From Reddit: "IAMAn M4 student member of my school's admissions committee--AMAA"

[deleted482591]

https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/48b343/iaman_m4_student_member_of_my_schools_admissions/


Something of interest:

Q: "Would you consider hospice volunteering as clinical if it involves direct patient support (socialization, reading, etc)?"

A: "Socializing and reading are not clinical experiences. We are talking about roles like EMT or CNA, where your primary role is tending to the patient's healthcare."


Q: Could you give me a general idea of how much clinical experience a good applicant usually has? I shadowed some doctors in high school, which I don't expect to help me much now, so I'm currently filling out paperwork to start shadowing again now but it may be hard to get over 100 hrs while working full time.

A: We're usually looking for an experience lasting more than 3 months in which you had a significant role in patient care. I couldn't say that there is a "standard" amount of direct patient care experience for medical students, but competitive applicants usually have a year or more of roles like EMT, scribe, CNA, nursing, etc. that gives them a really good look at what a doctor's job is like.

Q: My question is one that seems to generate many different answers: what actually constitutes clinical experience? For example, would volunteering at a front desk at a hospital count?

A: It's a good question, but no, volunteering at a hospital is not considered clinical experience unless you are volunteering in direct patient care capacity (EMT, CNA, etc.). Direct patient care experiences--where you have a defined role in treating patients' medical conditions--are the best, but shadowing is an acceptable stand-in if you don't have the opportunity to do direct patient care.



I seem to remember some adcoms on here (LizzyM maybe?) saying that 'if you can smell a patient it's clinical experience.'


So is this guy BSing or what?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

i don't believe for a second that this fool is a med student.

https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/48b343/iaman_m4_student_member_of_my_schools_admissions/


Something of interest:

Q: "Would you consider hospice volunteering as clinical if it involves direct patient support (socialization, reading, etc)?"

A: "Socializing and reading are not clinical experiences. We are talking about roles like EMT or CNA, where your primary role is tending to the patient's healthcare."


I seem to remember some adcoms on here (LizzyM maybe?) saying that 'if you can smell a patient it's clinical experience.'


So is this guy BSing or what?

 

[notofimportance143]

This scared me for a second!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Maybe he's from Rush? I wonder how many doctors had to work as a CNA or EMT before they could make the cut.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I think its possible that this person is from a specific medical school that highly values these types of activities. Given the wide sample size of people not doing these things here, I would imagine that this is not representative of most medical schools.

 

[Glandzburg]

While answering a different question about the new MCAT, he said that his school is having trouble interpreting the results because "people have been doing so much better than before."

Am I missing something about how percentiles work or...?

 

[medic86]

While answering a different question about the new MCAT, he said that his school is having trouble interpreting the results because "people have been doing so much better than before."

Am I missing something about how percentiles work or...?

No. It just seems like that M4 hasn't got a clue.

 

[alomoma]

While answering a different question about the new MCAT, he said that his school is having trouble interpreting the results because "people have been doing so much better than before."

Am I missing something about how percentiles work or...?

It is true that the scores are bigger numbers 😛

 

[Sardinia]

So 10,000+ applications implies Drexel, Georgetown, Temple, George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Lucca]

I think its possible that this person is from a specific medical school that highly values these types of activities. Given the wide sample size of people not doing these things here, I would imagine that this is not representative of most medical schools.

This was my first thought. Nobody does those particular clinical experiences here (or at least it is very, very uncommon) and nobody who would be considered competitive according to the SDN dogma has had any problems getting into one, two or many medical schools in Texas or without.

 

[Hospitalized]

So 10,000+ applications implies Drexel, Georgetown, Temple, George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson.

I got my money on Drexel.

 

[LizzyM]

I find it highly unusual for a school to expect applicants to have wiped a patient's *** (and in reality, many *****) whereas my standard has always been that they've been close enough to know whether or not it had been done.

I seem to recall someone a few years ago who got into a state school (East Tennessee -- or something like that ) on the second try after having a full time job for a year or two that was very "hands on". It is certainly not the norm at the top tier schools.

 

[christmasindr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/48b343/iaman_m4_student_member_of_my_schools_admissions/


Something of interest:

Q: "Would you consider hospice volunteering as clinical if it involves direct patient support (socialization, reading, etc)?"

A: "Socializing and reading are not clinical experiences. We are talking about roles like EMT or CNA, where your primary role is tending to the patient's healthcare."


Q: Could you give me a general idea of how much clinical experience a good applicant usually has? I shadowed some doctors in high school, which I don't expect to help me much now, so I'm currently filling out paperwork to start shadowing again now but it may be hard to get over 100 hrs while working full time.

A: We're usually looking for an experience lasting more than 3 months in which you had a significant role in patient care. I couldn't say that there is a "standard" amount of direct patient care experience for medical students, but competitive applicants usually have a year or more of roles like EMT, scribe, CNA, nursing, etc. that gives them a really good look at what a doctor's job is like.

Q: My question is one that seems to generate many different answers: what actually constitutes clinical experience? For example, would volunteering at a front desk at a hospital count?

A: It's a good question, but no, volunteering at a hospital is not considered clinical experience unless you are volunteering in direct patient care capacity (EMT, CNA, etc.). Direct patient care experiences--where you have a defined role in treating patients' medical conditions--are the best, but shadowing is an acceptable stand-in if you don't have the opportunity to do direct patient care.



I seem to remember some adcoms on here (LizzyM maybe?) saying that 'if you can smell a patient it's clinical experience.'


So is this guy BSing or what?

Nope. I don't know what school this person goes to, but it's generally not true that you need to be an EMT, CNA, etc. Shadowing could be nice, but it is also not a requirement for most schools either.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Nope. I don't know what school this person goes to, but it's generally not true that you need to be an EMT, CNA, etc. Shadowing could be nice, but it is also not a requirement for most schools either.

Shadowing is definitely more important than having EMT/CNA/etc experience.

 

[whatever5]

Maybe he's from Rush? I wonder how many doctors had to work as a CNA or EMT before they could make the cut.

I got into Rush without doing any of those things, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Probably an opinionated premed looking for attention.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I got into Rush without doing any of those things, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I had a good friend get interviews/acceptances at places like Duke, WashU, Northwestern, etc who got a very nasty rejection email from Rush telling them to get a lot more clinical exposure and then reapply, so I see where people might get that kind of idea about the school.

 

[whatever5]

I had a good friend get interviews/acceptances at places like Duke, WashU, Northwestern, etc who got a very nasty rejection email from Rush telling them to get a lot more clinical exposure and then reapply, so I see where people might get that kind of idea about the school.

Lol I would love to see what is considered a "very nasty rejection email"

 

[WedgeDawg]

Lol I would love to see what is considered a "very nasty rejection email"

I used to have it in my text history but I dont think it saves that far back 🙁

I can ask if you're curious.

 

[whatever5]

I used to have it in my text history but I dont think it saves that far back 🙁

I can ask if you're curious.

Yes please!

 

[Dr.NickRiviera]

I reddit-stalked the dude. He lives in Richmond, VA and so, probably attends VCU.

 

[kitkat13]

I reddit-stalked the dude. He lives in Richmond, VA

lol @ the wonders of the internet. What a time to be alive.

 

[Dr. Retractor]

When I read that thread, I assumed it was a student that was part of the admissions committee just so they can say they have student representation but in reality his opinions have no weight... or maybe I'm just projecting. Also, this reminds me of some of the premeds at my school who are EMT's/CNAs/MAs and get in to med school and then tell everyone that that activity was the main reason they got in and you can't get accepted without them unless you have superstar stats. All that to say that his answers are basically worthless.

 

[Mansamusa]

I reddit-stalked the dude. He lives in Richmond, VA and so, probably attends VCU.

Yeah, and he mentioned a regional campus that many students don't know about (INOVA- VCU's campus near DC) and the point evaluation system to get an interview getting combined with a point value from the interview is the same system VCU uses.

For what it's worth, I interviewed at VCU back in October and my only clinical experience is the standard ER volunteering

 

[Turkishking]

This scared me for a second!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Scared me too.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

We're usually looking for an experience lasting more than 3 months in which you had a significant role in patient care. I couldn't say that there is a "standard" amount of direct patient care experience for medical students, but competitive applicants usually have a year or more of roles like EMT, scribe, CNA, nursing, etc. that gives them a really good look at what a doctor's job is like.

This dude has gotta be spewing some BS...There is 0 chance they're filling a class of 200 students (so accepting ~400, and interviewing ~1000) who all have at a minimum 3 months of direct patient care or shadowing.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

Lol I would love to see what is considered a "very nasty rejection email"

We regret to inform you that Rush Medical College will not be able to offer you an interview invitation for the 2016 application cycle; be assured that this is a confidential decision, which will not be shared with others.

As noted on the invitation to complete our secondary invitation, the Committee on Admissions minimum criteria for interview invitation eligibility this year included a minimum of 150 hours of community service, as well as 150 hours of healthcare exposure, especially when it involves patient contact.

...

We predict that the 2016 matriculating class will have over 800 hours of community service, and over 1800 hours of health care exposure.

I don't consider it "nasty" but I'm inclined to agree that Rush is very service/experience oriented and I was annoyed that the 150hr requirement was nowhere to be found on their site or secondary invitation. To echo what the other poster said, my app was strong enough to interview at NYU but I received this rejection.

 

[whatever5]

We regret to inform you that Rush Medical College will not be able to offer you an interview invitation for the 2016 application cycle; be assured that this is a confidential decision, which will not be shared with others.

As noted on the invitation to complete our secondary invitation, the Committee on Admissions minimum criteria for interview invitation eligibility this year included a minimum of 150 hours of community service, as well as 150 hours of healthcare exposure, especially when it involves patient contact.

...

We predict that the 2016 matriculating class will have over 800 hours of community service, and over 1800 hours of health care exposure.

I don't consider it "nasty" but I'm inclined to agree that Rush is very service/experience oriented and I was annoyed that the 150hr requirement was nowhere to be found on their site or secondary invitation. To echo what the other poster said, my app was strong enough to interview at NYU but I received this rejection.

Interesting - I went and looked at my secondary invitation and the requirement isn't listed anywhere. Sounds like they just pulled this one out arbitrarily, pretty disrespectful.

 

[jk1006]

Interesting - I went and looked at my secondary invitation and the requirement isn't listed anywhere. Sounds like they just pulled this one out arbitrarily, pretty disrespectful.

They've apparently had that requirement for several years at least, judging by old school discussion threads.
It's just a secret requirement they have. By not disclosing it they sure do make a lot more money from secondary fees.

 

[nwts]

Interesting - I went and looked at my secondary invitation and the requirement isn't listed anywhere. Sounds like they just pulled this one out arbitrarily, pretty disrespectful.

It's strange, I feel like they don't talk about it in a lot of their materials, but they were very up front about it when one of their admissions representatives visited my school.

 

[nRomaleos]

.

 

[Lbjisyuki]

We regret to inform you that Rush Medical College will not be able to offer you an interview invitation for the 2016 application cycle; be assured that this is a confidential decision, which will not be shared with others.

As noted on the invitation to complete our secondary invitation, the Committee on Admissions minimum criteria for interview invitation eligibility this year included a minimum of 150 hours of community service, as well as 150 hours of healthcare exposure, especially when it involves patient contact.

...

We predict that the 2016 matriculating class will have over 800 hours of community service, and over 1800 hours of health care exposure.

I don't consider it "nasty" but I'm inclined to agree that Rush is very service/experience oriented and I was annoyed that the 150hr requirement was nowhere to be found on their site or secondary invitation. To echo what the other poster said, my app was strong enough to interview at NYU but I received this rejection.

The guy is totally from VCU. He talked about how their secondary was a clinical prompt. I also agree Rush should be more explicit, but I wouldn't call it rude or nasty. They are letting the applicant know what he/she needs to be competitive. On Rush's website under admission requirements it lists:

• Demonstrate his or her willingness to put others’ needs before his or her own needs
• Display leadership abilities as demonstrated by involvement in activities and experiences during and beyond his or her undergraduate program
• Demonstrate the value of community service as evidenced by ongoing engagement and experience in programs/activities over the past three to five years
• Demonstrate evidence of previous health care experiences and/or employment

If you did community service for three to five years, you would have over 150 hours easy. Full disclaimer: Going to Rush and I saw this before spent the money on the secondary.

 

[Lannister]

I don't consider it "nasty" but I'm inclined to agree that Rush is very service/experience oriented and I was annoyed that the 150hr requirement was nowhere to be found on their site or secondary invitation. To echo what the other poster said, my app was strong enough to interview at NYU but I received this rejection.

Interesting - I went and looked at my secondary invitation and the requirement isn't listed anywhere. Sounds like they just pulled this one out arbitrarily, pretty disrespectful.

They've apparently had that requirement for several years at least, judging by old school discussion threads.
It's just a secret requirement they have. By not disclosing it they sure do make a lot more money from secondary fees.

Yeah that requirement was not listed ANYWHERE on their website or their secondary that I saw. It's actually pretty upsetting, they're blatantly stealing applicant's money.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

Yeah that requirement was not listed ANYWHERE on their website or their secondary that I saw. It's actually pretty upsetting, they're blatantly stealing applicant's money.

I would guess that some other schools are doing the same thing and just not telling us, but I agree that it seems dishonest of them. Strict requirements like this should be available to applicants.

 

[DRsmartypants]

I really cannot believe they they require 3 months of continuous advanced(compared to other pre-med) clinical experience(like EMT-B) but do not require things like shadowing. Shadowing is increasingly harder to get due to new regulations, so EMT and CNA etc., may be easier ways to gain exposure, but nothing can substitute clinical shadowing for what being a doctor is like. They can't expect that everyone has the money to pay for these courses in CNA and EMT or that they can get jobs for it. This guy may be an adcom, but I doubt he represents the majority of schools. Most of my friends at HMS and JHSM, which are top tier schools, had large amounts of shadowing, research and volujnteering, but at least the shadowing was spare, like a week here, a day there, a month here. It is nearly impossible to get continuous clinical shadowing, most doctors don't think you need that long to get an idea, a week is best. At some point you stop shadowing and essentially become a student where they teach you abotu pathophys and stuff if you are shadowing for long periods of time because there aren't many questions otherwise.

 

[AlteredScale]

Those honestly sound more like requirements for a PA school than an MD school. Though as @WedgeDawg said, there may be specific schools that require such hands on experience. Quite odd.

 

[SkyWierdo]

The guy is totally from VCU. He talked about how their secondary was a clinical prompt. I also agree Rush should be more explicit, but I wouldn't call it rude or nasty. They are letting the applicant know what he/she needs to be competitive. On Rush's website under admission requirements it lists:

• Demonstrate his or her willingness to put others’ needs before his or her own needs
• Display leadership abilities as demonstrated by involvement in activities and experiences during and beyond his or her undergraduate program
• Demonstrate the value of community service as evidenced by ongoing engagement and experience in programs/activities over the past three to five years
• Demonstrate evidence of previous health care experiences and/or employment

If you did community service for three to five years, you would have over 150 hours easy. Full disclaimer: Going to Rush and I saw this before spent the money on the secondary.

I'm in my second year serving in the Peace Corps, and when I got that Rush rejection letter, I was just like, "Did... Did I just get rejected for not having enough community service experience?" I mean it was the 150 healthcare hours that killed me, but still, they could've listed it.

 

[anoxredcat]

****. Scared the bejesus outta me.