From a third year to anyone with insight

[drfarah]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello everyone,

I have been following all the posts on this forum for a while now - and am extremely appreciative of all the information that everyone has been so eager to provide. I am a third year med student who just got turned on to possibly doing PM&R.

I had some questions as far as what institutions people recommend doing electives at. Which faculty are great at teaching, helpful and eager to involve student participation, and obviously conducive to writing great recs? Also - how many programs do you all recommend applying to? How many safety schools? What is the most important thing in the apps - grades, boards scores, recs, etc? And how do you apply for other prelim spots without interfering for applying to the PGY2 spots? Basically I am looking for overall guidance. I have one elective scheduled at Baylor in June, but was hoping for at least one more to do at possibly Northwestern or UMDNJ if I love PM&R as much as I think I will. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

To all of you 4th years - good luck on the match! It will all be over soon enough...

 

[CasaElGato]

I had some questions as far as what institutions people recommend doing electives at. Which faculty are great at teaching, helpful and eager to involve student participation, and obviously conducive to writing great recs? Also - how many programs do you all recommend applying to? How many safety schools? What is the most important thing in the apps - grades, boards scores, recs, etc? And how do you apply for other prelim spots without interfering for applying to the PGY2 spots? Basically I am looking for overall guidance. I have one elective scheduled at Baylor in June, but was hoping for at least one more to do at possibly Northwestern or UMDNJ if I love PM&R as much as I think I will. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

To all of you 4th years - good luck on the match! It will all be over soon enough...

I would pick a smaller place where you get to work with 1 attending. Either pick a place where they can get to know you and/or the letterhead carries weight.

NRMP data show people applying to an average of about 18 programs for PMR. An average matched person did about 8 interviews (across all specialties).

I think letters are really important as well as a sincere interest which is reflected in them. Not getting letters in on time can be scandalous. Grading systems are so variable from school to school. Some schools give half the class As/honors in some rotations!

For prelim transitional spots I used he same personal statement and applied the same time. Those interviews may actually be harder to get because you are competing with radiology, ophto, derm, etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[DistantMets]

I would pick a smaller place where you get to work with 1 attending. Either pick a place where they can get to know you and/or the letterhead carries weight.

NRMP data show people applying to an average of about 18 programs for PMR. An average matched person did about 8 interviews (across all specialties).

I think letters are really important as well as a sincere interest which is reflected in them. Not getting letters in on time can be scandalous. Grading systems are so variable from school to school. Some schools give half the class As/honors in some rotations!

For prelim transitional spots I used he same personal statement and applied the same time. Those interviews may actually be harder to get because you are competing with radiology, ophto, derm, etc.

Hope this helps.

I did one PM&R "little bit of everything" month (U of M). (Tough to get a letter that way, but it worked out) One in stroke at a city where I thought I wanted to be (OSU). I also did a month of SCI at Kessler. All three were great. I would suggest doing a general rotation close to where you are to get your feet wet with it, then go one or two places where you either get seen, and improve your chances there, or a place you'll get a letter with some clout. You want to do at least two weeks with an attending to realistically ask for a letter. The programs you named are very good, but also bigger programs. I would consider checking out a smaller or medium-sized program too. Spaulding, U of M, OSU, MCV, UVa, Emory are places I looked at in the 4-6 resident/yr. ballpark.

The other think I would say is, don't be a hard-core pain/MSK guy, even if that's what you think you might want. Attendings and ultimately interviewers will pick up on it. Do a TBI or SCI rotation and work hard at it. I met a few residents on the trail who were pain types and the found they really loved inpatient.

 

[Finally M3]

The other think I would say is, don't be a hard-core pain/MSK guy, even if that's what you think you might want. Attendings and ultimately interviewers will pick up on it. Do a TBI or SCI rotation and work hard at it. I met a few residents on the trail who were pain types and the found they really loved inpatient.

o/~ I think I know who you are...I think I know who you are...~\o



Actually, this is very good advice. I think it's important to establish that you are an undifferentiated applicant, or at the very least, not to say: "I want to strictly to MSK and go into interventional pain".

Some of the old school attendings may be turned off by a hard-core MSK applicant.

Good luck in the match, DistantMets, hope to see you when I'm a PGY4! 😀

 

[Rehability]

I would suggest doing rotations at places you think you actually want to end up. This is, in my opinion, MUCH more important than rotating through the big names to get a letter. Your work at the program of your choice will carry you alot further when it comes time for the program to make their rank list.

Best of luck!

 

[OMMFellow06]

If you're still unsure about whether you want to do PM&R, then do a general rotation early on, where you'll get exposure to a few different aspects of PM&R. It is a VERY broad field so you can't possibly be exposed to all aspects during a one month rotation, but a rotation that gives you some inpatient, some outpatient, and possibly some procedures will give you a decent idea.

I was pretty sure I wanted to do it, but I still started with a rotation that gave me 2 weeks of outpatient, one week of inpatient, and one week of consults. It gave me a decent idea of the field and prepared me when i rotated through JFK and TIRR.

In response to DistantMets comment on keeping an open mind, I completely agree. I was drawn to PM&R b/c of the MSK(not pain), but when I did my TBI rotation at TIRR, I fell in love with it. You never know what's gonna happen, so with everything in life, keep an open mind.

 

[Hemisphere]

hey, lot's of questions there, feel free to PM me if you like as well... I will answer the one about what is most important in the apps here... the way the apps are going, everything is important! to get into the top progs you will need a strong application, recs, boards, research/publications, a good reason for going into the field other than plenty of money and relaxation, etc.
that said, I think letters of rec carry a lot of weight in this field, it is a small field where people know each other. If you do well in your pm&r rotations and get good recs it will help. and if you have the grades/scores/ and other extracurriculars/research too to put on the icing, the door will be wide open to you. good luck!!

Hello everyone,

I have been following all the posts on this forum for a while now - and am extremely appreciative of all the information that everyone has been so eager to provide. I am a third year med student who just got turned on to possibly doing PM&R.

I had some questions as far as what institutions people recommend doing electives at. Which faculty are great at teaching, helpful and eager to involve student participation, and obviously conducive to writing great recs? Also - how many programs do you all recommend applying to? How many safety schools? What is the most important thing in the apps - grades, boards scores, recs, etc? And how do you apply for other prelim spots without interfering for applying to the PGY2 spots? Basically I am looking for overall guidance. I have one elective scheduled at Baylor in June, but was hoping for at least one more to do at possibly Northwestern or UMDNJ if I love PM&R as much as I think I will. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

To all of you 4th years - good luck on the match! It will all be over soon enough...

 

[melancholy]

I had some questions as far as what institutions people recommend doing electives at. Which faculty are great at teaching, helpful and eager to involve student participation, and obviously conducive to writing great recs? Also - how many programs do you all recommend applying to? How many safety schools? What is the most important thing in the apps - grades, boards scores, recs, etc? And how do you apply for other prelim spots without interfering for applying to the PGY2 spots? Basically I am looking for overall guidance. I have one elective scheduled at Baylor in June, but was hoping for at least one more to do at possibly Northwestern or UMDNJ if I love PM&R as much as I think I will. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I agree with the previous statements about finding a clerkship where you will get plenty of 1:1 time with at least one attending if not two. (You don't want too much of your time divided as this is less concentrated time with a potential letter writer) The downside of this is obviously getting less exposure to different attendings unless you are able to make the extra effort to get that exposure)

Some schools including mine put a cap on how many electives you can take in a certain specialty. I was lucky in having done my rotations before this took effect. I actually did a 3rd year elective (years ago) at Rancho Los Amigos doing inpatient SCI/TBI although the exposure was somewhat limited. The majority of my fundamental knowledge came from doing an elective at UC-Davis which had a week of consults, week of inpatient, and two weeks of mixed outpatient clinics. (You can optionally have time at the Shriners if you so desire) I whole-heartedly recommend a rotation like this to get a ton of exposure to various aspects of physiatry. Another plus was the smaller size of the department and the enthusiasm of the department for teaching.

After that initial rotation, I did one month of mostly outpatient medicine at Hopkins and then a month of inpatient/pain at Spaulding. In retrospect, three months of PM&R electives (and travelling) was fun and exciting, but also expensive and somewhat tiring. The point is to either schedule these audition rotations after your initial rotation or mix in other helpful rotations such as ortho, neuro, neurosx, rheum, etc.

I completely agree with what was said about presenting yourself as a completely msk/outpatient/sports/interventional/pain sort of applicant although there are exceptions where some programs are really looking for those sorts of applicants. I think it is important for residents at any program going into PM&R to really get the solid fundamentals of rehab in addition to physical medicine. As a personal example, I often thought the most respected and impressive attendings were the ones who I found were doing in-patient, yet had excellent skills when assessing msk issues.

In retrospect, I think for someone looking at well-rounded programs, getting a strong LOR from a "name" in-patient attending is key. (While "name" shouldn't always be a factor, it does in multiple cases so take that into consideration although don't think it is the end of the world when you don't get to work with the attending of choice. Always make the best of your situation.)

Having variety in LOR's can be nice if you have that luxury, but I feel that outpatient LOR's are easier to come by for many students.

Just my two cents.

 

[DistantMets]

I'll add too that I thought it worked out well that I was able to do ortho and neuro before my PM&R electives. I had an attending tell me she was impressed with my physical exam skills and I think those rotations were big. You're not expected to know much PM&R, but being sharp with PE and anatomy will make you stand out.

 

[drusso]

Audition rotations certainly help. Also, there are two books that every medical student should read before or during their rotation.

1) Chronic Disease and Disability: A Contemporary Rehabilitation Approach to Medical Practice

2) PM&R Secrets

Both are very accessible and well written. #1 is a little dated, but it contains all the bread and butter stuff that physiatrists manage in a hospital practice. #2 is also a great investment for residency.