Frats and cheating

[iPLEDGE]

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As you may know, some pharmacy frats pass down test questions and answers to their brothers. As a result of the cheating, the curve is much higher. One day I decided to make an anonymous complaint to the Board of Pharmacy and after that, the curve dropped like the stock market!

 

[67echo]

As you may know, some pharmacy frats pass down test questions and answers to their brothers. As a result of the cheating, the curve is much higher. One day I decided to make an anonymous complaint to the Board of Pharmacy and after that, the curve dropped like the stock market!

okay, so what's your point? That you're a snitch?

 

[iPLEDGE]

okay, so what's your point? That you're a snitch?

If you are fine with cheating, then I am fine with being a snitch. Why should I have to study harder because you need to cheat?

 

[67echo]

If you are fine with cheating, then I am fine with being a snitch. Why should I have to study harder because you need to cheat?

you never answered my question...what is your point?

It sounds like you're making a blanket accusation about fraternities that is totally not true. It maybe true at your school but certainly not for all schools...

 

[iPLEDGE]

It sounds like you're making a blanket accusation about fraternities that is totally not true.

For the record, it was true. They are no longer with the school.

 

[67echo]

For the record, it was true. They are no longer with the school.

so again...your school's fraternity...not all fraternities.

 

[iPLEDGE]

so again...your school's fraternity...not all fraternities.

Again, that is why I wrote "some pharmacy frats". Don't be so defensive.

 

[p-rog]

you never answered my question...what is your point?

It sounds like you're making a blanket accusation about fraternities that is totally not true. It maybe true at your school but certainly not for all schools...

Read*the*first*sentence*of*the*OP*again.

 

[67echo]

Read*the*first*sentence*of*the*OP*again.

I see, "As you may know"...well I don't know...that never happened where I went to school...

 

[iPLEDGE]

I see, "As you may know"...well I don't know...that never happened where I went to school...

Again, no one is accusing you, your school's frat or your school of cheating. I wonder why you are being so defensive?

 

[powertoold]

I support snitchers. Snitchers aren't ******* (like a cat). The people who don't snitch are ******* (a cat).

 

[WhiteSnows]

I like the idea of passing old test down to new students. It is awesome.

 

[powertoold]

I like the idea of passing old test down to new students. It is awesome.

It's the beginning of "pharmacy is about connections and friends." If you're a new student without good connections, you're going to miss out on old exams. At my school, I think everyone gets the old tests, except a few who don't socialize at all.

 

[alenadoma]

I like the idea of passing old test down to new students. It is awesome.

As an incoming student....👍

 

[Allure]

Same thing at my school. We always knew it, but couldn't say anything since we can't prove it until one day, some not-very-smart-individual had the old quiz on the floor while taking the new quiz and was caught by the professor. I mean how stupid is that?? Don't even bother to look at the old quiz before coming to class.

 

[fhx06]

I was expecting a question from the OP... lol.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Same thing at my school. We always knew it, but couldn't say anything since we can't prove it until one day, some not-very-smart-individual had the old quiz on the floor while taking the new quiz and was caught by the professor. I mean how stupid is that?? Don't even bother to look at the old quiz before coming to class.

Some school, like mine, prohibits passing down old tests. This WAS entrusted to student honor, especially from professional students. Well, I guess some people aren't so honorable. Now all classes do not give back tests anymore, only get to look at it after grades come on under supervision.

When some people cheat/don't obey the rules, its honest students that get shafted.

 

[WhiteSnows]

Same thing at my school. We always knew it, but couldn't say anything since we can't prove it until one day, some not-very-smart-individual had the old quiz on the floor while taking the new quiz and was caught by the professor. I mean how stupid is that?? Don't even bother to look at the old quiz before coming to class.

Not all the tests contain the same questions. Try to cheat in pharmacy schools is not a smart thing to do because if one get caught, that is the end of this education.

 

[alenadoma]

I know that it happens at UB all the time, not just in pharmacy school but in undergrad as well.

I'm surprised that so many of you consider it cheating. I don't really think it's cheating -- it's like taking practice PCATs to get a feel for what the questions are like. The more you take, the better you do -- just like with practicing off of old exams.

 

[powertoold]

When some people cheat/don't obey the rules, its honest students that get shafted.

I don't see how honest students got shafted in this case. Honest students have won!

The only thing they've lost is getting back the exams, which isn't really a problem since they can just go see it during OH.

 

[Allure]

Some school, like mine, prohibits passing down old tests. This WAS entrusted to student honor, especially from professional students. Well, I guess some people aren't so honorable. Now all classes do not give back tests anymore, only get to look at it after grades come on under supervision.

When some people cheat/don't obey the rules, its honest students that get shafted.

We don't ever get old exams back. EVER!!! But people still able to sneak it out of the classroom and make a copy of it. I seriously don't know how they do it. It's just too much work for it to even be worth it.

 

[Allure]

I know that it happens at UB all the time, not just in pharmacy school but in undergrad as well.

I'm surprised that so many of you consider it cheating. I don't really think it's cheating -- it's like taking practice PCATs to get a feel for what the questions are like. The more you take, the better you do -- just like with practicing off of old exams.

It's considered cheating when you're not supposed to keep the exams and when the professors use the same questions next year. There is a reason why they don't want students to have the exams. Now if the professor wanted the students to keep the exams, then that's fine. I've had professors in undergrad that even posted old exams for students to see.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I know that it happens at UB all the time, not just in pharmacy school but in undergrad as well.

I'm surprised that so many of you consider it cheating. I don't really think it's cheating -- it's like taking practice PCATs to get a feel for what the questions are like. The more you take, the better you do -- just like with practicing off of old exams.

UB actually has a school-sponsored program to get the old tests to incoming P1s. Many of our teachers recycle questions from year to year, which evidently doesn't bother the school.

I don't see what everyone's issue is with this. Stop being antisocial hermits and get the tests from someone. They're not hard to come across.

 

[xinduetimex]

.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I don't see how honest students got shafted in this case. Honest students have won!

The only thing they've lost is getting back the exams, which isn't really a problem since they can just go see it during OH.

I would like to keep and file my old notes and tests. Do I really need them later, maybe, probably not. But the point is, I would like to keep them just incase, but now I can't. I got those cheaters to thank.

 

[genesis09]

It's not a big deal at UIC because most of the time, the professors do not hand back the exams.

 

[alenadoma]

UB actually has a school-sponsored program to get the old tests to incoming P1s. Many of our teachers recycle questions from year to year, which evidently doesn't bother the school.

I don't see what everyone's issue is with this. Stop being antisocial hermits and get the tests from someone. They're not hard to come across.

I agree. I don't think it is a big deal, and am surprised that so many schools prohibit students from seeing old exams. Maybe profs should stop being so lazy and write some new questions.😀

 

[168533]

If the school is fine with old tests getting passed around, I don't think it's a problem. However, if they specifically state that passing old tests around is a form of cheating then I wouldn't look at the old tests even if someone was to offer them to me. Some professors/schools have different opinions about it.

In undergrad, I had professors who gave out copies of their old tests so students can see the structure of their exams. Some of them even sold their old tests to raise money for clubs. However, the actual tests wasn't the exact copy of the old test. I also had professors who took back all their exams, so we couldn't share. I guess it's just best to make sure your school and professors' policy before engaging in that.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Or maybe the lazy ass professors should right new test questions every year.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Or maybe the lazy ass professors should right new test questions every year.

They could and many do, but the college still has the policy to not pass down old tests. Tests are proprietary material, so they have the right to control its distribution however they see fit.

Nobody has to abide by the rules, but just be ready to suffer the consequences if caught.

 

[confettiflyer]

what would the Board of Pharmacy have to do with anything, anyone complaining to them about anything in-school related is ******ed.

And people pass down questions outside of frats all the time, it's just the word "frat" makes for an easy target.

 

[Venicat]

This really happens at the professional/graduate level? Don't professors rewrite their tests every year? blarg

 

[xiphoid2010]

This really happens at the professional/graduate level? Don't professors rewrite their tests every year? blarg

cheating? hell yeah it happens. I would say there are about half a dozen to dozen well known cheaters. They sit in the back rolls and cheat off each other. But there has only been 1 whistle blower in the class, who got 2 of the cheaters on probation. But you know, the committee is pretty gutless/forgiving. After seeing that nothing really came from the whistle blowing, nobody bothered to report any more. 👎

 

[WVUPharm2007]

cheating? hell yeah it happens. I would say there are about half a dozen to dozen well known cheaters. They sit in the back rolls and cheat off each other. But there has only been 1 whistle blower in the class, who got 2 of the cheaters on probation. But you know, the committee is pretty gutless/forgiving. After seeing that nothing really came from the whistle blowing, nobody bothered to report any more. 👎

Yup. Same at WVU. The year before me, two girls were caught cheating by the dean and professor teaching the class. They both saw it. However, they hired lawyers and the school caved in their attempt to expell them. About 10 or so known cheaters in my original class ('07), too. Nothing ever happened to them or they weren't caught.

Then I forget to retake a test because a professor never emailed me to retake it in a class I already had a passing grade in and they make me repeat a year. To this day I have no idea why they didn't just give me an "incomplete."

The inconsistency is ridiculous. It's all f'n ridiculous. Academia is a bizarre, pretentious world that I hope every day I never have to experience again.

 

[sanrevelle]

Then I forget to retake a test because a professor never emailed me to retake it in a class I already had a passing grade in and they make me repeat a year. To this day I have no idea why they didn't just give me an "incomplete."

The inconsistency is ridiculous. It's all f'n ridiculous. Academia is a bizarre, pretentious world that I hope every day I never have to experience again.

wow, now THAT is screwed up ****!!!

 

[Fuzzychickens]

Yup. Same at WVU. The year before me, two girls were caught cheating by the dean and professor teaching the class. They both saw it. However, they hired lawyers and the school caved in their attempt to expell them. About 10 or so known cheaters in my original class ('07), too. Nothing ever happened to them or they weren't caught.

Wow, these people should not be pharmacists. At least in our school EVERY room where testing is done has enough cameras to cover just about any angle - you cheat and it will probably be caught on camera.

I have no sympathy for cheaters and all the respect in the world for anyone who rats out a cheater.

 

[charfdorn]

Or maybe the lazy ass professors should right new test questions every year.

👍! Not even the whole test, either. Scramble the questions, change half of them, and you're good. Pretty soon you have a rotation you can use. You can still be lazy and try to cut back on the cheating, too.

 

[bluesickle]

This really happens at the professional/graduate level? Don't professors rewrite their tests every year? blarg

I'd imagine. Why else would so many interviewers ask what you'd do if you caught a classmate cheating?

 

[Farmercyst]

what would the Board of Pharmacy have to do with anything, anyone complaining to them about anything in-school related is ******ed.

And people pass down questions outside of frats all the time, it's just the word "frat" makes for an easy target.

That's what I wanna know. I snitched to the board and the curve drops as if one led directly to the other.

 

[bigpharmD]

this is dumb...i was in non-pharm frat and a pharm frat....just do what you need to...you can get anything you want if the dumb profs are using the same questions...dont blame on the frat that you are dumb

 

[inquirer89]

This is OT, but how are the frats in pharm school? Are they similar to undergrad or more professional? I was kind of turned off by the croakie-wearing frat guys at my undergrad but am open to the idea of pharmacy frats.

 

[FORTLIVINGROOM]

As you may know, some pharmacy frats pass down test questions and answers to their brothers. As a result of the cheating, the curve is much higher. One day I decided to make an anonymous complaint to the Board of Pharmacy and after that, the curve dropped like the stock market!

I thought this was fitting:

67echo was spot-on. It's not like you said, "hey, what do you guys think about cheating?" or, "Hey, I don't think frats should cheat!"

You were just like, "Yo, I'm a snitch." OK, good for you. I can't imagine it would affect the curve that much...I'm gonna bet you're exaggerating a bit there just to show your bitchness. Jealous of them? I never did the frat thing, but there were just as many people who weren't in frats and knew upperclassmen that had old exams.

 

[rphello]

This is OT, but how are the frats in pharm school? Are they similar to undergrad or more professional? I was kind of turned off by the croakie-wearing frat guys at my undergrad but am open to the idea of pharmacy frats.

At my school they were similar to an undergrad fraternity in that it was an excuse to have parties. Well, one fraternity had many social gatherings and helped the community on occasion, and the other one embraced the party atmosphere wholeheartedly.

It was well known that the fraternities had some tests or at least some of the answers. Trickle-down test economics didn't work so well at my school. But hey, like most posters in this thread have said, it's okay if everyone else does it. It's your fault for not joining a fraternity. Do what you've got to do, crush the opposition, blah blah blah.

 

[tekim]

we have the option of purchasing old exams through one of the organizations... $3-4 bucks per class for the semester - packet includes all exams for the class going back about 3 years

though emphasis on certain material may change from year to year, and the order in which its taught may be different, but still...

pretty sweet

 

[tootoo30]

I still don't see what one has to do with the other, okay yeah they cheated, but if you had studied LOL you would have been on the top of the curve anyway LOL I could care less what anyone is doing while I'm taking a test, I'm too busy trying to figure some of these DUMP *** questions out LOL

I know for a fact that at the school I'm applying to, the only exam that's illegal to have is the final, so does that mean I shouldn't look at an old test or quiz other than the final if it should present itself, you must be on dope or dog food if you believe that, matter of fact I will take those test in a heart beat!

 

[RutgersEMSOP10]

It's an ethical decision. At RU it is expressly forbidden in the academic integrity policy to use/obtain/give any resources that is not available to all students. It clearly includes old exams and labs being passed down. AZO has gotten into some trouble, but nothing serious due to lack of absolute evidence. But it is grounds for expulsion if caught.

If you are of the mind that this is a stupid policy that should not be followed and that people who do not partake must be "losers" - that is your perogative. Just be pepared to justify your actions in front of a disciplinary panel when caught. In fact, consider it practice for all those "dumb" rules you don't want to follow when practicing pharmacy and end up in front of a judge...

 

[iPLEDGE]

If cheating is not a big deal, then why is it done with such secrecy? If you want to cheat, then that's your choice but it is also my choice to report you to the Board of Pharmacy and the ACPE. All it takes is a simple email. It is that simple. =)

 

[iPLEDGE]

Yup. Same at WVU. The year before me, two girls were caught cheating by the dean and professor teaching the class. They both saw it. However, they hired lawyers and the school caved in their attempt to expell them.

If you had reported it to the ACPE or Board of Pharmacy, then the school would have no choice but to go forward with the expulsion.

 

[rphello]

It's an ethical decision. At RU it is expressly forbidden in the academic integrity policy to use/obtain/give any resources that is not available to all students. It clearly includes old exams and labs being passed down. AZO has gotten into some trouble, but nothing serious due to lack of absolute evidence. But it is grounds for expulsion if caught.

If you are of the mind that this is a stupid policy that should not be followed and that people who do not partake must be "losers" - that is your perogative. Just be pepared to justify your actions in front of a disciplinary panel when caught. In fact, consider it practice for all those "dumb" rules you don't want to follow when practicing pharmacy and end up in front of a judge...

Don't be a dumb dummy, everyone does it so it must be okay. Success is about seizing opportunities and crushing the foolish and weak. You must make your own path, or at least follow the path that someone else made and everyone else happens to take. If you don't do that, you're just a dumb snitch. Join the club and laugh at the fools who didn't pay the dues.

 

[powertoold]

Don't be a dumb dummy, everyone does it so it must be okay. Success is about seizing opportunities and crushing the foolish and weak. You must make your own path, or at least follow the path that someone else made and everyone else happens to take. If you don't do that, you're just a dumb snitch. Join the club and laugh at the fools who didn't pay the dues.

No.