Full ride or Ivy Loans? Advice please.

[acab]

For all who are in med school or have already graduated, please shed some light on a rather fortunate dilemma.

I was offered a full ride to NYU, which is my top choice at the moment. However, I got waitlisted at Yale and apparently have a decent chance to get accepted. I loved Yale and its research opportunities. Going to Yale would mean a $15,000-difference in loans per year. I live in NYC and would not mind living in New Haven for a while. I'm really interested in research and hope, as of now, to get a very competitive residency.

For those of you who have gone through this process, what would you suggest? Both schools are excellent and am very thankful that I can even wonder about this. Please note that my family is very low income, and I have financially helped them out for quite a few years.

Thanks in advance.

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[SunnyS81]

NYU is a good school. IS it worth $60k extra? I dunno, that's your call. I don't think the difference is that much (now if it was $100k it might be worth thinking about). Go where you like it more. You should be well prepared for any competitive residency at either school. Yale is very different from most medical schools. If you are all about their system, then go there. I don't think you should worry about the money because although $60k over the long run may sound like a lot, I don't think it is. The wierd thing about financial decisions like this is that schools are asking kids who have never made a lot of their own money to make decisions in the $100k's. I would vote NYU though.....seems like both financially and location wise it favors you.

 

[acab]

Thanks Sunny.

Yes, it's hard to decide on such a huge amount of money without having ever made 1/2 of that.

 

[IlianaSedai]

acab,

In a word, it's up to you. It is hard to know what it'll be like to owe that much extra money without having ever earned (or owed) much yet.

The biggest thing that could make you regret the loans is marrying and/or having a family. That is probably the one place where your debts will really hit you -- not just financially, but also emotionally as you're suddenly realizing you have some responsibility to provide for them. If you don't have immediate plans for marriage and family (i.e. you haven't met anyone yet) then it probably affects you less. I have more immediate plans for such and so I am very glad I don't have very much debt.

 

[oldtimer]

If the difference is only 60K, I would go with Yale. Even if you go into primary care and make around 120K, you can pay off those loans within a year and a half if you live modestly. Is a year and half of income worth a lifetime knowing that you graduated from Yale or that your descendants will get preferential admission treatment because you're an alumnus? I think it is.

 

[idq1i]

For all who are in med school or have already graduated, please shed some light on a rather fortunate dilemma.

I was offered a full ride to NYU, which is my top choice at the moment. However, I got waitlisted at Yale and apparently have a decent chance to get accepted. I loved Yale and its research opportunities. Going to Yale would mean a $15,000-difference in loans per year. I live in NYC and would not mind living in New Haven for a while. I'm really interested in research and hope, as of now, to get a very competitive residency.

For those of you who have gone through this process, what would you suggest? Both schools are excellent and am very thankful that I can even wonder about this. Please note that my family is very low income, and I have financially helped them out for quite a few years.

Thanks in advance.

The only reason for picking $yale$ over free NYU is vanity....and that's not a good reason. Medical education is what you make of it. You will graduate as a fine physician from both schools if you put in the effort. Don't let that stupid us news listing dictate the path you will take in your life. On top of that, NYU and Yale are not that far apart

 

[doc05]

go with nyu. the reasons: (1)you haven't actually gotten into yale. you have only been waitlisted; (2)money. this is a big issue that most incoming medical students underestimate; (3)yale has a great name, but nyu is awesome too; (4)match lists are pretty comparable; (4)plenty of research opportunities at nyu, if you so desire; (5)nyc>>new haven, and that's not just my opinion.

good luck.

 

[lealf-ye]

I will pick YALE. Big name. Very important. It will make a difference when you apply for med school as well as when you apply for residency. Forget about the money.

 

[10minutes]

I will pick YALE. Big name. Very important. It will make a difference when you apply for med school as well as when you apply for residency. Forget about the money.

Ummmm, yeah, I thought he was talking about NYU and Yale MEDICAL School.

 

[acab]

Ummmm, yeah, I thought he was talking about NYU and Yale MEDICAL School.

Yes, I was referring to med school.

Thanks all for your replies. It's very important for me to know the opinions of those who have taken loans and are/were in med school.

Yes, the thought of going to Yale might be out of vanity to an extent. I've gone to public schools all my life, and attending a prestigious university would be really nice (I believe both schools are quite reputable in the medical field). I simply thought that the Yale name might give me an edge if I were to try to get a competitive residency.

 

[idq1i]

Yes, I was referring to med school.

Thanks all for your replies. It's very important for me to know the opinions of those who have taken loans and are/were in med school.

Yes, the thought of going to Yale might be out of vanity to an extent. I've gone to public schools all my life, and attending a prestigious university would be really nice (I believe both schools are quite reputable in the medical field). I simply thought that the Yale name might give me an edge if I were to try to get a competitive residency.

But is the miniscule positive effect worth 60k+? Decide with your mind, not your heart.

 

[lealf-ye]

But is the miniscule positive effect worth 60k+? Decide with your mind, not your heart.

60k is a big $$$ for a student, but probably meanless once you are a doc.

 

[doc05]

60k is a big $$$ for a student, but probably meanless once you are a doc.

meaningless for a doc? I don't think so. When you are a resident trying to scrape by on 40k per year x 3-10 years, and are supporting a family as well, 60k is big bucks.

 

[lealf-ye]

meaningless for a doc? I don't think so. When you are a resident trying to scrape by on 40k per year x 3-10 years, and are supporting a family as well, 60k is big bucks.

residency is difficult.

 

[IlianaSedai]

meaningless for a doc? I don't think so. When you are a resident trying to scrape by on 40k per year x 3-10 years, and are supporting a family as well, 60k is big bucks.

Yup. That's very true.

Most of us don't think about it when we start med school at age 22. However, a lot changes in four years. Some of us don't change, while others go from commitment-phobic to getting married, having kids, or thinking about buying a house (ha) between orientation and graduation.

In a word, at 22 many of us are willing to run all over the country without any concern for debt size or location, in search of brand names. But I'm not sure that at 28 brand names will still be the most important thing in the world to you. You may end up having other things on your mind, and that's where you'll feel the debt.

Still, some people do choose to take on the debt in favor of a more highly-ranked school. It's not immoral to do -- you just have to make your choices and live with them.

 

[tubbs]

go for yale...big names make big differences when it comes to residency matching...i agree with leaf-ye...60K may seem big now, in definately doesn't mean much when you're a doc. that little edge may be well worth it.

 

[macdown]

The Yale name will be meaningless in the end, you will not make any more or any less as a resident or an attending by going (or not going) to Yale... In fact you will be $60K ahead of all of the rest of us out there. Once you start school you will find out that school names are absolutely meaningless and only there to stroke the ego's of the insecure. If I were you I'd pick the free ride.

 

[tubbs]

yeah, i totally agree with you that going to yale won't make you any more prepared as a resident, nor will you be making more money as a resident. but, it surely does help in getting into the residency program that you want.

 

[omarsaleh66]

The Yale name will be meaningless in the end, you will not make any more or any less as a resident or an attending by going (or not going) to Yale... In fact you will be $60K ahead of all of the rest of us out there. Once you start school you will find out that school names are absolutely meaningless and only there to stroke the ego's of the insecure. If I were you I'd pick the free ride.

i used to think that but now im starting to beleive that the rputation does matter. Some people i know with excellent grades and very strong USMLE scores didnt match this year. these people were applying for very competitive residencies and i think that the school;'s reputaiton is what hurt them. So maybe yale is worth it if the OP wants to do a SUPER competitive residency. If the OP is smart and ambitious, then the loans wont matter at the end when he gets the best jobs after coming out of Yale Med and Harvard residency. However, i am ignorant about NYU and i dont know how its reputation is among residency directors. Also one thing to note is what types of departments are strong at NYU. If NYU has the strong departments in the competitive residency u want to go into, then atleast u have a good chance of getting it even if u diss yale and go to NYU.

holler

 

[lealf-ye]

i used to think that but now im starting to beleive that the rputation does matter. Some people i know with excellent grades and very strong USMLE scores didnt match this year. these people were applying for very competitive residencies and i think that the school;'s reputaiton is what hurt them. So maybe yale is worth it if the OP wants to do a SUPER competitive residency. If the OP is smart and ambitious, then the loans wont matter at the end when he gets the best jobs after coming out of Yale Med and Harvard residency. However, i am ignorant about NYU and i dont know how its reputation is among residency directors. Also one thing to note is what types of departments are strong at NYU. If NYU has the strong departments in the competitive residency u want to go into, then atleast u have a good chance of getting it even if u diss yale and go to NYU.

holler

This is speaking from experience.

 

[lalalala]

i used to think that but now im starting to beleive that the rputation does matter. Some people i know with excellent grades and very strong USMLE scores didnt match this year. these people were applying for very competitive residencies and i think that the school;'s reputaiton is what hurt them. So maybe yale is worth it if the OP wants to do a SUPER competitive residency. If the OP is smart and ambitious, then the loans wont matter at the end when he gets the best jobs after coming out of Yale Med and Harvard residency. However, i am ignorant about NYU and i dont know how its reputation is among residency directors. Also one thing to note is what types of departments are strong at NYU. If NYU has the strong departments in the competitive residency u want to go into, then atleast u have a good chance of getting it even if u diss yale and go to NYU.

holler

Omar,

are you talking about competitive residencies AT competitive locations, or competitive residency anywhere?

 

[IlianaSedai]

i used to think that but now im starting to beleive that the rputation does matter.

If the OP is smart and ambitious, then the loans wont matter at the end when he gets the best jobs after coming out of Yale Med and Harvard residency.

Yeah, it's true that reputation makes some difference (all other things being equal).

It is NOT true that everyone who goes to med school at Yale gets a residency at Harvard -- even if they want one. It is also NOT true that everyone wants a residency at Harvard. You won't necessarily sleep easier as a Yale med student, and you also don't really know how your priorities will change over the course of four years.

I know some people who were all gung-ho about getting into "top" residency programs in the beginning -- then realized closer to graduation that other things than "top rank" take priority, such as

1. Where your family/friends/community are
2. Would you be happier at a "top" malignant residency program or a friendlier but not-so-top one?
3. Being able to live in the SAME TOWN as your significant other or spouse
4. Being able to afford living while you're a resident

and so on. Some of you who can't imagine why in the world you'd choose a middle-tier residency over a top-ranked one when they're lowly MS-0's and MS-1's, will probably find yourself considering these same things by the time your fourth year comes around. Yes, every little bit can help you get what you want, but the fact is, do you really want to spend the rest of your life as a slave to numbers and rankings? And even more importantly, are you going to put your rankings above your friends, family, community, happiness, and health? Rankings make some difference toward getting you an interview, sometimes, but there are some things that make an even bigger difference to your health and happiness. Rankings in the long run probably aren't one of those things.

 

[macdown]

It is NOT true that everyone who goes to med school at Yale gets a residency at Harvard -- even if they want one. It is also NOT true that everyone wants a residency at Harvard. You won't necessarily sleep easier as a Yale med student, and you also don't really know how your priorities will change over the course of four years.

Some of you who can't imagine why in the world you'd choose a middle-tier residency over a top-ranked one when they're lowly MS-0's and MS-1's, will probably find yourself considering these same things by the time your fourth year comes around. Yes, every little bit can help you get what you want, but the fact is, do you really want to spend the rest of your life as a slave to numbers and rankings? And even more importantly, are you going to put your rankings above your friends, family, community, happiness, and health? Rankings make some difference toward getting you an interview, sometimes, but there are some things that make an even bigger difference to your health and happiness. Rankings in the long run probably aren't one of those things.

Very true. I couldn't have said it better (I'm not one with words). Right now (meaning before you start school) numbers may mean everything, but once you begin to live the life you begin to realize that they take a back seat to many more important priorities. Plus, I've never been one for all that number stuff, it really doesn't impress me all that much.

 

[orthoman5000]

I'm wondering since when did where you went to medical school and do your residency have anything to do with salary?

The truth of the matter is that the very desirable jobs (location) and prestigious jobs (academic appointments) are not always the highest paying. In fact relative to private practice out in the sticks they are lower paying.

There are tons of doctors here in Arkansas that make LOTS of money and they all went to the state school and more than likely did their residency here as well. It all depends on how many patients you want to take on and how much you are willing to work. My roommate knows lots of guys from his hometown that make one million a year as a neurosurgeon, 600K as an anethsesiologist, even a guy that makes near that in family practice.

If prestige is a concern then by all means go to Yale, but remember prestige and a high salary are not the same thing.

 

[acab]

Thanks for all your advice.

Yes, there are a lot of more important things in life than rankings and prestige. It's very interesting to read about different perspectives from people following more or less the same career path.

 

[prmd4555]

On a similar note, if you are choosing between two schools that are quite comparable in terms of reputation, but you feel like you would be much happier (gut feeling ) at the one that didn't give you any scholarship......does the 50,000$ difference matter.
What do you think : $$ or perception of happiness???