From Engineering To Vet Schools

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Sam A.S

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Hello all...

As the title says... I'm a 28 years old Electrical Engineer, from Beirut - Lebanon. I have always wanted to be a Vet, but it wasn't an option 10 years ago...

Here I stand again, willing to start all over, ready to do whatever it takes, to end up doing something I'm passionate about.

Questions are...
1. How odd that sounds? (Cz it does to me!)
2. What is the best and most cost effective way to become a vet? That is which country and what schools?
3. Is there a way of financing those few years at the college through loans or part time jobs if I don't have much savings?

I appreciate any help you can give!

Thanks a lot.
Sam
 
There are a few of us around SDN that were/are engineers and/or studied engineering.

1 - Not odd at all! There are many career-changers. Personally I've found the biological sciences to be easier than engineering classes (though I'm not sure if that would carry over to vet school).

2 - The best and most cost effective way is completely dependent on your personal circumstances. I'm not familiar with Lebanon at all but here in the US vet school is pretty darn expensive. For me personally I've found that the most cost effective thing to do is continue working full time in the engineering field, work part time in a vet hospital and work on my prereqs part time (I don't take more than 6 units/semester). I'm able to pay for my classes out of pocket so I don't accrue any student loan debt and I'm able to contribute to my savings account.

3 - Yes. I know someone who was changing careers and wanted to get into vet school as soon as physically possible. She quit her job and was able to knock out all of her prereqs in 2 years by taking out student loans.

Personally I want as little debt as possible which is why I'm sticking it out at my engineering job and taking the long route. You should look into the cost of whichever vet school you would ideally like to attend to get a feel for how much debt you would be in after graduating. Vets don't make a ton of money (less than I'd make as an engineer at my current job) and you don't want to graduate and be crippled by debt.
 
There are a few of us around SDN that were/are engineers and/or studied engineering.


Personally I want as little debt as possible which is why I'm sticking it out at my engineering job and taking the long route. You should look into the cost of whichever vet school you would ideally like to attend to get a feel for how much debt you would be in after graduating. Vets don't make a ton of money (less than I'd make as an engineer at my current job) and you don't want to graduate and be crippled by debt.


Glad to see this thread here. Its not an odd choice at all. Many people change careers. I have seen people in their 50s apply to vet school. As long as you have considered the serious consequences. I have a graduate degree in engineering and have worked as a prof engineer for 7 years. For the past 3 years, I completed a 2nd BS in biology while working full time. Pre-reqs were all doable and I got As in almost all classes (except the 2nd O-chem where I ended up with a B+), and that was with working full time and having other responsibilities. The difficulty of classes, at least as a pre-vet is not much of an issue. You study hard, you should pass with good grades.
Now, I applied to 2 of the schools and got accepted to both. However, the more research I do about life of a veterinarian, the more discouraged I become of this career. That does not even include the incredible load of material and work involved during 4 years of school. The biggest problem as I am sure everyone knows, is debt. The ave debt coming out of vet school is around $16oK. Ave salary is anywhere between 60-80K, depending where you live. You make more in big cities, but the cost of living is also much higher. So for the rest of your life, you will have this giant albatross hanging off your neck, probably pushing you to take jobs in environments you don't really like. Second problem is market saturation. AVMA published their recent finding on this topic and it appears that most fields of vet medicine are experiencing 10-15% surplus of new graduates. Why vet schools are not adjusting their acceptance rate accordingly, I don't know. Third thing is the poor quality of life-work balance for a vet. From what I hear, its non existent. 4th, I have heard the clinic owners can be very demanding and very often, major a..holes, so working environment can be an issue. 5th, the stress of the job itself, dealing with death, abuse, neglect and especially euthanizing animals. For me, that's probably the biggest one. The good is probably obvious to everyone who is considering this field so I won't go into that. So here you have it. The good, the bad and the ugly.
 
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Glad to see this thread here. Its not an odd choice at all. Many people change careers. I have seen people in their 50s apply to vet school. As long as you have considered the serious consequences. I have a graduate degree in engineering and have worked as a prof engineer for 7 years. For the past 3 years, I completed a 2nd BS in biology while working full time. Pre-reqs were all doable and I got As in almost all classes (except the 2nd O-chem where I ended up with a B+), and that was with working full time and having other responsibilities. The difficulty of classes, at least as a pre-vet is not much of an issue. You study hard, you should pass with good grades.
Now, I applied to 2 of the schools and got accepted to both. However, the more research I do about life of a veterinarian, the more discouraged I become of this career. That does not even include the incredible load of material and work involved during 4 years of school. The biggest problem as I am sure everyone knows, is debt. The ave debt coming out of vet school is around $16oK. Ave salary is anywhere between 60-80K, depending where you live. You make more in big cities, but the cost of living is also much higher. So for the rest of your life, you will have this giant albatross hanging off your neck, probably pushing you to take jobs in environments you don't really like. Second problem is market saturation. AVMA published their recent finding on this topic and it appears that most fields of vet medicine are experiencing 10-15% surplus of new graduates. Why vet schools are not adjusting their acceptance rate accordingly, I don't know. Third thing is the poor quality of life-work balance for a vet. From what I hear, its non existent. 4th, I have heard the clinic owners can be very demanding and very often, major a..holes, so working environment can be an issue. 5th, the stress of the job itself, dealing with death, abuse, neglect and especially euthanizing animals. For me, that's probably the biggest one. The good is probably obvious to everyone who is considering this field so I won't go into that. So here you have it. The good, the bad and the ugly.
because every student brings a certain amount of money. Honestly, that's the main reason.

FWIW, some schools do know and are trying to limit that but they have to answer to Boards. UTK recently capped it at 85 students. Not sure how long the dean can manage that.
 
Glad to see this thread here. Its not an odd choice at all. Many people change careers. I have seen people in their 50s apply to vet school. As long as you have considered the serious consequences. I have a graduate degree in engineering and have worked as a prof engineer for 7 years. For the past 3 years, I completed a 2nd BS in biology while working full time. Pre-reqs were all doable and I got As in almost all classes (except the 2nd O-chem where I ended up with a B+), and that was with working full time and having other responsibilities. The difficulty of classes, at least as a pre-vet is not much of an issue. You study hard, you should pass with good grades.
Now, I applied to 2 of the schools and got accepted to both. However, the more research I do about life of a veterinarian, the more discouraged I become of this career. That does not even include the incredible load of material and work involved during 4 years of school. The biggest problem as I am sure everyone knows, is debt. The ave debt coming out of vet school is around $16oK. Ave salary is anywhere between 60-80K, depending where you live. You make more in big cities, but the cost of living is also much higher. So for the rest of your life, you will have this giant albatross hanging off your neck, probably pushing you to take jobs in environments you don't really like. Second problem is market saturation. AVMA published their recent finding on this topic and it appears that most fields of vet medicine are experiencing 10-15% surplus of new graduates. Why vet schools are not adjusting their acceptance rate accordingly, I don't know. Third thing is the poor quality of life-work balance for a vet. From what I hear, its non existent. 4th, I have heard the clinic owners can be very demanding and very often, major a..holes, so working environment can be an issue. 5th, the stress of the job itself, dealing with death, abuse, neglect and especially euthanizing animals. For me, that's probably the biggest one. The good is probably obvious to everyone who is considering this field so I won't go into that. So here you have it. The good, the bad and the ugly.

I guess I'll jump in on this to say that while this post is fairly accurate, there are some positive points that weren't mentioned.
If you manage to get through school without debt you'll be a lot happier. Obviously. 😛
The "surplus" is an issue that's debated. I'm in the camp that thinks it's a distribution problem more than anything. The post above mentions working in undesirable places, but desirability is pretty subjective. Chances are if you travel to a state without a vet school jobs will be a bit easier to find.
As far as conflict with the clinic owners goes the main problem seems to be production. When the economy tanked a lot of veterinarians were switched off a straight salary and onto a base + %production pay system. I'm sure you can tell that money is a touchy thing in this field. Overall, veterinarians don't like to be pushed by the owners to hit certain cost requirements, and when they are it creates a bad relationship. If you're totally fine working in that type of environment then chances are you'll be pretty cool with the owner.
In terms of work-life balance it really comes down to money (again). I'm aware of some corporate positions where veterinarians can sit at home and get paid on a per-case basis to offer a second opinion remotely. Doesn't pay that much compared to other things you can find, but the time you spend at home is a huge plus for some. Working as a relief doctor is another avenue, but the downside to your increased free time is a lack of job security.
If you want a higher pay then obviously it will cost you your time. Basically it comes down to finding a balance that works for you.
As for stress/drama of the job, well, just know what you're getting into.
 
I guess I'll jump in on this to say that while this post is fairly accurate, there are some positive points that weren't mentioned.
If you manage to get through school without debt you'll be a lot happier. Obviously. 😛
The "surplus" is an issue that's debated. I'm in the camp that thinks it's a distribution problem more than anything. The post above mentions working in undesirable places, but desirability is pretty subjective. Chances are if you travel to a state without a vet school jobs will be a bit easier to find.
As far as conflict with the clinic owners goes the main problem seems to be production. When the economy tanked a lot of veterinarians were switched off a straight salary and onto a base + %production pay system. I'm sure you can tell that money is a touchy thing in this field. Overall, veterinarians don't like to be pushed by the owners to hit certain cost requirements, and when they are it creates a bad relationship. If you're totally fine working in that type of environment then chances are you'll be pretty cool with the owner.
In terms of work-life balance it really comes down to money (again). I'm aware of some corporate positions where veterinarians can sit at home and get paid on a per-case basis to offer a second opinion remotely. Doesn't pay that much compared to other things you can find, but the time you spend at home is a huge plus for some. Working as a relief doctor is another avenue, but the downside to your increased free time is a lack of job security.
If you want a higher pay then obviously it will cost you your time. Basically it comes down to finding a balance that works for you.
As for stress/drama of the job, well, just know what you're getting into.


Well, YEAH! but that's a big IF...unfortunately that debt will dictate a lot of decision you will make. You really can't afford to free up your time because you have to pay off the huge monthly payments. I suppose if you have other sources of support, then you can reduce your debt, but I am not one of those lucky ones. I got through graduate school by working part time, scholarships and TAship. I have no debt as of now...but I don't think you can work during vet school. At least I don't know of anyone who could manage the school load and a part time job. In terms of surplus/saturation, I am hoping you are right, but all the lits I have read point the other direction. AVMA published some study in 2012 that indicated roughly 10-15% surplus over current demand. People shy away from large animal practice due to possible career-ending injuries and the nature of this practice. Wildlife and zoo animal is pretty much non-existent, that leaves most people with small animal medicine. I think that's where the saturation is mostly happening. In terms of location as in urban vs. rural, they both have pros and cons and you are right that its totally subjective.
 
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because every student brings a certain amount of money. Honestly, that's the main reason.

FWIW, some schools do know and are trying to limit that but they have to answer to Boards. UTK recently capped it at 85 students. Not sure how long the dean can manage that.

It sure is the money! some schools offer these degrees that they KNOW people coming out won't have much of a chance in getting a job, but they still offer classes and degrees and on-line courses. The schools have turned into money making machines instead of devoting their time and resources to education. I would justify these giant tuition increases due to cost of living, etc except when you find out that the dean's annual salary is a couple of millions with a couple of extra mils as a bonus. What the hell has happened to this country? do I sound pissed off? 🙂
 
Well, YEAH! but that's a big IF...unfortunately that debt will dictate a lot of decision you will make. You really can't afford to free up your time because you have to pay off the huge monthly payments. I suppose if you have other sources of support, then you can reduce your debt, but I am not one of those lucky ones. I got through graduate school by working part time, scholarships and TAship. I have no debt as of now...but I don't think you can work during vet school. At least I don't know of anyone who could manage the school load and a part time job. In terms of surplus/saturation, I am hoping you are right, but all the lits I have read point the other direction. AVMA published some study in 2012 that indicated roughly 10-15% surplus over current demand. People shy away from large animal practice due to possible career-ending injuries and the nature of this practice. Wildlife and zoo animal is pretty much non-existent, that leaves most people with small animal medicine. I think that's where the saturation is mostly happening. In terms of location as in urban vs. rural, they both have pros and cons and you are right that its totally subjective.
The biggest problem is that there isn't much tracking done on students after they graduate. These articles are all forced to extrapolate off small regional samples of data (often just surveys) to make their conclusions. I also think the oversaturation fad will blow over once the economy fully recovers.
 
I guess I'll jump in on this to say that while this post is fairly accurate, there are some positive points that weren't mentioned.
If you manage to get through school without debt you'll be a lot happier. Obviously. 😛
The "surplus" is an issue that's debated. I'm in the camp that thinks it's a distribution problem more than anything. The post above mentions working in undesirable places, but desirability is pretty subjective. Chances are if you travel to a state without a vet school jobs will be a bit easier to find.
As far as conflict with the clinic owners goes the main problem seems to be production. When the economy tanked a lot of veterinarians were switched off a straight salary and onto a base + %production pay system. I'm sure you can tell that money is a touchy thing in this field. Overall, veterinarians don't like to be pushed by the owners to hit certain cost requirements, and when they are it creates a bad relationship. If you're totally fine working in that type of environment then chances are you'll be pretty cool with the owner.
In terms of work-life balance it really comes down to money (again). I'm aware of some corporate positions where veterinarians can sit at home and get paid on a per-case basis to offer a second opinion remotely. Doesn't pay that much compared to other things you can find, but the time you spend at home is a huge plus for some. Working as a relief doctor is another avenue, but the downside to your increased free time is a lack of job security.
If you want a higher pay then obviously it will cost you your time. Basically it comes down to finding a balance that works for you.
As for stress/drama of the job, well, just know what you're getting into.

I wish you would really do some research on the state of the career, for your own good. The "surplus" issues is NOT debated. It is NOT a distribution problem. It is a money problem. We have lots of vets, I have lots of friends here at school that WANT to do large animal (where you have in previous posts stated that is where the distribution problem lies), they simply can't do large animal because the economy can not support it. Veterinarians were being paid based on %production before the economy tanked, especially in corporate offices. Where you can find a job is going to rely on whatever is available, you are going to have to be a bit flexible on where you want to go. I have worked with many relief vets, they are often pulling more hours than those that actually work as an associate or owner, because they don't make as much.

You say a lot of things that you just think to be true and you can be doing damage to people who read this forum but don't post and just take what you say at face value. Please take some time to do some research. I am not saying that this is all doom and gloom, but there is currently a surplus of vets in an economy that can not sustain that number....
 
3 - Yes. I know someone who was changing careers and wanted to get into vet school as soon as physically possible. She quit her job and was able to knock out all of her prereqs in 2 years by taking out student loans.

Just remember though that at least for US schools you can't get federal loans unless you are a citizen or green card holder. So unless the OP is, s/he essentially need to have at least a year's full tuition in cash in a bank account (and obviously all 4 yrs worth in the end) to even be allowed to attend. If I remember correctly, even private loans need to be backed by an American resident. So the OP would either need to find loans in his/her country of origin (good luck getting $250k+ for a pretty low yield degree...), or be able to personally gather that much in savings. That, and even after getting a degree in the US there's tons of hurdles if s/he want to remain here to practice.

OP, there's a big thread on the veterinary forum where foreigners have a lot of good advice. You may want to try there. Or the best source of info would prob be a vet in your country of origin.
 
The biggest problem is that there isn't much tracking done on students after they graduate. These articles are all forced to extrapolate off small regional samples of data (often just surveys) to make their conclusions. I also think the oversaturation fad will blow over once the economy fully recovers.

Do you know any recent vet school grads? I do. They can't find jobs. Adding more schools/increasing class sizes is NOT going to go away. And it's only going to get worse.
 
I wish you would really do some research on the state of the career, for your own good. The "surplus" issues is NOT debated. It is NOT a distribution problem. It is a money problem. We have lots of vets, I have lots of friends here at school that WANT to do large animal (where you have in previous posts stated that is where the distribution problem lies), they simply can't do large animal because the economy can not support it. Veterinarians were being paid based on %production before the economy tanked, especially in corporate offices. Where you can find a job is going to rely on whatever is available, you are going to have to be a bit flexible on where you want to go. I have worked with many relief vets, they are often pulling more hours than those that actually work as an associate or owner, because they don't make as much.

You say a lot of things that you just think to be true and you can be doing damage to people who read this forum but don't post and just take what you say at face value. Please take some time to do some research. I am not saying that this is all doom and gloom, but there is currently a surplus of vets in an economy that can not sustain that number....
I find it strange you're so invested in trying to contradict things I say on this matter that you're making unrelated statements solely in an effort to disagree with me. This isn't the first time you've done this.
Veterinarians were being paid based on %production before the economy tanked, especially in corporate offices.
When did I ever say there weren't veterinarians paid on production before the economy tanked? Go back and read my post.
We have lots of vets, I have lots of friends here at school that WANT to do large animal (where you have in previous posts stated that is where the distribution problem lies)
Retrieve the post then.
I have worked with many relief vets, they are often pulling more hours than those that actually work as an associate or owner, because they don't make as much.
Ok? I know an owner who works about 25 hours a week. That comparison tells me nothing.
You say a lot of things that you just think to be true and you can be doing damage to people who read this forum but don't post and just take what you say at face value.
No, damage is done when someone like the OP second guesses their desire to become a vet after multiple "OMG NO JOBS WE'RE UNSUSTAINABLE" posts. It's turning them away from a whole career they might be passionate about because of a short-sighted attempt at predicting the market 5, 10, 15 years down the line based on what it's like now. And honestly if working several years in a non-desired specialty is such an issue maybe you shouldn't be a vet at all.


Do you know any recent vet school grads? I do. They can't find jobs. Adding more schools/increasing class sizes is NOT going to go away. And it's only going to get worse.
Yeah. Know of two who recently applied for jobs. One refused to work Fridays, the other felt the commute would constrain their hours. We decided to hire an experienced doctor who was willing to work on Fridays and have adjustable hours.
 
I find it strange you're so invested in trying to contradict things I say on this matter that you're making unrelated statements solely in an effort to disagree with me. This isn't the first time you've done this.

My statement was in no way unrelated to your post in this thread and addressed it directly, going back to specific parts of your post, if you fail to see that, that is your loss, not mine.


No, damage is done when someone like the OP second guesses their desire to become a vet after multiple "OMG NO JOBS WE'RE UNSUSTAINABLE" posts. It's turning them away from a whole career they might be passionate about because of a short-sighted attempt at predicting the market 5, 10, 15 years down the line based on what it's like now. And honestly if working several years in a non-desired specialty is such an issue maybe you shouldn't be a vet at all.

No, damage is done when pre-vets like you come on here and act like they know what they are talking about when they don't. You NEED to research this, because you are talking out your ass. These are estimates of the profession in 5 years time, it is not expected to change any time soon. Also, you have not been around here long enough to see what the posters who are responding act. I have been very supportive of people here, but I am also very realistic about the aspects of this profession. I do think the profession is a good profession, it has its benefits and rewards, but this part of the career IS a problem and to keep sweeping it under the rug does not help.

Also, you are not getting it through your skull that not everyone can specialize, that is an extra 3-4 years of schooling. It isn't feasible to just do a specialty for "a several years". If you are thinking small animal is a "specialty" that is wrong... that is general practice. So not only are you posting inaccurate information but you can't seem to recognize the difference between specialty and general practice and that specializing is not something you do for "a few years".
 
Hey guys... lets take it easy...we are just talking and exchanging ideas here. The reason we post our concerns here is because we would like to get as many perspectives as possible and collect as much information as possible so at the end we can all make choices that are best for us. No one's post is meant to be directed at anyone in particular. This situation is frustrating for all of us b/c we are all worried about our future and the consequences. I don't think anyone can argue that the situation doesn't look too pretty one way or another, but lets keep it cordial. You never know if you may end up working with any of these people.
 
My statement was in no way unrelated to your post in this thread and addressed it directly, going back to specific parts of your post, if you fail to see that, that is your loss, not mine.




No, damage is done when pre-vets like you come on here and act like they know what they are talking about when they don't. You NEED to research this, because you are talking out your ass. These are estimates of the profession in 5 years time, it is not expected to change any time soon. Also, you have not been around here long enough to see what the posters who are responding act. I have been very supportive of people here, but I am also very realistic about the aspects of this profession. I do think the profession is a good profession, it has its benefits and rewards, but this part of the career IS a problem and to keep sweeping it under the rug does not help.

Also, you are not getting it through your skull that not everyone can specialize, that is an extra 3-4 years of schooling. It isn't feasible to just do a specialty for "a several years". If you are thinking small animal is a "specialty" that is wrong... that is general practice. So not only are you posting inaccurate information but you can't seem to recognize the difference between specialty and general practice and that specializing is not something you do for "a few years".
And your credentials are what?

Here. You want a study that says what you want it to?
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reports/Documents/Veterinarian-Workforce-Final-Report-LowRes.pdf

Quoting directly from the report:
"We estimated that the supply for veterinarians (90,200) in the U.S. in 2012 exceeded demand for veterinarians (78,950) by approximately 11,250 (or excess capacity of 12.5%) at the current levels of prices for services."
"Between 2012 and 2025, under a baseline scenario we projected that both supply and demand would grow by about 11% (reaching demand of 88,100 and supply of 100,400 by 2025)."

There you go. Exactly what you wanted to hear. Now read what they also wrote:
"Because a large proportion of veterinarians were self-employed and unemployment rates for veterinarians were low, this excess capacity took the form of under- employment rather than unemployment."
"[An] AAVMC survey of recent DVM graduates of schools and colleges of veterinary medicine in the US finds that at six months post graduation only 2.1% of year 2012 graduates report being unemployed (with the remaining 97.9% employed in veterinary medicine, some other field, or enrolled in a graduate program)."
"There was little information to model growth trends in demand for veterinarians in industry. Our analysis relied on survey data collected during the middle of an economic downturn that asked industry representatives their plans for hiring." (emphasis mine)
"Our review of the literature and analysis of existing data sources found little information on the retirement patterns of veterinarians."
"The current excess capacity among veterinary practices providing direct animal care could be influenced through efforts to increase the volume of services used. Research is needed to better understand the degree to which reducing the price of services will increase volume of such services."
"While at the national level there appears to be excess capacity in veterinary clinical practice, in certain geographic areas and for certain skill sets (e.g., research) there may be pockets where there is insufficient capacity to meet demand for services."
"Despite the increased difficulty that new veterinarian graduates are having finding employment, the large number of employment offers made to some new graduates demonstrates that top students at well regarded CVMs may have little difficulty finding employment."

Sad how none of my previous posts mentioned these things. /s

Ah well. Guess we're all doomed.
 
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And your credentials are what?

Here. You want a study that says what you want it to?
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reports/Documents/Veterinarian-Workforce-Final-Report-LowRes.pdf

"


Sad how none of my previous posts mentioned these things. /s

Ah well. Guess we're all doomed.

That's the study I was referring to. We are not really doomed. Here is some silver lining for this arguement... what new graduate in any field do you know that does not struggle finding a job? its not a whole lot different in other fields. I know I had my share of struggles finding a decent job. There is a huge difference here though, most graduates in other fields don't come out with 160K in debt.
 
There you go. Exactly what you wanted to hear. Now read what they also wrote:

1. "Because a large proportion of veterinarians were self-employed and unemployment rates for veterinarians were low, this excess capacity took the form of under- employment rather than unemployment."

2. "[An] AAVMC survey of recent DVM graduates of schools and colleges of veterinary medicine in the US finds that at six months post graduation only 2.1% of year 2012 graduates report being unemployed (with the remaining 97.9% employed in veterinary medicine, some other field, or enrolled in a graduate program)."

3. "There was little information to model growth trends in demand for veterinarians in industry. Our analysis relied on survey data collected during the middle of an economic downturn that asked industry representatives their plans for hiring." (emphasis mine)

4. "Our review of the literature and analysis of existing data sources found little information on the retirement patterns of veterinarians."

5. "While at the national level there appears to be excess capacity in veterinary clinical practice, in certain geographic areas and for certain skill sets (e.g., research) there may be pockets where there is insufficient capacity to meet demand for services."

6. "Despite the increased difficulty that new veterinarian graduates are having finding employment, the large number of employment offers made to some new graduates demonstrates that top students at well regarded CVMs may have little difficulty finding employment."


Ah well. Guess we're all doomed.

1. And underemployment is better how? Being underpaid is good? Since when?

2. This is the survey that depends on recent grads filling it out. Many grads don't, especially ones that have not found jobs, they are embarrassed about it, they don't want people to know. Also, 97.9% are employed in vet med, "other field" or "grad program"; do you really want to go to vet school just to be employed in some "other field".

3. Yeah, so what? That is what happens in life, economic downturns... so does that disqualify the info suddenly? No, it doesn't

4. Because vets aren't retiring.

5. Yes, we have discussed this. Vets may be needed in rural settings or lab settings or wherever, but the economy can not support them. We have plenty of vets who want to do these jobs, but can't.

6. Really? Please, tell me why a new grad I was talking to this past summer was saying that a good amount of her class were still looking for jobs 6 months after graduating. There is difficulty, it is hard to find jobs now. Ask the people on here currently looking who have already addressed this and said flat out they are having issues.

Again, no one is saying we are doomed, we are saying that you need to have these issues in mind. You should be worried about if you can find a job after you graduate, if you aren't worried about that, then you need to think about that. Finding a job after graduation is important and you don't really want to be one of those who are "in an other field" or "in a grad program"... no one wants that.
 
and your credentials are????? what?

🙄

cause I am not seeing any......

and yeah maybe you should actually look at the reality of the situation instead of sticking your head in the damn sand....
Relatives currently own multiple practices... happened to give me the opportunity to listen to the opinions of many other practice owners. I suppose that's pretty useless.
 
1. And underemployment is better how? Being underpaid is good? Since when?


Again, no one is saying we are doomed, we are saying that you need to have these issues in mind. You should be worried about if you can find a job after you graduate, if you aren't worried about that, then you need to think about that. Finding a job after graduation is important and you don't really want to be one of those who are "in an other field" or "in a grad program"... no one wants that.


Also, keep in mind that AVMA is not going to shoot itself in the foot. They are not going to say hey, we are over accepting students to make money, but there are no jobs out there. A large part of it is due to the economy and the other part I think its the corporate mentality of the institutions that are supposed to be educational. I don't know... this is one of toughest decisions I have ever been faced with. You can't really blame anesthtc. She is probably where you were a few years ago. Loves the field with a lot of hopes and dreams...who wants to admit that their dream profession is really failing...no one!
 
1. And underemployment is better how? Being underpaid is good? Since when?

2. This is the survey that depends on recent grads filling it out. Many grads don't, especially ones that have not found jobs, they are embarrassed about it, they don't want people to know. Also, 97.9% are employed in vet med, "other field" or "grad program"; do you really want to go to vet school just to be employed in some "other field".

3. Yeah, so what? That is what happens in life, economic downturns... so does that disqualify the info suddenly? No, it doesn't

4. Because vets aren't retiring.

5. Yes, we have discussed this. Vets may be needed in rural settings or lab settings or wherever, but the economy can not support them. We have plenty of vets who want to do these jobs, but can't.

6. Really? Please, tell me why a new grad I was talking to this past summer was saying that a good amount of her class were still looking for jobs 6 months after graduating. There is difficulty, it is hard to find jobs now. Ask the people on here currently looking who have already addressed this and said flat out they are having issues.

Again, no one is saying we are doomed, we are saying that you need to have these issues in mind. You should be worried about if you can find a job after you graduate, if you aren't worried about that, then you need to think about that. Finding a job after graduation is important and you don't really want to be one of those who are "in an other field" or "in a grad program"... no one wants that.
Basically at this point I'm just looking to agree that there are important factors that temper the otherwise negative conclusions being drawn about the field as it currently is. At this point it will just be a back and forth over conjectures.
 
Relatives currently own multiple practices... happened to give me the opportunity to listen to the opinions of many other practice owners. I suppose that's pretty useless.

Hey, well that's good news for you. If you have relatives that own practices, then that may make things easier for you when its time to get a job. They can probably take you in.
 
Also, keep in mind that AVMA is not going to shoot itself in the foot. They are not going to say hey, we are over accepting students to make money, but there are no jobs out there. A large part of it is due to the economy and the other part I think its the corporate mentality of the institutions that are supposed to be educational. I don't know... this is one of toughest decisions I have ever been faced with. You can't really blame anesthtc. She is probably where you were a few years ago. Loves the field with a lot of hopes and dreams...who wants to admit that their dream profession is really failing...no one!
Yea the hard part is that the AVMA has outright said they refuse to interfere in market forces at all. Really comes down to the universities themselves.
Ha. I guess I'm a "she" now.


Hey, well that's good news for you. If you have relatives that own practices, then that may make things easier for you when its time to get a job. They can probably take you in.
I'm looking to avoid it if I can. I'm sure you can tell I'm pretty determined to push my way uphill. 😛 That and not having to stare at my baby pictures in the office.
 
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Yea the hard part is that the AVMA has outright said they refuse to interfere in market forces at all. Really comes down to the universities themselves.
Ha. I guess I'm a "she" now.



I'm looking to avoid it if I can. I'm sure you can tell I'm pretty determined to push my way uphill. 😛

Someone said to me that there is no right or wrong in this world. Its about the consequences of your actions. If you have fully considered everything, and you are still determined to do it, then more power to you... go for it. Word to the wise though, in this life, if you have help, use it. You don't have to fight all battles...life is not long enough for that! 🙂
and sorry about the she. I just assumed.....my bad!
 
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