Gaming the System

[sumo joe]

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All of us here already know, or are about to find out, that gaining admission to medical school is a long and difficult process that requires a lot of effort and persistence to see it through.

Based on what I believe we have learned about how the system really works, if I were to advise another prospective candidate for medical school I suspect I would candidly tell that person the following:

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices.

2. Apply to your state university colleges, and accept the best offer that maximizes your chances for academic success (reasonable about their grading policies) and minimizes your expenses and student debt (offer the best scholarships and lowest costs to you or enables you to live at home and reduce expenses). If you are an underrepresented minority (African-American, Hispanic, American Indian), be sure to explore all the special opportunities available to you, including combined and early admission programs for college and medical school. Most importantly, remember that if you really are set on medical school you need to carefully plan your strategy to maximize your GPAs and MCAT numbers and to focus on admission strategies.

3. Take liberal arts, not science or math, as a college major unless you are unusually gifted in those areas. Only take the minimum science and advanced math courses required for med school admission. Aim for A's in these courses as only your science and overall GPA will be scrutinized. From what I can tell, med schools really don't consider where you went to school or what you studied or how wonderful you are in other aspects of your life. It all comes down to numbers and the two GPA numbers, along with the MCAT numbers, allow schools to initially cut many applicants from consideration.

4. Apply early to allopathic and osteopathic schools. By December of any given year, many medical school class slots for the upcoming year are already committed.

5. In the case of medical school, less seems to be better than more. Don't confuse the admission committees with complicated stories or special circumstances. Allow them to make an easy, favorable admission decision based on an applicant that presents with the minimal required science and math coursework completed, a high science GPA, an overall high GPA with an upward treading pattern, and competitive MCAT scores. The obligatory recommendations, evaluations, life story and extracurricular activities all seem to be primarily window dressing or, at best, tie breakers when comparing similarly situated applicants. If your critical numbers are right, no need to really concern yourself with all the rest.

6. What I have outlined to you might not be what is publicly expressed as the proper way to go about gaining admission to medical school, but from our family's journey down this road, these observations and opinions really seem to ring true. While I do not feel this is the ideal way to approach your school experience and your life, it does seem to me to be the best way to guarantee your easy admission into medical school and to save you a considerable amount of emotional distress and money.


This is the knowledge that I have gained in going through the process myself. I hope that you can find it useful to you.

 

[scgroat]

If you have the capacity to do well on the MCAT, then

1) Go to the easiest school possible and max out your GPA. Even take an extra year if you like in order to space out your more difficult classes. If your GPA is high enough, most schools won't care that you took an extra year.
2) Study your butt off for the MCAT and get a score that validates your high GPA.

If the MCAT is not so palatable for you, then

1) Go to the best school you can get into and do as well as you possibly can. Hopefully the school's reputation and your good grades will overcome a lower MCAT. You'll still likely need high 20s to have a shot at allo.

Traditional thinking tells us to go to a prestigious school with a history of getting students into med school. What most of us fail to realize is that this may actually be a harder path when you consider the overwhelming effort necessary to maintain a decent GPA. Now, admittedly, the easiest path still requires a high MCAT. However, this only requires a few months of hell and not 4 years.

 

[Dr JPH]

A for effort
B- for content

 

[QuakerPreMed]

2. Apply to your state university colleges, and accept the best offer that maximizes your chances for academic success (reasonable about their grading policies) and minimizes your expenses and student debt (offer the best scholarships and lowest costs to you or enables you to live at home and reduce expenses).

Yes, because all my fellow interviewees at HMS and Penn were from Texas State University and University of Utah.

Wait, they were all from Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Amherst, and MIT. Well, crap!

This might work if you're aiming for a tier-2 public allo school, but your strategy seriously minimizes all chances at top-25 schools.

 

[GreenShirt]

In retrospect, I would have been better off going to may state school than the most prestigious school I could get into. My grades would have been better and I would have had a lot less debt.

If you just want to go to a decent med school, then the OP's advice is the way to go. However, if you're gunning for a top 10 med school, then you probably will have to go to the prestigious UG, take a lot of science and get the straight A's.

 

[HumbleMD]

I suppose this formula will get you into a medical school, but some people do care about where. A few points I'd like to chime in on. First, coasting through High school for a good GPA may sound like a wonderful idea, but schools like to see that you challenge yourself. I'm reminded of an MIT FAQ for high schoolers:
Q: Should I take more difficult classes and receive B's, or easier class and receive A's?
A: Most competetive applicants take difficult coursework and receive A's.

This holds true for med schools as well, as they do look at your coursework and how demanding it was. Many schools even have regional specialists who are familiar with the ins and outs of your institution.

Taking liberal arts over science may work, if your forte is indeed in the liberal arts over the sciences. You'll have to excel in whatever department your major resides in. I also get frustrated when people assume that some majors are easier than others - it completely depends on the person. I for instance, transferred out of Spanish and into biochemistry because that's where I was getting better grades. Also, majoring in the liberal arts doesn't normally lend itself to research work which many schools like to see.

Basically, I'm quite suspect any time someone comes out with a magic "formula" for getting into medical school. It's a very individualistic process and many people take many diferent roads to the same succesful destination.
I personally think the "secret" to a succesfull application is no secret at all:
Excel in you program, doing what you love, and doing it well. Strive for a high GPA, study hard for the MCAT and achieve a good score, then apply broadly and early. No secrets, just common sense.

 

[notdeadyet]

A for effort
B- for content

B-? Is there a curve?

sumo joe- I'll write a response to your advice here. I can see it's well-intentioned, but it worries me. In fact, with the exception of your recommendation to apply early, I think I disagree with almost all your points.

Your advice is basically "how to be mediocre" and medical school is so competitive that trying to be average is a very dangerous strategy.

I know lots of folks on SDN with fine GPAs and MCAT scores who are not admitted to medical school. I don't know any folks who were not admitted because they stood out from the pack in a positive way.

 

[notdeadyet]

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices.

False. If you coast through with a basic-level in high school, you'll be slamming shut many opportunities for acceptance to decent universities. In California, very few folks get in to the UC system unless they've taken AP classes.

By the way, if you haven't taken challenging coursework through high school, you're going to get spanked by college coursework.

2. Apply to your state university colleges, and accept the best offer that maximizes your chances for academic success (reasonable about their grading policies) and minimizes your expenses and student debt (offer the best scholarships and lowest costs to you or enables you to live at home and reduce expenses).

False. This essentially means apply to the least academically challenging (and therefore probably least respected) school possible. School name doesn't kick open/slam shut med school doors, but I wouldn't intentionally go to an easier school. Mind you, I don't think I'd necessarily rush to attend a school that gives their A's like their kidneys.

3. Take liberal arts, not science or math, as a college major unless you are unusually gifted in those areas.

False. Study what you have a passion for. People usually perform best academically in stuff that interests them. Also, liberal art classes are not necessarily easy A's.

Only take the minimum science and advanced math courses required for med school admission.

False. I would suggest taking beyond the minimum. It looks better on your medical school application and can only help you on your MCAT.

From what I can tell, med schools really don't consider where you went to school or what you studied or how wonderful you are in other aspects of your life.

False. Folks are able to get in to some great schools with lower than average stats if they look great in other aspects. A high GPA and MCAT are your best weapon, but unless they're inhumanly stellar, med schools want to see an actual person behind the numbers.

By December of any given year, many medical school class slots for the upcoming year are already committed.

False. Maybe there are some med schools who are full by January 1, but they are in a very small minority.

In the case of medical school, less seems to be better than more. Don't confuse the admission committees with complicated stories or special circumstances.

False. Interesting backgrounds are great in medical school applications. Looking just like every other applicant will reduce your chances considerably.

Again, the "dare to be average" strategy is much more likely to fail than work...

 

[ssquared]

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices.

That is so wrong. If a high schooler chooses to not take the APs available to them, they will not be seen favorably by colleges. Taking as many APs as possible and doing well in them is the key. It is rare that a student will be admitted to a top school if they didn't challenge themselves in high school. In reality, taking the hardest classes, doing well in them, and specializing in something (ie something the colleges want-an athlete, musician, etc) is the ticket to a good school.

However, high school is water WAY over the dam for most of us on this forum.

 

[scgroat]

It depends where you live. If you're in Texas, just finish in the top 10% of your class. If that's already out of the question, just spend a few semesters at CC, get As, and transfer to UT. Also, we all must realize that the advice given on this thread is somewhat tongue and cheek. I think we all know that there is value in pushing oneself to the limit and not taking the easy way out.

 

[GreenShirt]

I think this advice is more geared towards High school students who think they have to go to a top 10 UG or their life is over, so they take 20 AP classes. The truth is that you can go to any top 50 college and have a shot at a decent med school if you do well, without driving yourself into the ground by overloading on everything. Yes, if you aim for a third tier UG nobody's heard of, and get the bare bones stats, then med school might be more of a long shot.

 

[scgroat]

true

 

[ryandote]

Yes, because all my fellow interviewees at HMS and Penn were from Texas State University and University of Utah.

Wait, they were all from Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Amherst, and MIT. Well, crap!

This might work if you're aiming for a tier-2 public allo school, but your strategy seriously minimizes all chances at top-25 schools.

Woh, woh, woh, hey! University of Utah is a fine institution.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Woh, woh, woh, hey! University of Utah is a fine institution.

Good point, shouldn't have lumped it in with TSU. OK, so... UTexas or University of Utah. Fine public institutions but less snobbery.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

OP, am I misreading you or is there a lot of cynicism in this post? It sounds like you (maybe?) tried to do everything right but still got kind of screwed in the admissions process by other applicants who may have more closely followed this 'formula'. If that's the case, that totally sucks, and I am sorry to hear it. You are right that there are more than a few people in med school who 'gamed the system' to get in, and, unsurprisingly, they're trying to game their way through med school. To say they are intensely annoying is an understatement.

I agree with you that numbers/stats have a LOT to do with admissions, but not to the extent you maintain in your post. They are more something which can keep you out of med school (or at least make it a real uphill battle to even get an interview) rather than guarantee your admission. There are plenty of folks on these boards with great numbers who didn't get in for various reasons, so that can't be the whole story.

 

[jochi1543]

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices..

I beg to differ. I wouldn't have gotten into my 2 "reach" colleges without the APs on my transcript. I also didn't have a hard time getting good grades on my APs.

Moreover, these AP credits allowed me to take one course fewer both semesters of my senior year in college, giving me more time to focus on my thesis and on simply enjoying the last months of my undergrad life, while some other folks were freaking out with a full courseload of senior-level classes.

 

[postbacker]

OP, am I misreading you or is there a lot of cynicism in this post? It sounds like you (maybe?) tried to do everything right but still got kind of screwed in the admissions process by other applicants who may have more closely followed this 'formula'. If that's the case, that totally sucks, and I am sorry to hear it. You are right that there are more than a few people in med school who 'gamed the system' to get in, and, unsurprisingly, they're trying to game their way through med school. To say they are intensely annoying is an understatement.

I agree with you that numbers/stats have a LOT to do with admissions, but not to the extent you maintain in your post. They are more something which can keep you out of med school (or at least make it a real uphill battle to even get an interview) rather than guarantee your admission. There are plenty of folks on these boards with great numbers who didn't get in for various reasons, so that can't be the whole story.

I wonder what is going on with the people who have it all on paper and make it to the interview round but come up empty handed?

As for the OP - more wrong than right in your post - there is nothing to "game" in med school admissions. It is really pretty simple: whatever your major and wherever you do it (CC, state univ, Ivy), simply make As. My personal philosophy: Make 2 As for every B, and no Cs...simple, but based on the folks on SDN scraping and clawing to get into med school, evidently not very easy to do...but if you do it, you are in good shape GPA-wise...

The number of people on these boards with "I have a 3.1 GPA - do I have a chance?" blows my mind - yes, some of them will make it with post bacs and SMPs, but not very many will succeed - I would like to see the GPA distribution of all 40k applicants to med school - we know that the mean matriculant GPA is around 3.6 (right?), but I would like to see the distribution of those GPAs, too, overlaid on the applicant pool GPA bell curve. Because I just don't think the folks with the sub 3.3 GPAs realize how low their chances are, all else being equal...

 

[foofish]

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices.

Ummm...actually, not taking the most difficult classes your school has to offer is probably the best way to limit your prospects for college choices. At least for my undergrad--which I do admissions interviews for--whether or not a student challenged themselves and took difficult classes is one of the first things we're supposed to consider in an application. Yes, bombing a difficult class certainly doesn't help, but if you can't pass AP Bio, getting into med school probably isn't even on the horizon.

 

[BloodySurgeon]

All of us here already know, or are about to find out, that gaining admission to medical school is a long and difficult process that requires a lot of effort and persistence to see it through.

Based on what I believe we have learned about how the system really works, if I were to advise another prospective candidate for medical school I suspect I would candidly tell that person the following:

1. Do well academically in high school obtaining a very high GPA. Do not take AP classes or any advanced or unusually difficult courses. They are not necessary for success in college and they can significantly hurt your overall high school GPA and limit your prospects for college choices.

2. Apply to your state university colleges, and accept the best offer that maximizes your chances for academic success (reasonable about their grading policies) and minimizes your expenses and student debt (offer the best scholarships and lowest costs to you or enables you to live at home and reduce expenses). If you are an underrepresented minority (African-American, Hispanic, American Indian), be sure to explore all the special opportunities available to you, including combined and early admission programs for college and medical school. Most importantly, remember that if you really are set on medical school you need to carefully plan your strategy to maximize your GPAs and MCAT numbers and to focus on admission strategies.

3. Take liberal arts, not science or math, as a college major unless you are unusually gifted in those areas. Only take the minimum science and advanced math courses required for med school admission. Aim for A's in these courses as only your science and overall GPA will be scrutinized. From what I can tell, med schools really don't consider where you went to school or what you studied or how wonderful you are in other aspects of your life. It all comes down to numbers and the two GPA numbers, along with the MCAT numbers, allow schools to initially cut many applicants from consideration.

4. Apply early to allopathic and osteopathic schools. By December of any given year, many medical school class slots for the upcoming year are already committed.

5. In the case of medical school, less seems to be better than more. Don't confuse the admission committees with complicated stories or special circumstances. Allow them to make an easy, favorable admission decision based on an applicant that presents with the minimal required science and math coursework completed, a high science GPA, an overall high GPA with an upward treading pattern, and competitive MCAT scores. The obligatory recommendations, evaluations, life story and extracurricular activities all seem to be primarily window dressing or, at best, tie breakers when comparing similarly situated applicants. If your critical numbers are right, no need to really concern yourself with all the rest.

6. What I have outlined to you might not be what is publicly expressed as the proper way to go about gaining admission to medical school, but from our family's journey down this road, these observations and opinions really seem to ring true. While I do not feel this is the ideal way to approach your school experience and your life, it does seem to me to be the best way to guarantee your easy admission into medical school and to save you a considerable amount of emotional distress and money.


This is the knowledge that I have gained in going through the process myself. I hope that you can find it useful to you.

I DON'T LIKE YOU.......