risk of repeating myself, the Navy has been doing this for 200 years, and they have essentially unlimited time and money to pursue whatever legal action anybody with a wild hair up their butt wants to.

Now if you were lucky enough to find the golden ticket home, how many people do you know in your division that would immediately start singing the same song?

Furthermore, the Navy is not in the business of making you happy, they don't really care if your happy, or in most cases if your even productive, just that your there, and filling the slot.

Now consider the long term effects of doing whatever you are considering doing (eg difficulty getting license in some state if you want to return to practice of medicine).

The most effective and usually quickest way out of the .mil is to finish your obligated service, and not sign another contract.

Good Luck, and dont ruin the rest of your life because medicine sucks as an intern, Intern year sucks for everybody.

i want out(of IRR)

 

[scottyT]

If you like fraternizing you should find a male to fraternize with. That will get you out for sure. The trick is to not come out of the closet though ... just get "caught" doing it. If you get "caught," they won't subject you to the psych evals to make sure you're not lying about it. And a discharge for homosexuality is only a general/administrative one, not a BCD like you get for substance use.

They'll still bill you for all your debt, but you can probably declare bankruptcy. Student loan debt is usually shielded from bankruptcy but this kind of debt may be fair game as it's not a student loan (check into it). Either way, you can claim that paying the debt back would cause undue hardship and get out of it (because you will never be able to pay back the $250,000 or whatever as an unlicensed MD).

There are ways out, it just depends on how committed you are ... and how much you care about honoring your commitments.

I knew a guy who got caught with a boyfriend and he was discharged and on a bus home in under 24 hours. This is the only time I've ever seen anything resembling efficiency in the military.

 

[scottyT]

...Does anyone reading this know personally of UNMARRIED individuals that were kicked out for fraternization. What disciplinary actions were taken, ie was there any jail time (I've heard this is a possibility)? Could this be my (our) golden ticket out?

Almost forgot to answer your question. I did know of 1 unmarried guy (and a slew of married ones) who got kicked out for fraternization. He was a Marine Captain and the OIC for PMO (the military police). He got caught in a car outside of the E-club getting a BJ from a female LCpl. The female LCpl was already on restriction and in trouble for having fooled around with another, married, man, and thus should not have been outside of the barracks at all. They both got the boot.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

If you like fraternizing you should find a male to fraternize with. That will get you out for sure. The trick is to not come out of the closet though ... just get "caught" doing it. If you get "caught," they won't subject you to the psych evals to make sure you're not lying about it. And a discharge for homosexuality is only a general/administrative one, not a BCD like you get for substance use.

They'll still bill you for all your debt, but you can probably declare bankruptcy. Student loan debt is usually shielded from bankruptcy but this kind of debt may be fair game as it's not a student loan (check into it). Either way, you can claim that paying the debt back would cause undue hardship and get out of it (because you will never be able to pay back the $250,000 or whatever as an unlicensed MD).

There are ways out, it just depends on how committed you are ... and how much you care about honoring your commitments.

I knew a guy who got caught with a boyfriend and he was discharged and on a bus home in under 24 hours. This is the only time I've ever seen anything resembling efficiency in the military.

Best to check your contract. There are terms that allow the U.S. Government to utilize you in a non-military obligated service capacity under HHS, possibly as a U.S Public Health Service officer. That at least was the case when I was in and, I believe that applied to those who either refused commissioning or who were unfit for commissioning. Whether they could legally do the same once you are commissioned is a question for the lawyer you should hire. In any case, I recommend you do so discreetly as acknowledging that you are scheming with outside lawyers will create a phenomenon particular to the military, the simultaneous urge by the senior medical and health/administrative cadre to dogpile you and avoid you at all costs. At a minimum, you will get a lousy fitrep, not that you seem to care. If they know you hate them and the service, they will also likely try to screw you with a bad post-internship assignment. So you really could make your situation worse.

I suggest you keep your head low, don't raise a ruckus, (and I really don't know what to tell you about the GF, except that if you are going to see her you keep everything below radar on your end and particularly on her end--other Es love fireworks, and blowing the whistle on an old O&E party always makes for good entertainment) and finally see a lawyer and a shrink.

 

[IgD]

Very tough situation. I want to be supportive. My advice is never make a decision under duress. From the outside, it appears you are a few months into internship, are feeling the extreme pressure we all felt during internship and want to escape. During medical school I had a couple classmates leave but it was early on and never during internship. My gut says you should stick it out. Even if you decide to leave medicine it might look better on your resume if you finish internship. Things get a lot better during 2nd year of residency. I've been pretty vocal as of late against GMO tours. However it might be something to help in your situation. It might be a good change of pace and time for reflection after internship.

I absolutely agree with the other posters that committing a cardinal sin to get out would be a huge mistake. Have some courage to see this through!

 

[scottyT]

Best to check your contract. There are terms that allow the U.S. Government to utilize you in a non-military obligated service capacity under HHS, possibly as a U.S Public Health Service officer. That at least was the case when I was in and, I believe that applied to those who either refused commissioning or who were unfit for commissioning. Whether they could legally do the same once you are commissioned is a question for the lawyer you should hire. In any case, I recommend you do so discreetly as acknowledging that you are scheming with outside lawyers will create a phenomenon particular to the military, the simultaneous urge by the senior medical and health/administrative cadre to dogpile you and avoid you at all costs. At a minimum, you will get a lousy fitrep, not that you seem to care. If they know you hate them and the service, they will also likely try to screw you with a bad post-internship assignment. So you really could make your situation worse.

I suggest you keep your head low, don't raise a ruckus, (and I really don't know what to tell you about the GF, except that if you are going to see her you keep everything below radar on your end and particularly on her end--other Es love fireworks, and blowing the whistle on an old O&E party always makes for good entertainment) and finally see a lawyer and a shrink.

That's a good point. I was thinking about things from an enlisted point of view. The government has invested far less in us, and is more willing to replace us with less hassle.

Four years really isn't that long in the scheme of things, and the lifestyle isn't all that bad. My enlisted contract went pretty quickly once I came to that realization.

 

[Jolie South]

i know a guy in the AF who was busted for a blatant honor code violation DURING COT (he didn't even graduate) and is currently at his base serving his duty time.

not that i know much, but this guy lied and cheated and there was proof and he was not discharged.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

i know a guy in the AF who was busted for a blatant honor code violation DURING COT (he didn't even graduate) and is currently at his base serving his duty time.

not that i know much, but this guy lied and cheated and there was proof and he was not discharged.

"Honor code" is really Academy-grade smoke. When it comes to collecting money owed, honor code violations are ignored. They can always punish you while they have you.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

my name on this board says it all, I wanted out from about 4 months into my 4 years of active duty.

I also had the opportunity to counsel many young men and women who were coming to the realization that they had been lied to and lead on by a recruiter.

I will tell you what I told them:

The Navy (substitute any service here) has been doing this for over 200 years. You are not the first or the last person of any rank to want out. The Navy has not been in a habit of sending people home unless they decide they don't need you(highly unlikely with current manning).
You have been working on a way out for maybe a few months, or at most a year or two. At the risk of repeating myself, the Navy has been doing this for 200 years, and they have essentially unlimited time and money to pursue whatever legal action anybody with a wild hair up their butt wants to.

Now if you were lucky enough to find the golden ticket home, how many people do you know in your division that would immediately start singing the same song?

Furthermore, the Navy is not in the business of making you happy, they don't really care if your happy, or in most cases if your even productive, just that your there, and filling the slot.

Now consider the long term effects of doing whatever you are considering doing (eg difficulty getting license in some state if you want to return to practice of medicine).

The most effective and usually quickest way out of the .mil is to finish your obligated service, and not sign another contract.

Good Luck, and dont ruin the rest of your life because medicine sucks as an intern, Intern year sucks for everybody.

i want out(of IRR)

Now I'm not saying the military doesn't blow, I didn't enjoy my time much. But how bad can it really be as a doctor?

I was enlisted for 7 years and thought it was bad, but is it really that much worse as a doctor?

I spent the majority of my time scrubbing toilets, sweeping floors and painting. All for about 1/4 of the money 0-3's make. I didnt have my own stateroom or people fetching my food (It was the Navy). Everyone, and i mean everyone, was my boss. I could be ordered to do every little **** job any time any place.

Basically I want to know if being a military doctor is actually worse than being enlisted. It seems like a 4 year stint as a GMO would be relatively easy. I understand there are deployments and ***hole bosses (just like for everyone in the military), but what could possibly make it so much worse than being enlisted?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Now I'm not saying the military doesn't blow, I didn't enjoy my time much. But how bad can it really be as a doctor?

I was enlisted for 7 years and thought it was bad, but is it really that much worse as a doctor?

I spent the majority of my time scrubbing toilets, sweeping floors and painting. All for about 1/4 of the money 0-3's make. I didnt have my own stateroom or people fetching my food (It was the Navy). Everyone, and i mean everyone, was my boss. I could be ordered to do every little **** job any time any place.

Basically I want to know if being a military doctor is actually worse than being enlisted. It seems like a 4 year stint as a GMO would be relatively easy. I understand there are deployments and ***hole bosses (just like for everyone in the military), but what could possibly make it so much worse than being enlisted?

They won't hang you over the side in a sling with a bucket of paint while the BMC yells in your ear, if that is what you mean. They won't make you go into a void with a respirator to chip rust. But that is a useless comparison.

The relevant question is whether they will treat you as well as a civilian, in all the ways that are important to a medical professional. Will you get adequate training and support to do the work of a physician, adequate to the general standards of the profession in the USA?

That is what matters, not whether they treat you better than an enlisted SN.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

They won't hang you over the side in a sling with a bucket of paint while the BMC yells in your ear, if that is what you mean. They won't make you go into a void with a respirator to chip rust. But that is a useless comparison.

The relevant question is whether they will treat you as well as a civilian, in all the ways that are important to a medical professional. Will you get adequate training and support to do the work of a physician, adequate to the general standards of the profession in the USA?

That is what matters, not whether they treat you better than an enlisted SN.

I completely agree then. I just wanted to be sure that's what people were complaining about so I can accurately gauge the level of crapiness involved in a milmed career.

Because it seems to me, as a former enlisted member, that being a military doctor would be infinitely better than what I was doing. It would likely also be infinitely worse than being a civilian doc.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[edinOH]

So you are a couple of months into your internship and you have decided that you neither want to be a doctor or a military officer.

Sounds like you are ****ed.

Seriously.

You displayed certain character qualities to allow you to get into medical school and then subsequently graduate. Sometimes shtbags get through the process but lets assume you aren't one of those. You may be lacking in foresight and the discipline that it takes to make it through internship but that isn't really fair either. You had the discipline to make it through medical school so you should have the fortitude it takes to make it through internship.

Here we are in September of your internship year. You have been out of medical school for three months and already you are contemplating how you can torpedo your short military career, possibly your future job prospects as a civilian, the work you put in over the last four years as a medical student, and preserve the ***** you are hitting on the E-side.

Are you Fking crazy?!!!!

How about this. Suck it up for the rest of the year. Work on learning to be the best doctor you can be. Continue to **** your enlisted hottie, and re-evaluate your position at the end of the year. I would bet money that you will see things differently then.

 

[Homunculus]

Basically I want to know if being a military doctor is actually worse than being enlisted. It seems like a 4 year stint as a GMO would be relatively easy. I understand there are deployments and ***hole bosses (just like for everyone in the military), but what could possibly make it so much worse than being enlisted?

granted, i'm on the pure army side of the house (i did work at the navy "flagship" 3 years during residency), but at times i *do* actually think that the enlisted day to day life is "better" in some situations depending on how you define better. it depends if you are talking pay, degree of stress, job fulfillment, etc.

day to day it varies, but overall the average medical-ish enlisted tech person (for example) works clinic hours (7:30-4:00 or so) has every weekend and weeknight off, and is responsbile for basically nothing. online training and mandatory training pops up? no prob, they just tell their boss and they're shortstaffed a bit. calling in sick? just get a sickcall slip and you're fine. their pay of course reflects this, but i remember vividly as an intern a navy corpsman complaining about having to come in on a saturday once because it "put her over 40 hours for the week". she subsequently got a weekday shift off to compensate.

with greater pay comes greater responsibility, but i feel like ultimately i have about as much control over how things happen as that lab tech counting my manual diff. i can't take a sick day or 18-20 pts get cancelled, i can't take time off during the day for mandatory training because i'm already booked full the day they decide to do it (so i do it on my own time), and my responsiblities don't end just because the clock hits 1600. oh, and half the weekends i'm working in some capacity. changing any of that, or any of the "death by a thousand cuts" annoying things that happen during the day, is impossible. the institutional intertia is impossible to overcome, lol. so in the end we grin and bear it just like the enlisted do-- only in the enlisted folks eyes we gave up the right to complain because we get paid more.

in the civilian side more work generally = more pay. and in an academic center the lower pay is made up for by more teaching, research, and fewer hours. enlisted get paid less to do less. it all makes sense. and i'm sure there's the "grass is greener" effect as well, but somedays i do envy the other worker ants as they file out at 4 as i'm still seeing patients.

--your friendly neighborhood patient satisfaction survey shredding caveman

 

[Homunculus]

as to the OP: whatever happens, keep us posted.

i would think they'd make you serve out your obligation as an MSC officer, split the two of you up to opposite coasts (or worse) and attempt to recoup their money.

i'd do your time, have your enlisted GF get out a soon as she can (enlisted folks usually aren't obligated as long as we are) or have her to green to gold ROTC or something. besides, it's only been a month-- give it some time and the newness might wear off . . .

--your friendly neighborhood Dear Abby caveman

 

[mann976]

So you are a couple of months into your internship and you have decided that you neither want to be a doctor or a military officer.

Sounds like you are ****ed.

Seriously.

You displayed certain character qualities to allow you to get into medical school and then subsequently graduate. Sometimes shtbags get through the process but lets assume you aren't one of those. You may be lacking in foresight and the discipline that it takes to make it through internship but that isn't really fair either. You had the discipline to make it through medical school so you should have the fortitude it takes to make it through internship.

Here we are in September of your internship year. You have been out of medical school for three months and already you are contemplating how you can torpedo your short military career, possibly your future job prospects as a civilian, the work you put in over the last four years as a medical student, and preserve the ***** you are hitting on the E-side.

Are you Fking crazy?!!!!

How about this. Suck it up for the rest of the year. Work on learning to be the best doctor you can be. Continue to **** your enlisted hottie, and re-evaluate your position at the end of the year. I would bet money that you will see things differently then.

now this is a post that many should print out, frame, and place on their walls, to remind them of what winy bichez they are . . . . bravo edinOH

 

[pgg]

Basically I want to know if being a military doctor is actually worse than being enlisted.

orbitsurgMD already addressed this, but I'll add something because this kind of question drives me nuts. And since it's probably the #1 question that gets asked on this forum by incredulous non-physicians, I'm rapidly approaching the need for some psychiatric help.

This is the wrong question.

You may as well ask if being a military doctor is better or worse than collecting tickets at a carnival teacup ride, or playing poker in Vegas every night with an entourage of hot chicks and the $73 million fortune you inherited. Of course being a military doctor is better than scrubbing toilets and getting yelled at by some inbred E4 and hotbunking in the engine room of a sub. 🙄 Of course it is.

And the day it takes a decade-plus of postsecondary education to get a job scrubbing toilets and hotbunking is the day that the above bolded question might be relevant.

Good questions concern plausible alternatives. No one who visits this forum is struggling to choose between swabbing decks or being a military doctor. How life as a military doctor compares to life as a civilian doctor is, fundamentally, what every single one of these "I'm thinking of joining" threads is about.

 

[Perrotfish]

Good questions concern plausible alternatives. No one who visits this forum is struggling to choose between swabbing decks or being a military doctor. How life as a military doctor compares to life as a civilian doctor is, fundamentally, what every single one of these "I'm thinking of joining" threads is about.

You sure about this? What about the people who want to serve for idealistic reasons? I know more than a couple of people who believe that military service is a moral, and should be a legal, obligation. And that's why they're joining. If you go from that assumption the question of 'how do I serve' becomes relevant. Do you put in 2 years enlisted through National Call to service, 4 years as a line officer and then start medical school, or just serve as a medical officer? If you tell me doctor is as good as military life gets then I go ahead and take HPSP and at least get out of Med school loans. If you that military medicine is the worst part of military life then I start seriously considering that Intel MOS.

 

[american red]

Serve it out... I'm sure the guys and gals over in Iraq getting bullets shot at them want out right now too...

I salute you brother. 👍

 

[bustbones26]

1) Suicide

I once heard of a person overdosing as a suicide attempt. Guess what, they made her a GMO. She apparently did the overdose thing again! Guess what, she is still a GMO! She does med boards, she will probably never get deployed, but she is still a GMO

2) Homosexuality

I once heard a rumor that a USUHS grad wanted out and the Army told him that if he could pay back the estimated money the spent on him, it was a deal! Unfortunately, this is a costly figure that I am sure nobody here can afford. My suspicion is that if you declare homosexuality or even go as far as getting caught in a homosexual act, they will still find a reason to claim that you are "faking it" and keep you aboard as a crappy GMO, and I do mean a crappy GMO position!

3) Fraternization

There is a long standing rumor that an O-5 got caught having intercourse with a married chief of residents. Guess what, he is still and O-5 and still working at the same place. This un-named chief resident is STILL in the army as a physician. She is now just tasked with crappy jobs. Go ahead, get caught having sex with an enlisted person. They will likely just demote you and send you off to a crappy GMO spot.

4) Drug abuse

Impaired provider programs and ASAP will see right through your antics. Likely, just make you a crappy GMO and attend ASAP, etc.

Overall, don't do it! Any antics you pull will just likely land you a crappy GMO spot and relentless punishment for your acts over the years of committment you have to serve. Worse yet, would you risk jail time?

Fastest way out is to do GMO. Search for a nicer GMO spot and get out! That is the fastest way possible to pay back your time.

 

[american red]

Is GMO the worst officer MOS you could have in the Medical Corps or Medical Service Corps?

 

[sethco]

Fastest way out is to do GMO. Search for a nicer GMO spot and get out! That is the fastest way possible to pay back your time.

Gotta agree. All the complaining and schemeing just isn't worth your time, honor, or integrity. Just do your 3-4 year GMO tour and GTFO. Everybody will be happiest this way

 

[eschott]

Just a quick question for those who find themselves in this dilema: what made you think you were interested in the military life anyways? Getting cold feet the first month in the real world (aka not med school) can happen to anyone, but really trying to get out through violations of the UCMJ has got to be quite the serious attempt. Is there something you know now that you didn't know then? Were you dissalusioned? It seems that there are plenty of people on these boards and everywhere else who will tell you every reason not to join the military.

Best of luck!

PS: I just have to throw in my 2 cents that anyone who (as a comissioned officer of the military) would rather violate constitutional laws (as wells as a sworn oath) than payback an agreed upon time is pretty sad. I would much prefer a gay, drug using doctor over a dishonest one.

 

[deuist]

Is there something you know now that you didn't know then? Were you dissalusioned? It seems that there are plenty of people on these boards and everywhere else who will tell you every reason not to join the military.

* Match rate of 75% overall, and less than 50% for emergency medicine. In the civilian world, match rate for EM is around 94%. My recruiter also lied to me and said that the military's match rate was 95%.
* Applying for two matches, interviewing, and then retrospectively learning that I can't train in the civilian world.
* Poor training locations. I had more trauma experience as a 3rd year medical student than any of the interns of Lackland.
* I did not know of this board when I applied to the military.
* Computer-based training that must be performed on my own time.
* There is no laziness compared to military leadership laziness. I finished my externship 6 weeks ago and still haven't received a grade in a course that's pass/fail. Despite multiple attempts to contact the clerkship director, I still have no grade, and therefore, a blank transcript that's going out to residency programs.

There are plenty of disillusioned people in the Air Force. One of my interviewers gave me a stern "Why do you want to come here?" question only to later admit that she wanted out of the military.