From a "passion" to a "job"

[CuriousKat]

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Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm having a "mid-training crisis" and was hoping for some guidance or perspective. I'm currently a PGY-2 in a competitive field. Great program, great people, no issues there. My one goal since childhood has been to become a physician. I saw becoming a physician as the ultimate achievement in life. Like many others, I prioritized getting into the best college/med school/residency over social life, family, hobbies, other life experiences. Medicine was my passion and my calling and no sacrifice seemed too great.

Fast forward a decade (I will spare you all the details). Medicine is no longer a passion. It is simply a job...a job that I dislike many days. I feel like the cost/benefit ratio of a career in medicine is favorable if you value medicine over family/friends/interests/etc. If medicine becomes a job, the long work hours/declining reimbursement/entitled patients/medicolegal climate/stressful work/etc make the cost/benefit ratio, in my opinion, very unfavorable.

After accepting this realization, that medicine simply isn't "worth it," I have had some difficulty dealing with the time I have lost the last 6 years. Even more troubling, I realize I have a few more years before I could have a more normal life. Unfortunately, for me, working and studying 80 hours/week is simply not compatable with much of a social life. If I had any extra time, I would prefer to sleep 8 hours a night rather than 6.

My biggest motivation at the moment is an ethical obligation to become the best physician I can be even if I regret pursuing medicine in the first place. Of course debt is also an issue. The only light at the end of the tunnel for me is the ability to work half the year or less when I'm done and still do well enough financially. With all of the time spent, it seems like a waste.

Long story I know. My question is, for those of you who lost your passion for medicine, how did you deal with it? Did you ever get the passion back? How do you deal with the regret of pursuing medicine in the first place?

I am committed to becoming the best physician I can be, again primarily out of ethical considerations to society and a personal commitment to do my best. I'm just not sure how to continue my career with this baggage.

 

[IndyXRT]

I think many physicians, if they are brutally honest with themselves, will have similar feelings. You do end up sacrificing a lot to get where you want to go in medicine, especially if you started as far back as HS (I didn't decide to go to medical school until my senior year of college, so I may not be talking from the same starting point here). However, at this point, as a PGY 2, my best advice is to find a way to get past this.

Sure, medicine may seem more like a job, but on most days, it's a great job! I truly enjoy coming in to see my patients. Sometimes I regret the time I've lost and, perhaps, if I had it to do all over, I would choose a different route. But I don't think that perspective would be unique to only physicians; there is a natural tendency to look at people who chose other paths through life and think "what if?"

Just because medicine no longer seems like a passion to you, doesn't mean that you can't enjoy what you are doing and have a fulfilling life. Sorry you're feeling down; I hope you're able to find the brighter side of medicine.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm having a "mid-training crisis" and was hoping for some guidance or perspective. I'm currently a PGY-2 in a competitive field. Great program, great people, no issues there. My one goal since childhood has been to become a physician. I saw becoming a physician as the ultimate achievement in life. Like many others, I prioritized getting into the best college/med school/residency over social life, family, hobbies, other life experiences. Medicine was my passion and my calling and no sacrifice seemed too great.

Fast forward a decade (I will spare you all the details). Medicine is no longer a passion. It is simply a job...a job that I dislike many days. I feel like the cost/benefit ratio of a career in medicine is favorable if you value medicine over family/friends/interests/etc. If medicine becomes a job, the long work hours/declining reimbursement/entitled patients/medicolegal climate/stressful work/etc make the cost/benefit ratio, in my opinion, very unfavorable.

After accepting this realization, that medicine simply isn't "worth it," I have had some difficulty dealing with the time I have lost the last 6 years. Even more troubling, I realize I have a few more years before I could have a more normal life. Unfortunately, for me, working and studying 80 hours/week is simply not compatable with much of a social life. If I had any extra time, I would prefer to sleep 8 hours a night rather than 6.

My biggest motivation at the moment is an ethical obligation to become the best physician I can be even if I regret pursuing medicine in the first place. Of course debt is also an issue. The only light at the end of the tunnel for me is the ability to work half the year or less when I'm done and still do well enough financially. With all of the time spent, it seems like a waste.

Long story I know. My question is, for those of you who lost your passion for medicine, how did you deal with it? Did you ever get the passion back? How do you deal with the regret of pursuing medicine in the first place?

I am committed to becoming the best physician I can be, again primarily out of ethical considerations to society and a personal commitment to do my best. I'm just not sure how to continue the next 30 years of my career with this baggage.

I am no where near as deep in as you are, but have been undergoing a similar crisis of sorts in the recent past. I am a devoutly religious person and I wish to live my life for God's purposes. Most of all, I do fear death, and even worse - a meaningless life. Since I was a child, I've been pushed into medicine by various factors - my parents directly, my parents' difficult financial situation and poor economic stability (the desire for stability in my life was a great one), my own interests in science, in learning, and - yes - in prestige and respect. I've learned so far that none of these things give me happiness because there is no eternal meaning in any career.

Medicine IS just a job. I started realizing it last year and increasingly now. Research IS just something that hundreds of thousands/millions of people do and it mostly has little impact on society, civilization, and the world. Only a lucky few - not even necessarily the most industrious - end up discovering or inventing something of lasting value for others. And even then, death comes to all, and being remembered by others or knowing, as you die, that you've improved their lives in some way, is neither capable of averting death, nor can it have any meaning (to you) once you're dead.

So, my approach from now on is to consider medicine/research as just a job, to hope some day to get through it all, to use the skills I've learned to be able to come into contact with ailing people and tell them about my personal beliefs about salvation/afterlife, to have care and attention to a suffering fellow creature, etc. Medicine is very powerful that way. In many cases, you have an "inner access" to people's deepest sentiments and are able to move them that way. This is a far deeper and more fulfilling thing than the physical treatment you provide. Also, it's a relatively stable career, a well-paying one, and a flexible one. If you really want, you CAN work 1/2 a year and spend the other half doing whatever - spending time with friends and family, seeing the world, writing, or pursuing whatever your real passion happens to be. Many other jobs in this world don't have that convenience - either the flexibility or the pay to sustain that kind of life.

I commend your dedication to becoming the best possible doctor for your patients. At this stage, I would just say that you're lucky to see things this way now rather than on your deathbed; many people strive and strive and strive - through career setbacks and failed marriages and children that they don't know or who hate them, etc. You KNOW that there's no deep meaning to you in this career, and so you have the remainder of your life to find its meaning and to enjoy relationships with people you love. My advice: finish the residency, become the best trained doctor you can be for your patients, and then pursue the life you wish rather than what society and colleagues expect.

 

[Sneezing]

One can live magnificently in this world, if one knows how to work and how to love, to work for the person one loves, and to love one's work. -Tolstoy

 

[CuriousKat]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate your perspectives. Mercaptovizadeh, although I am not very religious, I think out perspectives are somewhat similar. We all have to decide what our purpose or goal in life is. I have come to the realization belatedly that my primary goal is to have as much free time as possible. Time to sleep 8 hours a night, read, hike, swim, surf, go out, travel, date, LIVE. Obviously, residency (and even attending life) are not very compatable with this. I would be happy to live in a 200 sqft studio and eat ramen for the rest of my life to have the freedom to do what I want. Although I once was open to having a family, I would consider remaining single just to achieve my "freedom" earlier. I have been using financial calculators to figure out exactly how much money I need to bank prior to retirement to live my desired humble lifestyle indefinitely off the interest. I realize this is really absurd and ridiculous. I also feel some sense of guilt for even feeling this way-I feel like I'm wasting my training.

Anyway, I know there is no easy answer. I'm planning to finish residency, work 10 years and save every dime, then quit. It just seems like a really stupid way to spend years 22-42 of your life (if you feel like I do). I feel like I should have just done engineering/law/dentistry/etc because I would have ended up at the same place with less stress.

Anyone else have a dramatic change in priorities during your training? I can't be the only one who wants to surf and eat ramen forever 😉

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate your perspectives. Mercaptovizadeh, although I am not very religious, I think out perspectives are somewhat similar. We all have to decide what our purpose or goal in life is. I have come to the realization belatedly that my primary goal is to have as much free time as possible. Time to sleep 8 hours a night, read, hike, swim, surf, go out, travel, date, LIVE. Obviously, residency (and even attending life) are not very compatable with this. I would be happy to live in a 200 sqft studio and eat ramen for the rest of my life to have the freedom to do what I want. Although I once was open to having a family, I would consider remaining single just to achieve my "freedom" earlier. I have been using financial calculators to figure out exactly how much money I need to bank prior to retirement to live my desired humble lifestyle indefinitely off the interest. I realize this is really absurd and ridiculous. I also feel some sense of guilt for even feeling this way-I feel like I'm wasting my training.

Anyway, I know there is no easy answer. I'm planning to finish residency, work 10 years and save every dime, then quit. It just seems like a really stupid way to spend years 22-42 of your life (if you feel like I do). I feel like I should have just done engineering/law/dentistry/etc because I would have ended up at the same place with less stress.

Anyone else have a dramatic change in priorities during your training? I can't be the only one who wants to surf and eat ramen forever 😉

Perhaps you are wary of revealing your residency field, but for a lot of fields either part time or locum tenens work is a real possibility - especially things like anesthesia, IM, peds, EM, etc. You could accept locum tenens assignments for, say 6-8 months a year, work hard during those, and then spend the other 6-4 months doing other things. If you're not a surgeon, there's really a lot more flexibility than you may have imagined.

As for the Tolstoy quote, he was an aristocrat and independently wealthy. I admire his work and ideas immensely, but he was given both the time to write those great literary works and also the time to consider the purpose of his life. He did not have to deal so much with the mundane labor of the working class. You may be interested in the fact that he was obsessed with death and felt that a meaningless life was not worth living and contemplated suicide at one point.

My feeling is that you shouldn't give up working entirely before you are in your 60s or at least 50s. Work a good few decades (reduced hours, if you choose). You might not realize that honest labor does fill a void we all have. Many people who are truly independently wealthy end up spending their entire lives in pleasure and frivolity and are not at all satisfied by that. I'm sure it's enjoyable for a while, but it probably wears off after a while. In the end, we live in a finite world - given the opportunity, there's only so many places you can see before they start blending together, only so many things you could learn, tastes you could experience, etc. Eventually, the fountain runs dry and you may find yourself in the same position you are in now.

I don't know if I'm quoting this or coming up with it, but I think I once heard this statement, and I think it's true: this world is too small for man.

 

[LadyGrey]

So, my approach from now on is to consider medicine/research as just a job, to hope some day to get through it all, to use the skills I've learned to be able to come into contact with ailing people and tell them about my personal beliefs about salvation/afterlife, to have care and attention to a suffering fellow creature, etc.

😱

You sounded like a very thoughtful, compassionate, generally admirable person in your post, Mercapto, then I hit the phrase I bolded. Any doctor who did that to me would find him/herself no longer my doctor. I don't think I'm alone -- both nonbelievers and patients of a different religion than yours would find being preached at by the person they've gone to for medical advice highly offensive. If you want to minister to people's spiritual needs, you should be a priest/minister/etc, not a physician.

 

[Samoa]

😱

You sounded like a very thoughtful, compassionate, generally admirable person in your post, Mercapto, then I hit the phrase I bolded. Any doctor who did that to me would find him/herself no longer my doctor. I don't think I'm alone -- both nonbelievers and patients of a different religion than yours would find being preached at by the person they've gone to for medical advice highly offensive. If you want to minister to people's spiritual needs, you should be a priest/minister/etc, not a physician.

Seconded. You have a fiduciary duty with regard to your patients' health, and it is completely inappropriate to proselytize in that context. No matter how strongly your own faith demands it.

 

[Cologist]

So, my approach from now on is to consider medicine/research as just a job, to hope some day to get through it all, to use the skills I've learned to be able to come into contact with ailing people and tell them about my personal beliefs about salvation/afterlife, to have care and attention to a suffering fellow creature, etc. Medicine is very powerful that way. In many cases, you have an "inner access" to people's deepest sentiments and are able to move them that way.

You are using your "inner access to people's deepest sentiments" and use this to move them YOUR way, the way YOU think is the right path to salvation and afterlife. Because you, of all people, is so omnipotent, that you know, for sure that your way is the only way to salvation.

In other words, you are using people who sick and vulnerable and convert them to your way of thinking. You don't have "care and attention to a fellow creature", you just care about sharing your agenda with impressionable individuals.

I totally agree with LadyGrey. This is way out of line. This kind of attitude is morally questionable and prevents you, in many, many ways, to be the best doctor you can be for your patients.

 

[McGillGrad]

Religious people (who are intending to spread their zealousness) are dangerously delusional. But that's for another thread.

To the OP, we all go through certain phases in our social and professional journeys. I suspect that your thoughts are a healthy introspection of the sacrifices you have endured. With that being said, residency is not a true representation of medicine. It is a quasi-professional apprenticeship.

Real medicine is molded by you and will give ample opportunity to reignite your passion. Just as you did in med school, grin and bear the nest couple years and re-evaluate your position when you are a true independent physician, not an indentured slave of your program.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

😱

You sounded like a very thoughtful, compassionate, generally admirable person in your post, Mercapto, then I hit the phrase I bolded. Any doctor who did that to me would find him/herself no longer my doctor. I don't think I'm alone -- both nonbelievers and patients of a different religion than yours would find being preached at by the person they've gone to for medical advice highly offensive. If you want to minister to people's spiritual needs, you should be a priest/minister/etc, not a physician.

Don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply at length. Historically, people were not so offended by something like an offer of prayer or the doctor providing his/her own perspective on issues such as life, death, illness, suffering, etc. Who said I'd force anything down anyone's throat? On the other hand, I am a human being - not a robot - and I see no reason why my "fiduciary duty" to care for others' health is harmed by telling them about my beliefs, if they are open to my doing so, of course.

Anyway, knowing where this country is heading regarding this issue, I realize full well that there are plenty of people who see this from your angle and would desire termination of a doctor who offered to pray for his patient, or told his questioning patient what he believed regarding various moral/spiritual issues. That's why I think this sort of practice is perhaps more feasible in a foreign country.

Again, let's get back on topic - CuriosKat's OP.

 

[McGillGrad]

You are dangerous person.

Jesus would be very disappointed to hear that you consider yourself a Christian.

Don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply at length. Historically, people were not so offended by something like an offer of prayer or the doctor providing his/her own perspective on issues such as life, death, illness, suffering, etc. Who said I'd force anything down anyone's throat? On the other hand, I am a human being - not a robot - and I see no reason why my "fiduciary duty" to care for others' health is harmed by telling them about my beliefs, if they are open to my doing so, of course.

Anyway, knowing where this country is heading regarding this issue, I realize full well that there are plenty of people who see this from your angle and would desire termination of a doctor who offered to pray for his patient, or told his questioning patient what he believed regarding various moral/spiritual issues. That's why I think this sort of practice is perhaps more feasible in a foreign country.

Again, let's get back on topic - CuriosKat's OP.

 

[dragonfly99]

kat,
I think part of what you are saying is just normal midresidency burnout. It sounds like you are in a pretty good field (maybe derm, rads or anesthesia, etc.). Hopefully you are not in one of the "hard" surgical fields like trauma surg or neurosurg, in which case the lifestyle won't get a lot better after residency. I can tell you that you'll have more control over your hours, etc. most likely when you are no longer a resident. If you are still feeling the way you do now, I'd just go to locum tenens for at least 6 months or a year, and see how you feel about this all.

For right now, just keep doing what you are doing, but try to carve out some more personal time. I found it helpful to join maybe 1 or 2 community organizations or clubs that had nothing to do with medicine and where I could meet nonphysicians to make friends with them. Also, take advantage of your vacation time as a resident to visit other countries, go see your college friends, etc. and don't study during your vacations.

mercapto,
Not terrible to offer to pray for a patient, but you need to be very careful to not come across as overbearing and not push your belief system on to a patient, particularly not a sick one (like inpatient ICU or internal med patient, etc.). I have had patients in my clinic specifically tell me they didn't want to discuss religion, etc. and that they had had previous doctors who they felt were pushing their religious beliefs on to them (the patients) and the patients really don't like it. If you feel like your religion permeates everything you do and your approach to patient care, etc., then you may be most comfortable in a religious-based clinic/one run by a church(es). These do exist...I volunteer at a church-based clinic, and though I'm not particularly religious, a lot of the nurses and docs are.

 

[jumpingjax]

Don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply at length. Historically, people were not so offended by something like an offer of prayer or the doctor providing his/her own perspective on issues such as life, death, illness, suffering, etc. Who said I'd force anything down anyone's throat? On the other hand, I am a human being - not a robot - and I see no reason why my "fiduciary duty" to care for others' health is harmed by telling them about my beliefs, if they are open to my doing so, of course.

Anyway, knowing where this country is heading regarding this issue, I realize full well that there are plenty of people who see this from your angle and would desire termination of a doctor who offered to pray for his patient, or told his questioning patient what he believed regarding various moral/spiritual issues. That's why I think this sort of practice is perhaps more feasible in a foreign country.

Again, let's get back on topic - CuriosKat's OP.

LOL - Preach on bro, like right now I'm prayin for you to STFU.

 

[bluealiendoctor]

Don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply at length. Historically, people were not so offended by something like an offer of prayer or the doctor providing his/her own perspective on issues such as life, death, illness, suffering, etc. Who said I'd force anything down anyone's throat? On the other hand, I am a human being - not a robot - and I see no reason why my "fiduciary duty" to care for others' health is harmed by telling them about my beliefs, if they are open to my doing so, of course.

Anyway, knowing where this country is heading regarding this issue, I realize full well that there are plenty of people who see this from your angle and would desire termination of a doctor who offered to pray for his patient, or told his questioning patient what he believed regarding various moral/spiritual issues. That's why I think this sort of practice is perhaps more feasible in a foreign country.

Yeah, and people also once believed the earth was the center of the universe, and that it was flat, Zeus was the almighty, and witches put curses on you.

 

[FatPigeon]

Don't want to derail this thread, so I won't reply at length. Historically, people were not so offended by something like an offer of prayer or the doctor providing his/her own perspective on issues such as life, death, illness, suffering, etc. Who said I'd force anything down anyone's throat? On the other hand, I am a human being - not a robot - and I see no reason why my "fiduciary duty" to care for others' health is harmed by telling them about my beliefs, if they are open to my doing so, of course.

Anyway, knowing where this country is heading regarding this issue, I realize full well that there are plenty of people who see this from your angle and would desire termination of a doctor who offered to pray for his patient, or told his questioning patient what he believed regarding various moral/spiritual issues. That's why I think this sort of practice is perhaps more feasible in a foreign country.

Again, let's get back on topic - CuriosKat's OP.

I think you're a brainwashed lunatic. Where have you found enough rational thought to pass your classes?

Careful once you start practicing, or you'll rightfully have your license revoked for preaching your beliefs to dying people who don't have the energy to push you away.

 

[CuriousKat]

Mercaptovizadeh, I do think you need to be careful mixing religion and medicine. I also think mixing politics and medicine is dangerous as well, but many people do (I was suprised by all of the lapel pins for McCain or Obama I saw on white coats during the election.)

Anyway, I just returned from a week long vacation in southern California, which might be part of the problem. It is always difficult to come back from vacation. To the above poster, I am actually in an E-ROAD specialty, not a surgical specialty and I realize I have it better than most of my medical colleagues.

Still, right now, if I could erase my debt and do kayaking ecotours in San Diego or work in a surf shop in Santa Cruz for minimum wage, I would honestly do it. The sunk cost of the time and money of medical training at this point is too much for me to get past psychologically so I probably won't make a dramatic career change. I wish I was courageous enough to do something else.

 

[uclabruins47]

... From a "job" to a "drudge", woe are the days of my remaining career

Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm having a "mid-training crisis" and was hoping for some guidance or perspective. I'm currently a PGY-2 in a competitive field. Great program, great people, no issues there. My one goal since childhood has been to become a physician. I saw becoming a physician as the ultimate achievement in life. Like many others, I prioritized getting into the best college/med school/residency over social life, family, hobbies, other life experiences. Medicine was my passion and my calling and no sacrifice seemed too great.

Fast forward a decade (I will spare you all the details). Medicine is no longer a passion. It is simply a job...a job that I dislike many days. I feel like the cost/benefit ratio of a career in medicine is favorable if you value medicine over family/friends/interests/etc. If medicine becomes a job, the long work hours/declining reimbursement/entitled patients/medicolegal climate/stressful work/etc make the cost/benefit ratio, in my opinion, very unfavorable.

After accepting this realization, that medicine simply isn't "worth it," I have had some difficulty dealing with the time I have lost the last 6 years. Even more troubling, I realize I have a few more years before I could have a more normal life. Unfortunately, for me, working and studying 80 hours/week is simply not compatable with much of a social life. If I had any extra time, I would prefer to sleep 8 hours a night rather than 6.

My biggest motivation at the moment is an ethical obligation to become the best physician I can be even if I regret pursuing medicine in the first place. Of course debt is also an issue. The only light at the end of the tunnel for me is the ability to work half the year or less when I'm done and still do well enough financially. With all of the time spent, it seems like a waste.

Long story I know. My question is, for those of you who lost your passion for medicine, how did you deal with it? Did you ever get the passion back? How do you deal with the regret of pursuing medicine in the first place?

I am committed to becoming the best physician I can be, again primarily out of ethical considerations to society and a personal commitment to do my best. I'm just not sure how to continue my career with this baggage.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Firstly, I think the OP has over-romanticized other walks of life to a ridiculous degree. Would she actually be happy working for minimum wage in a surf shop, ringing people (at least half of whom you would find vapid and annoying) for items you could no longer afford to buy, making no other mark on the world than a enabling a leisure lifestyle? Or giving eco-tours, over and over and over, to privileged hippes who make you listen to their banal observations on the world? If you're in an EROAD specialty then you will absolutely have a great deal of flexibility and relatively fabulous hours to pursue whatever intersts you want. If you're starting to see medicine as nothing more than a retail front buying and selling health like any other commodity, as devoid of intrinsic meaning as working the counter in a shop, at least pick the one that lets you pay off your debt, take trips to Costa Rica, and buy surfboard wax.

Secondly, the vitriol with which Mercaptovizadeh was attacked was compeltely unwarranted-- especially the scathing attacks against doctors of any religious stripe. Even more amusing were the suppositions that he's an evangelical Christian. Given that his avatar is a picture of the Hagia Sophia *mosque* and 'vizadeh' sounds very Persian, my money would be on Muslim, not Christian.

 

[Samoa]

Firstly, I think the OP has over-romanticized other walks of life to a ridiculous degree. Would she actually be happy working for minimum wage in a surf shop, ringing people (at least half of whom you would find vapid and annoying) for items you could no longer afford to buy, making no other mark on the world than a enabling a leisure lifestyle? Or giving eco-tours, over and over and over, to privileged hippes who make you listen to their banal observations on the world? If you're in an EROAD specialty then you will absolutely have a great deal of flexibility and relatively fabulous hours to pursue whatever intersts you want. If you're starting to see medicine as nothing more than a retail front buying and selling health like any other commodity, as devoid of intrinsic meaning as working the counter in a shop, at least pick the one that lets you pay off your debt, take trips to Costa Rica, and buy surfboard wax.

Secondly, the vitriol with which Mercaptovizadeh was attacked was compeltely unwarranted-- especially the scathing attacks against doctors of any religious stripe. Even more amusing were the suppositions that he's an evangelical Christian. Given that his avatar is a picture of the Hagia Sophia *mosque* and 'vizadeh' sounds very Persian, my money would be on Muslim, not Christian.

Agreed, on both counts. Although I stand by my own statement.

 

[McGillGrad]

Your posts are usually very good and you have managed to impress me (even more) with the observation --bolded below--.

In reference to the first paragraph of your post, you are dead-on.

In respect to your extremely impressive demonstration of deductive knowledge, it unfortunately bears no fruit. According to his previous posts on SDN, he proclaims his Christianity and also his denial of evolution as the most logical theory of human development.

If he had read any of his scriptures or taken courses in theology, then he would not be criticized for such un-Christ-like behaviour. Instead he behaves like the typical ignorant reborn Christian who has no direct knowledge of the holy books.

Secondly, the vitriol with which Mercaptovizadeh was attacked was compeltely unwarranted-- especially the scathing attacks against doctors of any religious stripe. Even more amusing were the suppositions that he's an evangelical Christian. Given that his avatar is a picture of the Hagia Sophia *mosque* and 'vizadeh' sounds very Persian, my money would be on Muslim, not Christian.

 

[McGillGrad]

Given that his avatar is a picture of the Hagia Sophia *mosque* and 'vizadeh' sounds very Persian, my money would be on Muslim, not Christian.

As a side note, Iran has a significant minority of Orthodox Christians and Jews, too. Along with a small number of Zorastrians and non-denom Christians.

 

[finished]

Hi CuriousKat,

Sorry to hear you feel burnt-out right now. I hope that this will just be temporary for you, and that you will start leading a more balanced life soon and enjoy things that you feel are lacking in your life right now (hobbies, outside interests, family, etc). While the burn-out you describe is probably quite common in medicine, perhaps moreso in medicine than other professions, the grass isn't always necessarily greener in other professions, either. I used to be a teacher, and one of my best friends from my credentialing program was extremely passionate about teaching physics- at least at first. When she started, she wanted to use toys and other hands-on fun activities to solidify her lessons. She was quite gung-ho and energetic. I really admired her. After only two years of teaching, however, I began to hear comments like "it's just a job" and "I'm just trying to get through each day now", etc.
Though not exactly a "career" (but one of the hardest jobs on earth), I've seen at least two friends have the same experience with motherhood. They were both quite excited at first, but then after the baby came, seemed to almost regret their decision, as it was much different than they had imagined (neither of them had been diagnosed with post-partum depression, either).
I think a lot of things in life are like this. We tend to idealize our plans at first (like a rose garden), only to realize that things aren't quite so perfect after all (and the roses have bugs on them). It's kind of like searching for the wonderful Wizard of Oz, only to find out in the end that he's just a crotchety old man with a microphone.
It sounds like you are doing well in your program and are going to be a great doctor. I hope that you can incorporate more good things into your life, to off-set the stress of residency and being a doctor. I think that when you are done with your training (as long as it is not affecting your physical health), it will all have been worth it and you can hopefully work part time.
Best Wishes.

 

[CuriousKat]

I appreciate the honest feedback BlondeDocteur and finished. Perhaps I am over-romanticizing the career of eco-tourguides and surf shop workers. But neither of the aforementioned careers requires any sacrifice or investment in terms of time or money so the negatives seem more tolerable. I guess, after all of these years of intense training, I was hoping to like my career (even if the work was tough).

Anyway, I think the best plan at this point is probably to finish, work locums/partime, then bail as early as financially possible.

 

[McGillGrad]

You've already sacreficed and invested in medicine. There is no such thing as reward without real sacrefice (one way or another).

I appreciate the honest feedback BlondeDocteur and finished. Perhaps I am over-romanticizing the career of eco-tourguides and surf shop workers. But neither of the aforementioned careers requires any sacrifice or investment in terms of time or money so the negatives seem more tolerable. I guess, after all of these years of intense training, I was hoping to like my career (even if the work was tough).

Anyway, I think the best plan at this point is probably to finish, work locums/partime, then bail as early as financially possible.

 

[Lonestar]

I anticipated this realization. So I picked a specialty that suited most of my needs. I still get to practice medicine without the excessive hours or the hassles of running a clinic. I get 13 wks of vacation and get paid a decent salary so that I can payback my medical school loans. Cannot complain. But the road was definitely rough. Especially residency.

Hang in there, things will definitely get better.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I appreciate the honest feedback BlondeDocteur and finished. Perhaps I am over-romanticizing the career of eco-tourguides and surf shop workers. But neither of the aforementioned careers requires any sacrifice or investment in terms of time or money so the negatives seem more tolerable. I guess, after all of these years of intense training, I was hoping to like my career (even if the work was tough).

Anyway, I think the best plan at this point is probably to finish, work locums/partime, then bail as early as financially possible.

I realize that eco-tour guide and surf shop cashier were just hypotheticals. My qualifiers were meant to be equally abstract-- just illustrating that quite literally every other job on the planet sees their work as precisely that-- work. A way to make money to buy the necessities of life and perhaps a bit extra to dispose of as you please. Only we in medicine harbor any illusions that our work is supposed to be instrinsically rewarding and enjoyable. (I'm less cynical, and earlier in my training than you, so I take that as evidence that there *is* in fact something special about medicine that makes it different from other jobs). If you've gotten to your stage and see it as a job, no more or no less, then you're exactly where you would be in any other track.

I hear you about sacrifice and delayed gratification. I expect to be in training myself until age 37-- longer if I don't match into my desired field immediately. If you need a reason to keep going, given that you now see medicine as any other job, then think about the fact that you have maximum stability, flexibility, earning potential and prestige (which matters a lot from things like co-op board approval to mortgages). There is nothing else-- certainly not business, nor law-- that can give you those things.

PS McGill, I suppose you win some and lose some.... but seriously, good on you for knowing about religious diversity in the Middle East (assuming you're not Persian yourself).

 

[DarthNeurology]

My qualifiers were meant to be equally abstract-- just illustrating that quite literally every other job on the planet sees their work as precisely that-- work. A way to make money to buy the necessities of life and perhaps a bit extra to dispose of as you please. Only we in medicine harbor any illusions that our work is supposed to be instrinsically rewarding and enjoyable.

Not to start a flame war, but most people believe that their job has "instrinsic value." Professions where people need a passion for serving others/belief that they are doing society good include teaching, nursing, military forces (if you believe that freedom isn't "free" or that peacekeeping helps in certain situations), firefighters, police, even lawyers believe that we need laws and a legal system to function, construction workers who build such useful things as hospitals and schools, computer scientists who invented the "internet" which make every part of society more efficient including medicine as electronic medical records will become standard, economists who believe they can save us from the current catastrophe, even "sanitation engineers" do a very useful job for society otherwise garbage would pile up and we would have to haul it to the dump ourselves, administrators who work in hospitals (ok maybe bad example), people in the enterainment industry in Hollywood who make movies that they congratulate themselves for "enlightening, entertaining and educating and shaping american society", volunteers in different fields, clergy, etc. . . . the list goes on.

Everybody complains at times about their jobs, and at other times really love their job, in medicine as well.

Point being, you are living a sheltered life in thinking that everybody else outside of medicine views their job as only a way of making money. There are probably a million times more people outside of medicine who love their work!

I would have to readily disagree with BD that medicine is unique in this regard. I have met dozens of people who love teaching or working at a 911 call center and view their work as actually being "fun" and instrinsically important to society.

As BD, is not yet actually in residency yet, I would say that she will met many patients who do love their jobs and hate being away from them when they are in the hospital.

Since I have been involved clinically longer than BD, I would say that in medicine nobody harbors an "illusion" that the work is supposed to be rewarding. People who enjoy medicine are basically people who like to12 work hard and enjoy working on diagnostic problems.

After seeing 12 patients in a day you may not get a fuzzy feeling every time about "helping people" but you will enjoy the work of medicine daily such as evaluating lab results, talking to patients, and deciding the next step. Yes it is hardwork, but yes it can be "challenging" which is another way of saying fun.

As President Kennedy said about the race to the moon, we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. And of course more so in medicine because we realize that we can help people by being the responsible hardworker.

Medicine is very difficult because it is hardwork and you really need to be on the ball. Many people in the world seek out this type of difficult work, be it in medicine, law or business. The fringe benefits of a job in medicine are the rewarding moments with patients, but which don't happen with every patient.

If you see a patient who has say hemrrhoids, admit him, and work him up and refer him to the surgeons, but he is mean and makes life difficult you may feel that there some "illusion" about instrinsic happiness that BD refers to. I would be happy to have completed the workup properly and got the patient the care he needs regardless of compliments from the patient. This is what medicine is about, being happy about doing a good and complete job, regardless of any fuzzy feeling of happiness. And then you go on to the next patient. If you like working up patients, diagnosing, and educating them about their healthcare, then the work is by definition enjoyable it is not an illusion!

It is a gross generalization that BD made in saying that every other worker in the world see their job as "just work." I am sure that most eco-tour guides feel that they are helping save the planet or something like that.

In residency I think that focusing on the "job aspects" of medicine actually make it fun and enjoyable. It is fun to stay on the ball and do an extra rounds on patient in the afternoon to make sure everything is squared away. Focus on the work and you will be happy.

I once saw a patient who used to work as a machinist in a factory, and had to quite because of severe arthritis. He didn't need the money, but loved his work and was unhappy he had to give it up . . . He felt bad as he was one of only a couple in the city who could work a specific machine and did feel that his job had value. There are plenty of people with this same story who have found ultimate fullfillment in their job outside of medicine. Out of all the things that doctors can do, there is much that physicians are clueless about. In a way the job of a doctor is very clean in that you are given patients, you see them, and you can perfect this. It is very specialized and it means that a lot of physicians have a lack of other skills . . .

When you have a patient who is a construction worker, plumber, anything, ask them about their job and what they did, and what it was like, it is a wealth of information that doctors who are very sheltered never accumulate as we spend a lot of time in hospitals.

 

[H_Caulfield]

It is a gross generalization that BD made in saying that every other worker in the world see their job as "just work." I am sure that most eco-tour guides feel that they are helping save the planet or something like that.
.

I agree with your entire post, and think it notable that med-student Blondie here, aside from openly describing any passion for treating patients as mere "illusion" (obviously to be disproven as soon as the sad, psychotic individual hits the clinic?), also seems to suggest that flexibilty, earning potential, and prestige are the most important considerations for any professional. What else would you expect from someone going into plastic surgery? Oh, at Columbia, no doubt, widely regarded as the most snobby, pretentious, inbred and malignant place to train in the entire country. Overcompensation for that huge shadow cast upon it by Harvard and Yale, maybe? Don't worry, Columbia, we remember that you're ivy league.... when we think really hard about it.

Darth, thank you for coming to the defense of lawyers, teachers, and other professionals. I know many who've been moved to tears by the drive to legally protect a client, or to help a troubled young individual, respectively.

Let's brace ourselves for BD's obscure, abstract response, complete no doubt with some obscure philosophical reference in another language.

😴

 

[LadyGrey]

When you have a patient who is a construction worker, plumber, anything, ask them about their job and what they did, and what it was like, it is a wealth of information that doctors who are very sheltered never accumulate as we spend a lot of time in hospitals.

👍 I did family medicine in a very blue collar town, and talking to patients about their jobs was very enlightening. I learned that even at Burger King there is a hierarchy and jobs that more senior cooks get to do because they're more demanding. (I think the hardest was the "burger line," because lots of different sandwiches start with burgers).

 

[ZincFingers]

Finishing up med school, and I have my own share of nights staring at the ceiling, wondering what the **** I did to myself, all the stress and debt and indentured servitute, hating that I have to wake up in 4 hours to go back and have that one malignant resident piss all over me for no reason at all...

Eventually I come to the realization that medicine is the worst job possible for me... except for every other job.

Anything to do with sales, I am hopeless at. Living in a cubicle would make me cut my wrists like an emo kid (and radiology is out for the same reason ). Writing for a living is not an option unless I want to write trashy, by-the-numbers CIA-agent novels or bios of the latest celebrity du jour. Finance sounds cool until you remember that's just "sales" with flashier suits. And as for law... um...

And then I start to remember the good parts... the camaradarie, the learning of a real skill, the deep traditions of medicine, even saving the occasional patient. I remember how envious nurse practitioners are of us and how they want to steal our jobs. And of course I remember the call room hookups...

Mmm... call room hookups...

Wait, where was I? Um, anyway. Yeah, it's just a job, and yeah the hours can suck, but if you want to make a decent living and still have a positive effect on your community, it's not a bad choice to make!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I agree with your entire post, and think it notable that med-student Blondie here, aside from openly describing any passion for treating patients as mere "illusion" (obviously to be disproven as soon as the sad, psychotic individual hits the clinic?), also seems to suggest that flexibilty, earning potential, and prestige are the most important considerations for any professional. What else would you expect from someone going into plastic surgery? Oh, at Columbia, no doubt, widely regarded as the most snobby, pretentious, inbred and malignant place to train in the entire country. Overcompensation for that huge shadow cast upon it by Harvard and Yale, maybe? Don't worry, Columbia, we remember that you're ivy league.... when we think really hard about it.

Darth, thank you for coming to the defense of lawyers, teachers, and other professionals. I know many who've been moved to tears by the drive to legally protect a client, or to help a troubled young individual, respectively.

Let's brace ourselves for BD's obscure, abstract response, complete no doubt with some obscure philosophical reference in another language.

😴

For God's sake, people in medicine must be borderline schizophrenic- concrete with the reading comprehension of a troglodyte (from the Greek: trōglē hole, cave; dyein to enter = cavedweller) to come up with this crap. "Harbor illusions" does not mean I *believe* that the notion of rewarding, altruistic dimensions to medical practice is, in fact, illusory. That was a sardonic usage. In fact, if you read the following sentence, you would see that I strongly disagree with the OP as to this fact and think there is something special about medicine. I think medicine is the best job on earth and that it is intrinsically gratifying and meaningful. I did, however, have the humility to point out that perhaps I am less jaded and cynical merely because I am less advanced in training than the OP.

Flexibility, prestige, and job security were reasons I suggested to the orignial poster, who is much more disillusioned than I, for which she remain in medicine. She and I (and you, and Darth) share different presuppositions about the nature of the work. It is useless to argue from my presuppositions of intrinsic worth in any meaningful way to her, so I tried to meet her where she is. If you read any more of Wittgenstein besides your pithy little signature you might agree.

I've posted openly about what I see as pedigree obsession in New York, and at Columbia. Perhaps this is largely because I come from the South and went to my state university, an SEC school, for undergrad, so I bear the brunt of it. But I will say this: Columbia produces an uncommonly large number of people who shy away from lifestyle + money considerations precisely because of that pedigree. It's an open, enthusiastic place to train and I'm very happy with my clinical education. I've emerged from medical school completely unscathed as regarding my desired patient population (the underserved & overseas), my willingness to work very hard and delay gratification (6 years residency + superfellowship) and and cynicism towards medicine as a whole (none), and the majority of my classmates can say the same. Precisely because people come from wealthy backgrounds and prestigious colleges, they have loads of options open to them to make lots of money. It's my classmates whose lacrosse teammate is now 24 and making a million a year bonus at a hedge fund, ya know? So the people from this background who decide to go to medical school are generally motivated by other considerations-- especially the notion of instrinsic worth-- than money, prestige, or job security.

You mentioned my plans re: plastics with an admittedly understandably biased interpretation. However, it happens to be completely incorrect. I am in the enviable position of being able to turn my back on all the money the field could reasonably offer (I have no debt and am marrying someone whose income potential is 10x mine) in order to stay in academia, pursue training in pediatric plastics, and continue to be active overseas. These are luxuries to be sure, since there is no pressure on me to repay debt or be a breadwinner. I do not expect others to necessarily have the same priorities or give up the same opportunities, but it's definitely my path. I used to work on epidemics in the most miserable places on earth; it's just not in me to become a private practice cosmetic surgeon. (I'm sharing all these details only to prove my bona fides).

Finally, as far as other professions go: for the most part, the big status, money-making professions harbor no illusions that what they do is instrinsically valuable. My BigLaw colleagues might say they are upholding the principle of justice or whatnot, but no one gets warm fuzzies helping big corporations sue each other. No one I've met who's in private wealth management thinks it's simply marvelous move CEOs' discretionary monies back and forth from fund to fund, maximizing returns. Yes, you're right, people in more humble spots (or public service jobs) are often, though certainly not always, satisfied with their work. But I was specifically comparing medicine to other tough-to-enter, long years of training, etc jobs.

I hope that wasn't too "abstract" or "philosophical" to be followed. I can easily run it through Microsoft Word's Fleish-Kincaid program to knock it down a few levels if so. I have no idea why you responded all ad hominem (from the Latin: ad, ablative case marker meaning "towards," "hominem," man = a subjective attack on character rather than content) but I really thought it came out of nowhere.

 

[Samoa]

I agree with your entire post, and think it notable that med-student Blondie here, aside from openly describing any passion for treating patients as mere "illusion" (obviously to be disproven as soon as the sad, psychotic individual hits the clinic?), also seems to suggest that flexibilty, earning potential, and prestige are the most important considerations for any professional. What else would you expect from someone going into plastic surgery? Oh, at Columbia, no doubt, widely regarded as the most snobby, pretentious, inbred and malignant place to train in the entire country. Overcompensation for that huge shadow cast upon it by Harvard and Yale, maybe? Don't worry, Columbia, we remember that you're ivy league.... when we think really hard about it.

Darth, thank you for coming to the defense of lawyers, teachers, and other professionals. I know many who've been moved to tears by the drive to legally protect a client, or to help a troubled young individual, respectively.

Let's brace ourselves for BD's obscure, abstract response, complete no doubt with some obscure philosophical reference in another language.

😴

Oh for god's sake, can't we all just get over ourselves? I, for one, have held plenty of mind-numbing, soul-sucking jobs that have no higher purpose other than a paycheck (um, fax girl at a tech sales company? you would have to be psychotic to find meaning in that. Plenty of hierarchy, though.)

I have also held jobs in which some people find enough meaning, but that for me are only better than the boring, mind-numbing jobs in the above paragraph because they pay better and I'm higher up in the hierarchy. That makes a difference, that perhaps those of you on the more traditional HS>college>med school>residency track would not have had the opportunity to appreciate just yet. I have had the opportunity to see the difference between training in a profession, and practicing independently in that profession. And even if you fundamentally find the work unrewarding, practice is a whole lot better than training.

The thing about medicine is that, all during training, the things that make it unrewarding--the hierarchy, the grind, the sense that you've been working too hard, too long and you still are so far from any real autonomy--are very hard to live with, exactly because of the kind of people medicine attracts: idealists, people who want to love their work, and have a significant amount of autonomy. But training ends, and life does get better. Not necessarily because the hours change, or the patients change, or the work changes, but because your place in all of it changes.

As much as it sounds elitist to say so, there really is no other profession that asks for such a long delay of gratification as medicine. And the nature of the work IS fundamentally different from law, education, finance and business, as are the people that medicine attracts compared to these other fields. Certainly there are people in each of them who consider their job a calling. But I would agree that, with the exception of education, the vast majority of people who go into these fields are primarily seeking money, prestige and power, and chose these fields more for the paycheck than out of any enduring passion for the field, or expectation to love their work.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

As much as it sounds elitist to say so, there really is no other profession that asks for such a long delay of gratification as medicine. And the nature of the work IS fundamentally different from law, education, finance and business, as are the people that medicine attracts compared to these other fields. Certainly there are people in each of them who consider their job a calling. But I would agree that, with the exception of education, the vast majority of people who go into these fields are primarily seeking money, prestige and power, and chose these fields more for the paycheck than out of any enduring passion for the field, or expectation to love their work.

Exactly what I was trying to say, but yours is better.

 

[dragonfly99]

Please, people, could we keep this thread reasonably collegial, and on track?

Otherwise I might have to get a REAL moderator in here to kick some a--.
OK then.

OP, you need to party a little more, go on better vacations, keep studying but not too much...things will get better, especially when you are a little closer to being done with residency and you see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Also, you might be depressed or anxious...might want to talk to your own personal physician about that. Residency can be a grind, even if you are in a cushier specialty.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I agree with your entire post, and think it notable that med-student Blondie here...

The penny drops.

"Resident" Caulfield is actually a year behind me in training. And he's damn proud of his pedigree, too.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7340695#post7340695

 

[CuriousKat]

Wow, people are fiesty in this forum today.

Lonestar, I did not have your foresight but I fortunately did end up in a specialty that is flexible and condusive to time off. Honestly though, when I applied as a med student, I did not intend on taking significant vacation. My work ethic and interest in medicine has "evolved" as follows-

As a 4th year med student:
"I would do this specialty 52 weeks a year!"

As an intern:
"Although I haven't started my specialty yet, I am getting older and am tired of working so hard. Maybe I will go for that job with 13 weeks vacation after all."

As a junior resident:
"This is better than internship in some ways but the responsibilty and intellectual challenge is much greater. Maybe I will take one of the 26 weeks on, 26 week off jobs or just do locums a few weeks/months at a time."

At this rate, I'm not going to finish! Seriously though, I appreciate the advice. I'm hoping as I work my way up, things will be less stressful and time consuming as my knowledge base improves. Also, I will try to get out of town once every month or two to travel so I don't feel like I'm "serving time" for the length of my residency. Still, I'm sure I will probably bail or REALLY REALLY cut back at the earliest possible time. I wish I could get back to my "4th year med student" state of mind and love medicine again...

 

[jetproppilot]

Hey Kat,

I empathize with your position.

I certainly wouldnt call your feelings baggage.... rather I hear you coming to grips with your huge sacrifice and, as all of us who've pursued this line of work, a decade-plus lost.

I've blogged prolifically in the anesthesia forum about how medicine eventually becomes a job....and how an individual's priorities change.

I'm in my 12th year of private practice.

I still have fun at work but at this point in the game I don't consider myself passionate about my job.

It takes a rare individual to maintain the naive, philanthropic attitude most of us heralded in med school.

Hang in there, Dudette.

 

[H_Caulfield]

The penny drops.

"Resident" Caulfield is actually a year behind me in training. And he's damn proud of his pedigree, too.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7340695#post7340695

I've given 12 different stories as to what school and at what level of training I am, precisely so that people with a bit too much time on their hands (yourself, perhaps?) would never be able to discover my identity by searching through all 200 of my old posts. I value anonymity, and it's nice to have a place like this to complain and/or ask questions for myself or others which may not be considered so appropriate in person.

Didn't mean to jump on you, but your constant prose annoyed me a bit. For example, I skimmed your post rather quickly and lightly, because reading it felt like a chore. No I'm not an idiot, and yes, I read classics in my spare time. The difference is that I don't put down the book and start talking like Charles Dickens. You could internally explore the possibility that you come off as a bit pretentious, or you could ignore it and decide that I'm just an !@#hole.

I'll admit that I must have had you wrong regarding the plastic surgery issue. Can think of nothing but that despicable joke of a man, "Dr. Rey," when I hear so much as the very name of that field. 🙁

 

[CuriousKat]

Hey Jet,

Thanks for the encouragement. I have read quite a few of your posts on residency training and life as an attending. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. Actually, I think one of my issues is that I am surrounded my people who have a very different perspective on medicine than I do. I am in an academic place where attendings (and many co-residents) are really passionate about what they do, CONSTANTLY discuss medicine related topics even afterhours/on weekends/socially, get off on working late/on weekends to publish their 10th paper of the year in the major journal, etc. Unfortunately, that attitude has not inspired me! Although everyone is incredibly nice, I really feel out of place. I just want to survive residency, pass boards, and move on. Anyway, I will try to do just that.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

.

 

[IndyXRT]

Hey Jet,

Thanks for the encouragement. I have read quite a few of your posts on residency training and life as an attending. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. Actually, I think one of my issues is that I am surrounded my people who have a very different perspective on medicine than I do. I am in an academic place where attendings (and many co-residents) are really passionate about what they do, CONSTANTLY discuss medicine related topics even afterhours/on weekends/socially, get off on working late/on weekends to publish their 10th paper of the year in the major journal, etc. Unfortunately, that attitude has not inspired me! Although everyone is incredibly nice, I really feel out of place. I just want to survive residency, pass boards, and move on. Anyway, I will try to do just that.

Perhaps you just need to get out of academia; we often get a skewed perception of how medicine should be/is practiced during our training. Perhaps you will be happy in private practice.

 

[Doowai]

I am sure many feel ya, bro.

I sent you a PM.

 

[Lonestar]

Hey Jet,

Thanks for the encouragement. I have read quite a few of your posts on residency training and life as an attending. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. Actually, I think one of my issues is that I am surrounded my people who have a very different perspective on medicine than I do. I am in an academic place where attendings (and many co-residents) are really passionate about what they do, CONSTANTLY discuss medicine related topics even afterhours/on weekends/socially, get off on working late/on weekends to publish their 10th paper of the year in the major journal, etc. Unfortunately, that attitude has not inspired me! Although everyone is incredibly nice, I really feel out of place. I just want to survive residency, pass boards, and move on. Anyway, I will try to do just that.

Give yourself a nice gift now and then. I just got a car and about to get a new set of golf clubs. It is tough when all your college buds and medschool friends have moved away. I empathize with your position.

 

[CuriousKat]

Give yourself a nice gift now and then. I just got a car and about to get a new set of golf clubs. It is tough when all your college buds and medschool friends have moved away. I empathize with your position.

I just booked a plane ticket for a weekend to Miami next month and a room at a sweet hotel in South Beach. I think always having something to look forward to will make the 80 hr grind less painful. Although being around a surf shop may make it hard to come back 😉 ...

 

[Long Dong]

I just booked a plane ticket for a weekend to Miami next month and a room at a sweet hotel in South Beach. I think always having something to look forward to will make the 80 hr grind less painful. Although being around a surf shop may make it hard to come back 😉 ...

Word I'm there next month too. Winter Music Conference pool parties here I come. Work hard but play harder.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w0OX1pBo6E&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_QKdKhs0DE&feature=channel[/YOUTUBE]

 

[jetproppilot]

I just booked a plane ticket for a weekend to Miami next month and a room at a sweet hotel in South Beach. I think always having something to look forward to will make the 80 hr grind less painful. Although being around a surf shop may make it hard to come back 😉 ...

My old stomping grounds!😍

 

[jetproppilot]

I just booked a plane ticket for a weekend to Miami next month and a room at a sweet hotel in South Beach. I think always having something to look forward to will make the 80 hr grind less painful. Although being around a surf shop may make it hard to come back 😉 ...

I worked at http://www.clubplanet.com/Venues/147771/Miami-Beach/Penrods-Bch-Club-Nikki-Bch-Club-Pearl-Re in med school.

 

[Doowai]

Not to start a flame war, but most people believe that their job has "instrinsic value." Professions where people need a passion for serving others/belief that they are doing society good include teaching, nursing, military forces (if you believe that freedom isn't "free" or that peacekeeping helps in certain situations), firefighters, police, even lawyers believe that we need laws and a legal system to function, construction workers who build such useful things as hospitals and schools, .

I have never known an attorney to go into law because they felt it was a calling to serve others. I have known a great many doctors to go into medicine because they felt it was a "calling". And this is a big difference.

In other words many professions come to feel their profession has intrinsic value, in retrospect. Many in medicine start with a deep feeling of medicines intrinsic value, instead of discovering it retrospectively. I think this is why the loss of meaning in medicine is so common, they start off with some lofty feelings which come down to reality. In other professions I think they start off with a fairly firm grasp on reality ( i.e. its just a job) and then come to realize its also a service to their fellow man. For these other professions, finding there is intrinsic value is just icing on the cake - and adds meaning as they progress in their chosen careers

I have never, ever heard someone in construction describe their job as a calling or anything remotely close to that. But again I have heard many MD's describe it that way.

My experiences with attorneys, including a fairly recent stock swindle, has developed in me a less than favorable feeling towards the profession. I am sure some find it rewarding to help clients, but honestly I think its unfair to compare the professions of law to medicine(sorry Law2doc).

I think its similar with other oft compared professions, such as the civil service professions of firemen and police officers. Both are civil servants but firemen do not go around starting fires, just to put them out.

 

[CuriousKat]

I worked at http://www.clubplanet.com/Venues/147771/Miami-Beach/Penrods-Bch-Club-Nikki-Bch-Club-Pearl-Re in med school.

Nice man, not a bad gig to have as a med student. I have been to South Beach 4 times now and I always end up at that club at least once.

When I was a med student, I worked at the circulation desk at the library for extra cash-not quite as cool. 😀