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Hey I've noticed some trhreads about going to med school after practicing as a PA, since I just matched at my top choice for residency I decided to give you an idea of my journey.

THE DECISION

I decided to go to medical school during my clinical year in PA school, as i got the sense that being a PA would not be enough for me. I graduated, got a job at an outpatient clinic and took the pre-requisites that I needed in the evenings. My total GPA from undergrand and PA school was 3.8, science GPA was 3.6.

I took my 2 week vacation from work and studied everyday for the MCAT and got a 30P (12;10;8) and applied to 10 allopathic schools. Got interview invites to 8, ultimately was accepted at the 1st place I interviewed 2 weeks later, and decided to cancel all interviews except 3 local ones. I ended up being accepted to all 4 schools, with full scholarships to 3 of them.

The interviews all went pretty smoothly, as most of the interviewers were interested in discussing what I did as a PA (manage chronic conditions mostly, nothing exciting), so I think being a PA definitely helped during this early phase.

FIRST YEAR

First year med school was the hardest year of schooling I have ever undertaken. Forget that. COMBINE all of my years of udergrad and PA school and 1st year med school would still be harder. The amount of material I needed to learn was astronomical, and PA school did not help one iota. Even anatomy and Physiology was hard for me and I got a combination of B's and C's. I had never had a C up until that point, and rarely ever got B's so I really questioned my ability, my decision and my sanity.

I got a job with an agency that staffed emergency rooms across the state, and worked in fast track from 2pm to midnight (my school days ended at noon for the most part, with the exception of one evening of clinical medicine). Working full time MAY have played a role in my struggles, but to be honest, even if I had more time to study, I probably would have still had a hard time. I got a job offer to work in a pain practive for $75/hr the summer between 1st and 2nd year (I would have to quit med school), and almost took it...that's how hard med school was.

Second Year

Ahhh, now the PA background comes into play. Pharmacology, Pathophys, Pathology...these are courses I aced with relatively little effort. I continued to work full time, and even picked up an extra shift or two and still did *extremely* well 2nd year. I think this year was as easy for me as 1st year was hard. I literally felt like I was back in undergrad with the ease of which I killed this year.

STEP 1

I took 2 weeks off from work and studied all day for this exam. This was perhaps the worst 2 weeks of my life (no hyperbole), cuz it was study from sun-up to sundown and I managed a meager 230 (mean was 226 I think). This exam was brutal. I used First Aid, and USMLE Rx even though everyone else used USMLE World so I'm not sure if that played a role in my avg results.

THIRD YEAR

The decision on whether to tell fellow classmates, residents and attendings that you're a PA is a tough one. On my very first rotation I did...and I ended up covering twice the patients, and therefore had less time to attend educational activities. I was unale to work full time because of the unpredictable nature of clerkships, but I did manage to work 20-24 hours/week.

Basically no matter how much prior clinical experience you have, it won't help you schedule appointments, write and dictate discharge summaries, chase down labs and images, and follow up tests any faster. So if the team thinks that you can handle twice the patient load because you're a PA, then it might be a disadvantage. On subsequent rotations I just kept my mouth shut. Although this too has its disadvantages, as they might be less likely to take you seriously when you want to correct an obvious mistake (i.e. an intern trying to prescribe Keflex as a qd medication because she thought that's what the Ortho team ordered on the chart).

Basically third year had its ups and downs. I killed some rotations, and on other rotations, the attending barely noticed the students were there so it was difficult to stand out. So I had a mix of Honors and High Passes. But being a PA definitely helped as my technical skills with respect to IV placement, central line placement, and phlebotomy which garnered accolades from the team and the nursing staff. And I was able to get a VERY nice LOR from my medicine attending who knew I was a PA but was still impressed by my knowledge base and technical skils.

Fourth year

Fourth year was rough in the beginning because you're scrambling for LORs and trying to cram all of the AIs and the electives needed for your specialty in the beginning so you can have the grades in b4 the MSPE goes out. I took STEP 2 early (studied two weeks) and did really well (250/99). Being a PA probably played a huge role in how easy that exam was for me.
Interviewing was a breeze again, because basically they all wanted to talk about how I was able to work as a PA while attending medical school. I got great interview invites, basically almost everywhere I applied, and was able to rank 12 places that were all very good University programs for my specialty. I matched at my number one, which was a very competitive program in a competitive specialty (won't say what since I'm trying to maintain some anonymity).

So in conclusion I would say being a PA helps in the application to med school phase, Did NOT help me AT ALL during 1st year. Helps in making very good money during med school (I have $ 32,000 in debt...all subsidized). It helps in 2nd year tremendously, helps a little during 3rd and 4th year, but the attendings and residents you work with play a larger role in my opinion, and helps tremendously during application to residency.

The knowledge you gain going to med school is a big reason why I do not regret my decision and it really is true that you just "don't know how much you don't know" when you're a PA. I was able to work full time the 1st two yrs and at least half time my last 2 yrs, so the economic impact may not have been as great for me as it might be for some other PAs who are unable to work. My dilemma now is do I work part time as a PA during residency until I'm able to pass STEP 3 and moonlight as a physician. My starting salary as an intern is $46,000 (!), less than half of what I made in the ED.

 

tncekm

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I honestly think someone could work about 20hrs/wk, give or take a few, in med school if they're pretty smart and have a flexible job. But, full time? I'm calling BS. If you worked 3 12's a week, and were given extra time before large exam's (e.g. maybe only working 1 or 2 shifts that week), I might believe it (under the assumption you didn't sleep much and are pretty intellectually gifted). And, being that this is your first post obviously doesn't help (along with other trollish gems in your post).
 

Dwindlin

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I honestly think someone could work about 20hrs/wk, give or take a few, in med school if they're pretty smart and have a flexible job. But, full time? I'm calling BS. If you worked 3 12's a week, and were given extra time before large exam's (e.g. maybe only working 1 or 2 shifts that week), I might believe it (under the assumption you didn't sleep much and are pretty intellectually gifted). And, being that this is your first post obviously doesn't help (along with other trollish gems in your post).
An ED attending I shadowed with prior to school kept his full time job during his MS1/2 years. And I've talked with several others (anecdotal I know) who worked full time in the pre-clin years. Personally I do 24-36 hours a week (but admitedly I sometimes have down time I can use to study).
 
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I honestly think someone could work about 20hrs/wk, give or take a few, in med school if they're pretty smart and have a flexible job. But, full time? I'm calling BS. If you worked 3 12's a week, and were given extra time before large exam's (e.g. maybe only working 1 or 2 shifts that week), I might believe it (under the assumption you didn't sleep much and are pretty intellectually gifted). And, being that this is your first post obviously doesn't help (along with other trollish gems in your post).
Not sure of the trollish gems you speak of but everything I wrote is true. I worked a combination of 10 and 12 hour shifts throughout the 1st 2 yrs. My school ended at noon so it wasn't that bad to find the hours. The job was indeed flexible in that I signed up for shifts a month ahead of time, and we knew all of our exam dates for the entire semester so I basically made sure not to schedule too many shifts on exam week, and loaded up on the 2nd week of the pay period to get my 80 hours in 2 weeks. 1st year absolutely killed me with regards to study and sleep but 2nd year was a breeze. Feel free to ask me any question that you can think of about PA school, med school, STEP 1, STEP 2, the application process to either med school or residency.
 

tncekm

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An ED attending I shadowed with prior to school kept his full time job during his MS1/2 years. And I've talked with several others (anecdotal I know) who worked full time in the pre-clin years. Personally I do 24-36 hours a week (but admitedly I sometimes have down time I can use to study).
I don't even know how full time is possible given the schedule of classes (even if you skip most classes)--there are mandatory classes from time to time that aren't very friendly with work hours.

I mean, I guess if I count the hours I spend studying, I "could" work full time if the job hours were flexible. But, I just don't know how people have the energy to go to work all day, then study all night (and weekends before big tests). Who the hell has that kind of energy?
 
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I don't even know how full time is possible given the schedule of classes--there are mandatory classes from time to time that aren't very friendly with work hours.

I mean, I guess if I count the hours I spend studying, I "could" work full time if the job hours were flexible. But, I just don't know how people have the energy to go to work all day, then study all night and weekend. Who the hell has that kind of energy?

not only is it possible...but I DID it. Think about how much time you spent watching TV, hanging out, sleeping more than you need to and studying a lil extra and you can trim 40 hours a week out of your schedule. I realize it sounds brutal, and that's why my interviews all went well...because everyone thought it was a difficult endeavor. But my LOR from my medical director and my pay stubs made it worth while.
 

tncekm

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not only is it possible...but I DID it. Think about how much time you spent watching TV, hanging out, sleeping more than you need to and studying a lil extra and you can trim 40 hours a week out of your schedule. I realize it sounds brutal, and that's why my interviews all went well...because everyone thought it was a difficult endeavor. But my LOR from my medical director and my pay stubs made it worth while.
Yeah, that time you "trim" is the favorite part of my life! LOL. That, and having a woman to entertain all the time would just make that a no, no for me.

Meh, I'll take your word for it though. What do I care.

Congrats, and impressive!
 

Dwindlin

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Really the only required class I have is my clinical medicine class which is several hours Friday morning. Other than that I only have to be there for tests and "TBLs" (group learning things we do ~1x a week). All our lectures are recorded, so more than half my class is never there anyways.

As an aside, my job is incredibly flexible. I typically work 36 hours straight (Friday 7p to Sunday 7a) if I don't have an exam that Monday. Weekends before an exam I usually still do my Friday 12 but won't do the 24 on Saturday. But given my previous life I could easily switch that Saturday to a couple more 12's during the week and not be drained.

Edit: It also helps that I love my job, and for me is a great way to blow off steam.
 
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Yeah, that time you "trim" is the favorite part of my life! LOL. That, and having a woman to entertain all the time would just make that a no, no for me.

Meh, I'll take your word for it though. What do I care.

Congrats, and impressive!

I'm married so not much entertaining going on here :laugh:
j/k honey
 

emedpa

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I know several other pa to md folks who have had the same experience with ms1 very hard and ms2-4 a cakewalk. they all worked 20-30 hrs/week as pa's as well and got high usmle's and matched at their first choices. contact pacmatt or bandit here or at the pa forum for more info. bandit even got his first choice em pick outside the match after rotating there.
as you noticed ms3 is basically pa2 again.
 
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tncekm

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Seriously? Did she ever see you? LOL!


1st year not much at all. 2nd year, a WHOLE lot because I didn't have to put in that many study hours as the material was so familiar to me. 3rd and 4th year I only worked half time, so on the easy rotations I had plenty of free time, and on the not so easy rotations (medicine/surgery/OB), then it was pretty bad. But when you get married you'll see that a little time apart just makes it all the more special when you do spend time 2gether
 
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I decided to go to medical school during my clinical year in PA school, as i got the sense that being a PA would not be enough for me.
Congrats PACMD...your journey is very impressive. Just curious...What was missing for you as a PA? Is it the autonomy? Or the knowledge? How do you think your lifestyle will differ as an MD as opposed to being a PA (aside from the $$..haha)?...thanks and congrats again!
 

tncekm

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1st year not much at all. 2nd year, a WHOLE lot because I didn't have to put in that many study hours as the material was so familiar to me. 3rd and 4th year I only worked half time, so on the easy rotations I had plenty of free time, and on the not so easy rotations (medicine/surgery/OB), then it was pretty bad. But when you get married you'll see that a little time apart just makes it all the more special when you do spend time 2gether
Ha, ha. I've been together with my wife for a decade--no breaks, no problems. I spend a ton of time with her on a daily basis, and can't imagine things being any different.

But, hey, if you can deal with it, that's awesome.
 

princekc

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Hey I've noticed some trhreads about going to med school after practicing as a PA, since I just matched at my top choice for residency I decided to give you an idea of my journey.

THE DECISION

I decided to go to medical school during my clinical year in PA school, as i got the sense that being a PA would not be enough for me. I graduated, got a job at an outpatient clinic and took the pre-requisites that I needed in the evenings. My total GPA from undergrand and PA school was 3.8, science GPA was 3.6.

I took my 2 week vacation from work and studied everyday for the MCAT and got a 30P (12;10;8) and applied to 10 allopathic schools. Got interview invites to 8, ultimately was accepted at the 1st place I interviewed 2 weeks later, and decided to cancel all interviews except 3 local ones. I ended up being accepted to all 4 schools, with full scholarships to 3 of them.

The interviews all went pretty smoothly, as most of the interviewers were interested in discussing what I did as a PA (manage chronic conditions mostly, nothing exciting), so I think being a PA definitely helped during this early phase.

FIRST YEAR

First year med school was the hardest year of schooling I have ever undertaken. Forget that. COMBINE all of my years of udergrad and PA school and 1st year med school would still be harder. The amount of material I needed to learn was astronomical, and PA school did not help one iota. Even anatomy and Physiology was hard for me and I got a combination of B's and C's. I had never had a C up until that point, and rarely ever got B's so I really questioned my ability, my decision and my sanity.

I got a job with an agency that staffed emergency rooms across the state, and worked in fast track from 2pm to midnight (my school days ended at noon for the most part, with the exception of one evening of clinical medicine). Working full time MAY have played a role in my struggles, but to be honest, even if I had more time to study, I probably would have still had a hard time. I got a job offer to work in a pain practive for $75/hr the summer between 1st and 2nd year (I would have to quit med school), and almost took it...that's how hard med school was.

Second Year

Ahhh, now the PA background comes into play. Pharmacology, Pathophys, Pathology...these are courses I aced with relatively little effort. I continued to work full time, and even picked up an extra shift or two and still did *extremely* well 2nd year. I think this year was as easy for me as 1st year was hard. I literally felt like I was back in undergrad with the ease of which I killed this year.

STEP 1

I took 2 weeks off from work and studied all day for this exam. This was perhaps the worst 2 weeks of my life (no hyperbole), cuz it was study from sun-up to sundown and I managed a meager 230 (mean was 226 I think). This exam was brutal. I used First Aid, and USMLE Rx even though everyone else used USMLE World so I'm not sure if that played a role in my avg results.

THIRD YEAR

The decision on whether to tell fellow classmates, residents and attendings that you're a PA is a tough one. On my very first rotation I did...and I ended up covering twice the patients, and therefore had less time to attend educational activities. I was unale to work full time because of the unpredictable nature of clerkships, but I did manage to work 20-24 hours/week.

Basically no matter how much prior clinical experience you have, it won't help you schedule appointments, write and dictate discharge summaries, chase down labs and images, and follow up tests any faster. So if the team thinks that you can handle twice the patient load because you're a PA, then it might be a disadvantage. On subsequent rotations I just kept my mouth shut. Although this too has its disadvantages, as they might be less likely to take you seriously when you want to correct an obvious mistake (i.e. an intern trying to prescribe Keflex as a qd medication because she thought that's what the Ortho team ordered on the chart).

Basically third year had its ups and downs. I killed some rotations, and on other rotations, the attending barely noticed the students were there so it was difficult to stand out. So I had a mix of Honors and High Passes. But being a PA definitely helped as my technical skills with respect to IV placement, central line placement, and phlebotomy which garnered accolades from the team and the nursing staff. And I was able to get a VERY nice LOR from my medicine attending who knew I was a PA but was still impressed by my knowledge base and technical skils.

Fourth year

Fourth year was rough in the beginning because you're scrambling for LORs and trying to cram all of the AIs and the electives needed for your specialty in the beginning so you can have the grades in b4 the MSPE goes out. I took STEP 2 early (studied two weeks) and did really well (250/99). Being a PA probably played a huge role in how easy that exam was for me.
Interviewing was a breeze again, because basically they all wanted to talk about how I was able to work as a PA while attending medical school. I got great interview invites, basically almost everywhere I applied, and was able to rank 12 places that were all very good University programs for my specialty. I matched at my number one, which was a very competitive program in a competitive specialty (won't say what since I'm trying to maintain some anonymity).

So in conclusion I would say being a PA helps in the application to med school phase, Did NOT help me AT ALL during 1st year. Helps in making very good money during med school (I have $ 32,000 in debt...all subsidized). It helps in 2nd year tremendously, helps a little during 3rd and 4th year, but the attendings and residents you work with play a larger role in my opinion, and helps tremendously during application to residency.

The knowledge you gain going to med school is a big reason why I do not regret my decision and it really is true that you just "don't know how much you don't know" when you're a PA. I was able to work full time the 1st two yrs and at least half time my last 2 yrs, so the economic impact may not have been as great for me as it might be for some other PAs who are unable to work. My dilemma now is do I work part time as a PA during residency until I'm able to pass STEP 3 and moonlight as a physician. My starting salary as an intern is $46,000 (!), less than half of what I made in the ED.

Congrat!
 

emedpa

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I read that he did not match. Maybe we are talking about two different "bandit"s.
He got a slot outside the match at the same place he worked at while a pa.
don't know if there is more than 1 bandit. last I heard from him was 1/2 way through his internship. I think he's probably pgy3 this yr.
 

tkim

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emedpa

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tkim

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Must be. the other one sent me a note as an intern. this one is listed as "school admin" which I don't beleive he is.
also as a DO aren't there almost always open slots through the osteo match ? (no slight intended to DO's, I've just never heard of one not getting an md or do pgy slot).
Usually EM fills every year.

There's more than one bandit who's a PA on here? Hmmm. Nope.
 

emedpa

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well, if it is him maybe by "outside the match" what he really meant was "scramble". after reviewing posts I agree it is unlikely that we're talking about different folks.
I'm not trying to be evasive, I just know the bandit I know was an em intern a while ago. I will try to contact him through the pa forum where he is also a member.
FWIW I know where pacmatt ended up and I know he is an em attending now.
 

tkim

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well, if it is him maybe by "outside the match" what he really meant was "scramble". after reviewing posts I agree it is unlikely that we're talking about different folks.
I'm not trying to be evasive, I just know the bandit I know was an em intern a while ago. I will try to contact him through the pa forum where he is also a member.
FWIW I know where pacmatt ended up and I know he is an em attending now.
Yeah, I remember him too. He got banned from here.
 

emedpa

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his account is still active, I just checked.
see pacmatthew.
same guy. initials MJM.
attending em doc in tx. with this group:
http://www.affilion.com/index.html
he wanted to recruit me last yr for a spot with his group. I considered the las cruces position but they couldn't match my current job in several respects.
 

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thanks for the perspective! I read all that and :eek::scared::scared: Man I BOW DOWN!!!

I am SOOOO glad that I am going to be a PA. I never had the "top dog" desire and love the fact that my SP's/Preceptors are there as a safety net.

Dude you rock! I wish you all the best and please continue to support PA's in your practice!
 

emedpa

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I got in touch with bandit today. he is finishing his R3 yr and has a job lined up to start in july.
 
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Bandit

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I didnt get the spot I originally had hoped for but it wound up being the best thing that ever happened to me. Funny how life works. I got a better, more complete medical education. I can work ER or internal med anywhere in the world.

The people I am associated with at this program are of the highest quality and I respect all of them very much. More than I can say for other programs I know of :)

I wish everyone good luck. I couldnt be happier.
 

Bandit

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Im not yet a 3rd year but Im gettin through. I am starting a moonlighting gig that is paying me well. Three times what i made as a PA. Very excited.

I was never banned from here!! Who started all that??
 

emedpa

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I think they were saying pacmatt got banned, not you.
 

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I didnt get the spot I originally had hoped for but it wound up being the best thing that ever happened to me. Funny how life works. I got a better, more complete medical education. I can work ER or internal med anywhere in the world.

The people I am associated with at this program are of the highest quality and I respect all of them very much. More than I can say for other programs I know of :)

I wish everyone good luck. I couldnt be happier.

So you're doing a combined EM/IM program?
 

physasst

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I know several other pa to md folks who have had the same experience with ms1 very hard and ms2-4 a cakewalk. they all worked 20-30 hrs/week as pa's as well and got high usmle's and matched at their first choices. contact pacmatt or bandit here or at the pa forum for more info. bandit even got his first choice em pick outside the match after rotating there.
as you noticed ms3 is basically pa2 again.

Yep, I've had at least 4 friends over the course of my career go back to med school after working as a PA for a while. Their experience is similar to PACMD's. 1st year is difficult, as we don't get very detailed basic science stuff. 2nd year is pretty easy, as it is very similar to PA year 1. 3rd year is essentially PA year 2. Basically, the gist of it is, PA's would mostly fail USMLE step 1, about 50% would pass step 2, and virtually every PA would pass step 3.

Most physicians I work with would argue to some degree about how important the basic science stuff is (Histology, Embryology, etc.) for the majority of physicians. To me the REAL difference in education is not in school. It is the residency. I precept Medical Students, and while they are almost uniformly bright, and very well educated, practical knowledge is often lacking. I do not mean that in a negative manner, just a statement of fact. The big difference is looking at an MS3, and a PGY 3. THAT is where the real educational difference lies....in the residency.

I am completing my doctoral now, but in health policy and research, because my interests lie in other areas. I still enjoy clinical practice (Emergency Medicine) and will always practice to some degree, but I have cultivated a national reputation in health policy, and am beginning to develop a reputation in physician/medical workforce research as well.

To PACMD....Congrats!
 

corpsmanUP

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It's interesting experiencing being talked about while you are making your way through an entire thread. You just want to start typing and screaming, "Hey, I didn't get banned....Hey, I'm here, I'm alive" LOL:laugh:

I think what Kim is referring to is the time I got sanctioned for something I did on here. I think I told somebody off who probably deserved it. I think it was MacGyver if I recall. In fact I think it was Kim who reported me. Well Kim, sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm alive and well, and as you can see, this membership has been in effect for 5 years.

I think Kim was probably commenting on Bandit because I think he must have known him personally. I think Kim did residency at Buffalo where Bandit worked for a long time. He obviously knew that Bandit was not in that program as he was there himself.

Emed is just confused because my name on the PA Forum is PACMatt. Here I am Corpsman.

And to get back to the main point of the thread, congrats PACMD!! I swear reading your story was like reliving my own. I second every thing you said about the process. And I certainly BELIEVE you and do not think you are a troll. The poster who said you were a troll and that your story was unlikely is just jealous. I too worked a ton during medical school.

I would caution you from working during your internship. It is one of the most humbling and toughest years of your life in terms of work hours. And it's time to relax a bit and focus on being a doctor. There is too much liability in my mind in working as a PA when you have a medical degree. Just don't do it. It's not worth it. You will soon be able to moonlight and do well. And when you are an attending, you will more than make up for the amount you lost that year. Trust me!!! :D
 

tkim

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I think what Kim is referring to is the time I got sanctioned for something I did on here. I think I told somebody off who probably deserved it. I think it was MacGyver if I recall. In fact I think it was Kim who reported me. Well Kim, sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm alive and well, and as you can see, this membership has been in effect for 5 years.
Nope, didn't report you. And yup, we knew the minute you came back.
 

Socrates25

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Most physicians I work with would argue to some degree about how important the basic science stuff is (Histology, Embryology, etc.) for the majority of physicians. To me the REAL difference in education is not in school. It is the residency. I precept Medical Students, and while they are almost uniformly bright, and very well educated, practical knowledge is often lacking. I do not mean that in a negative manner, just a statement of fact.
Fortunately a PA never "precepted" me in med school, programs in which PAs "precept" med students should be shut down. (here's the cue for emedpa and the other super-PAs with their stupid anecdotes about how the dean of their medical school was a PA, or about how they run all the courses for the med students and they have to sign off on them before graduation). Let me guess: you work at some rural backwoods DO program like Rocky Vista.

The big difference is looking at an MS3, and a PGY 3. THAT is where the real educational difference lies....in the residency.
Yeah, but we all know from the PAs on this forum that X years of experience is the same thing as a residency. Hell emedpa has already done over 5 residencies due to all his work experience and is far more knowledgeable and experienced than any attending EM physician. :rolleyes:

I am completing my doctoral now, but in health policy and research, because my interests lie in other areas. I still enjoy clinical practice (Emergency Medicine) and will always practice to some degree, but I have cultivated a national reputation in health policy, and am beginning to develop a reputation in physician/medical workforce research as well.
Yeah I know your type. Constantly publishing BS studies in third tier trash journals trying to "prove" that NPs and PAs are equal/superior to physicians and are therefore capable of replacing MDs. Was your work published in "Physician Assistant Journal of America" or was it "Healthcare Workforce Journal" with its estimated readership at 23 individuals. :laugh:
 

Socrates25

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I would caution you from working during your internship. It is one of the most humbling and toughest years of your life in terms of work hours. And it's time to relax a bit and focus on being a doctor. There is too much liability in my mind in working as a PA when you have a medical degree. Just don't do it. It's not worth it. You will soon be able to moonlight and do well. And when you are an attending, you will more than make up for the amount you lost that year. Trust me!!! :D
You guys are soft. I worked a full time moonlighting gig during my intern year. Working during med school? What a joke, I'm not impressed.
 

corpsmanUP

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You guys are soft. I worked a full time moonlighting gig during my intern year. Working during med school? What a joke, I'm not impressed.

I smell a "one upper". Come on man, can't you just give these people the respect they deserve and go back to whatever it is you are doing? I mean what specialty are you anyway that you had all this time in your intern year? And how did you moonlight full time in intern year seeing as though you have to have a license to practice in that state before you can officially moonlight? And that license requires at least one post grad residency year.
 

Bandit

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lolololol
I remember MacGyver. What a douche bag lolol
 

bradt9881

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Fortunately a PA never "precepted" me in med school, programs in which PAs "precept" med students should be shut down. (here's the cue for emedpa and the other super-PAs with their stupid anecdotes about how the dean of their medical school was a PA, or about how they run all the courses for the med students and they have to sign off on them before graduation). Let me guess: you work at some rural backwoods DO program like Rocky Vista.



Yeah, but we all know from the PAs on this forum that X years of experience is the same thing as a residency. Hell emedpa has already done over 5 residencies due to all his work experience and is far more knowledgeable and experienced than any attending EM physician. :rolleyes:



Yeah I know your type. Constantly publishing BS studies in third tier trash journals trying to "prove" that NPs and PAs are equal/superior to physicians and are therefore capable of replacing MDs. Was your work published in "Physician Assistant Journal of America" or was it "Healthcare Workforce Journal" with its estimated readership at 23 individuals. :laugh:

And we know your type; too proud and too stupid to learn anything from anyone else outside your chain of command, who likes to come to the forum and stir up trouble for troubles sake;). Do yourself a favor and get a rectal cranialectomy before you kill your patient in real life from that prima donna attitude.
 

corpsmanUP

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lolololol
I remember MacGyver. What a douche bag lolol
Temporary hijacking, my apologies!

BANDIT!!!! Wow, it's been a really long time. Man I wish I had known you were interviewing back when. I was just down the road from you in central Pa (Geisinger). Hope you are well buddy. So where are you going to work?
 

corpsmanUP

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What kind of residency is that?
Sounds like he did IM. And with his experience in EM, one could argue he is significantly more rounded and well prepared to practice EM or IM better than most people. I work with some IM/EM guys and they are all very sharp guys. I would probably bet Bandit now will be as valuable as any of them. I was the director of a group hiring a new doctor I would hire someone like this. Sure they may never be board certified in EM but it would be a lot like EMED going to medical school and doing an IM residency. I would bet he would be as good as any practicing EM doc with his experience, and the stuff he learned in an IM medicine would just be icing on the cake.
 

illegallysmooth

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Sounds like he did IM. And with his experience in EM, one could argue he is significantly more rounded and well prepared to practice EM or IM better than most people. I work with some IM/EM guys and they are all very sharp guys. I would probably bet Bandit now will be as valuable as any of them. I was the director of a group hiring a new doctor I would hire someone like this. Sure they may never be board certified in EM but it would be a lot like EMED going to medical school and doing an IM residency. I would bet he would be as good as any practicing EM doc with his experience, and the stuff he learned in an IM medicine would just be icing on the cake.
I know I should let him answer for himself, but he rarely signs on here.

He did FM.
 

Dwindlin

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Sounds like he did IM. And with his experience in EM, one could argue he is significantly more rounded and well prepared to practice EM or IM better than most people. I work with some IM/EM guys and they are all very sharp guys. I would probably bet Bandit now will be as valuable as any of them. I was the director of a group hiring a new doctor I would hire someone like this. Sure they may never be board certified in EM but it would be a lot like EMED going to medical school and doing an IM residency. I would bet he would be as good as any practicing EM doc with his experience, and the stuff he learned in an IM medicine would just be icing on the cake.
His experience aside people circumventing the ABEM is not a good thing for the specialty in general. This amounts to the same thing as those who claim "Board Certified" when in fact they only hold the certificate from the ABMS. If you want to practice EM, you should do the residency.
 

corpsmanUP

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His experience aside people circumventing the ABEM is not a good thing for the specialty in general. This amounts to the same thing as those who claim "Board Certified" when in fact they only hold the certificate from the ABMS. If you want to practice EM, you should do the residency.
In a perfect world, all ED's would be staffed with boarded EM physicians. And maybe one day we will be to that point. Until then, there will still be a huge need for experienced EM physicians. I'm in no way saying that these people should be eligible for board certification. That is not something I support. Practice in a semi rural area where EM docs are impossible to recruit (as an EM physician) and you will be greatful that you have partners who are decent, even if they are IM, FM, or any specialty. Try not to be so omnipotently condescending when you haven't even started your med school clinicals for crying out loud.
 

Bandit

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Im in a 4 year dual track osteopathic medicine program with a 4th year in all EM/Trauma.

Again, more complete education with more opportunities after. best thing that ever happened to me.

Actually whats funny is that after all those years in ED I never really appreciated how great intensive medicine was. I could spend my entire career in the ICU and be very happy. I will always enjopy the ED and obviously could work ER without difficulty but there is really something to be said for expanding your experiences.

Seriously, I am ridiculously happy Im not in the original program I applied to. :)

I also see nothing wrong with being "EM" "certified" thru the AA of physician specialists. The country needs ER docs. Unless you are in a trauma center ya really dont need to much of the trauma beyond that of ATLS.

Illagally smooth---you sound like an amazingly beautiful woman.
 

Dwindlin

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In a perfect world, all ED's would be staffed with boarded EM physicians. And maybe one day we will be to that point. Until then, there will still be a huge need for experienced EM physicians. I'm in no way saying that these people should be eligible for board certification. That is not something I support. Practice in a semi rural area where EM docs are impossible to recruit (as an EM physician) and you will be greatful that you have partners who are decent, even if they are IM, FM, or any specialty. Try not to be so omnipotently condescending when you haven't even started your med school clinicals for crying out loud.
You can't express tone over a web based forum, that was not meant to be condescending, simply a statement of opinion.

My statement has nothing to do with clinician ability, I have no doubt he's a good clinician. My statement is more political than anything else. Do I know there is a shortage of EP working rural EDs? Yes. Doesn't change my opinion that non- EM boarded physicians shouldn't be staffing EDs.