From a 4.0 Student: Why GPA shouldn't matter

[paranoid_eyes]

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wth? how can gpa not matter????

honestly, no matter how you look at it, a 4.0 student is academically more deft than a 3.5 student. medical school is VERY academically focused (just ask a med student how much they study). Therefore, if you have proved that you ahve what it takes, then why should they accept the 3.5 student over the 4.0 student???
also, even if you took the easiest schedules with the lightest loads, we all have to take the same prereq courses. if you got A's in ochem, physics, etc. while someone else got B's, it means taht the person who got the A's is more studious.
But i agree, MCAT is the great equalizer. that's why it is so important to have BOTH a high gpa and a high MCAT score (having one and not the other raises eyebrows)

 

[Vihsadas]

wth? how can gpa not matter????
honestly, no matter how you look at it, a 4.0 student is academically more deft than a 3.5 student.

Maybe within the same school...But its never that cut and dry. Schools like Reed have such a low average and such a small number of 'high GPAers'. How can you say that a Reed 3.5er is definitely going to be less qualified than someone who graduated summa cum laude from a not so good state school? Then there's schools like mine which do not grade based on any curve, and its very difficult to maintain an average close to 3.75. The course content and difficulty for the pre-req courses is not constant across schools. Furthermore, I'd much rather take someone who managed a 3.6 in 6 courses than someone who got a 4.0 in four courses. Put me up against any UGA 4.0 student. I dare ya. (No offence UGAers haha 😉 all in good fun...)

 

[nevercold]

I got tired of reading and just felt like putting in my own comment, so sorry if I say something someone else already said...

1) McGill is a great medical school. Obviously not US News&World Report ranked b/c it's not in the US. McGill is up there with any of 'em. I know brilliant physicians who went to school there.

2) No matter what medical schools judge applicants by, there are going to be applicants who take those criteria and tailor their lives to them. GPA, course selection, extracurriculars, time in hospitals, time in clinics, MCATs. It doesn't matter which, people will pander to that.

3) MCAT = important. If you can't take a standardized exam, how are you going to pass three USMLE exams and a board exam for your specialty? How is anyone else gonna know you learned what you need to know?

4) GPA = important. Can you study and do well at the things you supposedly care about?

5) Credit load = important. Can you handle lots of work? Med school is lots of work. BUT, are you smart enough to not take on way more than you can handle?

You SHOULD play the med school admissions game in the respect that being successful in school, with the MCAT, and in gaining meaningful experiences -- all of which are expected of you for a successful application -- are good things. If you don't then look at these requirements and try to use your time spent on them to develop yourself as well as the details you put on paper, that's your foolish mistake. You only live once.

Sorry just drove 6 hours grr people need to learn how to drive. Done ranting 🙂

 

[Doctor J]

Lets be frank about, the difference in difficulty between the top 30 schools and the rest are a joke.

This is false. You couldn't possibly know this unless you went to a top 30 and also one of 'the rest'.

Believe me, at my medical school, we have graduates of very prestigious undergraduate institutions and graduates of state schools, and anecdotally speaking, they are all equivalently intelligent.

Going to a prestigious undergraduate school is a decision many make because they value the name on the degree, not because they believe they will be challenged more or receive a higher quality education. In my humble opinion.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

This is false. You couldn't possibly know this unless you went to a top 30 and also one of 'the rest'.

Believe me, at my medical school, we have graduates of very prestigious undergraduate institutions and graduates of state schools, and anecdotally speaking, they are all equivalently intelligent.

Going to a prestigious undergraduate school is a decision many make because they value the name on the degree, not because they believe they will be challenged more or receive a higher quality education. In my humble opinion.

I agree with this. Unless you go to MIT or CAL Tech or some ridiculous LAC, the difference in difficulty is minimal. Ive taken classes at a top 30 school (UNC) and it wasnt any more difficult maybe even easier than my current institution.

 

[michiganblue08]

I understand that. But the important thing is how the school is viewed in terms of medical school admissions. McGill is considered in the 'top tier' of universities by the admissions committees of US medical schools. So for our purposes, McGill is a top tier university.

Most of the Canadian universities are accredited and recognized by the AAMC, and are fully recognized as institutions that meet the prerequisite course requirements for any US medical school. Unlike students who attend undergraduate universities in Europe or other continents, if a student goes to a Canadian university, his prerequisites are counted without having to take a year of medical prerequisites in the USA to be eligible for US medical school admissions.

So by that measure, McGill may as well be a 'Top 20' or 'Top tier' school for US medical school admissions purposes. Admissions committees will consider it as such.

It's International, but is considered 'American' when referring to prereqs and such. It's one of the Top Canadian Universities along with University of Toronto. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's 12th in the world right now according to the Times-Highler Supplement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THES_-_QS_World_University_Rankings

Can you please get off your high horse? Americans don't really care about Canada 😱 or have great respect for their institutions. Internationally, we just know about Oxford and a few know Cambridge. Sorry And even though i only heard about McGill 20 minutes ago, and you are the only person i've heard of that went there, i can conclude that people from this school are arrogant almost to the point of delusion.

 

[paranoid_eyes]

Maybe within the same school...But its never that cut and dry. Put me up against any UGA 4.0 student. I dare ya. (No offence UGAers haha 😉 all in good fun...)

you're assuming things. no one knows REALLY how hard another school is until they have taken classes at both schools. that's why where you go to school doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You can't hold it against me for going to a state school, there are tons of factors that may have influenced that decision. Yes, ivy's will make a positive impression compared to a state university, but at the end of the day, high gpa's will get you MUCH farther than a low gpa. (im just talking numbers-wise. EC"s and the like are VERY VERY important)

 

[xrevision]

I definitely think GPA should matter, but only because I have to work so hard to maintain mine.

 

[Vihsadas]

Can you please get off your high horse? Americans don't really care about Canada 😱 or have great respect for their institutions. Internationally, we just know about Oxford and a few know Cambridge. Sorry And even though i only heard about McGill 20 minutes ago, and you are the only person i've heard of that went there, i can conclude that people from this school are arrogant almost to the point of delusion.

I was defending myself and answering a question that was asked directly: "Top 20 according to who?" What's really delusional is the assumption that you can judge me, and a whole university by two posts of mine on a message board. (Although McGill is pretentious. hahaha.) It's also amusing that you speak for the entire country. Maybe you're just uninformed or delusional, or both?

you're assuming things. no one knows REALLY how hard another school is until they have taken classes at both schools. that's why where you go to school doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You can't hold it against me for going to a state school, there are tons of factors that may have influenced that decision. Yes, ivy's will make a positive impression compared to a state university, but at the end of the day, high gpa's will get you MUCH farther than a low gpa. (im just talking numbers-wise. EC"s and the like are VERY VERY important)

I'm not disagreeing with you. I was just picking out UGA because I have buds that go there. 😛

Strictly speaking, you are RIGHT, you can't judge a university until you've taken classes there, etc. etc. Then again, I knew quite a few people that went to UGA and I know their study habits. UGA is a good school for many disciplines, but I just didn't see the neurotic, crazed, science-degree imposed fervor in their science student's eyes 😛, and there is a lack of scientific research being pursued there.

But at the same time, it's still unfair in my opinion to take a 3.4 engy grad from Caltech or MIT, or say a double major of most flavors and have them be docked simply because of their numbers...but then again, how else are adcoms expected to do it? It's just unrealistic to expect them to comb through everyone's degree and school to come to a decision; the process has to pick applicants somehow.

I would also agree/suspect that there are a greater number of extremely hard work-ing, intelligent people with higher numbers than those without...and yes I also know that many state schools are extremely difficult (Ga Tech, anyone?).

I didn't mean to insinuate anything with my generalizations. I was just pointing out that there are differences between course difficulty between some universities. I would not go so far as to say what another implied; something along the lines of "Lets be frank about, the difference in difficulty between the top 30 schools and the rest are a joke."
I don't really believe that's true at all.

 

[dienekes88]

GPA is essentially a gauge of your willingness to play by a strict set of rules. You study a certain amount, you avoid going out too often, you cut back on some of the more time-consuming ECs, etc. It matters, because everyone knows that it matters. If everyone's working to get that elusive 4.0, then actually having one is all the more impressive. This is because, like the name of your school, a high GPA demonstrate that you are in fact willing to work harder and play the admissions game better than your fellow pre-meds. Med schools, like employers, want to think that you're able to do the work required to be successful.

If you throw down a high GPA, you're asking a med school, "you guys like people who work hard... how do you like them apples?" They will respond, "I like them apples lots."

 

[RapplixGmed]

It seems to me that getting a 4.0 takes {hard work, luck, easy classes} (choose 2). Sometimes no matter how hard you work, you might still get that one crazy professor so there is some luck involved too. In the grand scheme of things though, getting more than 3.8 or 3.9 should be considered essentially equivalent to a 4.0 anyways. That would give people more leeway to go out and explore their interests.

 

[RySerr21]

It seems to me that getting a 4.0 takes {hard work, luck, easy classes} (choose 2). Sometimes no matter how hard you work, you might still get that one crazy professor so there is some luck involved too. In the grand scheme of things though, getting more than 3.8 or 3.9 should be considered essentially equivalent to a 4.0 anyways. That would give people more leeway to go out and explore their interests.

i would delete the "luck" option based on how you defined it. i've never gone into a class not knowing exactly who my professor is, teaching style/difficulty, likeability, accessability, etc.

maybe thats an advantage of going to a small school?