Funding residency interviews

[Chemstudent]

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I'm a rising M2 and all I hear from my upperclassmen peers is to start saving early on for residency interviews. For my M1 year, I took out significantly less than the allocated amount for living expenses because I could live on less. However, I was wondering if it would be smart to take out more federal loans for M2 and M3 year in order to save for residency interviews in the future?

I heard private loans sort of suck in terms of interest rates and repayment, so I don't want to mess with them come M4 year if I can avoid them by taking out more federal loans early on.





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[mvenus929]

It's not a bad idea. Your max cost of attendance also goes down in M4, because you're only enrolled for 9 months again, but you have to spend all this money on residency apps and Step exams. Aim for at least $5K to help cushion the blow, and keep in mind that you will need some extra funds when you move and have to put down your first month's rent, security deposit, etc, before you actually receive your first paycheck.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

It's not a bad idea. Your max cost of attendance also goes down in M4, because you're only enrolled for 9 months again, but you have to spend all this money on residency apps and Step exams. Aim for at least $5K to help cushion the blow, and keep in mind that you will need some extra funds when you move and have to put down your first month's rent, security deposit, etc, before you actually receive your first paycheck.

How much does the entire process cost?

 

[xffan624]

How much does the entire process cost?

Highly dependent on specialty and your regional preferences. If you're making multiple cross country flights it's a entirely different than just applying to all the programs in a region that are within driving distance. Also the application costs money as well. Not as much as medical school, but if you're doing ortho or plastics and applying to every program in the country that's a completely differently ballgame than a family med, internal med, or peds app where you'll probably apply to 20-30 programs max.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Highly dependent on specialty and your regional preferences. If you're making multiple cross country flights it's a entirely different than just applying to all the programs in a region that are within driving distance. Also the application costs money as well. Not as much as medical school, but if you're doing ortho or plastics and applying to every program in the country that's a completely differently ballgame than a family med, internal med, or peds app where you'll probably apply to 20-30 programs max.

Could you give me a range?🙂 like what does it look like on the cheap end vs the super expensive end? ( for a reasonable applicant applying to family med for the lower range , and plastics for the upper range)

 

[waffles4president]

I applied to about 30-35 academic IM programs. Drove to all my interviews. Longest drive was ~12 hrs. Interviewed at like 18 or so. I still spent 2-3k, though most of that was spent during the application process. That's probably on the cheaper end of things.


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[deleted480308]

Could you give me a range?🙂 like what does it look like on the cheap end vs the super expensive end? ( for a reasonable applicant applying to family med for the lower range , and plastics for the upper range)

Aamc put out a paper with students reported interview expenses. Avg with standard deviations etc.

Too many variable to list the numbers off memory but each audition was reported between 1500-2k.

 

[iceman55]

It's not a bad idea. Your max cost of attendance also goes down in M4, because you're only enrolled for 9 months again, but you have to spend all this money on residency apps and Step exams. Aim for at least $5K to help cushion the blow, and keep in mind that you will need some extra funds when you move and have to put down your first month's rent, security deposit, etc, before you actually receive your first paycheck.

Current MS4, not really true but may depend on the school. Here , 4th year starts in May/June and graduation is in May, thats still 12 months.


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[DrfluffyMD]

I've spent 5k interviewing for 13 fellowship institutions.

 

[iceman55]

I'm a rising M2 and all I hear from my upperclassmen peers is to start saving early on for residency interviews. For my M1 year, I took out significantly less than the allocated amount for living expenses because I could live on less. However, I was wondering if it would be smart to take out more federal loans for M2 and M3 year in order to save for residency interviews in the future?

I heard private loans sort of suck in terms of interest rates and repayment, so I don't want to mess with them come M4 year if I can avoid them by taking out more federal loans early on.





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Why do the majority of you rising M2s spend your last summer worrying about **** you don't need to worry about...Damnn. Go have a beer, go to the pool, chilll.

Alright, gotta get back to step 2 studying.


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[mvenus929]

Current MS4, not really true but may depend on the school. Here , 4th year starts in May/June and graduation is in May, thats still 12 months.

My fourth year started in April. But the academic 4th year starts in August, because that's when loans get disbursed. Therefore, you're only in school for 9 months per the government. My school counted 9 months for MS1, 12 months for MS2-3, and 9 months for MS4, which I think, overall, is pretty standard.

 

[iceman55]

My fourth year started in April. But the academic 4th year starts in August, because that's when loans get disbursed. Therefore, you're only in school for 9 months per the government. My school counted 9 months for MS1, 12 months for MS2-3, and 9 months for MS4, which I think, overall, is pretty standard.

Yeah its school dependent. But, that would mean they gave you guys more money for 3rd year, so it evens out. Or some of your classmates were without loan money for a few months until August.


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[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Somebody told me there are dedicated loans you can draw from for the M4 audition/application process. Is this not the case?

 

[mvenus929]

Somebody told me there are dedicated loans you can draw from for the M4 audition/application process. Is this not the case?

You can get private loans to help you if you need to. Or you can just budget well your first three years and save up enough that you don't need to take the money out.

Yeah its school dependent. But, that would mean they gave you guys more money for 3rd year, so it evens out. Or some of your classmates were without loan money for a few months until August.

Except you're having to pay for things through the middle/end of July because that's when you start getting paid for your job. So you have to budget for those extra 2-3 months. That's the point I was making... if you don't realize this and don't prepare by saving beforehand, you'll be without funds before you start residency because you can only get loans (thus funds for living expenses) through May.

This is going to seem out of order, but since you quoted my post twice, I'm addending my post here.

Actually i think the standard is 9 month for ms1-2 because summer in between. Then 12 months ms3-4. 12 months of ms2 is way too long unless you guys were studying for step 1 for like 3 months lol. Either way, its evens out to the same, so do you don't really save any money overall.

I don't know many places that have a summer off between MS2 and MS3. The school with my residency finishes classes in April, then start MS3 in mid-late June. They get the time off to study for Step 1, but it's still considered part of the year, because they are still in school over the summer, and thus should get loans for Aug-Aug. We finished MS2 in December, and started MS3 in February, but our MS2 loan money covered Aug-Aug, thus 12 months. Then we ran right from MS3 to MS4, so we got another Aug-Aug loan for that, then MS4 went through May.

And, again, you have to budge through July on your MS4 loan disbursement. So saving some money from your previous loans to account for that will help make sure you can stretch the money out that far.

 

[iceman55]

My fourth year started in April. But the academic 4th year starts in August, because that's when loans get disbursed. Therefore, you're only in school for 9 months per the government. My school counted 9 months for MS1, 12 months for MS2-3, and 9 months for MS4, which I think, overall, is pretty standard.

Actually i think the standard is 9 month for ms1-2 because summer in between. Then 12 months ms3-4. 12 months of ms2 is way too long unless you guys were studying for step 1 for like 3 months lol. Either way, its evens out to the same, so do you don't really save any money overall.


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[NickNaylor]

If you have decent credit, plan in advance and get some available credit. Most credit cards will offer introductory APRs of 0% for a year which you can use to pay off the debt you accrue. I suppose you could go the private loan route, but I just put everything on a credit card (one attached to an airline rewards program, which got me a couple of free roundtrip flights using miles) and then paid it off once I started residency.

 

[DokterMom]

Could you give me a range?🙂 like what does it look like on the cheap end vs the super expensive end? ( for a reasonable applicant applying to family med for the lower range , and plastics for the upper range)

$2,000 would be a very inexpensive 'regional only' interview season. But it can reach to $10K for a 'moderately strong' candidate in super-competitive fields where you have to basically apply everywhere and attend every interview you're offered, especially if you also apply to a backup specialty. (Could be less if you're a slam-dunk candidate who can be geographically selective or a weaker candidate who receives fewer invitations.)

The point about also needing start-up cash should not be under-estimated. You'll most likely be moving to a new city with minimal furniture and no paycheck for a month. You'll need the basics, first & last month's rent, utility deposits, etc. Many programs also start with unpaid ~ 2-week 'orientations'. It's about the only time you'll have to set up house -- but you can only actually do it if you have the money.

 

[grapefruit17]

If you have decent credit, plan in advance and get some available credit. Most credit cards will offer introductory APRs of 0% for a year which you can use to pay off the debt you accrue. I suppose you could go the private loan route, but I just put everything on a credit card (one attached to an airline rewards program, which got me a couple of free roundtrip flights using miles) and then paid it off once I started residency.

this is so HY. if your credit is good, get chase sapphire card and put all your interview expenses on it and you'll save a large amount of money due to the perks.

also avoid taking unnecessary funds until no earlier than a year before you need them IMO. interest compounds each month if I'm not mistake.

it seems like my loans are growing ridiculously fast..

 

[Chromium Surfer]

$2,000 would be a very inexpensive 'regional only' interview season. But it can reach to $10K for a 'moderately strong' candidate in super-competitive fields where you have to basically apply everywhere and attend every interview you're offered, especially if you also apply to a backup specialty. (Could be less if you're a slam-dunk candidate who can be geographically selective or a weaker candidate who receives fewer invitations.)

The point about also needing start-up cash should not be under-estimated. You'll most likely be moving to a new city with minimal furniture and no paycheck for a month. You'll need the basics, first & last month's rent, utility deposits, etc. Many programs also start with unpaid ~ 2-week 'orientations'. It's about the only time you'll have to set up house -- but only if you have the money. ..

Thanks for the detailed response!🙂 wow that is a good point you made, do you think 3k is enough to get by for a month in an expensive city (just for a conservative estimate)

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Can you apply for credit cards with no income? I have over $20k in credit from cards I acquired before medical school so my credit is good, but I thought you won't get approved for new cards unless you can show an income stream.

 

[grapefruit17]

Can you apply for credit cards with no income? I have over $20k in credit from cards I acquired before medical school so my credit is good, but I thought you won't get approved for new cards unless you can show an income stream.

I was approved for discover without income. I applied as a student and had an acceptable credit hx. Chase sapphire actually denied me tho.

 

[Chemstudent]

this is so HY. if your credit is good, get chase sapphire card and put all your interview expenses on it and you'll save a large amount of money due to the perks.

also avoid taking unnecessary funds until no earlier than a year before you need them IMO. interest compounds each month if I'm not mistake.

it seems like my loans are growing ridiculously fast..

I believe for federal loans, the interest doesn't start compounding until after you graduate. Can anyone confirm this? Obviously they would still collect more interest though over the next 1-2 years if I take out more early on.

The new credit card is not a bad idea though. I think I may try that.


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[xffan624]

Could you give me a range?🙂 like what does it look like on the cheap end vs the super expensive end? ( for a reasonable applicant applying to family med for the lower range , and plastics for the upper range)

Interviewed at 11 pediatrics programs. Drove to all of them (longest drive was 8 hours). Peds covers many of the hotels so I'd estimate total with gas, food, and some of the hotels costing money maybe $1200-1300 . Application cost were around $250. I did one away, but I stayed at family's house so I contributed for groceries and that was it.

Step 2 CS and CK cost about $1800 just for the test itself. I drove to my site so I just paid for the hotel (about $200 for the night).

Even going cheapo like I did, 4th year is still pretty expensive. You can go much higher than that of course if you're flying to places and interviewing at more programs.

 

[DokterMom]

..
Thanks for the detailed response!🙂 wow that is a good point you made, do you think 3k is enough to get by for a month in an expensive city (just for a conservative estimate)..

First & last month's rent will be your biggest expenses and could easily eat up the whole $3,000... But with $3K and a credit card, I'd expect you should be OK in most places.

Can you apply for credit cards with no income? I have over $20k in credit from cards I acquired before medical school so my credit is good, but I thought you won't get approved for new cards unless you can show an income stream.

There are some loans and credit programs geared specifically for physicians and other 'fresh out of professional school' applicants with secure and rosy futures. If you haven't already blown your credit score, odds for applicants with a shiny MD are pretty good for being able to get credit. Just be forewarned that it's really easy to get in trouble if you try to live like a doctor instead of a broke grad student.

 

[backside_attack]

I believe for federal loans, the interest doesn't start compounding until after you graduate. Can anyone confirm this? Obviously they would still collect more interest though over the next 1-2 years if I take out more early on.

The new credit card is not a bad idea though. I think I may try that.


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Nope. That's for subsidized loans, which are only available to undergraduates (and even then, not everyone is offered them - it's need-based). Interest is building as we speak...

I make monthly payments to equal my interest, and since loans are in deferment, the payment goes towards the principle = keeps the interest from accruing (it's still accruing, but paying down the same amount that accrues every month keeps things balanced). That's not a feasible solution for most med students, as I use my spouse's income to manage that.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Chemstudent]

Nope. That's for subsidized loans, which are only available to undergraduates (and even then, not everyone is offered them - it's need-based). Interest is building as we speak...

I make monthly payments to equal my interest, and since loans are in deferment, the payment goes towards the principle = keeps the interest from accruing (it's still accruing, but paying down the same amount that accrues every month keeps things balanced). That's not a feasible solution for most med students, as I use my spouse's income to manage that.

Edited for clarity.

Sorry I worded what I was saying wrong. I meant the interest doesn't capitalize on the principal for federal unsubsidized student loans until you graduate.


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[slowlybutshelly]

I maxed out all my federal and private loans (including residency relocation funds) by the time I was 7 weeks from graduation. Why? Ross placed me in rotations in expensive places. My only hope now is to 'free housing' if I get into a residency. Getting kicked out of a us school and having to go to the carribean wreaked havoc on my finances. I am not sure how to recover. I know some people who manage all their loans, by themselves. I know others whose 'other half takes care of the finances.' Sigh I am not sure what will work for me.


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[DrfluffyMD]

I maxed out all my federal and private loans (including residency relocation funds) by the time I was 7 weeks from graduation. Why? Ross placed me in rotations in expensive places. My only hope now is to 'free housing' if I get into a residency. Getting kicked out of a us school and having to go to the carribean wreaked havoc on my finances. I am not sure how to recover. I know some people who manage all their loans, by themselves. I know others whose 'other half takes care of the finances.' Sigh I am not sure what will work for me.


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Are you repaying your loans? Your loans should be long in repayment by this point.

I am also not aware of any residency that provides free housing.

 

[Fedekz]

How would you qualify for a private loan? It would have to be a signature/personal loan because you couldn't take out a student or educational loan beyond the COA. To get approved for a personal loan you have to be able to show the ability to repay it and your loan disbursements from COA can't legally be used as income for purposes of a loan application. I imagine the only way a bank would approve a personal loan is if you have a cosigner with good credit and a verifiable income.. Am I missing something? Is there another way? That was my understanding of the signature/personal loan requirements.

Also, if it's a residency loan or physician loan - wouldn't they require a signed residency contract with income to submit before disbursing the loan. If you're still applying then you wouldn't have a contract to submit as proof of income and there is a risk you could go unmatched and they'd be left holding the bag.

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[backside_attack]

How would you qualify for a private loan? It would have to be a signature/personal loan because you couldn't take out a student or educational loan beyond the COA. To get approved for a personal loan you have to be able to show the ability to repay it and your loan disbursements from COA can't legally be used as income for purposes of a loan application. I imagine the only way a bank would approve a personal loan is if you have a cosigner with good credit and a verifiable income.. Am I missing something? Is there another way? That was my understanding of the signature/personal loan requirements.

Also, if it's a residency loan or physician loan - wouldn't they require a signed residency contract with income to submit before disbursing the loan. If you're still applying then you wouldn't have a contract to submit as proof of income and there is a risk you could go unmatched and they'd be left holding the bag.

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There are private student loans (Sallie Mae is a big one).

 

[backside_attack]

I maxed out all my federal and private loans (including residency relocation funds) by the time I was 7 weeks from graduation. Why? Ross placed me in rotations in expensive places. My only hope now is to 'free housing' if I get into a residency. Getting kicked out of a us school and having to go to the carribean wreaked havoc on my finances. I am not sure how to recover. I know some people who manage all their loans, by themselves. I know others whose 'other half takes care of the finances.' Sigh I am not sure what will work for me.


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WE KNOW. Please stop posting this story in various iterations on threads of all topics. You literally provide no help to the OP with your anecdote that you personally maxed out your loans because you went to two medical schools - that is NOT what the OP is asking.

 

[mvenus929]

How would you qualify for a private loan? It would have to be a signature/personal loan because you couldn't take out a student or educational loan beyond the COA. To get approved for a personal loan you have to be able to show the ability to repay it and your loan disbursements from COA can't legally be used as income for purposes of a loan application. I imagine the only way a bank would approve a personal loan is if you have a cosigner with good credit and a verifiable income.. Am I missing something? Is there another way? That was my understanding of the signature/personal loan requirements.

Also, if it's a residency loan or physician loan - wouldn't they require a signed residency contract with income to submit before disbursing the loan. If you're still applying then you wouldn't have a contract to submit as proof of income and there is a risk you could go unmatched and they'd be left holding the bag.

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The easiest way would be to shift your finances to the first part of the year and float them until your Dec/Jan disbursement check, then get a professional loan from Discover or similar after match day.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

I maxed out all my federal and private loans (including residency relocation funds) by the time I was 7 weeks from graduation. Why? Ross placed me in rotations in expensive places. My only hope now is to 'free housing' if I get into a residency. Getting kicked out of a us school and having to go to the carribean wreaked havoc on my finances. I am not sure how to recover. I know some people who manage all their loans, by themselves. I know others whose 'other half takes care of the finances.' Sigh I am not sure what will work for me.

Don't worry honey, you're never going to be a resident so this really isn't something you should bother your pretty head about.

 

[deleted480308]

Don't worry honey, you're never going to be a resident so this really isn't something you should bother your pretty head about.

 

[Mad Jack]

It's not a bad idea. Your max cost of attendance also goes down in M4, because you're only enrolled for 9 months again, but you have to spend all this money on residency apps and Step exams. Aim for at least $5K to help cushion the blow, and keep in mind that you will need some extra funds when you move and have to put down your first month's rent, security deposit, etc, before you actually receive your first paycheck.

Our COA factors all of the exams and stuff in.

 

[DBV]

I maxed out all my federal and private loans (including residency relocation funds) by the time I was 7 weeks from graduation. Why? Ross placed me in rotations in expensive places. My only hope now is to 'free housing' if I get into a residency. Getting kicked out of a us school and having to go to the carribean wreaked havoc on my finances. I am not sure how to recover. I know some people who manage all their loans, by themselves. I know others whose 'other half takes care of the finances.' Sigh I am not sure what will work for me.


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Don't worry honey, you're never going to be a resident so this really isn't something you should bother your pretty head about.

List of burn centers in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[slowlybutshelly]

Are you repaying your loans? Your loans should be long in repayment by this point.

I am also not aware of any residency that provides free housing.

My federal loans are consolidated and I have 40 yrs to pay back.
My private loans are also consolidated and I am trying to enter into an income generated repayment plan.
I am paying one back at 10usd/mth from mid 90's.


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[slowlybutshelly]

There are private student loans (Sallie Mae is a big one).

Yes my private loans were Sallie Mae. Cough predatory student loan lending..


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[slowlybutshelly]

How would you qualify for a private loan? It would have to be a signature/personal loan because you couldn't take out a student or educational loan beyond the COA. To get approved for a personal loan you have to be able to show the ability to repay it and your loan disbursements from COA can't legally be used as income for purposes of a loan application. I imagine the only way a bank would approve a personal loan is if you have a cosigner with good credit and a verifiable income.. Am I missing something? Is there another way? That was my understanding of the signature/personal loan requirements.

Also, if it's a residency loan or physician loan - wouldn't they require a signed residency contract with income to submit before disbursing the loan. If you're still applying then you wouldn't have a contract to submit as proof of income and there is a risk you could go unmatched and they'd be left holding the bag.

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I am extremely worried about my large student loan debt and the effect it may have on my residency chances.


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[slowlybutshelly]

Don't worry honey, you're never going to be a resident so this really isn't something you should bother your pretty head about.

'My pretty head'. That's purposefully rude. I would like to ask you to remove your post. My scores are quite high now. My chances are good. If they were not, the door would have been shut. How many of you have ever taken Step1 twice, years apart? My opportunity is my own path.


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[PreMedMissteps]

I believe for federal loans, the interest doesn't start compounding until after you graduate. Can anyone confirm this? Obviously they would still collect more interest though over the next 1-2 years if I take out more early on.

The new credit card is not a bad idea though. I think I may try that.


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Med school loans are not subsidized. They begin accruing interest as soon as you take them out.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

My private loans are also consolidated and I am trying to enter into an income generated repayment plan.

I don't think there are IBR options for private loans.

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I also feel unsafe around you. I would like to ask you to remove Captain Star Trek. My door is still open. I am walking through it. My path is my path. I came to this thread to ask 'what would you do in my situation'? To try to get advice like others get advice. I expect the same respect. This will be my last post in this thread. The most important thing in the world is to be kind and you are not; and others follow your example. sadly

 

[deleted109597]

Don't worry

The crux of your point is well understood. However, there is no need to be inflammatory about it.

 

[Keona]

It depends on your specialty but some pay for hotel rooms and others don't. If going into something competitive then you will want to save up extra for the hotel costs.

 

[Osteoth]

You are talking about an ophthalmologist, not an optometrist right? I was considering ophthalmology too, but I'm pretty sure the compensation in that field (and other surgical specialties) is more than that...

Apparently the job market is tanking for ophtho..

Highly dependent on specialty and your regional preferences. If you're making multiple cross country flights it's a entirely different than just applying to all the programs in a region that are within driving distance. Also the application costs money as well. Not as much as medical school, but if you're doing ortho or plastics and applying to every program in the country that's a completely differently ballgame than a family med, internal med, or peds app where you'll probably apply to 20-30 programs max.

How much is the application process per program?

$2,000 would be a very inexpensive 'regional only' interview season. But it can reach to $10K for a 'moderately strong' candidate in super-competitive fields where you have to basically apply everywhere and attend every interview you're offered, especially if you also apply to a backup specialty. (Could be less if you're a slam-dunk candidate who can be geographically selective or a weaker candidate who receives fewer invitations.)

The point about also needing start-up cash should not be under-estimated. You'll most likely be moving to a new city with minimal furniture and no paycheck for a month. You'll need the basics, first & last month's rent, utility deposits, etc. Many programs also start with unpaid ~ 2-week 'orientations'. It's about the only time you'll have to set up house -- but only if you have the money. ..

So back of the envelope calculation:
$2,000 - STEP2 CS/CK
$3,000 - First/Last/Deposit
$5,000 - Interviews/moving

Assuming applying broadly to a competitive specialty or two specialties.

Can you apply for credit cards with no income? I have over $20k in credit from cards I acquired before medical school so my credit is good, but I thought you won't get approved for new cards unless you can show an income stream.

Yes. Was approved for several but worked before attending medical school so had some credit history.

Interviewed at 11 pediatrics programs. Drove to all of them (longest drive was 8 hours). Peds covers many of the hotels so I'd estimate total with gas, food, and some of the hotels costing money maybe $1200-1300 . Application cost were around $250. I did one away, but I stayed at family's house so I contributed for groceries and that was it.

Step 2 CS and CK cost about $1800 just for the test itself. I drove to my site so I just paid for the hotel (about $200 for the night).

Even going cheapo like I did, 4th year is still pretty expensive. You can go much higher than that of course if you're flying to places and interviewing at more programs.

Peds pays for hotels?! Brb changing specialty...

Don't worry honey, you're never going to be a resident so this really isn't something you should bother your pretty head about.

Jesus. Savage af.

I also feel unsafe around you. I would like to ask you to remove Captain Star Trek. My door is still open. I am walking through it. My path is my path. I came to this thread to ask 'what would you do in my situation'? To try to get advice like others get advice. I expect the same respect. This will be my last post in this thread. The most important thing in the world is to be kind and you are not; and others follow your example. sadly

Wait on the internet?

 

[username456789]

I am extremely worried about my large student loan debt and the effect it may have on my residency chances.


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Your student loans are the last thing you should be worried about keeping you out of a residency.....

 

[mvenus929]

How much is the application process per program?

Peds pays for hotels?! Brb changing specialty....

The application itself varies. I believe you get 10 programs for the initial $115 fee, plus your transcript fees. Then it's something like $20-30 per additional program. Then travel will depend on where you live and how close you are to your destination. I drove to about half my interviews, so gas was relatively cheap. I also clustered my interviews I had to fly to so I wasn't making multiple cross country trips. Then, if the program doesn't pay for housing (or you don't have a hosting program set up through your school), you have to pay the hotel rooms, which vary widely based on the location.

Not every program, but yes. So does family medicine.

 

[DBV]

Taking step 1 twice is never an achievement

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I don't think there are IBR options for private loans.

Mine were Sallie mae. Both federal and private are Sallie mae.


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