It's just that these cut offs create a possibility of an MD taking the USMLE and never becoming a resident in the US, which is difficult for the US citizens, especially if they get stuck with a USMLE score that they can't change. If they are to have score criteria, then I would hope that they make it so that someone can retake the USMLE to improve their score, but of course that hasn't happened yet.
Yes, this is true. I'm not sure this is completely unfair. You go to a medical school outside the US, where no one is regulating it and I have no idea how good your education is, and then pass an exam. I don't see that as guaranteeing you anything.
There have been several threads on whether US Citizen IMG's should get preference to non-US citizen IMG's. Usually three arguments are made:
1) US Citizens pay taxes, and since residencies are paid with tax dollars it's only fair that UC citizens who paid into the tax system get the spots.
I don't buy this. Taxes are not a "I paid $X in, so I should get $X out". And, as a student, you personally have probably (although it would depend on how much work you did) pay much taxes in. And if someone came from an indigent family background, they might not have paid any taxes in.
2) US Citizens get gov't backed loans, so taxpayers are on the hook if they default, so we should make sure they don't default.
Honestly, I think this argues that US gov't backed loans should not be allowed for international schools, rather than guaranteeing residency spots.
3) Other countries don't let non citizens train or given them only leftovers, so we should do the same.
Just because other people/countries do something isn't a good reason for us to do it.
Even my immigrant parents agree on the unfairness that the US residency programs can't even take US citizens as opposed to someone who does not reside here in the states.
Your parents aren't exactly unbiased in this situation.
But really I wish everyone could get into residency. The world would be a happier place.
And I wish that I got a free vacation to Mexico every year.
Why not instead of cutoffs posting average USMLE scores (broken down between US Seniors and IMGs) and the middle 50 spread like every undergrad and medical school does. That way you dont have to commit to a cut off but we know our realitive chances.
This is an interesting request. It's not likely to happen. Medical school MCAT and GPA ranges are probably all very similar, I expect there is some spread but not much, so schools don't have much to lose by reporting this.
USMLE score ranges probably vary widely between programs, and programs don't want to be "ranked" based on their USMLE averages, which is CERTAINLY what would happen.
Also, a downstream effect of this would be to make USMLE scores MORE important in the selection process. If the ranking of my program depended on the average USMLE score, I'm more likely to take people with higher USMLE scores.
I believe that only the most recent score is reported by the filter. I don't believe # of attempts is a possible filter.
Correct. Note that the most recent always equals your highest score.
if the system is to remain the way it is, and if that many IMG US citizens can't get into US residency due to score criteria and heavy competition, shouldn't something be done about it so that they can have a job somehow in the United States? Maybe there can be some way for these residents to improve so they can definitely get in. it is very difficult to get a job as a US IMG and even as a nonUS IMG.
You decided to go to a foreign country for medical school.
In doing so, you took US dollars and spent them in a foreign country, hence worsening our trade deficit.
Your school is not accredited by any US body, and we have no idea how good it is.
You then come back to the US, and somehow we must "definitely get you in" to a residency program? I don't exactly see that we owe you anything.
There are 25,520 spots in the Match with 33,534 total applicants. 3942 are US IMGS (1204 didn't match), 9,987 are nonUS IMGs (3291 didn't match--meaning 6696 did! and meaning they are often preferred over a US citizen as 1204 US IMG's + 949 US grads didn't match) . 17,127 are US grads (949 didn't match). This scramble only had 414 PGY1 positions and 46 PGY2 positions for thousands of left out IMG's to compete for.
It is not too much to ask for a US citizen to get preference, only 1204 nonUS IMG's will be displaced out of the match, but the rest still can get the positions, which is a lot (9987 - 1204 - 949 = 7834 of them!).
Ignoring the numbers (which don't line up with my read of the NRMP 2010 tables, but that's not really relevant), the question remains why inferior US IMG's should be given precedence over superior FMG's, the arguments I have discussed above.
Shouldn't there be a system put in place so that some of these repeats will eventually get in..like a program for residents to improve their application (because i know that research doesn't help that much and puts you further from your medical education)..it's not right that people that went to med school have to be out of a job.
Here are your answers: the government, ECFMG, ACGME, or the current program directors should do something about it. or anyone for that matter who can do something. It is a democracy so the people rule, and even minorities should get chances too. A program for residents may consist of maybe a year of clinical resident work that doesn't count toward a degree, but is at least paid and is a place to learn and improve any possible deficiences. There are very few places that offer this...(PAs or medical assistants do this these days but I think they should allow for MD's to do that too, there are not that many of them anyways, at least 2000 or less. You can't be a PA or MA unless you are certified specifically for that, and that makes an MD have to go back to school and spend more $$ for a job they may not even get yet again). They used to allow MD's to do PA work but since the PA was created now they want certification and i know it is about money making schemes.
You do raise some interesting questions / ideas. First, I see a big difference between "further education to make me a better doctor" and "a job which pays money". If I were to hire you as a medical assistant, I would expect you to work as a medical assistant. I would not be willing to pay you to shadow me, present cases to me, discuss patient management with me, etc. So, you probably can get a job as an MA but I would expect that to simply be taking BP's, putting patients into rooms, etc. I don't think that would be very helpful towards your goal of getting a residency.
If you're going to shadow me around, learn, etc, that's a volunteer position. There are plenty of physicians around who might let you do that, but I don't see anyone giving you a salary and benefits for this.
It doesn't have to be government sponsored, it could be sponsored by the people of the country--basically anyone. Tax payers dont have to pay if it weren't government.
I really don't know what you're trying to say here. The "people of the country" is the government. If you mean that some person somewhere should pay for you to get more experience, that's not realistic unless you can find a job where you can be productive, yet gain clinical experience.
The one possibility often raised is being a PA. As you mention, there is the obvious politics where those who have PA degrees do not want to be displaced by foreign MD's. You could imagine that if foreign MD's could simply be hired as PA's, we might see all US PA's out of a job, and you still have the same quality control issues -- just because someone has a foreign MD or equivalent, how do we know that they really know clinical medicine? And the USMLE or similar exam is not acceptable proof.
I dont see why taxpayers are paying for US IMGs' to be left out of their own country by sponsoring more of those on visas, not that i have anything against them it's just about fairness.
The cost to US taxpayers is exactly the same wether a USIMG or an FMG gets a spot. If the FMG is a "better" applicant, then the US taxpayer is getting the better deal with them.
A resident education should be an education, not a regular job where someone can threaten and ruin you. it is called GME (Graduate Medical Education)....so its not really supposed to be a job at all they're supposed to teach.
In that case, you'd pay me tuition to attend. And people get kicked out of school all the time.
I mean why doesnt anyone want to help a future resident in need at all? people seem selfish to not offer more of that and yet ask a poor resident to pay them $2000+ per month to rotate with them and get an LOR that may or may not be good. IT's awful!
Because untrained residents only slow me down. Why should I pay you if you don't improve my bottom line?
i wish they had some way we could get in i mean its like a whole career lost which I pretty much worked my entire life to go into.
Sadly, as others here have been trying to tell you, the only one to blame here is yourself. You went to an offshore school. You didn't do very well on the USMLE, the only standardized assessment we have of your skills. Despite this, you got into two different residencies yet couldn't finish either. You seem to think that none of this is your fault.
with the 2nd one i did did not give me a reason why they wouldn't let me continue. i only had 2 months to go. i think that wasn't good of them at all to do that. im trying to get them to let me finish because i was already in good standing. im right now waiting for a response.
As others have mentioned, if your performance had been really satisfactory, they would have let you continue. Most likely they told you that your performance was not satisfactory, and you missed it / didn't clue in to it. Much like the way you are not listening to the advice you are getting here.
and btw im not an a**hat at all.....i dont even know what that is supposed to mean either! please dont even tell me! sounds gross!
?). Guess what? Yale Anesthesia and OBGYN went to scramble this year. UMD and Emory went to scramble in IM. There arent issues with you getting a residency. There are issues with people like you, who feel a sense of entitlement (mostly when they dont deserve it) and will not take what comes their way - regardless of what is the competitiveness (or lack thereof) of their application.
